UCD Ag science banter

The Pheasant2

As a current male student of UCD I'm very relieved to hear that as far as we're aware no group exists - surely in a group of that size somebody with any evidence at all would come forward given the scale of the reaction when the story broke.

The whole thing just makes a me a little sad and disillusioned though...there are segments of the UCD population that stress the serious issue of "rape culture" within UCD - no such thing exists. There really is not a single aspect of university life whether it be in class or just chatting with the "lads" where the idea of rape is in someway acceptable or normalised; and yet the feminists would have you believe this issue not only exists but is endemic among the male population - this is simply untrue and the evidence backs it up...I don't understand why they continue to demand severe action against non existent problems

Wibbs

upandcumming wrote: »

Jaysus that Alan Maguire chap really wants it to be real.

Yep some buy into the BS and go down the rabbit hole so deeply that to suggest their "god" is false sends them into paroxysms of angst.

The Pheasant2 wrote: »

The whole thing just makes a me a little sad and disillusioned though...there are segments of the UCD population that stress the serious issue of "rape culture" within UCD - no such thing exists. There really is not a single aspect of university life whether it be in class or just chatting with the "lads" where the idea of rape is in someway acceptable or normalised; and yet the feminists would have you believe this issue not only exists but is endemic among the male population - this is simply untrue and the evidence backs it up...

How dare you besmirch the witch hunt campaign with facts. Are you mad?

I don't understand why they continue to demand severe action against non existent problems

A number of things IMH, chief among them attention and from that importance in the group and even financial return. Again just like the witch finders of old and just like with them the accusation is enough, if enough people buy into the repeated meme and proving a negative is difficult so it's a win win all around. No smoke without fire you know. The real bloody criminal aspect to all this is when people are actually sexually assaulted the real danger is that people will be more suspicious in the face of all the crying wolf.


Oh and just firing out some basic cop on here; there are no pics of my arse on the interwebs, because I never took a pic of my arse*. Pass it on. Now young folks can be daft, indeed that's one of the fantastic things about being young and mistakes will happen, lord knows I made a few. However I didn't have the pickled forever interwebs to worry about, merely people's shaky memories. Forget the nonsense of "consent classes", a far better idea would be "Don't put personal stuff up on the internet" classes. And I'd start that one young, well before university.





*the world really doesn't need that image...

Kev W

tritium wrote: »

To be fair, he/ she wasn't the one who managed to link a fictitious clickbait story someone pulled out of their ass to rape culture....

What is your take on a whole body of male students being demonized on the basis of hearsay and innuendo by the way? Surely an allegation of this nature is also a form of sexual violence?

What I actually said was that joking about the story being no good without getting to see the pics (because then you can masturbate to the, hur hur get it phwoar eh lads) is an example of rape culture. It was a response to a comment on the story, not a direct comment on the story itself. In fact none of my posts on this thread were directly commenting on the story because no proof had surfaced.

As to your second point, it sucks that this happened to an innocent group and I'm glad the truth came out and that no actual names were dragged into it.

But no, an allegation of that nature is not "a form of sexual violence." What an utterly stupid thing to say.

blackwave

upandcumming wrote: »

Jaysus that Alan Maguire chap really wants it to be real.

Nah he's just a white knight trying to save women from the awful men who don't understand them, like he does :rolleyes:

Andre 3000

These sort of groups do exist. I wouldn't say they're explicitly for just posing nudes and rating, they're typical "lad" groups that contain all sort of stuff, anything from arranging plans for a night out to help with essays etc. Obviously as college lads, women are gonna be brought up... I have no doubt pictures (clothed) have been shared in these groups, and perhaps the occasional post-ride selfie, but in terms of nudity, I'd doubt it highly. The thing is, these groups are 1 million percent not on Facebook, that'd be too public and too dodgy. Things like Viber and WhatsApp are much easier to use and navigate and are a more private means of having these groups.

Buford T. Justice XIX

Wibbs wrote: »

Yep some buy into the BS and go down the rabbit hole so deeply that to suggest their "god" is false sends them into paroxysms of angst.

How dare you besmirch the witch hunt campaign with facts. Are you mad? A number of things IMH, chief among them attention and from that importance in the group and even financial return. Again just like the witch finders of old and just like with them the accusation is enough, if enough people buy into the repeated meme and proving a negative is difficult so it's a win win all around. No smoke without fire you know. The real bloody criminal aspect to all this is when people are actually sexually assaulted the real danger is that people will be more suspicious in the face of all the crying wolf.


Oh and just firing out some basic cop on here; there are no pics of my arse on the interwebs, because I never took a pic of my arse*. Pass it on. Now young folks can be daft, indeed that's one of the fantastic things about being young and mistakes will happen, lord knows I made a few. However I didn't have the pickled forever interwebs to worry about, merely people's shaky memories. Forget the nonsense of "consent classes", a far better idea would be "Don't put personal stuff up on the internet" classes. And I'd start that one young, well before university.





*the world really doesn't need that image...

Someone REALLY needs to go on yikyak and post that Boards has a thread that rates moderators ar*es...








....and wait for the outrage to begin.










But don't hold your breath though.

Wibbs

Kev W wrote: »

What I actually said was that joking about the story being no good without getting to see the pics (because then you can masturbate to the, hur hur get it phwoar eh lads) is an example of rape culture.

Really... One would have to twist oneself in knots worthy of a bag of mightily pissed off eels to come to that conclusion. Do you even have the concept of "joking" or does Stewart Lee have to pass it as OK to laugh at something first?

But no, an allegation of that nature is not "a form of sexual violence." What an utterly stupid thing to say.

Aye, there's a lot of that about and I reckon we may just have hit the irony motherlode with it.

blackwave wrote: »

Nah he's just a white knight trying to save women from the awful men who don't understand them, like he does :rolleyes:

"White knight"? Really, part deux, the sequel. Jesus. It's like daftness in low fidelity stereo. "rolleyes" is right.

Wibbs

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

Someone REALLY needs to go on yikyak and post that Boards has a thread that rates moderators ar*es...

To be fair BTJ the only rating my arse would get is for it's ability to make a clear anatomical separation between my legs and my trunk. And it makes sitting easier.

RayM

UCD asked people to come forward with information about something that they (or their friends) were told would result in a criminal investigation and expulsion from the university. Nobody came forward. Investigation closed after less than four days. UCD are seen to have done their job and a very satisfactory conclusion (from their point of view) was reached. Move along, nothing to see here.

strelok

RayM wrote: »

UCD asked people to come forward with information about something that they (or their friends) were told would result in a criminal investigation and expulsion from the university. Nobody came forward. Investigation closed after less than four days. UCD are seen to have done their job and a very satisfactory conclusion (from their point of view) was reached. Move along, nothing to see here.

jet fuel can't melt rape culture

upandcumming

Kev W wrote:

But no, an allegation of that nature is not "a form of sexual violence." What an utterly stupid thing to say.

But it is male rape culture.

orubiru

RayM wrote: »

UCD asked people to come forward with information about something that they (or their friends) were told would result in a criminal investigation and expulsion from the university. Nobody came forward. Investigation closed after less than four days. UCD are seen to have done their job and a very satisfactory conclusion (from their point of view) was reached. Move along, nothing to see here.

Hey, maybe you are quite right and this has all been covered up. Maybe.

People should have still managed to learn their lesson from this though. If you do believe in a conspiracy then you investigate it while steering clear of making accusations until you have something concrete. You make the accusations when you have aquired proof, see? This protects you from losing all credibility.

What I would have expected to see here is people holding thier hands up and saying "OK, we got it wrong here and jumped straight in without any evidence, won't do that again". A quick apology and maybe an acceptance that spreading misinformation or rumours without proper analysis of the facts can be damaging.

Instead we have a lot of people, on Twitter and Facebook, who are basically "doubling down" and increasing the volume and intensity of their rhetoric.

Its a conspiracy now? OK. Then what happens when its shown that there's no proof of conspiracy?

Is there a conspiracy to hide the conspiracy to hide the conspiracy to hide the fact that 200 lads were posting private photos online?

Or do we just assume that this Facebook page never existed until we see the evidence?

What's the sensible, and morally correct, thing to do here? Make baseless accusations or wait for proof?

upandcumming

RayM wrote:

UCD asked people to come forward with information about something that they (or their friends) were told would result in a criminal investigation and expulsion from the university. Nobody came forward. Investigation closed after less than four days. UCD are seen to have done their job and a very satisfactory conclusion (from their point of view) was reached. Move along, nothing to see here.

Ah Ray will you give it up...

University Observer wrote:

“The investigation sought, initially through the Dean of Agriculture, information on a confidential basis from students of the School of Agriculture and Food Science, and through social media from the entire student body of approximately 27,000,†Professor Rogers wrote to students. “The investigation also interviewed 28 individuals and went through a large amount of online and other documentation.â€

Why are you basing your belief that this group existed on an anonymous posting in YikYak?

RayM

orubiru wrote: »

Hey, maybe you are quite right and this has all been covered up. Maybe.

I wouldn't even say they actively sought to cover it up. If somebody came forward with screenshots, or if somebody was prepared to risk getting themselves or their friends expelled, I'm pretty sure nothing would have been 'covered up'. I just believe that the parameters of UCD's (very brief) investigation were not conducive to reaching anything other than what, for them, was undeniably a very satisfactory conclusion.

upandcumming wrote:

Why are you basing your belief that this group existed on an anonymous posting in YikYak?

I'm basing it on precedent, and on my own experiences as a current UCD student.

upandcumming

No doubt the result is satisfactory to UCD.
How would you have conducted the investigation differently? Like they interviewed 28, and invited people to submit information - neither resulted in hard evidence or any evidence at all.

What about your time in UCD says to you that this group existed?

smurgen

It would be extremely easy to get evidence of such a group.it takes milliseconds to take a screenshot on a mobile phone.200 people involved and not one leak of evidence? My bollocks!the group doesn't exist end of story.

tritium

Kev W wrote: »

What I actually said was that joking about the story being no good without getting to see the pics (because then you can masturbate to the, hur hur get it phwoar eh lads) is an example of rape culture. It was a response to a comment on the story, not a direct comment on the story itself. In fact none of my posts on this thread were directly commenting on the story because no proof had surfaced.

What you did was push the whole gender wars angle then try to belittle anyone who disagreed with you....

As to your second point, it sucks that this happened to an innocent group and I'm glad the truth came out and that no actual names were dragged into it.

I wonder if you it others are even aware of the double standard you apply in your outrage filter? After the rant you went on when someone accused you of white knighting a few pages back, decrying how you think society views women, is "it sucks" really the best you can do at the prospect of a group of young men being falsely branded sexual predators to further someone's agenda?

But no, an allegation of that nature is not "a form of sexual violence." What an utterly stupid thing to say.

Based on this thread I guess I'll have to bow to your greater experience here

tritium

RayM wrote: »

I wouldn't even say they actively sought to cover it up. If somebody came forward with screenshots, or if somebody was prepared to risk getting themselves or their friends expelled, I'm pretty sure nothing would have been 'covered up'. I just believe that the parameters of UCD's (very brief) investigation were not conducive to reaching anything other than what, for them, was undeniably a very satisfactory conclusion.



I'm basing it on precedent, and on my own experiences as a current UCD student.

What else would you have the college do in the absence if *any* evidence? It seems in some quarters they'll be damned unless they put some heads on spikes after a kangaroo court.

Do you disagree with their criticism of the college tribunes handling if this?

I'm curious though if the SU will be as quick to condemn the false allegation and offer public support to male Ag science students affected by this

Wibbs

orubiru wrote: »

What's the sensible, and morally correct, thing to do here? Make baseless accusations or wait for proof?

It seems the MO is if in doubt go hysterical. It's gone a little too far into Reds Rapists Under the Bed at this stage. Some should really read up on McCarthyism and how that worked. Identify a "threat" and label an "enemy", stir up a frenzy of fear and paranoia based on the repetition of makeyuppy stats, hearsay and conjecture, go baldheaded for anyone who dares question the orthodoxy and make them "part of the problem". Rinse and repeat until (hopefully)enough people spot the BS for what it is. Now like Communist spies in 50's America rape and sexual assault most certainly exist and it needs to be tackled when and where it happens, but not in this nonsensical way. Indeed this kinda nonsense is arguably detrimental to targeting rape as a crime. Well it's informative to note that for all his BS McCarthy found bugger all Commie spies...

Andre 3000

smurgen wrote: »

It would be extremely easy to get evidence of such a group.it takes milliseconds to take a screenshot on a mobile phone.200 people involved and not one leak of evidence? My bollocks!the group doesn't exist end of story.

To screenshot 'evidence', one would have to be part of the private group and thus you would be implicating yourself as well as your best friends and fellow classmates. I think it's more of a case everyone is covering each other's ass by denying all. Again, I would hope a group for strictly posting nudes and rating them doesn't exist, but if it did exist, you'd have to imagine that its members have a 'pact' not to disclose any of it.

One eyed Jack

Kev W wrote: »

What I actually said was that joking about the story being no good without getting to see the pics (because then you can masturbate to the, hur hur get it phwoar eh lads) is an example of rape culture. It was a response to a comment on the story, not a direct comment on the story itself. In fact none of my posts on this thread were directly commenting on the story because no proof had surfaced.

Have you forgotten what you said yourself earlier already?

Kev W wrote: »

Just because you infer something does not mean that it was implied.

As for your nonsense about "rape culture", that's been sufficiently debunked already, to the point where it has been shown to have a paradoxical effect on efforts to address the issue of rape.

(Even then, I'm not seeing how you connect masturbation with rape? Are you actually trying to make that connection? Puritanical nonsense.)

smurgen

Andre 3000 wrote: »

To screenshot 'evidence', one would have to be part of the private group and thus you would be implicating yourself as well as your best friends and fellow classmates. I think it's more of a case everyone is covering each other's ass by denying all. Again, I would hope a group for strictly posting nudes and rating them doesn't exist, but if it did exist, you'd have to imagine that its members have a 'pact' not to disclose any of it.

You think 200 people are singing from the same hymn sheet?you think 200 people wouldn't send some of these pics to other people outside that group?

Buford T. Justice XIX

Andre 3000 wrote: »

To screenshot 'evidence', one would have to be part of the private group and thus you would be implicating yourself as well as your best friends and fellow classmates. I think it's more of a case everyone is covering each other's ass by denying all. Again, I would hope a group for strictly posting nudes and rating them doesn't exist, but if it did exist, you'd have to imagine that its members have a 'pact' not to disclose any of it.

This is Ireland.

How long do you think a 'secret' group can remain secret without some disaffected member leaks something anonymously?

If it's out there, and I have no doubt that there are such groups in the general population, it will emerge in time.

Or fade from memory and the subjects of the accusation will remain with their reputations tarnished.

Andre 3000

smurgen wrote: »

You think 200 people are singing from the same hymn sheet?you think 200 people wouldn't send some of these pics to other people outside that group?

I'm member of a WhatsApp group myself with over 100 lads and we have a specific rule not to mention the group to anyone not part of it. Now I dunno the code of conduct the UCD lads have, but if there is something dodgy going on in it, I'm certain that they are all yes, singing from the same hymn sheet. Our group, if disclosed has nothing too embarrassing in it, but nevertheless it's a private group...and private groups are private for that reason, so outsiders cannot see it or do not know about the dealings in it.

upandcumming

Andre 3000 wrote:

I'm member of a WhatsApp group myself with over 100 lads and we have a specific rule not to mention the group to anyone not part of it. Now I dunno the code of conduct the UCD lads have, but if there is something dodgy going on in it, I'm certain that they are all yes, singing from the same hymn sheet. Our group, if disclosed has nothing too embarrassing in it, but nevertheless it's a private group...and private groups are private for that reason, so outsiders cannot see it or do not know about the dealings in it.

Is this fight club or something?

bodice ripper

This right here is why I don't like the tossing around of the term rape culture, and I like seeing lad culture tied in with I even less. The vast majority of my friends are lads in the classic sense, none of them think rape is ok. If you damned young women they way people damn young men, there would be war.

Andre 3000

upandcumming wrote: »

Is this fight club or something?

No not at all, but private groups are private for a reason. Any of the lads that are part of our group, I know pretty well, and I am not sharing private things with them unless I know them well. As I said, our own group has nothing too embarrassing or that could get us in trouble, but if this UCD group is actually legit, and lets be frank, you'd be naive to think these groups do not exist, I am certain that there are super strict about not disclosing the group, and especially pictures et al if there is explicit content.

IvyTheTerrible

Andre 3000 wrote: »

No not at all, but private groups are private for a reason. Any of the lads that are part of our group, I know pretty well, and I am not sharing private things with them unless I know them well. As I said, our own group has nothing too embarrassing or that could get us in trouble, but if this UCD group is actually legit, and lets be frank, you'd be naive to think these groups do not exist, I am certain that there are super strict about not disclosing the group, and especially pictures et al if there is explicit content.

You said there are 100 people in your group. Are you saying you know all of them well?
I'd be very sceptical that something interesting wouldn't be leaked from a group with a hundred members.

Andre 3000

IvyTheTerrible wrote: »

You said there are 100 people in your group. Are you saying you know all of them well?
I'd be very sceptical that something interesting wouldn't be leaked from a group with a hundred members.

I'd know most very well, some I would know pretty well and there's maybe 10-15 of the lads I'd know a little....but enough to know that we both know that our group is strictly private. The thing is, our group is made up of several groups of lads, so it's basically a collection of groups of 10 or so lads all amalgamated into one group...so there's obviously your own friend group code that every group of friends has. If someone was to speak about the goings on in our group, it is highly likely he is talking to another member of the group, so there's no harm done.

smurgen

Andre 3000 wrote: »

I'd know most very well, some I would know pretty well and there's maybe 10-15 of the lads I'd know a little....but enough to know that we both know that our group is strictly private. The thing is, our group is made up of several groups of lads, so it's basically a collection of groups of 10 or so lads all amalgamated into one group...so there's obviously your own friend group code that every group of friends has. If someone was to speak about the goings on in our group, it is highly likely he is talking to another member of the group, so there's no harm done.

Put it this way.I've a cousins chat as we have a large family and there's at max 20 members. A joke from this chat was passed on to an uncle and it caused trouble.we can't even begin to think who passed it on.people are leaving and being added to the group all the time.with 200 people it would be impossible to keep tabs so I'm calling bull****.