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NASRPC's exit of the Sport Coalition.

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    #62
    LB6
    Registered Users Posts: 1,717 ✭✭✭LB6


    If you did not know about the meetings, that is the fault of your club secretary. Everybody was informed.

    I, like you, haven't been on here in ages, but felt the need to interject on this post.

    Next year, (2 months away), which would only be 1 month behind when an EGM would be viable is not going to make much difference. Also you will get much more information at an AGM than you will at an EGM, as that's limited to the reason only that the EGM is requested. There is no other business discussed.

    If you hold your fire (pun intended), turn up in January, ask your questions, all of them, you'll get your answers.


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    #63
    habitformin
    Registered Users Posts: 143 ✭✭habitformin


    LB6 wrote: »
    If you did not know about the meetings, that is the fault of your club secretary. Everybody was informed.

    I, like you, haven't been on here in ages, but felt the need to interject on this post.

    Next year, (2 months away), which would only be 1 month behind when an EGM would be viable is not going to make much difference. Also you will get much more information at an AGM than you will at an EGM, as that's limited to the reason only that the EGM is requested. There is no other business discussed.

    If you hold your fire (pun intended), turn up in January, ask your questions, all of them, you'll get your answers.

    Lol that's grand except this as you well know won't go away .again egos have been bruised harm has been done but I believe in a quick fix.it stops the BoL lo xi n around which does more harm. If an EGM is called it will finish this for good.if not a statement should be issued with full disclosure at least people can then go to the meeting fully informed.after all what have the committee got to lose.if they are within their rights they have no fear,.let's hear it from them what in the name of God is going on.


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    #64
    habitformin
    Registered Users Posts: 143 ✭✭habitformin


    Clarity is not a lot to ask for .I'm really beginning to believe that they are actually trying to hide some harm done. If they are so clean cut in the right then they should come right out and tell us why.


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    #65
    habitformin
    Registered Users Posts: 143 ✭✭habitformin


    habitformin wrote: »
    Clarity is not a lot to ask for .I'm really beginning to believe that they are actually trying to hide some harm done. If they are so clean cut in the right then they should come right out and tell us why.

    Their silence is speaking volumes


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    #66
    badaj0z
    Registered Users Posts: 471 ✭✭badaj0z


    habitformin wrote: »
    All that is needed is a comprehensive letter to affiliated clubs from the committee clearly explaining their actions .ie.leaving the sc .expelling clubs. Plan forward . .

    You will note that none of the apologists who post on behalf of the committee, or the committee itself in it's recent release have addressed the 3 key questions at the heart of this, viz.,

    ---Why did the NASRPC committee break their agreement not to do solo runs at the DOJ/Minister?
    --- Why did they did not go back to the SC to explain themselves when they were found out?
    ----What was so compelling about the "Apprentice scheme" that it was worth sundering the coalition to attempt to get it adopted? This last one is the most puzzling. A similar scheme was mooted a while ago by the NASRPC committee and was soundly rejected by the shooting community at large.


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    #67
    badaj0z
    Registered Users Posts: 471 ✭✭badaj0z


    LB6 wrote: »
    There have been two information days, one at Hilltop ?

    Information day? The committee got soundly thrashed by the floor at that meeting and only the intervention of two sensible members of the shooting community got them another chance to put things right. Which they then blew by resigning having given an undertaking to make amends.


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    #68
    habitformin
    Registered Users Posts: 143 ✭✭habitformin


    badaj0z wrote: »
    You will note that none of the apologists who post on behalf of the committee, or the committee itself in it's recent release have addressed the 3 key questions at the heart of this, viz.,

    ---Why did the NASRPC committee break their agreement not to do solo runs at the DOJ/Minister?
    --- Why did they did not go back to the SC to explain themselves when they were found out?
    ----What was so compelling about the "Apprentice scheme" that it was worth sundering the coalition to attempt to get it adopted? This last one is the most puzzling. A similar scheme was mooted a while ago by the NASRPC committee and was soundly rejected by the shooting community at large.

    So is this the main reason we have lost the most effective representation we have had for a long time?
    is this why we are now pulling apart a brilliant sports coalition that did excellent work ? NASRPC included .
    Whoever is responsible for this has a lot to answer for .
    whoever it is should resign immediately or face being squarely dumped from any and all future representations.
    Is it two or more people or simply one misguided individual that did this
    We all make mistakes but to hide the mistake is an even greater deceit. Own up and move on.Right now we need to be United by Christmas that's what is needed.


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    #69
    cra
    Registered Users Posts: 101 ✭✭cra


    I was at the meeting at Hilltop, Michael Tope read out a statement on behalf of the committee regarding the issues they had with the Sports Coalition. He then opened it to the floor and it got quite heated, in the end as badaj0z says the intervention of two sensible members of the shooting community led to an agreement by the committee that they would go back into a room for face to face talks, no emails, no letters just face to face and sort out the differences. What happened, the committee did not do what the members asked, they sent an email which is exactly what they said they would not do.

    Why???

    That question and the ones that badaj0z highlighted are what needs to be answered not some smokescreen questions about rumours.


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    #70
    habitformin
    Registered Users Posts: 143 ✭✭habitformin


    cra wrote: »
    I was at the meeting at Hilltop, Michael Tope read out a statement on behalf of the committee regarding the issues they had with the Sports Coalition. He then opened it to the floor and it got quite heated, in the end as badaj0z says the intervention of two sensible members of the shooting community led to an agreement by the committee that they would go back into a room for face to face talks, no emails, no letters just face to face and sort out the differences. What happened, the committee did not do what the members asked, they sent an email which is exactly what they said they would not do.

    Why???

    That question and the ones that badaj0z highlighted are what needs to be answered not some smokescreen questions about rumours.

    Why and who ? And for what?
    That's what is hidden.


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    #71
    habitformin
    Registered Users Posts: 143 ✭✭habitformin


    habitformin wrote: »
    Why and who ? And for what?
    That's what is hidden.

    Otherwise we wouldn't be here. If there's nothing to hide then spit it out. Prove the people you purport to represent right or wrong .
    Explain to us why we should have confidence in your representation.


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    #72
    habitformin
    Registered Users Posts: 143 ✭✭habitformin


    I just hope badaj0z is right about the EGM it seems to be the only way now.


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    #73
    garrettod
    Registered Users Posts: 2,426 ✭✭✭garrettod


    Hi,

    Are the individuals who are raising the various questions here (and perhaps in particular, those who were not at one of the recent meetings referred to earlier in this thread), also sending these questions to NASRPC and if so, what responses are being received ?

    Thanks,

    G.



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    #74
    NicholasF
    Registered Users Posts: 13 ✭NicholasF


    Luckily there are people who have been at the different meetings, and when the EGM is called, which should be soon, they will be able to field the questions and sort out this mess.

    And hold those individuals accountable for there actions, if it is deemed they have acted improperly.
    The NASRPC work for the membership

    It is my hope that the integrity of the NASRPC can be re-established and will be involved in meaningful talks and put forward there experience and understanding of what would help there members.

    In the meantime we in our club are working on some fundamental questions under different titles, where, we hope to develop a document to be presented to the SSC and on to the FCP for consideration.
    In in it we talk about a number of things which we hope will be taken on board from a shooters's perspective.

    We are not getting side tracked or distracted, as that has been an old strategy played out many times before.....

    We have been there done that

    We can all get back to the talks proper, and give our needed input to the requirements which we would like to see legislated for in shooting sports.

    NicholasF


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    #75
    badaj0z
    Registered Users Posts: 471 ✭✭badaj0z


    All you readers of this thread will be aware that a battle is in progress between the NASRPC committee and a number of clubs , who form a majority of the membership. The field of battle is the constitution which is usual in such disputes .One of the problems is that the committee is not abiding by the constitution on their web site. They say it has been changed but do not show the "new" one or offer any proof of how it was changed. But in reality this should not matter. Take a step back and you have to ask why is this committee hanging on? They know that they took a course of action which has turned the majority of their members against them but still they want to stay in power. Why? If you were in their shoes, what would you do? Resign with a little bit of honour or fight to the bitter end, even if it means dragging down your club, your association and your sport?

    I pondered on this for a while and had another look at their recent statement and there was the answer, staring me in the face in this statement:

    They said about the decision to leave the SC:

    " The NASRPC executive committee did not ask the clubs permission to join the Sports Coalition, and therefore did not seek their permission to leave it."

    My recollection of serving on club and sports committees is that you are there to serve the members not the other way round. This statement reveals the arrogance at the root of this problem.
    I ask all NASRPC club members to think hard about this and decide whether they want a committee with this attitude to run their affairs. I know I do not which is why I am seeking a change.


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    #76
    habitformin
    Registered Users Posts: 143 ✭✭habitformin


    garrettod wrote: »
    Hi,

    Are the individuals who are raising the various questions here (and perhaps in particular, those who were not at one of the recent meetings referred to earlier in this thread), also sending these questions to NASRPC and if so, what responses are being received ?

    Yes and no reply


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    #77
    habitformin
    Registered Users Posts: 143 ✭✭habitformin


    badaj0z wrote: »
    All you readers of this thread will be aware that a battle is in progress between the NASRPC committee and a number of clubs , who form a majority of the membership. The field of battle is the constitution which is usual in such disputes .One of the problems is that the committee is not abiding by the constitution on their web site. They say it has been changed but do not show the "new" one or offer any proof of how it was changed. But in reality this should not matter. Take a step back and you have to ask why is this committee hanging on? They know that they took a course of action which has turned the majority of their members against them but still they want to stay in power. Why? If you were in their shoes, what would you do? Resign with a little bit of honour or fight to the bitter end, even if it means dragging down your club, your association and your sport?

    I pondered on this for a while and had another look at their recent statement and there was the answer, staring me in the face in this statement:

    They said about the decision to leave the SC:

    " The NASRPC executive committee did not ask the clubs permission to join the Sports Coalition, and therefore did not seek their permission to leave it."

    My recollection of serving on club and sports committees is that you are there to serve the members not the other way round. This statement reveals the arrogance at the root of this problem.
    I ask all NASRPC club members to think hard about this and decide whether they want a committee with this attitude to run their affairs. I know I do not which is why I am seeking a change.

    badaj0z that is how I feel too that is the whole problem in a nutshell. Blatant egotistical arrogance.
    We give them the power to represent us .I for one will never attend an NASRPC shoot while this committee is still in power. It's time to pull the plug I think.


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    #78
    habitformin
    Registered Users Posts: 143 ✭✭habitformin


    NicholasF wrote: »
    Luckily there are people who have been at the different meetings, and when the EGM is called, which should be soon, they will be able to field the questions and sort out this mess.

    And hold those individuals accountable for there actions, if it is deemed they have acted improperly.
    The NASRPC work for the membership

    It is my hope that the integrity of the NASRPC can be re-established and will be involved in meaningful talks and put forward there experience and understanding of what would help there members.

    In the meantime we in our club are working on some fundamental questions under different titles, where, we hope to develop a document to be presented to the SSC and on to the FCP for consideration.
    In in it we talk about a number of things which we hope will be taken on board from a shooters's perspective.

    We are not getting side tracked or distracted, as that has been an old strategy played out many times before.....

    We have been there done that

    We can all get back to the talks proper, and give our needed input to the requirements which we would like to see legislated for in shooting sports.

    NicholasF

    Yes . You are right this is but a side show . Very good point .


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    #79
    Boxer1
    Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭Boxer1


    I have been following this thread with a lot of interest. A few points in my opinion we have missed The most important being that the NASRPC Is an association of member clubs. The associations committee is elected every year and charged with taking care of our sport and the associations functional daily needs. The committee can not in my opinion under any circumstance make the decisions they have made without first communicating with the member clubs. The decisions that were made were not for the committee to make alone, these decisions were and are bigger than any committee. Now we have a split in our association we can not deny it, caused by I believe the associations committees actions. The current officers of the association I believe are acting on their own for quite some time. These same officers tried in the past to negotiate with the A.G.S. and were mauled, some of them I believe had restrictions imposed on their F.C. when renewing. God help us when they try to negotiate with professionals. The clubs obviously have had enough and hence the call for an E.G.M. some people seem to think an E.G.M. and an A.G.M. are the same, they are quite the opposite.
    At an A.G.M. when it comes to voting a vote may in certain circumstances be opened to the floor which is totally acceptable if all in attendance agree.
    An E.G.M. on the other hand has a specific purpose or agenda and only allows for ONE vote per club in attendance the vote can not be opened to the floor. This prevents actions like rent a mob. That is how an honourable and democratic association of clubs conducts their business at an E.G.M.
    The current associations committee would have us all believe fairy tales about how great they are and how poorly they have been treated by the S.C.
    I believe we would still be on a downward slope if we did not have the S.C. It was through unity we were taken seriously.
    This deflection of responsibility and complete disregard for the future of our sport by the NASRPC current committee leads me and a lot of other shooting enthusiasts to believe they have something to hide and it runs deep. Prove us all wrong call the E.G.M. and clear the smoke .


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    #80
    habitformin
    Registered Users Posts: 143 ✭✭habitformin


    Boxer1 wrote: »
    I have been following this thread with a lot of interest. A few points in my opinion we have missed The most important being that the NASRPC Is an association of member clubs. The associations committee is elected every year and charged with taking care of our sport and the associations functional daily needs. The committee can not in my opinion under any circumstance make the decisions they have made without first communicating with the member clubs. The decisions that were made were not for the committee to make alone, these decisions were and are bigger than any committee. Now we have a split in our association we can not deny it, caused by I believe the associations committees actions. The current officers of the association I believe are acting on their own for quite some time. These same officers tried in the past to negotiate with the A.G.S. and were mauled, some of them I believe had restrictions imposed on their F.C. when renewing. God help us when they try to negotiate with professionals. The clubs obviously have had enough and hence the call for an E.G.M. some people seem to think an E.G.M. and an A.G.M. are the same, they are quite the opposite.
    At an A.G.M. when it comes to voting a vote may in certain circumstances be opened to the floor which is totally acceptable if all in attendance agree.
    An E.G.M. on the other hand has a specific purpose or agenda and only allows for ONE vote per club in attendance the vote can not be opened to the floor. This prevents actions like rent a mob. That is how an honourable and democratic association of clubs conducts their business at an E.G.M.
    The current associations committee would have us all believe fairy tales about how great they are and how poorly they have been treated by the S.C.
    I believe we would still be on a downward slope if we did not have the S.C. It was through unity we were taken seriously.
    This deflection of responsibility and complete disregard for the future of our sport by the NASRPC current committee leads me and a lot of other shooting enthusiasts to believe they have something to hide and it runs deep. Prove us all wrong call the E.G.M. and clear the smoke .

    What I don't understand is how come a supposedly bunch of volunteers don't get it when they are not wanted anymore. Fair play to all the effort put in in the past but when you are done then go away. Why are they resisting so defiantly? This behavior makes no sense at all. Retire gracefully and let someone else take up the mantle. Go back to enjoying the sport you want to manage. Like no one will forget this carry on.I would prefer to be remembered for positive action for good work done than this mess we have now. Do this committee think they own shooting in Ireland?


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    #81
    habitformin
    Registered Users Posts: 143 ✭✭habitformin


    Was it something I said lol.


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    #82
    Boxer1
    Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭Boxer1


    Nothing you said my friend, i have been very busy on the work front. Well since we last exchanged our views or opinions nothing much has changed. Nothing will happen for another few weeks either some of the committee are in Germany at the international gallery shoot being held there. There's another point of fact the Gallery squad representing Ireland in Germany this weekend is not the correct squad. While most of the squad members qualified fair and square and are in Germany. Going into the last national qualifier here in Ireland the powers that be decided to change the scoring template to ensure they them selves made the squad. When questioned about this, reluctantly they agreed and decided to sort this problem out when they got home. Another absolute disgrace and a complete disregard for their fellow shooting enthusiasts.
    But as we all know this committee dose not need our permission to do anything.


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    #83
    habitformin
    Registered Users Posts: 143 ✭✭habitformin


    well i heard today its possible for an EGM real soon . Thats what is needed.


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    #84
    habitformin
    Registered Users Posts: 143 ✭✭habitformin


    I hope the majority of people see what is going on now .like yourself and myself Boxer1 .if they do injustices and cronysim will stop as soon as this EGM is called.
    very busy here at work too. just that time of year.


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    #85
    ntipptop
    Registered Users Posts: 78 ✭✭ntipptop


    Boxer1 wrote: »
    Nothing you said my friend, i have been very busy on the work front. Well since we last exchanged our views or opinions nothing much has changed. Nothing will happen for another few weeks either some of the committee are in Germany at the international gallery shoot being held there. There's another point of fact the Gallery squad representing Ireland in Germany this weekend is not the correct squad. While most of the squad members qualified fair and square and are in Germany. Going into the last national qualifier here in Ireland the powers that be decided to change the scoring template to ensure they them selves made the squad. When questioned about this, reluctantly they agreed and decided to sort this problem out when they got home. Another absolute disgrace and a complete disregard for their fellow shooting enthusiasts.
    But as we all know this committee dose not need our permission to do anything.

    jeesuz the more i hear about "This committee" the more wrong doings are being shown up!!!!
    How dare they change the scoring to suit themselves, Fair play to all who secured their place by honest shooting and scoring, to those, hold your heads held high, to those that "cheated" shame on you
    Christ above ,this committee cant stay after all this, can they?????

    If they "Fixed the scoring" what else is Fixed ????

    And by the way i will be at any agm/egm to ask questions and to stand up for my sport, our sport!!!!


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    #86
    cra
    Registered Users Posts: 101 ✭✭cra


    The longer this debacle goes on the more damning the information that comes out. I have been reliably informed that Jeff McCann the assistant secretary of the NASRPC has resigned his position due to the actions of the current committee. I believe that Mr McCann who was not in attendance at the committee meeting when it was decided to expel An Riocht from the NASRPC asked some awkward questions of the committee and was pretty much told to butt out and mind his own business. Why shouldn't he as part of a committee tasked with making such decisions ask questions about the harsh treatment of a club over some misdemeanor, surely that is part of his job to represent the member clubs.
    Why has the committee behaved in this manner, this all started over the committee's decision to withdraw from the Sports Coalition then among other things a club disagrees with them so they expel them, when a committee member voices a different opinion he is told to pipe down.
    The current committee at this stage have to ask themselves "is it worth it" whatever they see in this deabcle, whatever reason they have to treat clubs and individuals like this, well is it


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    #87
    habitformin
    Registered Users Posts: 143 ✭✭habitformin


    Okay so we are all singing off the same hymn sheet. lovely.

    No word from our beloved chairman of NASRPC.
    Nothing on the EU From the committee of the NASRPC (or maybe I am wrong and don't know where to look please feel free to re direct me thank you)
    Grizzly is right about this where the hell are they . ? If an EGM is called by the clubs that they represent why hasn't a date been announced? what bolloxing around are this committee at now.?
    If they do not stick to their own constitution how can they hide behind it now.
    this has turned into a pure JOKE.
    They have turned into a JOKE.
    They have said nothing about this EU thing and nothing about addressing their current situation .
    When a united front is needed most we get division from people that agreed to act in a united group on behalf of the clubs that give them their jobs, our heroes are hiding under the bed ... again lovely.

    Banning any type of firearm at all is wrong.( except full select fire as A. they're not accurate.B not needed C. couldn't keep ammunition drawn to them.) Capping any firearms is wrong, stopping one person having a fire arm when another can have it is wrong. Properly vetting people for their equipment is the way to go. Not half arsed giving it to one and refusing another from even applying for it.
    It simply isn't fair.( and don't care about statutory instruments saying so.) As far s I am aware the Irish constitution allows the powers to act on us in some respects but we have other rights that no one can ever take from us and a statutory instrument is only a piece pf paper. No man or woman should be able to impose his personal prejudice or will on the private people with their private property.
    That is what ex politician Dermot Ahearne did when he capped Center fire hand guns and tried to remove the right of law abiding people from taking part in legitimate shooting sports. After all he said "he had personal experience of the tragedy that guns can bring" I still don't know what he was on about.
    its more people we want in our sport not less . otherwise it will die out and the people who are trying to stop us like Dermot Ahearne know this only too well.

    I'M THINKING OF MOVING TO SYRIA WHERE AT LEAST I KNOW WHERE I STAND !!!!


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    #88
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,758 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    So much bitching in this thread, it's sickening.

    Has everybody on this forum written to the EU to let them know what we think of these dumbass proposals?

    Has everybody signed the change.org petition?

    Has everybody on this forum written to all the Irish MEP's?

    Because if you haven't, shut the fcuk up and start writing to them now.

    Sorry if I'm being a bit blunt here, but I'm sick listening to people bicker.

    When our sport is safe, then fight away among yourselves.


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    #89
    garrettod
    Registered Users Posts: 2,426 ✭✭✭garrettod


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    ....When our sport is safe, then fight away among yourselves.

    What was it Brendan Behan said about a split ?

    .... he has proven right, time and time again and it looks like we will never learn !

    Thanks,

    G.



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    #90
    badaj0z
    Registered Users Posts: 471 ✭✭badaj0z


    The macro view is very important and I have signed the petition and written to the EU as have many of the readers and contributors to this thread but just because a major injustice is threatened does not mean we have to cow tow to another injustice already inflicted. People can do two things at the same time you know so the spate of invective just seen on this thread is unjustified. We will all work to minimise the EU threat but we will also continue to push for justice and fair dealing at home. What say you NASRPC committee?


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    #91
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,463 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    Two things people:
    • Firstly we need to mind the language. Things get heated and we understand people are passionate on both sides of the argument, but insults and name calling will not be tolerated. We don't want to have to start editing or deleting posts as it'll disrupt the thread and could cause loss off context in the flow of debate.
    • Secondly while there is always some sort of meandering in a threads topic we really don't want to see multiple thread turn into the one topic. Namely the proposed EU changes. There is a thread on the topic here and we understand that some crossover will happen however if a thread turns into a "duplicate" of another the Mods normally merge them or move posts. Doing this can cause problems as we cannot split up individual posts and place the relevant bits into the appropriate threads. If we move the entire post it can disrupt the flow of the thread we took it from. So please try to stay as much on topic as possible.


    Thanks.
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