Car accident, road with no grip

anothernight

Markcheese wrote: »

Nope - but a badly maintained road full of potholes is the drivers problem... apparently a badly repaired pothole causing an accident can be the fault of the repairer ...

It was more of a tongue-in-cheek comment. Should've used a smiley I guess!

swarlb

Instead of asking the opinion of people on here, why not simply sue the council (or whoever)... you'll get your an answer soon enough then. let us know how you get on, it might be of some help to people in the future who..
1. Crash into the back of other cars...
2. Crash cars in general...

raher1

Wesser wrote: »

The council are not responsible that you failed to stop. You failed to stop, you were going too fast to stop. If you sue the council they have to pay you.... Tax payers money which would otherwise fund public services. It's disgraceful that people think they can sue someone else Because they failed to stop.

I actually just moved off, going around ten miles a hour. I braked and no grip, abs couldn't find traction

Cuddlesworth

raher1 wrote: »

I actually just moved off, going around ten miles a hour. I braked and no grip, abs couldn't find traction

Nice timeline on a response. What tyres do you have, make and model?

Suing the council is unlikely. Any number of factors could have lead to your crashing including morning frost, a diesel or oil spill, faulty tyres or ABS and driver error. You would realistically need to prove that the council was aware of a issue with the road surface and chose to do nothing about it.

ironclaw

I wouldn't be so quick to jump on the OP. There are three sections of road that I'm pretty suspicious of. First and foremost is the N11 outside RTE. Its special tarmac designed to be low noise. As a result, it has very little grip to keep rumble down even less in the wet. Next up, the M11 at the M50 interchange. That road holds water like the Shannon in flood and its never been topped. The surface isn't finished and never will be. Its extremely smooth and I've seen many a car skid into the back of another at rush hour. Lastly, the N11 Bray South turn off was recently surfaced and its like glass when wet. I thought it was suspiciously smooth so one night when it was damp and totally clear I gave it a hard brake on the off ramp and a sharp turn in at the apex. Best of luck holding it is all I'll say and my car has premium rubber and pads on it. I got the car pretty much Sebastian Loeb sideways at less than 30km/h.

There is cheap tarmac in use on Irish roads but the best of luck trying to prove it.

biko

raher1 wrote: »

I actually just moved off, going around ten miles a hour. I braked and no grip, abs couldn't find traction

You've been asked several times what brand tyres you had on.

kirving

I think that the Newlands cross flyover uses the same kind of low-noise tarmac. I haven't tried hard braking on it since it's always busy, but I would hazard a guess that the lower-noise stuff would also have less grip. I'd be interested to hear an answer at any rate, and happy to be proved wrong.

Even if you could prove through an FoI request that an engineering decision was made to use a quieter surface despite its lower grip, it would still have to be below an actual lower limit value for grip (which I doubt even exists in Ireland).

As an separate example, I emailed Limerick CoCo last night at 8pm about a pothole. By 8am this morning they were out fixing it. Hard to argue with that for service.

ironclaw

Kevin Irving wrote: »

I think that the Newlands cross flyover uses the same kind of low-noise tarmac.

I travel this daily and I'd agree with you. I also might be mad, but I think the tarmac is 'slipping' down the slope on the City bound side. Often just after cresting the slope and the car is freewheeling, there is a judder from the road all the way until its flat again. Almost feels like bumps. Can't explain it and I could be mad, but it happens nigh every day and its the only place it occurs. I original thought it was my tyres or clutch on the way out.

Also, who ever put an on ramp at the base of that hill should be shot. Completely undid the point of the bridge in the first place and regularly stops lane one. Why is it even necessary? Traffic is light from that direction and should be directed up to the roundabout and fed onto the M50 / Long Mile from there.

07Lapierre

raher1 wrote: »

I actually just moved off, going around ten miles a hour. I braked and no grip, abs couldn't find traction

At 10 miles per hour??? ABS won't activate at such a low speed.

colm_mcm

Of course it would, if the wheels were locking. You ever driven on ice?

TheQuietFella

BowWow wrote: »

Ans: You!

Isn't it always someone else's fault!!!

07Lapierre

colm_mcm wrote: »

Of course it would, if the wheels were locking. You ever driven on ice?

Yes...usually faster then 10mph too, but where did the OP mention Ice? Fresh tar and 10mph was mentioned, but no ice.

bear1

There isn't a generic speed that needs to be reached for the ABS to kick in.
ABS is activated if there is an impending lock up of the wheels.
I haven't seen it mentioned but what car do you have? Does it have ABS?

cruizer101

From some googling it would appear that maybe ABS does not work under certain speeds.
According to http://www.carbibles.com/brake_bible_pg2.html On a lot of vehicles, the ABS is useless much below about 10mph. Now I know carbibles is not a manufacturer saying this as fact but it is run by a knowledgeable guy.

Also according to the first post here http://forum.motorcycle-usa.com/default.aspx?f=22&m=314718 . I don't fully understand what he was saying but I think it is implying that at such low speeds given the amount of time the wheel is unbraked is so small and the force that would cause the wheel to rotate is so small that it tends to more or less lock up anyway.

Will have to have a go later on a clear road.

07Lapierre

bear1 wrote: »

There isn't a generic speed that needs to be reached for the ABS to kick in.
ABS is activated if there is an impending lock up of the wheels.
I haven't seen it mentioned but what car do you have? Does it have ABS?

Impending lock up? At 10mph?? Next time there is ice on the road I'm going to try this....ill be amazed if the ABS kicks in, even on ice.

colm_mcm

07Lapierre wrote: »

Yes...usually faster then 10mph too, but where did the OP mention Ice? Fresh tar and 10mph was mentioned, but no ice.

The cars not gonna know whether it's ice or just a slippy road.

I could be totally wrong here, but I remember about 15 years ago the abs in my 146 kicking in at a really low speed when I was at a junction. Never had a car with it before and it freaked me out.

07Lapierre

colm_mcm wrote: »

The cars not gonna know whether it's ice or just a slippy road.

I could be totally wrong here, but I remember about 15 years ago the abs in my 146 kicking in at a really low speed when I was at a junction. Never had a car with it before and it freaked me out.

I'm not disputing that ABS will kick in at low speeds, but I'm talking about 20 or 30mph.

10mph is not low speed...it's very,very, very low speed.

colm_mcm

I seriously doubt the OP was actually doing 10mph. Not saying he's lying, more that he's underestimating how fast he was going.

07Lapierre

Agree...I doubt the road surface had anything to do with the incident.

It's human nature. in my line of work, we have to notify people of speeding fines...they always deny travelling at the speed on the ticket! Same when cars are damaged..."it's only a scratch" etc. Etc.

kirving

ABS on every car will react differently to a situation. On complete ice, my car tends to try ABS first if the wheels lock, and then I think realises via the accelerometer that fully locking the wheels is a better course of action when there is literally zero grip. How it works will depend on the tyres and car setup though

Ded_Zebra

Any chance you can tell us what brand the tyres were?

In my experience ABS will be active from a very low speed but even if it's not a car without ABS will stop very quickly from 10mph.

2 summers ago I unfortunately rear ended someone, only very gently. when I was braking before I hit them I was swinging out of the steering wheel trying to press the brake harder yet it still felt like the car was hardly breaking at all. Nothing wrong with the car, the tyres and the road was dry, It is just because you want it to stop in time so badly it feels like nothing is happening.

raher1

the tyres are call nordexx, i got them new in the garage September

gctest50

very unscientific but anyway :

not good in the wet and ABS can't get grip that isn't there

http://www.mytyres.co.uk/cgi-bin/rtest.pl?rt_rubrik=pkw_sommerreifen&rt_profil=103260101&language=EN&dsco=110&pg=2

freinage avec abs et malgré sa a failli atterrir plusieurs fois dans des rond point ou rentré en collision avec une autre voiture (vitesse entre 30 et 80 km/h)

The Nordex Comus is most worthless tyres I ever driven. They are rock hard. I got them when I bought a used car that I use for a daily commuter, 150 km per day. In the wet you can provoke tyre squeels by approaching a round about in 30 km/h (20 mph).


The only positive I can say about them is that they hardly show any ware. And that my nephews belive I have american cop car tyres, because of the squeel.

mullingar

Nordexx?

O dear, a terrible E rating in wet grip, yet another example of the need to buy decent rubber and not cheap crap

http://www.nordjysk-daekcentral.com/Nordexx_2

raher1

they cost 50e to 60e

Noccy_Mondy

raher1 wrote: »

they cost 50e to 60e

What size rim?

raher1

15 rim

codghost89

you pay cheap, you get cheap, its not really worth it in the long run. You should invest in better tyres.

coolbeans

raher1 wrote: »

they cost 50e to 60e

You get what you pay for.

raher1

my tyre guy said they were the best, i m not a tyre expert