The Weird, Wacky and Awesome World of the NFL - General Banter thread V2

Knex* · 08-01-2016 03:05PM

Stickum doesn't make you one of the most polished route runners to ever play the game, let alone the ability to do it for 20 years, though.

And the gloves they use nowadays as well, its pretty much the same thing.

Rice is the greatest with or without stickum, I believe. Nobody is catching someone that far ahead of the game.

adrian522 · 08-01-2016 03:41PM

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

For me, I'm afraid it's more than a black spot and what makes it worst is, the guy admitted to cheating. Stickum is a coulourless, very sticky adhesive and Rice coated his gloves and forearms in it, right up to his elbows. A WR like Rice used stickum because it made catching & holding the ball way, way easier and reduced the risk of fumbles. And that's why the NFL made it illegal to use and banned it back in 1981. What makes it worse is, it's not as if we can brush it off as some rival fan jealousy & hearsay, that you often get trying to tarnish great players. Rice himself was stupid enough to open his mouth about it and when that happened, that ruined him and his achievements in my eyes. After that, Moss brushes him aside and takes the number one spot for my GOAT WR.

Itssoeasy · 08-01-2016 03:54PM

Knex. wrote: »

Stickum doesn't make you one of the most polished route runners to ever play the game, let alone the ability to do it for 20 years, though.

And the gloves they use nowadays as well, its pretty much the same thing.

Rice is the greatest with or without stickum, I believe. Nobody is catching someone that far ahead of the game.

Good point. Stickum helped you catch the ball but if you can't run a route right you're not catching anything.

Billy86 · 08-01-2016 04:11PM

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Good point. Stickum helped you catch the ball but if you can't run a route right you're not catching anything.

And worth mentioning that Rice's game wasn't as dominant at catching in traffic like a TO/Gronk, or making the spectacular catch like a Moss/Cris Carter. If Carter had been using stickum for example, in my opinion it would have had a much bigger impact given his penchant for near-impossible one-handed sideline grabs.

08-01-2016 04:51PM

Moss is the most talented receiver to ever play the game but he will never be the goat he took to many years off

Itssoeasy · 08-01-2016 04:55PM

Clementine Scary String wrote: »

Moss is the most talented receiver to ever play the game but he will never be the goat he took to many years off

So you don't think he's getting a bust in canton nerd ? I think moss is one of the greatest ever but not the greatest. That goes to jerry.

Itssoeasy · 08-01-2016 04:58PM

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000619381/article/desean-jackson-chip-kelly-ruined-the-eagles

Billy86 · 08-01-2016 05:04PM

Itssoeasy wrote: »

So you don't think he's getting a bust in canton nerd ? I think moss is one of the greatest ever but not the greatest. That goes to jerry.

Anyone who think Moss isn't going to Canton deserves multiple slaps, front hand and back.

I don't think that's what nerd was implying though. Nearly every 'greatest WR' discussion comes down to Moss' talent vs Rice's production, with the occasional (and fair) mention of Don Hutson's mind-bogglingly insane numbers for the time (for me he is the Otto Graham of WRs; possibly the GOAT but too far back to be able to quantify in the modern game). After/alongside Ray Lewis and Tony G, I reckon he is the safest lock of any non-QB from the last 15 years to go to Canton.

Seriously though on Hutson... 74 catches, 1,211 yards (16.4 avg) and 17 TDs in 1942, at 110yds/game!? What would that even convert into these days when compared to other WRs of the time... 150+ catches, 2,500+ yards and 30+ TDs or something? Complete random estimate but that's got the be perhaps the biggest statistical outlier I can think of in league history, off the top of my head anyway.

Billy86 · 08-01-2016 05:06PM

Itssoeasy wrote: »

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000619381/article/desean-jackson-chip-kelly-ruined-the-eagles

Still surprises me that he wasn't used by Kelly, a very underrated player I think and his explosiveness seemed such a good fit.

I don't know why he cares to much though, by saying he "could care less." #grammarnazi

Itssoeasy · 08-01-2016 05:12PM

Billy86 wrote: »

Still surprises me that he wasn't used by Kelly, a very underrated player I think and his explosiveness seemed such a good fit.

I don't know why he cares to much though, by saying he "could care less." #grammarnazi

That could care less thing seems to be an american thing.

Billy86 · 08-01-2016 05:44PM

Itssoeasy wrote: »

That could care less thing seems to be an american thing.

It's just bad grammar to be honest, kind of like "x is greater then y" ... Then y what??? A few little things like that really wind me up for some (trivial) reason. Also pluralising surnames, e.g. Shay Givens. :mad:

Realt Dearg Sec · 08-01-2016 05:56PM

Billy86 wrote: »

It's just bad grammar to be honest, kind of like "x is greater then y" ... Then y what??? A few little things like that really wind me up for some (trivial) reason. Also pluralising surnames, e.g. Shay Givens. :mad:

I'd have to say you're offsides with that comment.

To all intensive purposes they mean the same thing. This kind of grammar nazi-ism is literally the most annoying thing ever, and it's spreading like wildflowers these days.

Billy86 · 08-01-2016 06:14PM

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

I'd have to say you're offsides with that comment.

To all intensive purposes they mean the same thing. This kind of grammar nazi-ism is literally the most annoying thing ever, and it's spreading like wildflowers these days.

They don't though. I could care less means that you... could care less. If you could care less, then that means you do care. It would be like saying "you could drive faster" to imply someone is driving their vehicle as fast as it can possibly go. It makes no sense whatsoever.

I wouldn't generally consider myself a grammar nazi, really just when it comes to certain common sayings. I see what you're up to, though. :mad:

- Billy Eighty Sixes.

(then again I always read for name as 'Real Dealt Searg' for no good reason

)

raze_them_all_ · 08-01-2016 09:38PM

Mack named as an all pro in two positions, first player ever

Knex* · 08-01-2016 09:41PM

raze_them_all_ wrote: »

Mack named as an all pro in two positions, first player ever

First team all pro, yeah.

Watt and Justin Smith had all pros for DE and DT before.

jack presley · 08-01-2016 09:46PM

Gonna go all homer and put forward the case for Joe Jacoby getting elected. As part of the Hogs, he was part of three Superbowl winning teams protecting three different quarterbacks and setting up lanes for the run. Russ Grimm is already in so hopefully at some stage (more than likely not this year), Joe will join him.

Son Of A Vidic · 09-01-2016 07:43PM

Knex. wrote: »

Stickum doesn't make you one of the most polished route runners to ever play the game, let alone the ability to do it for 20 years, though.

I don't think being able to run a route excuses any player from cheating. Every decent NFL WR can run their assigned routes the way Rice did. But not every WR in the NFL coated themselves in adhesive, the way Rice admitted to doing.

Knex. wrote: »

And the gloves they use nowadays as well, its pretty much the same thing.

I'm afraid not because there's nothing not quite like stickum. The fact that it's a strong adhesive should make the reasons why self-explanatory.

Knex. wrote: »

Rice is the greatest with or without stickum, I believe. Nobody is catching someone that far ahead of the game.

Nope, for me it's completely nonsensical to ignore his blatant admission of cheating. And because of his admission, he's ruined in my eyes. Christ, I could only imagine Moss's stats if had of used stickum.

Realt Dearg Sec · 09-01-2016 08:08PM

Clowney stormed out of the locker room and the stadium over being made inactive for the game.

That ****e acting is poison for a team at a moment like that. If I was a coach, I don't care where he was drafted, if want nothing to do with him again.

Clowney indeed.

Billy86 · 09-01-2016 08:11PM

To be fair, if we are holding the marker that "cheating is cheating is cheating and automatically disqualifies a player from being the best" then the same could easily be said about knowing what plays the opposing defense is going to call in advance.

Realt Dearg Sec · 09-01-2016 08:12PM

Billy86 wrote: »

To be fair, if we are holding the marker that "cheating is cheating is cheating and automatically disqualifies a player from being the best" then the same could easily be said about knowing what plays the opposing defense is going to call in advance.

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!

Billy86 · 09-01-2016 08:15PM

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Clowney stormed out of the locker room and the stadium over being made inactive for the game.

That ****e acting is poison for a team at a moment like that. If I was a coach, I don't care where he was drafted, if want nothing to do with him again.

Clowney indeed.

Such a shame for the Texans too - think of what Clowney could have been if he worked out, to partner Watt? Ifs and buts of course, but it's mad to think they could have had Aaron Donald in that line in his place, even if they drafted down a bit (and going from 1st to say, 8th or 9th can bring in big value obviously, even without a big name QB like 2014 lacked).

They could have had Donald and Carr; instead they have Clowney and Xavier Su'a-Filo (10 starts in 2 years on the offensive line). Switch those two, and who only knows how good they could have been this season and moving forward.

Realt Dearg Sec · 09-01-2016 08:18PM

Billy86 wrote: »

Such a shame for the Texans too - think of what Clowney could have been if he worked out, to partner Watt? Ifs and buts of course, but it's mad to think they could have had Aaron Donald in that line in his place, even if they drafted down a bit (and going from 1st to say, 8th or 9th can bring in big value obviously, even without a big name QB like 2014 lacked).

They could have had Donald and Carr; instead they have Clowney and Xavier Su'a-Filo (10 starts in 2 years on the offensive line). Switch those two, and who only knows how good they could have been this season and moving forward.

To be fair, at the time clowney was an absolute no brainer, I doubt there was a poster here who thought someone else was a better first pick. But yeah, injuries plus baby tantrum equals bust.

Billy86 · 09-01-2016 08:23PM

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

To be fair, at the time clowney was an absolute no brainer, I doubt there was a poster here who thought someone else was a better first pick. But yeah, injuries plus baby tantrum equals bust.

Oh he was, or at least - he almost was. There was a good bit of talk about Khalil Mack, too (and murmurs of Teddy... or Manziel, so it could have been worse!!). But that was more to do with Clowney's injury concerns than anything else. Of course "hindsight is a great thing" so I'm not necessarily criticising them, just saying it must sting a bit for Texans fans knowing that they could have replaced Clowney with one of Mack/Donald/ODB.

Still think passing on Carr for a G when they were so badly in need at QB was poor though; Carr even had some top 10 pick talk at some stages if I recall. Maybe they really liked Bridgewater and sh@t the bed when the Vikings traded up to take him one pick before them at #32. That's my guess, anyway.

09-01-2016 08:32PM

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

I don't think being able to run a route excuses any player from cheating. Every decent NFL WR can run their assigned routes the way Rice did. But not every WR in the NFL coated themselves in adhesive, the way Rice admitted to doing.

I'm afraid not because there's nothing not quite like stickum. The fact that it's a strong adhesive should make the reasons why self-explanatory.

Nope, for me it's completely nonsensical to ignore his blatant admission of cheating. And because of his admission, he's ruined in my eyes. Christ, I could only imagine Moss's stats if had of used stickum.

Route running is one of the most difficult things for a receiver to become great at if not the most difficult and rice is one of the best there has been at it so your compleatly wrong there.

Also with regards the last bit I don't think stickum would have helped moss he had pretty insane hands he caught everything anyway

Son Of A Vidic · 09-01-2016 08:57PM

Clementine Scary String wrote: »

Route running is one of the most difficult things for a receiver to become great at if not the most difficult and rice is one of the best there has been at it so your compleatly wrong there.

Also with regards the last bit I don't think stickum would have helped moss he had pretty insane hands he caught everything anyway

It doesn't matter whether Rice ran his route, cartwheeled his route or moon-walked his route. It doesn't matter if he was the greatest route runner or whether he was just a good route runner. Because it all becomes irrelevant after he admitted to cheating. What separates the best WR's from the average WR's is making the catch, holding onto the ball and not fumbling it. And using stickum made that a whole lot easier.

Clementine Scary String wrote: »

Also with regards the last bit I don't think stickum would have helped moss he had pretty insane hands he caught everything anyway

Because of its very nature and its effects, it would defy the laws of physics to suggest stickum wouldn't help any WR.

Pyjamarama · 09-01-2016 09:00PM

Wow someone is so arrogant as to say Rices' reputation is ruined because he used stickum... wow... the greatest player to play any position ever.

Is Bills legacy ruined because the Patriots were caught cheating? I wouldn't bother bringing it up but you are a Pats fan right?

09-01-2016 09:04PM

Pyjamarama wrote: »

Wow someone is so arrogant as to say Rices' reputation is ruined because he used stickum... wow... the greatest player to play any position ever.

Is Bills legacy ruined because the Patriots were caught cheating? I wouldn't bother bringing it up but you are a Pats fan right?

A Jesus here we go again *popciorn gif

09-01-2016 09:06PM

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

It doesn't matter whether Rice ran his route, cartwheeled his route or moon-walked his route. It doesn't matter if he was the greatest route runner or whether he was just a good route runner. Because it all becomes irrelevant after he admitted to cheating. What separates the best WR's from the average WR's is making the catch, holding onto the ball and not fumbling it. And using stickum made that a whole lot easier.

Because of its very nature and its effects, it would defy the laws of physics to suggest stickum wouldn't help any WR.

Hate to break it to you by untill recently most nfl players where using hgh or "deer antler spray" so there is probably no greatest by your own standard.

It's not a physics thing with regards moss at all it wouldn't have helped him that much because he didn't really drop balls anyway effort was his issue

Paully D · 09-01-2016 09:28PM

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

To be fair, at the time clowney was an absolute no brainer, I doubt there was a poster here who thought someone else was a better first pick. But yeah, injuries plus baby tantrum equals bust.

I was adamant they should have gone with Bridgewater #1 overall as their pick, despite thinking that Clowney was the best player in the draft and not being surprised that they went with Clowney.

I wouldn't right him off yet mind. Next year is make or break time IMO.

Billy86 · 09-01-2016 10:26PM

Clementine Scary String wrote: »

Hate to break it to you by untill recently most nfl players where using hgh or "deer antler spray" so there is probably no greatest by your own standard.

As a Packers fan and as much as I love the guy, I'm still very suspicious of Clay Matthews on that front.

The Weird, Wacky and Awesome World of the NFL - General Banter thread V2

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