UCD Ag science banter

Kev W · 06-02-2016 09:38PM

RDM_83 again wrote: »

Give me some example posts then cos as far as I have seen it only works one way for you

You want examples of me not liking Jezebel or Buzzfeed? Do opinions only count if they've been posted on Boards previously?

andekwarhola · 06-02-2016 10:31PM

Do they always feel duty bound to observe the Ag abbreviation for extra culchie points or something?

JohnnyChimpo · 06-02-2016 10:52PM

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Ahh rape culture me bollix tbh. I do know what some people need it to mean, and all this incident is, is a couple of scumbags that were that sad that they got their jollies out of this craic.

"Couple of scumbags"

And yet OP mentions 200+ people in a FB group. plus I guess you can lump in the classy lads here asking for pics. Don't think the "few bad apples" defense applies here, its not the RCC...

RayM · 07-02-2016 01:56AM

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

That's Ag Science for you.

Sadly, it seems to be. I've had the occasional lecture in the Agriculture and Food Science centre in UCD, and the general atmosphere there is as grim as the building itself (which almost makes the Arts block look bright, airy and positively welcoming). I've overheard some fairly rotten conversations in the corridors, usually from 'lads' with obnoxiously loud voices and barely decipherable accents. Even by Ag Science standards, this is nasty though.

Ficheall · 07-02-2016 02:08AM

JohnnyChimpo wrote: »

plus I guess you can lump in the classy lads here asking for pics

Jesus ****ing wept.

Blue giant · 07-02-2016 02:23AM

Anyone actually bother to read the article it originally came from. The papers source was from an anonymous post on an app called yikyak. Not saying it doesn't exist but you'd think there should be a need for some hard proof before printing an article on it.

Digital Solitude · 07-02-2016 02:27AM

Much talk around town on it Blue?

Antar Bolaeisk · 07-02-2016 05:04AM

Studying silver all day for three whole years sounds like it would drive anyone to do crazy things.

The Rape of Lucretia · 07-02-2016 09:34AM

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

That's Ag Science for you.

It's not even a real SCIENCE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

arayess · 07-02-2016 10:03AM

PucaMama wrote: »

Calling it "banter" is part of the problem. So is accepting (and expecting) it because the're students.

True.

JohnnyChimpo wrote: »

"Couple of scumbags"

And yet OP mentions 200+ people in a FB group. plus I guess you can lump in the classy lads here asking for pics. Don't think the "few bad apples" defense applies here, its not the RCC...

given this may ended up as a criminal case it is only fair be reasonably assume that all 200 were not involved receiving unsolicited photos doesn't make you a bad person.
Lets hear the full truth before we rant on about 200 ***** preying on women.

arayess · 07-02-2016 10:38AM

I may be hammered for this but I don't give a hoot .
Firstly sharing initimate photos given to you by a lover is low.
and doing some makes you a cnut and the law should apply.

However I think the backlash against anybody who questions the victims behaviour in situations like this does society especially young women no help at all. Comments like "nice victim blaming , man" or similar do nothing to help people be responsible for their own actions.

people who pass out photos in these situations are completely wrong.
But people need to use some common sense and personal responsible in these situation to minimise the risk to themselves.

as for photos saying that's how people "do sex" these days is not an appropriate answer as it absolves one party of any responsibly for their behaviour. The risks involved in allowing these photos to be taken are plain to see.
It's not unreasonable to suggest the people query how these ladies ended up in this situation.
The answer is poor judgement. I classify it as similar to not wearing protection and taking a chance.

Sexual consent classes are a good call at secondary level (depends on the content) but they should include modules on being sexually responsible for yourself and working on people ability and confidence to say "No" which I believe is a huge issue in the whole area.

For these victims (if proven of course) it should serve as a warning.
You are (or should be ) responsible for your own behaviour and the decisions you make and because somebody took advantage of you it shouldn't be your behaviour is above reproach either.
This in no way mitigates or absolves any perpetrator of their crime and that's the difference between demanding common sense and victim blaming.

My thoughts are based on the premise that these photos were taken with consent , if they weren't that's a different situation

One eyed Jack · 07-02-2016 11:08AM

arayess wrote: »

I may be hammered for this but I don't give a hoot.

...

My thoughts are based on the premise that these photos were taken with consent , if they weren't that's a different situation

Nobody should be hammered for coming out with something stupid. The person who shared the photos is the only person responsible for passing them around online. Trying to suggest that the women are in any way responsible for anyone else's behaviour is just nonsense. They weren't forced to share the photos, they chose to.

tritium · 07-02-2016 11:13AM

JohnnyChimpo wrote: »

"Couple of scumbags"

And yet OP mentions 200+ people in a FB group. plus I guess you can lump in the classy lads here asking for pics. Don't think the "few bad apples" defense applies here, its not the RCC...

A few asshats did something pretty dispicable, they should be dealt with severely assuming the facts are as they appear.

To quote the line oft used by another group, you can't assume that these one or two people represent all Ag science students

(and no, being part of a facebook group that something was shared on doesn't make you accountable, and no, this is not an example of rape culture )

PucaMama · 07-02-2016 11:17AM

tritium wrote: »

A few asshats did something pretty dispicable, they should be dealt with severely assuming the facts are as they appear.

To quote the line oft used by another group, you can't assume that these one or two people represent all Ag science students

(and no, being part of a facebook group that something was shared on doesn't make you accountable, and no, this is not an example of rape culture )

They were part of a private chat where they all shared photos they were given privately and trusted to keep to themselves

One eyed Jack · 07-02-2016 11:21AM

JohnnyChimpo wrote: »

"Couple of scumbags"

And yet OP mentions 200+ people in a FB group. plus I guess you can lump in the classy lads here asking for pics. Don't think the "few bad apples" defense applies here, its not the RCC...

200 people is only a couple of scumbags. Perhaps that's what you mean by including the RCC in your post? Because I don't see how it's relevant otherwise. I don't need to defend anything here, I'm able to view things in proportion, so I don't come out with meaningless, trivialising, minimising sound bites like "an example of rape culture". It's trivialising rape IMO, and it takes the focus off actual perpetrators, by trying to suggest we're all perpetrators of this "rape culture", just to different degrees.

I can see why some people like to use the phrase, but it says more about their lack of perspective, than it does anything about social attitudes to sexual violence.

tritium · 07-02-2016 11:39AM

PucaMama wrote: »

They were part of a private chat where they all shared photos they were given privately and trusted to keep to themselves

From what I can make out from a quick Google, the core of this seems to be a small number of members in a private Facebook group sharing stories and in some cases photos (most links don't imply anything pornographic there) about girls they've slept with. One link I found detailing the story mentioned some nudes were shared. As I said before, if there was any element if revenge porn then the culprits should be dealt with severely.

There are however several links where someone tells us how this "revenge porn" is an "example of the unfettered lad culture rampant in UCD". Very little in an admittedly quick Google search to make the fairly large jump between the two positions, certainly I don't see many reference to the classic understanding of revenge porn, I.e. compromising photos and videos. Nothing either to indicate this is anything but a small number of individuals. The mention of their previous sin: the " I'd shift her when tipsy" Facebook group is beyond ridiculous- inelegant perhaps but not exactly a hate crime unless we plan on locking up everyone (male and female) who's ever drooled to their friends over a member if the opposite, or indeed same sex.

Not particularly nice behaviour by the Facebook members I agree (and nude photos would be obviously crossing a line here) but recounting stories in a private group, while not very nice behaviour is not really the image implied by the headline is it?

As I said, a few individuals that shouldn't be taken as an example of the wider student or faculty body. But of course its much easier for certain folks to generalise about " unfettered lad culture" and "rape culture ". If I didn't know better I might think the poor (potentially abhorrent) behaviour of a small group had been seized upon as an opportunity to push an agenda by some......

tritium · 07-02-2016 11:46AM

One eyed Jack wrote: »

200 people is only a couple of scumbags. Perhaps that's what you mean by including the RCC in your post? Because I don't see how it's relevant otherwise. I don't need to defend anything here, I'm able to view things in proportion, so I don't come out with meaningless, trivialising, minimising sound bites like "an example of rape culture". It's trivialising rape IMO, and it takes the focus off actual perpetrators, by trying to suggest we're all perpetrators of this "rape culture", just to different degrees.

I can see why some people like to use the phrase, but it says more about their lack of perspective, than it does anything about social attitudes to sexual violence.

Pretty much this. It always amazes me how certain. Group can use selective variations of the no true Scotsman defense for their own ideology while happy supporting sweeping generalisations and the intentional misuse of hugely offensive terms to demonize those they perceive as their opponents

Mehaffey1 · 07-02-2016 11:52AM

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

It's not even a real SCIENCE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tried to read this thread to get a hold on what this story is about but unfortunately didn't.

This post stood out though as of course there is no science involved in how the steak ends up in your freezer, the bread ends up in your cupboard or your milk ends up in your fridge.

hidinginthebush · 07-02-2016 11:54AM

People need to stop sharing nude pictures sent to them by people they half know.
People also need to stop taking nude photos of themselves and sending it on to people they only half know.

Now, wasn't that easy.

hidinginthebush · 07-02-2016 11:54AM

Edit: Boards double post 2016

silverharp · 07-02-2016 12:09PM

tritium wrote: »

As I said, a few individuals that shouldn't be taken as an example of the wider student or faculty body. But of course its much easier for certain folks to generalise about " unfettered lad culture" and "rape culture ". If I didn't know better I might think the poor (potentially abhorrent) behaviour of a small group had been seized upon as an opportunity to push an agenda by some......

thats fair, talking about Ireland the only thing I can think of where one could say there is a "culture of... " is alcohol and even there we are still talking about a minority . There is no rape culture, its a feminist fantasy. There is literally no public place where a man could say in a loud speaking voice to a group that he raped someone or uploaded a sex video of their ex for banter.

people in college now seem to be same ones were reading about 5 or 6 years back that were running rings around their parents over social media. Ive told my kids now from a young age to have a strict demarcation between their on line and real lives and not to compromise themselves because everything they "electronically" do can leak out and possibly come back to bite them in the ass in the future. Ive started googling people I recruit, I wouldnt hire someone that was associated with distributing sex tapes, if they cant be trusted to keep private confidences, I wouldnt trust them as employees.

arayess · 07-02-2016 12:51PM

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Nobody should be hammered for coming out with something stupid. The person who shared the photos is the only person responsible for passing them around online. Trying to suggest that the women are in any way responsible for anyone else's behaviour is just nonsense. They weren't forced to share the photos, they chose to.

nice dig - but my opinion is far from stupid.
I don't think you read my post correctly all the same.

people need to wise up about their own personal safety and take steps to avoid playing so easy into the hands of predators.
avoiding that conversation does society a disservice.

but go live in your fantasy world where everybody can do whatever they want without consequence. actions have consequences whether they were intended or not or whether you have control over those consequences or not.
life isn't fair or nice at times . That's how it is.

One eyed Jack · 07-02-2016 01:07PM

arayess wrote: »

nice dig - but my opinion is far from stupid.
I don't think you read my post correctly all the same.

people need to wise up about their own personal safety and take steps to avoid playing so easy into the hands of predators.
avoiding that conversation does society a disservice.

but go live in your fantasy world where everybody can do whatever they want without consequence. actions have consequences whether they were intended or not or whether you have control over those consequences or not.
life isn't fair or nice at times . That's how it is.

I thought you didn't give a hoot?

Or did I read that wrong too?

They're two different conversations btw - one conversation is about people being responsible for their personal safety, the other conversation is about condemning the people who do ****ty things to other people, and holding them responsible for their behaviour.

arayess · 07-02-2016 01:15PM

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I thought you didn't give a hoot?

Or did I read that wrong too?

They're two different conversations btw - one conversation is about people being responsible for their personal safety, the other conversation is about condemning the people who do ****ty things to other people, and holding them responsible for their behaviour.

being of sound mind (imo) , I tend not to get upset by people in the net and their comments which is what i meant. I thought that was clear enough , apologies if it wasn't.

But it doesn't mean I won't argue my point either .

try harder.

Figsy32 · 07-02-2016 01:39PM

Having read the College Tribune report that all this is based upon, and other articles in the examiner and the times, is the whole thing based around a couple of anonymous Yik Yaks? That doesn't seem to be a credible source? Maybe I've missed something else but I think the rush to judgment seems a bit premature. There does appear to have been a Facebook group, but whether what is alleged actually happened and even to what extent if it did happen doesn't seem to be proven at all?

upandcumming · 07-02-2016 02:24PM

Kev W wrote:

Of Example Rape Culture Post Actual An Your Is

There is no such thing as rape culture - people that use that phrase belittle the act of rape.

thattequilagirl · 07-02-2016 02:39PM

upandcumming wrote: »

There is no such thing as rape culture - people that use that phrase belittle the act of rape.

No, people use that phrase to raise awareness that the objectification and commodification of women, and acceptance of everyday sexism, can in many cases be linked to a mindset where some men play down sexual assault as banter or victim blame.

One eyed Jack · 07-02-2016 03:10PM

thattequilagirl wrote: »

No, people use that phrase to raise awareness that the objectification and commodification of women, and acceptance of everyday sexism, can in many cases be linked to a mindset where some men play down sexual assault as banter or victim blame.

So in your opinion then, "rape culture" is a phenomenon in which women are the victims, men are the perpetrators, and everyone needs to be made aware of this?

I really don't see how that particular mindset itself does anything to address the issue of sexual assault, or how it's supposed to target people who choose to commit sexual violence?

When a poster was asked earlier in the thread to explain what they meant by "an example of rape culture", they were told google it for themselves. That's some awareness raising right there. Even the people who use it, can't actually accurately describe what it's really supposed to mean. If they're not aware of what it means, and can't adequately explain it beyond a link to @everydayfemimism, then I'm at a loss to understand exactly what anyone is supposed to be raising awareness of, and who exactly this awareness is aimed at?

People are aware that people commit rape, but I've yet to see any conclusive evidence (not correlative evidence after the fact), that there is a connection between stupid comments, and rape. If that's the standard you're using, then you're well on your way to arguing that all sex is rape.

JohnnyChimpo · 07-02-2016 03:11PM

One eyed Jack wrote: »

200 people is only a couple of scumbags.

That's cool man. For me, "a couple" means 2, but feel free to make up any definitions you feel like. Clearly you're not interested in engaging in a discussion on any reasonable level, or questioning any of your own opinions.

Kev W · 07-02-2016 03:15PM

One eyed Jack wrote: »

So in your opinion then, "rape culture" is a phenomenon in which women are the victims, men are the perpetrators, and everyone needs to be made aware of this?

I really don't see how that particular mindset itself does anything to address the issue of sexual assault, or how it's supposed to target people who choose to commit sexual violence?

When a poster was asked earlier in the thread to explain what they meant by "an example of rape culture", they were told google it for themselves. That's some awareness raising right there. Even the people who use it, can't actually accurately describe what it's really supposed to mean. If they're not aware of what it means, and can't adequately explain it beyond a link to @everydayfemimism, then I'm at a loss to understand eca

That was me, and I did explain it a couple of posts later. And an unwillingness to hild someone's hand when they clearly have their mind made up is not same as an inability.