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Bdgp

  • 15-12-2015 11:42am
    #1
    Farmer Dan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 219 ✭✭


    Morning all,

    Has anyone received payment for this scheme yet or when are the proposing to pay. Assuming that you've returned all your samples and recorded all the data?

    Thanks


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Comments

  • #2
    croot
    Registered Users Posts: 571 ✭✭✭croot


    I have all completed and Coveney has said payments will start in the second week of December. Taking into account the efficiency of the dept. of Ag payments section this year I'd say we should expect it next May.....


  • #3
    Bitten & Hisses
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,202 ✭✭✭Bitten & Hisses


    So, uncle Simon put out a press release that he started paying out the BDGP payments this week. Has anyone received their payment yet?


  • #4
    Kovu
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,241 ✭✭✭✭Kovu


    Bitten & Hisses wrote: »
    So, uncle Simon put out a press release that he started paying out the BDGP payments this week. Has anyone received their payment yet?

    Just showing up in the 'Amounts Due' tab for me today. Dated Dec 16th.

    What's ''Scheme Completion Reduction''?


  • #5
    Grueller
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,259 ✭✭✭Grueller


    Kovu wrote: »
    Just showing up in the 'Amounts Due' tab for me today. Dated Dec 16th.

    What's ''Scheme Completion Reduction''?

    Cost of genomic testing on the tissue samples returned maybe?


  • #6
    Kovu
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,241 ✭✭✭✭Kovu


    Grueller wrote: »
    Cost of genomic testing on the tissue samples returned maybe?

    Don't think so, there's also a reduction called ''ICBF Genotype Testing Recoup''
    Fook sake, it's not a lot of money for all the crap I have to do for it.


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  • #7
    Bitten & Hisses
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,202 ✭✭✭Bitten & Hisses


    Kovu wrote: »
    Just showing up in the 'Amounts Due' tab for me today. Dated Dec 16th.

    What's ''Scheme Completion Reduction''?

    I just checked and it's as you describe above. The mysterious "scheme completion reduction" is there too, whatever that is.
    Now, if the GLAS payment arrived, it would be a good help...


  • #8
    Kovu
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,241 ✭✭✭✭Kovu


    Bitten & Hisses wrote: »
    I just checked and it's as you describe above. The mysterious "scheme completion reduction" is there too, whatever that is.
    Now, if the GLAS payment arrived, it would be a good help...

    Do you know if this is the same payment we'll receive each year in the scheme or will it change?


  • #9
    Bitten & Hisses
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,202 ✭✭✭Bitten & Hisses


    I must check against the letter I got from the dept earlier, as both the hectares and amount paid are slightly less than I expected. Maybe they haven't paid out yet on younger calves? When you compare the two, it should be clear what the level of payment will be


  • #10
    Kovu
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,241 ✭✭✭✭Kovu


    Bitten & Hisses wrote: »
    I must check against the letter I got from the dept earlier, as both the hectares and amount paid are slightly less than I expected. Maybe they haven't paid out yet on younger calves? When you compare the two, it should be clear what the level of payment will be

    Ah that could be it, I must check back to my original calculations too as I thought I'd be getting more. Guess we'll find out soon once everyone gets theirs and starts asking questions :D


  • #11
    Bitten & Hisses
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,202 ✭✭✭Bitten & Hisses


    So, I checked my acceptance letter from the Dept and the gross amount is correct, payment is for the full amount. The genotyping costs are a large chunk of the payment.
    I strongly support the scheme as I think It will provide invaluable data over time, but when the cost of participation is ~17% of the payment, it looks a lot less attractive.


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  • #12
    Grueller
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,259 ✭✭✭Grueller


    Bitten & Hisses wrote: »
    So, I checked my acceptance letter from the Dept and the gross amount is correct, payment is for the full amount. The genotyping costs are a large chunk of the payment.
    I strongly support the scheme as I think It will provide invaluable data over time, but when the cost of participation is ~17% of the payment, it looks a lot less attractive.

    Especially as dairy farmers can be given the excess without all of the rubbish red tape we will have in the beef sector for this.


  • #13
    Hurling Hereford
    Registered Users Posts: 320 ✭✭Hurling Hereford


    Folks, are any of ye still waiting on your 2015 BDGP payments?


  • #14
    Hurling Hereford
    Registered Users Posts: 320 ✭✭Hurling Hereford


    Oh yeah, almost forgot I believe quite a few farmers are STILL waiting on the remainder of their 2013 Beef Data Programme and 2014 Beef Data Programme & Beef Genomics Scheme PAYMENTS also. The Beef Scheme Section in Portlaoise must be closed for business?


  • #15
    kollegeknight
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,327 ✭✭✭kollegeknight


    Not a penny yet. Been told with last two months it's in the next pay run


  • #16
    Hurling Hereford
    Registered Users Posts: 320 ✭✭Hurling Hereford


    kollegeknight wrote: »
    Not a penny yet. Been told with last two months it's in the next pay run
    Were you told why there has been a delay in your case?


  • #17
    dohc turbo2
    Registered Users Posts: 848 ✭✭✭dohc turbo2


    I'm in the 2015 and my payment went on agfood at the weekend . They said to me ages ago that the 15 reference year were last to be paid .


  • #18
    kollegeknight
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,327 ✭✭✭kollegeknight


    Hurling Hereford wrote: »
    Were you told why there has been a delay in your case?

    There was an issue when my father passed away and the entitlements were being transferred. So I've been on phone all year gathering money. But two months ago they said the money was ready to go into account and whenever I call it's the same story


  • #19
    Hurling Hereford
    Registered Users Posts: 320 ✭✭Hurling Hereford


    kollegeknight wrote: »
    There was an issue when my father passed away and the entitlements were being transferred. So I've been on phone all year gathering money. But two months ago they said the money was ready to go into account and whenever I call it's the same story
    And what are they telling you?


  • #20
    kollegeknight
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,327 ✭✭✭kollegeknight


    Hurling Hereford wrote: »
    And what are they telling you?

    Same thing every time. The money is ready to go and it should be in the next run and that I should see it in ten days.


  • #21
    Hurling Hereford
    Registered Users Posts: 320 ✭✭Hurling Hereford


    kollegeknight wrote: »
    Same thing every time. The money is ready to go and it should be in the next run and that I should see it in ten days.
    Time for you to contact a local TD and get him/her to stir them up a bit about your payment. Worked for me about a year ago. Don't give up or they win!


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  • #22
    kollegeknight
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,327 ✭✭✭kollegeknight


    Hurling Hereford wrote: »
    Time for you to contact a local TD and get him/her to stir them up a bit about your payment. Worked for me about a year ago. Don't give up or they win!

    I'll keep plugging away alright. Cheers for the advice


  • #23
    Hurling Hereford
    Registered Users Posts: 320 ✭✭Hurling Hereford


    kollegeknight wrote: »
    I'll keep plugging away alright. Cheers for the advice
    That's the spirit!


  • #24
    The man in red and black
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 668 ✭✭✭The man in red and black


    Does anyone have genotype results yet? We were part of the Beef Data program going back to 2014 and still have no results other than some sires verified. I was under the impression we were to get alot more data than that?!


  • #25
    blue5000
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,696 Mod ✭✭✭✭blue5000


    Ya it's there alright in a roundabout way; type in the tag number into 'bull search' . Then on the right hand side you will see a tab for gen. Giantpencil did a screenshot here http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057187047&page=26

    If the seat's wet, sit on yer hat, a cool head is better than a wet ar5e.



  • #26
    sonnybill
    Registered Users Posts: 970 ✭✭✭sonnybill


    This is a six year commitment to the BDGP ,once 15 and 2016 is complete if I were to sell cows and get into dry stock would they want the money for year 1 and 2 back ?!


  • #27
    blue5000
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,696 Mod ✭✭✭✭blue5000


    You just need the target amount of 4 and 5 star females of breeding age in the herd, you could possibly stay in with the right amount of 4 or 5 star heifers. Look a bit more into it before you opt out.

    If the seat's wet, sit on yer hat, a cool head is better than a wet ar5e.



  • #28
    sonnybill
    Registered Users Posts: 970 ✭✭✭sonnybill


    blue5000 wrote: »
    You just need the target amount of 4 and 5 star females of breeding age in the herd, you could possibly stay in with the right amount of 4 or 5 star heifers. Look a bit more into it before you opt out.

    Only working out permutations in my head, work and other commitments making dry cattle for 7 months of year to satisfy ANC look much more favourable . I thought you have to have 60% of reference no. available for genotyping


  • #29
    blue5000
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,696 Mod ✭✭✭✭blue5000


    sonnybill wrote: »
    Only working out permutations in my head, work and other commitments making dry cattle for 7 months of year to satisfy ANC look much more favourable . I thought you have to have 60% of reference no. available for genotyping

    Ya but if the 60% is 4 or 5 star heifers that you are fattening I think you could still be ok, not sure about only having them for 7 months though. Have a chat with your advisor, I don't have all the ins and outs of it in my head, but there is a loophole there where you can still qualify and have no su cows. I know some ppl are tagging males because all the females are already done, but I think that's different.

    If the seat's wet, sit on yer hat, a cool head is better than a wet ar5e.



  • #30
    sonnybill
    Registered Users Posts: 970 ✭✭✭sonnybill


    blue5000 wrote: »
    Ya but if the 60% is 4 or 5 star heifers that you are fattening I think you could still be ok, not sure about only having them for 7 months though. Have a chat with your advisor, I don't have all the ins and outs of it in my head, but there is a loophole there where you can still qualify and have no su cows. I know some ppl are tagging males because all the females are already done, but I think that's different.

    Yeah , ANC would be fine you can stock at 0.3lu per hectare for 7 consecutive months as opposed to maintaining 0.15lu for entire 12 months


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  • #31
    The man in red and black
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 668 ✭✭✭The man in red and black


    Looking at our cull list now the new eurostars are finally fully updated. Newer generations not adding up on the stars...herd average replacement rating will drop quite a bit if we cull the older girls with the 115-135e ratings. Have 12 in calf to Tombapik for CH replacements, please God all goes well and at least half are female!


  • #32
    croot
    Registered Users Posts: 571 ✭✭✭croot


    In the bgdp training scheme they said the figures for new calves were calculated by cow + bull / 2. Has this changed?

    I registered 4 new calves last week and when the Eurostar figures were updated none of them are what you'd think they would be. They range from 10 less to 5 more than the method above.


  • #33
    The man in red and black
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 668 ✭✭✭The man in red and black


    croot wrote: »
    In the bgdp training scheme they said the figures for new calves were calculated by cow + bull / 2. Has this changed?

    I registered 4 new calves last week and when the Eurostar figures were updated none of them are what you'd think they would be. They range from 10 less to 5 more than the method above.


    If one parent had higher reliability would that play a role?


  • #34
    croot
    Registered Users Posts: 571 ✭✭✭croot


    The man in red and black wrote: »
    If one parent had higher reliability would that play a role?
    I don't know. Could be that. I won't worry to much cause thankfully they are all above 120 at the moment


  • #35
    patsy_mccabe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,910 ✭✭✭✭patsy_mccabe


    Walking through the cows today filling out the Cow Milkability and Cow Docility survey. They went running around me in circles mad when they saw me with the sheet of paper. Gas, isn't it. Normally they wouldn't take a blind bit of notice of me. Anything strange and they get all excited.

    'If I ventured in the slipstream, Between the viaducts of your dream'



  • #36
    Hurling Hereford
    Registered Users Posts: 320 ✭✭Hurling Hereford


    patsy_mccabe wrote: »
    Walking through the cows today filling out the Cow Milkability and Cow Docility survey. They went running around me in circles mad when they saw me with the sheet of paper. Gas, isn't it. Normally they wouldn't take a blind bit of notice of me. Anything strange and they get all excited.
    Probably trying to show off their docility to you!


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  • #37
    TITANIUM.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,313 ✭✭✭TITANIUM.


    patsy_mccabe wrote: »
    Walking through the cows today filling out the Cow Milkability and Cow Docility survey. They went running around me in circles mad when they saw me with the sheet of paper. Gas, isn't it. Normally they wouldn't take a blind bit of notice of me. Anything strange and they get all excited.

    Do it all on the phone. Makes life allot easier


  • #38
    Hurling Hereford
    Registered Users Posts: 320 ✭✭Hurling Hereford


    The ignorance of some advisors when it comes to the BDGP is frightening. Was on a farm walk today, when the subject arose. An elderly planner giving a talk at it would want to read the terms & conditions of the programme. His knowledge of it could be written on the back of a postage stamp. Frightening stuff.

    Even more frightening is that poor suckers like you and I pay fools like him for giving us 'their perils of wisdom'.

    Only one cure for the likes of this, we must start reading the documentation that we are sent from the department and not be depending on eejits.


  • #39
    patsy_mccabe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,910 ✭✭✭✭patsy_mccabe


    TITANIUM. wrote: »
    Do it all on the phone. Makes life allot easier
    I like to fill in the form first and then input it all online. I do this so that I always have the same values (milk an docility) put in for the cows from year to year. It will come up the same then from year to year on their system. Probably doesn't really matter but at least I will be consistent.

    'If I ventured in the slipstream, Between the viaducts of your dream'



  • #40
    Future Farmer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 430 ✭✭Future Farmer


    The man in red and black wrote: »
    Looking at our cull list now the new eurostars are finally fully updated. Newer generations not adding up on the stars...herd average replacement rating will drop quite a bit if we cull the older girls with the 115-135e ratings. Have 12 in calf to Tombapik for CH replacements, please God all goes well and at least half are female!

    Wouldn't want to be putting on my eggs in one basket on a Charolais bull.

    Are you pedigree?


  • #41
    Hurling Hereford
    Registered Users Posts: 320 ✭✭Hurling Hereford


    Folks, an elderly neighbour of mine paid me a visit today, with a letter from the department. The letter stated that TWO advisors had billed the department for completing his carbon navigator.

    I know who actually did that C.N. for him because the same guy did mine. The only other 'advisor' that would have known his herd number, etc is a retired planner who used work for an organisation providing research, advisory and training services to agriculture industry.

    I hope this greedy 'advisor' does not get paid his €160 & is 'struck off' by the department, the chancer.


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  • #42
    The man in red and black
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 668 ✭✭✭The man in red and black


    Future Farmer wrote: »
    Wouldn't want to be putting on my eggs in one basket on a Charolais bull.

    Are you pedigree?

    No, my brother has a few pedigree CH heifers he's just gotten into but the fathers are all commercial. Would be better off with a different breed for replacements but he likes the look of white/grey animals :)
    They say the variation within a breed is as marked as across the breeds so fingers crossed in 2019 we have some CH heifers calving with more milk than usual!


  • #43
    Hurling Hereford
    Registered Users Posts: 320 ✭✭Hurling Hereford


    Have any of ye come across this since BDGP money started to be sent to farmers?

    The Mrs. was only in the door from work this evening, when an elderly neighbour arrived. He had phoned the dept about last years BDGP payment only to be told that because he had a BVD calf in 2015 he might not get paid his money.

    Was told by a fella in Portlaois that he should have tested this calf 20 days after its birth & have had its sample in a lab for testing. Your man in the dept told the neighbour it took him 30 days to do this with his pi positive calf and that he would have to put a very good case in writing if he wanted to receive a "single cent" of the suckler payment.

    Have any of ye encountered the same problem & what did ye do about it?


  • #44
    grassroot1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,524 ✭✭✭grassroot1


    I didnt do the training element of the scheme and my payment has been witheld (lost). Spoke to teagasc and they tell me 600 farmers have failed to meet this requirement. It now appears that the department may run courses again to allow this requirement to be filled. There will of course be penalties if you have to go this route.
    I was under the impression that when the IFA agreed to this scheme we would only lose the money related to which every requirement they were short, clearly this is not the case.


  • #45
    tanko
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,290 ✭✭✭tanko


    Got the letter about tagging animals for genotyping this year. The last of the cows and heifers to be done, half of animals for tagging are last years bull calves.
    The tags are going to be sent out in Feb and March.
    There's an option to defer selection of animals for tagging and printing of tags until April 02nd.


  • #46
    Bellview
    Registered Users Posts: 2,678 ✭✭✭Bellview


    I also just checked mine and 90 per cent bulls selected. Not sure wtf icbf are at as they are cow families that breed well but stars are low and they are ignoring these..I thought this was a maternal program and genotying was to help fix the reliability of the stars... I lose more faith in this every day as my view is that icbf are clueless...especially selecting all bulls


  • #47
    Limestone Cowboy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,541 ✭✭✭Limestone Cowboy


    tanko wrote: »
    Got the letter about tagging animals for genotyping this year. The last of the cows and heifers to be done, half of animals for tagging are last years bull calves.
    The tags are going to be sent out in Feb and March.
    There's an option to defer selection of animals for tagging and printing of tags until April 02nd.

    Got that aswell yesterday and deferred it until April. Don't think there was any bull calves on the list I got though.


  • #48
    tanko
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,290 ✭✭✭tanko


    Limestone Cowboy wrote: »
    Got that aswell yesterday and deferred it until April. Don't think there was any bull calves on the list I got though.

    I have to tag bullocks that were born last year as i've only a few cows left that haven't been done. Don't want to defer ordering the tags, just want to get it done asap. Should have plenty of heifers born this year for tagging next year hopefully.


  • #49
    bogman_bass
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,078 ✭✭✭bogman_bass


    Bellview wrote: »
    I also just checked mine and 90 per cent bulls selected. Not sure wtf icbf are at as they are cow families that breed well but stars are low and they are ignoring these..I thought this was a maternal program and genotying was to help fix the reliability of the stars... I lose more faith in this every day as my view is that icbf are clueless...especially selecting all bulls
    What do you mean 90% bulls selected?


  • #50
    croot
    Registered Users Posts: 571 ✭✭✭croot


    Hurling Hereford wrote: »
    Have any of ye come across this since BDGP money started to be sent to farmers?

    The Mrs. was only in the door from work this evening, when an elderly neighbour arrived. He had phoned the dept about last years BDGP payment only to be told that because he had a BVD calf in 2015 he might not get paid his money.

    Was told by a fella in Portlaois that he should have tested this calf 20 days after its birth & have had its sample in a lab for testing. Your man in the dept told the neighbour it took him 30 days to do this with his pi positive calf and that he would have to put a very good case in writing if he wanted to receive a "single cent" of the suckler payment.

    Have any of ye encountered the same problem & what did ye do about it?

    Did it take him 30 days to do the retest on a PI?


  • #51
    croot
    Registered Users Posts: 571 ✭✭✭croot


    Happy enough here with the ones selected for tagging. All female and some of the older cows I was curious about are on the list as well as young heifers


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