Car accident, road with no grip

Ded_Zebra · 02-03-2016 9:44pm

Any chance you can tell us what brand the tyres were?

In my experience ABS will be active from a very low speed but even if it's not a car without ABS will stop very quickly from 10mph.

2 summers ago I unfortunately rear ended someone, only very gently. when I was braking before I hit them I was swinging out of the steering wheel trying to press the brake harder yet it still felt like the car was hardly breaking at all. Nothing wrong with the car, the tyres and the road was dry, It is just because you want it to stop in time so badly it feels like nothing is happening.

raher1 · 03-03-2016 9:14pm

the tyres are call nordexx, i got them new in the garage September

gctest50 · 03-03-2016 9:26pm

very unscientific but anyway :

not good in the wet and ABS can't get grip that isn't there

http://www.mytyres.co.uk/cgi-bin/rtest.pl?rt_rubrik=pkw_sommerreifen&rt_profil=103260101&language=EN&dsco=110&pg=2

freinage avec abs et malgré sa a failli atterrir plusieurs fois dans des rond point ou rentré en collision avec une autre voiture (vitesse entre 30 et 80 km/h)

The Nordex Comus is most worthless tyres I ever driven. They are rock hard. I got them when I bought a used car that I use for a daily commuter, 150 km per day. In the wet you can provoke tyre squeels by approaching a round about in 30 km/h (20 mph).

The only positive I can say about them is that they hardly show any ware. And that my nephews belive I have american cop car tyres, because of the squeel.

mullingar · 03-03-2016 9:35pm

Nordexx?

O dear, a terrible E rating in wet grip, yet another example of the need to buy decent rubber and not cheap crap

http://www.nordjysk-daekcentral.com/Nordexx_2

raher1 · 03-03-2016 10:00pm

they cost 50e to 60e

Noccy_Mondy · 03-03-2016 10:01pm

raher1 wrote: »

they cost 50e to 60e

What size rim?

raher1 · 03-03-2016 10:03pm

15 rim

codghost89 · 03-03-2016 10:05pm

you pay cheap, you get cheap, its not really worth it in the long run. You should invest in better tyres.

coolbeans · 03-03-2016 10:05pm

raher1 wrote: »

they cost 50e to 60e

You get what you pay for.

raher1 · 03-03-2016 10:08pm

my tyre guy said they were the best, i m not a tyre expert

Noccy_Mondy · 03-03-2016 10:08pm

raher1 wrote: »

15 rim

Just putting it in perspective, I pay around 100 per tyre for 16". It's one area that I won't scrimp on. Paying that bit extra for decent quality tyres is well worth it.

raher1 · 03-03-2016 10:10pm

Noccy_Mondy wrote: »

Just putting it in perspective, I pay around 100 per tyre for 16". It's one area that I won't scrimp on. Paying that bit extra for decent quality tyres is well worth it.

the tyres were recommended to me, i am not a tyre expert

Stheno · 03-03-2016 10:11pm

raher1 wrote: »

the tyres were recommended to me, i am not a tyre expert

It wouldn't take a whole lot of effort to learn a little

Noccy_Mondy · 03-03-2016 10:11pm

raher1 wrote: »

my tyre guy said they were the best, i m not a tyre expert

They'll just promote what's cheapest. That's what most people want. Try and promote an expensive tyre and the average joe will think they're being ripped off and leave. Unless you go in and specifically ask for a premium tyre, you will get told everything to promote the cheaper tyre, "I have them on my car" "just as good as the premiums".

Henry Ford III · 03-03-2016 10:13pm

raher1 wrote: »

my tyre guy said they were the best, i m not a tyre expert

He should be your ex tyre guy.

I'm no tyre expert either but it's pretty obvious that the brand you've mentioned would be cheap and nasty.

ted1 · 03-03-2016 10:16pm

Perhaps you should do Dan advanced driving course, pushing the brakes as hard as you can isn't always the best response , sometimes it's best to pump them

Atlantic Dawn · 03-03-2016 10:17pm

raher1 wrote: »

my tyre guy said they were the best, i m not a tyre expert

Perhaps they are going in to next years F1 season as official tyre supplier in place of known brands like Goodyear, Bridgestone etc. From experience if you have not heard of the tyre before you don't want to be buying them.

raher1 · 03-03-2016 10:22pm

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Perhaps they are going in to next years F1 season as official tyre supplier in place of known brands like Goodyear, Bridgestone etc. From experience if you have not heard of the tyre before you don't want to be buying them.

i respected your mans opinion as he has years of experience, looks like he has dropped hes standards. sad to read he sold me crap tyres. moving to another guy even if it costs me a bit more.

Atlantic Dawn · 03-03-2016 10:28pm

raher1 wrote: »

i respected your mans opinion as he has years of experience, looks like he has dropped hes standards. sad to read he sold me crap tyres. moving to another guy even if it costs me a bit more.

I think they are on higher margins with the cheaper brands, family members have gone to tyre sellers and had the same experience as you.

power pants · 03-03-2016 10:31pm

Alun wrote: »

What make were your brand new tyres? Were they by any chance recommended to you by the tyre shop as "what all the taxi drivers use" so they must be good? If so they were probably cheap Chinese tyres commonly known as "ditchfinders" which magically lose all semblance of grip as soon as one drop of water hits the road.

Apologies if not the case, but it crops up a lot on the Motors forum these days.

what a ridiculous post.

AngryHippie · 03-03-2016 10:32pm

If you are going to blame the road, you'll probably need to have a read of this

I'd also have a read of this

I don't go for the cheap option on tires myself, I've found it to be a very false economy, I've had a few vehicles through work that have put cheap sh1tty tires on, and they are lethal after even a small spray of rain.

Braking distance in the wet is definitely something people underestimate all of the time. I've had the ABS kick in a few times where people have pulled into my headway and then put the brakes on hard, usually at lower speeds (50 and 60kmh zones) luckily, otherwise there would have been a prang for sure.

It's a pain in the ar$e that so many motorists look at the gap between you and the car in front, and think "I can fit in there" rather than it occuring to them that that space is my reaction and braking time if the car in front decides to slam on. I wish I had something more obvious than my finger and a horn to let them know what I think of their "judgement".

power pants · 03-03-2016 10:32pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I suspect that those "ditchfinders" also have difficulty with the perfectly smooth sub-surface of unfinished roads as well as they rely on the rough stone in the road for grip.

what are you talking about?

R.O.R · 03-03-2016 10:41pm

power pants wrote: »

what are you talking about?

Give it a rest troll pants.

Your posts about budget tyres are just to get a reaction and everyone has had enough at this stage.

Never heard of Nordexx tyres and I've heard of most at this stage, and refused to fit a huge amount of unknown brands to our cars due to safety concerns having experienced a good few sub par, cheap tyres.

power pants · 03-03-2016 10:43pm

Because someone has a differing opinion to you and some others on here, I must be trolling?

how very narrow minded and silly

It seems that op's driving was at fault and the tyres were irrelevant.

SBPhoto · 03-03-2016 10:44pm

Headline should have read, "Car Accident, Tyres with no Grip" instead of Road

raher1 · 03-03-2016 10:45pm

power pants wrote: »

Because someone has a differing opinion to you and some others on here, I must be trolling?

how very narrow minded and silly

It seems that op's driving was at fault and the tyres were irrelevant.

i dont think so. the car should stop

mullingar · 03-03-2016 10:51pm

raher1 wrote: »

my tyre guy said they were the best, i m not a tyre expert

They sure we're the best, the best profit margin for the fitter.

bear1 · 03-03-2016 10:53pm

power pants wrote: »

Because someone has a differing opinion to you and some others on here, I must be trolling?

how very narrow minded and silly

It seems that op's driving was at fault and the tyres were irrelevant.

You do realise that tyres play a huge part in stopping right?

gctest50 · 03-03-2016 11:15pm

raher1 wrote: »

i dont think so. the car should stop

It did

Scottie99 · 03-03-2016 11:26pm

cjpm wrote: »

That court case was about a school bus that crashed in Meath on a section of road that was being fixed up IIRC

Regarding that case, it was found that the abs had been disconnected, nothing to do with the road as far as I know

deathtocaptcha · 04-03-2016 12:09am

I love how everyone is claiming there are certain tyres with 'no grip'. Let's put this myth to bed.

The reality is all tyres sold today must have an e-mark on them which states the tyre meets minimum EU standards in relation to speed rating, treat depth etc...

Give that most cars on our road are either new or go through the NCT every 1/2 years, it's pretty unlikely you'll find tyres with 'no grip'.

If you're driving in a fashion where you regularly 'need' grip to ensure your safety (i.e. speeding around corners, not leaving safe distances to car in front etc...), you need to question your ability as a driver before you start blaming the car or it's tyres...

gctest50 · 04-03-2016 12:19am

deathtocaptcha wrote: »

I love how everyone is claiming there are certain tyres with 'no grip'. Let's put this myth to bed.

The reality is all tyres sold today must have an e-mark on them which states the tyre meets minimum EU standards in relation to speed rating, treat depth etc...

Give that most cars on our road are either new or go through the NCT every 1/2 years, it's pretty unlikely you'll find tyres with 'no grip'.

If you're driving in a fashion where you regularly 'need' grip to ensure your safety (i.e. speeding around corners, not leaving safe distances to car in front etc...), you need to question your ability as a driver before you start blaming the car or it's tyres...

and you "put this myth to bed" by just ranting on. Lovely

There are differences in tyres - otherwise they'd all be the same

The labels measure wet grip using a ranking system that ranges from

( best performance ) A
> G ( worst performance )

Vehicles with tyres from Class A stop in the shortest distance from 50mph,

whilst tyres from Class B take an additional 3-6 metres.

This trend continues for the subsequent values and results in an increase in braking distance of over 18 metres from a vehicle in Class A to Class F.

http://www.rsa.ie/en/RSA/Your-Vehicle/About-your-Vehicle/Example-of-non-Dup/Your-Vehicles-Tyres-/Choosing-a-Tyre/

Ded_Zebra · 04-03-2016 1:30am

deathtocaptcha wrote: »

I love how everyone is claiming there are certain tyres with 'no grip'. Let's put this myth to bed.

The reality is all tyres sold today must have an e-mark on them which states the tyre meets minimum EU standards in relation to speed rating, treat depth etc...

Give that most cars on our road are either new or go through the NCT every 1/2 years, it's pretty unlikely you'll find tyres with 'no grip'.

If you're driving in a fashion where you regularly 'need' grip to ensure your safety (i.e. speeding around corners, not leaving safe distances to car in front etc...), you need to question your ability as a driver before you start blaming the car or it's tyres...

As someone who works in the area of approval of motor vehicle and parts for sale in Europe (including tyres) I can tell you that there is a huge range in performance of tyres that meet the requirements of regulation 30 (passenger cars) and 54 (commercial vehicles). The "cheap" manufacturers view the limits of those regulations as their "target for performance" and are just trying to make tyres as cheaply as possible that they can get e-marked and flog. The premium manufacturers do their best to develop tyres with the best grip achievable (yet for obvious reasons still within a particular budget). The limits allowed in those regulations are quite antiquated compared to what current tyre technology can actually achieve so yes, there is a huge difference in stopping performance between "good" tyres and "bad" tyres.

cup of tea · 04-03-2016 4:04am

There could be a chance (an outside chance at that) of the council being responsible and/or contractor if there was poor repair of the road which caused the accident. They wouldn't be usually liable for ordinary damage caused by wear and tear potholes etc.Similarly there is a possible angle for a claim where poor workmanship causes excess water to gather on a section of road which causes thick ice to form. An engineer would need to be engaged to perform a skid resistance test I'd imagine, take measurements etc. Check out mis/mal/non
feasance.

Also.....In Lewis v Cork County Council, Murphy J. held that “where a local authority engages in repairs….those repairs must be effective…..but to conduct or carry out a repair which is temporary and then not to follow up that repair to ensure that the danger did not re-emerge, must be taken as negligence by a local authority”

These resistance tests can be done on floors and footpaths id be surprised if it cant be done for roads. At the very least the material could be examined from sight. The op isnt clear if it was a repair job.
Obviously your tyres would need to be examined too. If you genuinely believe the road caused this accident you should report the incident to the Council.
Actually now that I think about it I've actually come across something broadly similar to the op.

*not to be taken as legal advice

vibe666 · 04-03-2016 6:51am

don't forget too, that the specific tyre compound will have a huge affect on braking performance depending on the time of year. the same tyres that are great in summer, can be atrocious in colder conditions in the winter, even if there is no snow/rain/ice on the road.

the first car i bought in ireland (a knackered old fiesta) had terrible tyres on it that almost got me killed the first time i drove it in the rain. to tell the truth, i'd never given it much thought until then, it was a half decent car (for me, at the time), it had tread on the tyres and it had recently passed it's NCT with those tyres on it so i assumed it was all good.

however, one cold december day, driving slowly up a hill with a slight bend in it (behind a panel van and two other cars), all driving well within the speed limit, the back end (bearing in mind it was a front wheel drive car) just slid out on me and left me facing the other way on the wrong side of the road on a blind bend. if someone had been coming the other way, i could have been in a pretty severe accident.

that was the day i discovered that there is such a thing as (very) crappy asian tyres that should never be used on a car. since then i've always paid for decent tyres, as they are the thing that connects you to the road and you don't want that to be something that lets you down.

vibe666 · 04-03-2016 6:51am

don't forget too, that the specific tyre compound will have a huge affect on braking performance depending on the time of year. the same tyres that are great in summer, can be atrocious in colder conditions in the winter, even if there is no snow/rain/ice on the road.

the first car i bought in ireland (a knackered old fiesta) had terrible tyres on it that almost got me killed the first time i drove it in the rain. to tell the truth, i'd never given it much thought until then, it was a half decent car (for me, at the time), it had tread on the tyres and it had recently passed it's NCT with those tyres on it so i assumed it was all good.

however, one cold december day, driving slowly up a hill with a slight bend in it (behind a panel van and two other cars), all driving well within the speed limit, the back end (bearing in mind it was a front wheel drive car) just slid out on me and left me facing the other way on the wrong side of the road on a blind bend. if someone had been coming the other way, i could have been in a pretty severe accident.

that was the day i discovered that there is such a thing as (very) crappy asian tyres that should never be used on a car. since then i've always paid for decent tyres, as they are the thing that connects you to the road and you don't want that to be something that lets you down.

Special Circumstances · 04-03-2016 7:05am

I'd love to do a proper survey of the "all tyres for sale in EU are perfectly adequate on damp roads" types. I have a sneaking suspicion that while believing that, they would never accept that a dacia sandero is just as good as a golf or a 1series. Or that a sonata is just the same as 5 series.

power pants · 04-03-2016 7:23am

a poor tradesman blames his tools

op should have been taking more care with his driving and the crash would not have happened

if it were his tyres, sue the brand and take them out of circulation but thats never going to happen as its nothing got to do with the tyres

Special Circumstances · 04-03-2016 8:37am

power pants wrote: »

a poor tradesman blames his tools

All credit to Colin mccrae for winning all those rallies in a micra, wha?

Traction is sooooo overrated ha?

bear1 · 04-03-2016 8:44am

power pants wrote: »

a poor tradesman blames his tools

op should have been taking more care with his driving and the crash would not have happened

if it were his tyres, sue the brand and take them out of circulation but thats never going to happen as its nothing got to do with the tyres

Ara jaysus.
So you're saying any crash where you are not able to stop automatically means that the driver is at fault?

Special Circumstances · 04-03-2016 8:48am

Ladies and Gentlemen!
Welcome to Powerpants monthly "cheap no name tyres are just as good as those from major manufacturers, and chinese hoverboards are the pinnacle of electronic engineering and quality control" thread.

invicta · 04-03-2016 8:49am

bear1 wrote: »

Ara jaysus.
So you're saying any crash where you are not able to stop automatically means that the driver is at fault?

Think about that!!

100% YES!!

Cars or any moving object,cannot stop any faster than normal friction or gravity will allow!!
other than the actions of a third party,which,in the case of a car- would be the driver!
Or else another object.

Bruthal · 04-03-2016 9:06am

bear1 wrote: »

Ara jaysus.
So you're saying any crash where you are not able to stop automatically means that the driver is at fault?

Well, from a standing start, to run into the car in front at this 10mph probably involves bad driving.

Bruthal · 04-03-2016 9:12am

invicta wrote: »

Think about that!!

100% YES!!

Cars or any moving object,cannot stop any faster than normal friction or gravity will allow!!
other than the actions of a third party,which,in the case of a car- would be the driver!
Or else another object.

The friction is a huge variable. And the driver can have some input into how good that is, by having good tyres. A highly skilled driver won't stop in a shorter distance on bald tyres on a wet road than the average driver with good tyres.

But the OP sounds like some lack of attention was involved.

kirving · 04-03-2016 11:18am

power pants wrote: »

a poor tradesman blames his tools

op should have been taking more care with his driving and the crash would not have happened

if it were his tyres, sue the brand and take them out of circulation but thats never going to happen as its nothing got to do with the tyres

OK, say there's a very careful driver, who always follows the speed limit and never pushes their car anywhere near the limit.

No need for them to "waste" money on decent tyres, right?
Once it's E marked, that's good enough, right?

Then one day, your child accidentally runs out in front of the car because they want to get home and in out of the pouring rain.

What tyres would you prefer on the car at this point? Something that barely meets the minimum legal limit, or something premium? Honest answers now.

I appreciate that this is a Continental produced video, but at the point the car is stopped on the premium tyres, the other car is still moving at 31mph.

https://youtu.be/e2c9Ry0JfMw?t=3m04s

80% chance your child will live, that's good enough, right?

power pants · 04-03-2016 11:22am

I appreciate that this is a Continental produced video

you clearly dont though. Its just marketing for certain people to lap up

If you are going to hit a child , unfortunately that is what will happen no matter what tyres you have on the car

Expensive tyres are not to be confused with magic tyres

quadrifoglio verde · 04-03-2016 11:40am

power pants wrote: »

a poor tradesman blames his tools

op should have been taking more care with his driving and the crash would not have happened

if it were his tyres, sue the brand and take them out of circulation but thats never going to happen as its nothing got to do with the tyres

A good tradesman doesn't buy **** tools though

Cuddlesworth · 04-03-2016 11:40am

power pants wrote: »

I appreciate that this is a Continental produced video

you clearly dont though. Its just marketing for certain people to lap up

If you are going to hit a child , unfortunately that is what will happen no matter what tyres you have on the car

Expensive tyres are not to be confused with magic tyres

Find some evidence that a A rated wet tyre and a G rated wet tyre have the same braking distance in wet conditions. Then feel free to forward it on to those easy to blame marketing people.

kerten · 04-03-2016 11:41am

power pants wrote: »

I appreciate that this is a Continental produced video

you clearly dont though. Its just marketing for certain people to lap up

If you are going to hit a child , unfortunately that is what will happen no matter what tyres you have on the car

Expensive tyres are not to be confused with magic tyres

Do you mean that there is no difference in grip between cheapest E marked tyre and Premium brand tyre ?

or

Do you mean that it is perfectly fine to buy cheapest E marked tyre on the market if you are driving according to its grip level.

If it is the latter, please tell us what are the differences in driving practices you follow when there is a cheap tyre on the car vs an expensive tyre.

- Do you drive at different speeds on a wet motorway ?
- Do you drive at different speeds in wet back roads ?
- Do you approach blind bends at different speeds ?
- What is the difference in distance you keep with cars in front of you in both cases ?

Bruthal · 04-03-2016 11:47am

Kevin Irving wrote: »

80% chance your child will live, that's good enough, right?

Perhaps, If the child happens to run out at the position the better tyres can stop.

If the child randomly runs out onto a road, there is a high chance they will be hit. the outcome depends on endless factors.

Either way, there is no doubt better tyres are better to have on a car.

Car accident, road with no grip

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