Some UK Muslims think “concentration camps” are close

The King of Moo · 16-12-2015 01:58PM

An individual making an exaggerated generalising statement because of his fears caused by the current geopolitical climate?

Thank the Maker he's the only one doing that!

Beefy78 · 16-12-2015 02:03PM

kettlehead wrote: »

You whacked in a jab about the yanks but Muslims in the US are as American as apple pie. They assimilate.

Hmmm this isn't true. There's plenty of issues with integration of the Muslim community in many parts of the US. Its precisely that fear which Donald Trump is latching onto and tends to be expressed by many of the same people who blame foreigners coming over for all of their problems and taking their jobs.

I get the underlying point and America has historically been very good at assimilating people from all over the World and making them 'Americans' but there's been a real sea-change in the past few years.

Beefy78 · 16-12-2015 02:10PM

JupiterKid wrote: »

Muilticulturalism has failed. Integration is the way forward.

That's not working out so well in France.

Irish Praetorian · 16-12-2015 02:24PM

asherbassad wrote: »

And if you took the time to learn about Muslim cultures and histories instead of just parrotting the juvenile line that they "beat women and gays" then you wouldn't make such stupid statements.

Why don't you indulge us with your knowledge on the issue then? I'm a gay man, can you suggest some parts of the Muslim world where I might obtain a gay marriage or civil partnership?

scamalert · 16-12-2015 02:26PM

I think trouble lies that people who come over from muslim countries to western ones dont integrate,all this stuff with religion obsessed,dress code that makes you think Halloween,no one restricts that if you want to go around dressed as clown-were past that stage.

But looking from their perspective,and beliefs why choose countries where almost every single law goes against ones beliefs.

for example just recently there was article where 70smth expat in saudi was caught making wine at home and received sentence of 150-actually its 350 now lashes :cool: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3270071/Saudis-hand-350-lashes-frail-British-grandfather-making-wine-Family-appeal-David-Cameron-intervene-police-bottles-car.html

and many more examples where westerners are jailed or sentenced for crappiest of stuff that here nobody would care.Yet muslims over in western world want to have everything their way,dress code,religion and be left to deal with situations in their own ways.

While Trumph is wackoo in many things he says,but there are couple points if refined what he says about muslim that would actually could get him elected.

Nodin · 16-12-2015 02:30PM

scamalert wrote: »

I think trouble lies that people who come over from muslim countries to western ones dont integrate,all this stuff with religion obsessed,dress code that makes you think Halloween,no one restricts that if you want to go around dressed as clown-were past that stage.

But looking from their perspective,and beliefs why choose countries where almost every single law goes against ones beliefs.

for example just recently there was article where 70smth expat in saudi was caught making wine at home and received sentence of 150-actually its 350 now lashes :cool: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3270071/Saudis-hand-350-lashes-frail-British-grandfather-making-wine-Family-appeal-David-Cameron-intervene-police-bottles-car.html

and many more examples where westerners are jailed or sentenced for crappiest of stuff that here nobody would care.Yet muslims over in western world want to have everything their way,dress code,religion and be left to deal with situations in their own ways.

While Trumph is wackoo in many things he says,but there are couple points if refined what he says about muslim that would actually could get him elected.

The terms "muslim" and "Saudi" are not interchangeable.

Do you suggest that we create a western versiobn of Saudi just to piss muslims in general off?

Sonics2k · 16-12-2015 02:37PM

I'm honestly baffled by a lot of the dismissive comments made here about the people in the video.

Here you have groups of British people, all of whom appear to have been born and raised in Britain talking about their current fears and experiences since the Paris attacks.

It's bizarre to claim there is no rise in hatred and fear towards Islam and Muslims when there blatantly has been. Hell, even this very forum has seen an increase in people speaking out against Islam.

Of course many Muslims have a fear of concentration camps, we've already got Trump speaking about them and a disgustingly large amount of people supporting him, even in Ireland. Hell, in the 1970s many Catholics in Ireland were put into camps, or the Japanese in the United States.

David Cameron did state that those who did not support the bombing of Syria are Isis sympathisers which is an extremely dangerous thing to say. People oppose the invasion because they're sick of war and meaningless deaths of innocent people.

It is completely understandable for your average everyday Muslim in Britain to have a level of fear due to the current hatred aimed at them. These are everyday people who are in Uni, school, doctors, flower shops and all that stuff that are suddenly coming under attack and abuse because of the actions of people who happen to share the same religion.

If you can't understand that, then you're pretty much lost as a human being.

The King of Moo · 16-12-2015 02:37PM

scamalert wrote: »

Yet muslims over in western world want to have everything their way,dress code,religion and be left to deal with situations in their own ways.

And with the Christians in the western world who shoot people at abortion clinics and picket soldiers' funerals, you can't walk down the street without bumping into a violent religious zealot!

scamalert · 16-12-2015 02:39PM

You miss the point,in EU specially the likes of UK laws are very soft on everybody.But still there are accepted laws to keep people from doing wrong stuff.

thus in europe be gay,have a drink,shake womans hand,express your opinion against government or law and no one will care.

Pull any similar stunt in any arabic countries,and hope they wont kill you before whole country will need to send mi5 team to rescue your a$$.

its clear they live by their book and beliefs that are beyond stone age old,and then come over to Europe to most of all places that have left such beliefs and crap many years ago.

Nodin · 16-12-2015 02:42PM

scamalert wrote: »

You miss the point,in(.............)ago.

Most muslims aren't Arab. I think its you that's missing the point.

The King of Moo · 16-12-2015 02:44PM

scamalert wrote: »

You miss the point,in EU specially the likes of UK laws are very soft on everybody.But still there are accepted laws to keep people from doing wrong stuff.

thus in europe be gay,have a drink,shake womans hand,express your opinion against government or law and no one will care.

Pull any similar stunt in any arabic countries,and hope they wont kill you before whole country will need to send mi5 team to rescue your a$$.

its clear they live by their book and beliefs that are beyond stone age old,and then come over to Europe to most of all places that have left such beliefs and crap many years ago.

Well maybe a lot of people in Europe are liberal, but there are also a lot of Christians here, and Christians hate gays and dont allow sex before marriage or abortion, and attack and kill people they disagree with!

Sonics2k · 16-12-2015 02:45PM

scamalert wrote: »

You miss the point,in EU specially the likes of UK laws are very soft on everybody.But still there are accepted laws to keep people from doing wrong stuff.

thus in europe be gay,have a drink,shake womans hand,express your opinion against government or law and no one will care.

Pull any similar stunt in any arabic countries,and hope they wont kill you before whole country will need to send mi5 team to rescue your a$$.

its clear they live by their book and beliefs that are beyond stone age old,and then come over to Europe to most of all places that have left such beliefs and crap many years ago.

Quite a large, if not most, UK Muslims were born in the UK. They are not necessarily Arab much like a Christian is not necessarily from France or Ireland.

There is literally no point in discussing Arabic countries in this conversation because it has nothing to do with this.

Irish Praetorian · 16-12-2015 02:50PM

The King of Moo wrote: »

Well maybe a lot of people in Europe are liberal, but there are also a lot of Christians here, and Christians hate gays and attack and kill people they disagree with!

I think the real problem is, when I take a fundamentalist Christian group to task for saying that gays should be either stoned or 'fixed' or shamed or whatever you can imagine, I get lauded. When I do the same for a group of Islamist (IE those who take Islam and demand a political version of it) extremists, I might get daubed as 'stoking Islamophobia' or 'abetting racism'. I think we will know that we don't have a problem any more when an Islamist speaker coming to make the argument for stone gays and adulterers, attracts the same kind of ire that a fundamentalist Christian preacher does.

Carlos Orange · 16-12-2015 02:57PM

Sonics2k wrote: »

Of course many Muslims have a fear of concentration camps, we've already got Trump speaking about them and a disgustingly large amount of people supporting him, even in Ireland. Hell, in the 1970s many Catholics in Ireland were put into camps, or the Japanese in the United States.

I think a couple of hundred people in Northern Ireland and about half of Japanese people in the US were interned. Neither were put in concentration camps as the term is understood since WW2. Ending Muslim immigration to the US isn't remotely like putting people in concentration camps either. I could maybe see house arrest without trial for Muslim extremists promoting Jihad so if you are one of them maybe you should be worried. Even then that isn't a concentration camp either.

kettlehead · 16-12-2015 03:04PM

Nodin wrote: »

Most muslims aren't Arab. I think its you that's missing the point.

Judging by his use of language, I'm guessing scam alert is Serbian?

Herb Powell · 16-12-2015 03:15PM

The hostility is there, sure wasn't a random muslim woman pushed onto the tracks on the London underground a few weeks ago?

Some people claim "oh you can't say this anymore..." yet continue to say whatever they like, day-in day-out, with zero consequence. It is not really an unpopular opinion anymore to say that muslims shouldn't be here. A minority opinion, perhaps, but it's a growing minority, and I can see how muslims would be unnerved.

I think it is extremely unwise to dismiss these fears, and they should be acknowledged as legitimate (albeit on the extreme side).

Log9 · 16-12-2015 03:22PM

kettlehead wrote: »

The yanks do it right. It does not matter what accent you speak with nor your ethnicity. Pay your taxes, obey the law, believe in the pursuit of happiness and you're one of us.

I lived over there, legally. One of my first weeks there and I was out for the few pints. Got chatting and was congratulated on "becoming an American." Can you imagine a recent immigrant being congratulated on becoming Irish/British/French etc.

Different way of thinking.

Absolutely does happen here!!

I've been out on nights out after friends of mine got Irish citizenship. They were getting hugs from random strangers in the pub and loads of teary eyed over emotional drinking going on!

Just because you've only ever experienced being abroad as an immigrant doesn't really give you much insight into how Irish people react to someone joining the club.

The Irish citizenship ceremony has added to the sense that it's a huge deal too. It's a very important thing that it is marked with a bit of pomp.

Also a Chinese born friend of mine voted here in the marriage referendum and it was her first big thing as an Irish citizen. She was hugely excited by it and got really involved in the campaign and has even taken up learning irish and digging into Irish history.

She framed her naturalisation cert along side shots of her at Patrick's Day ...

I think you're very much underestimating how people react to taking up Irish citizenship. It's a very big deal to a lot of people and it's about as emotionally involved as it gets for some people.

Sonics2k · 16-12-2015 04:01PM

psinno wrote: »

I think a couple of hundred people in Northern Ireland and about half of Japanese people in the US were interned. Neither were put in concentration camps as the term is understood since WW2. Ending Muslim immigration to the US isn't remotely like putting people in concentration camps either. I could maybe see house arrest without trial for Muslim extremists promoting Jihad so if you are one of them maybe you should be worried. Even then that isn't a concentration camp either.

Really?
Because an awful lot of Japanese people would say there is a very thin line between an internment camp and a concentration camp.

Of course stopping all Muslim immigration isn't the same as a concentration camp, I'm pretty sure I said nothing of the sort. However, when you're part of a group of people that have become the aim of mass hysteria and unfounded fear, it's very easy to reach conclusions and have fears toward your future.

As it says the in the video, you can see why some young Muslim kids are being lured in by extremist groups like Isis out of fear and being isolated in their own countries and communities.

Harry Palmr · 16-12-2015 04:04PM

Sonics2k wrote: »

As it says the in the video, you can see why some young Muslim kids are being lured in by extremist groups like Isis out of fear and being isolated in their own countries and communities.

Tis a pity those who think like that don't join in a bit more. A lot of the isolation is self imposed.

kettlehead · 16-12-2015 04:08PM

Log9 wrote: »

Absolutely does happen here!!

I've been out on nights out after friends of mine got Irish citizenship. They were getting hugs from random strangers in the pub and loads of teary eyed over emotional drinking going on!

Just because you've only ever experienced being abroad as an immigrant doesn't really give you much insight into how Irish people react to someone joining the club.

The Irish citizenship ceremony has added to the sense that it's a huge deal too. It's a very important thing that it is marked with a bit of pomp.

Also a Chinese born friend of mine voted here in the marriage referendum and it was her first big thing as an Irish citizen. She was hugely excited by it and got really involved in the campaign and has even taken up learning irish and digging into Irish history.

She framed her naturalisation cert along side shots of her at Patrick's Day ...

I think you're very much underestimating how people react to taking up Irish citizenship. It's a very big deal to a lot of people and it's about as emotionally involved as it gets for some people.

My missus has lived here for nine years. She will never "become Irish". Maybe if she was desperate for an EU passport then she would pay to "become Irish."

Your Chinese pal wanted that EU passport. It's an investment for non Europeans.

Log9 · 16-12-2015 04:29PM

kettlehead wrote: »

My missus has lived here for nine years. She will never "become Irish". Maybe if she was desperate for an EU passport then she would pay to "become Irish."

Your Chinese pal wanted that EU passport. It's an investment for non Europeans.

I'm not seeing your point really and clearly you're capable of mind-reading other people's motives.

She wanted to become Irish, she also had the option of taking UK citizenship as she'd spent quite a long time there but opted for the Irish one by choice. She happens to like the place and likes the way things work here in terms of all sorts of things. She's not all that desperate for any particular citizenship - lots of qualifications, highly employable could pretty much go anywhere without much issue.

We had a long chat about it and mostly it was because it's the polar opposite to China in a lot of ways - very open electoral system vs no electoral system, not very militaristic, very clean air, very laid back approach to dealing with things.

She picked Ireland because she's a huge fan of Thin Lizzy, U2, the Cranberries and (shudder) Enya...

She's absolutely zero intention of going back to China, considers Ireland home and is very happy with the place generally and hugely involved.

Your Mrs doesn't need to change citizenship unless she wants to vote here or stand for office etc.

That's entirely her prerogative. If I were living in say France long term, I probably would take out French citizenship because I wouldn't really like being allowed to live somewhere without fully participating. Not being able to vote / participate fully would annoy me so I would probably apply. No reason why not as long as I wouldn't have to shed my Irish citizenship too.

I know a few people of other EU nationalities who have opted to take out Irish citizenship just because they felt strongly about doing so if they're going to be here long term.

There's not much point in generalising about people's motives for doing so. Some people want an attachment to a place and full citizenship, some people just want to be able to live / work somewhere and don't care.

Each to their own, but you can't really apply one experience to everyone else.

kettlehead · 16-12-2015 04:43PM

She wanted to become Irish, she also had the option of taking UK citizenship as she'd spent quite a long time there but opted for the Irish one by choice.

You're talking bollocks.

Eoin247 · 16-12-2015 04:46PM

carlostj22 wrote: »

its no over-reaction, catholics were interned up north, why would it not happen in the mainland? there is a statement from Churchill jealous of germanys economic progress which basically said we should destroy that country. its just come out recently that the uk government ordered the assasination of catholics to stoke up tension.

thats exactly what the powers want - a right wing society. get rid of those 'idiot' hippy communists. keep the money coming in - for their famililes and future kids, of course. The irony is hilarious as the arab springs were to get rid of this type of system.
but we all know the dollar is basically backed up by middle eastern oil which is protected by the us army. hence the assasination of gaddafi and saddam who wanted to trade their oil in euros.

If i was muslim i would be pretty pissed off at the wests interference in middle eastern countries only to come here cos my gaff in the desert was bombed by a drone, possibly with half my family in it. Upon arrival im verbally abused by these spoilt greedy monkeys who wouldnt know a warzone if it hit them in the head.

A section of jewish religion states; screw ur fellow man over for everything u can get off him. terrorism and climate change....infinite problems because of capitalism, greed. thats all the media is talking about but nothing about the huge debt all governements are in with the jewish banks. and to think the big western propaganda machine that is hollywood has so many right wing jews behind it.

in other words ur all being screwed over and if ur thinking of ur childrens future, just think of the schools being bombed in yemen by us bombs supplied to saudi arabia, a left wing muslim counntry along with al-queda, taliban aand isis.

right wing westerners in cahoots with left wing muslims for their personal gain while the much more peaceful left wing westerners and right wing shia muslims are the victims.

This is one of the biggest loads of crap I've ever had the displeasure of reading. If I ever see a house completely wrapped in tin foil Ill know who lives there.

kettlehead · 16-12-2015 04:57PM

She picked Ireland because she's a huge fan of Thin Lizzy, U2, the Cranberries and (shudder) Enya...

Christ

Nodin · 16-12-2015 05:00PM

kettlehead wrote: »

She picked Ireland because she's a huge fan of Thin Lizzy, U2, the Cranberries and (shudder) Enya...

Christ

I used here a lot of this from foreign types, especially der Amerikaners. I presumed it was down to the easy availability of marijuana or something.

Log9 · 16-12-2015 05:04PM

kettlehead wrote: »

She wanted to become Irish, she also had the option of taking UK citizenship as she'd spent quite a long time there but opted for the Irish one by choice.

You're talking bollocks.

No, you're making rather sweeping and fairly insulting assumptions.
Really couldn't be arsed participating in this thread anymore.

kettlehead · 16-12-2015 05:08PM

Log9 wrote: »

No, you're making rather sweeping and fairly insulting assumptions.

Nope. I just know the naturalisation process in both Ireland and the UK and know that you're telling lies.

Nodin · 16-12-2015 05:10PM

I'll be back with me shell suit on to say calm down in a minute...

RustyNut · 16-12-2015 05:17PM

kettlehead wrote: »

Is there anywhere where Muslims are happy?

There is a club in Soho where saudi princes have been known to snort coke off strippers while drinking single malt whisky. The Muslims in that club are usually fairly happy.

ilkhanid · 16-12-2015 05:18PM

Sonics2k wrote: »

Because an awful lot of Japanese people would say there is a very thin line between an internment camp and a concentration camp. .

An interment camp is not a pleasant place, by any means, but it trivializes the term "concentration camp" to compare one to another. Concentration camps were places of terror, starvation and unrestrained brutality. If those Japanese people had seen what Allied prisoners had to endure in Japanese -not concentration-POW camps, it might have given them a sense of perspective.

Sonics2k wrote: »

As it says the in the video, you can see why some young Muslim kids are being lured in by extremist groups like Isis out of fear and being isolated in their own countries and communities.

Isn't this a bit chicken-and-egg? The reason this "hysteria" exists in the first place is because "some young Muslim kids...were... lured in by extremist groups" and the UK got 7/7 as a result.

Some UK Muslims think “concentration camps” are close

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