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Can't get any experience or work as a Junior Java Developer

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  • 28-11-2015 10:39pm
    #1
    quinnd6
    Registered Users Posts: 1,551 ✭✭✭


    I've been looking for a job as junior java developer or junior php developer and I can get absolutely nothing.
    I have a software engineering degree and the professional developer ceritification in MySql and the professional programmer ceritifcation in Java that I got while out of work and it seems to make zero difference at all infact it's completely useless.
    I've been out of work since 2008 so I did those java and mysql courses and studied at home.
    I only have 9 months experience working at a company in Dublin as a Junior Java Developer and after that was over I could get nothing.
    I can't get a job or an internship.
    Every job asks for 2 or more years experience and I'm too old for graduate roles and they all require a fricking 2.1 grade anyway.

    Does anyone have any suggestions on what the heck I could do to get some experience?

    If I don't get something soon I'm thinking of packing it all in and doing a minimum paid job in a shop. I hate having wasted all that time and studying on it and giving up and getting nothing from it.


«1345

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    #2
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,687 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    Am I right in thinking it's seven years since you were in a role related to your qualifications?


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    #3
    ScottStorm
    Registered Users Posts: 364 ✭✭ScottStorm


    Have you got a portfolio of work?

    Have you any contacts who could help prep you for programming interviews?


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    #4
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,687 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    How long since you got your degree? and If it's 2008 is there any issue that has prevented you from working in that time?


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    #5
    doolox
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,350 ✭✭✭doolox


    I was in a similar situation, I had a level 7 qual in Electronics and a level 6 diploma in IT all terribly out dated and little or no up to date experience etc so not wanted. I can get much more from working free lance in a completely unrelated area of work making my own way and working my own ( much shorter) hours in something I LOVE doing.

    Too many people are jumping on the technology/programming hi tech bandwagon without realising how difficult, demanding, time consuming and low paid it really is.

    Think sport, art or music. SOME people, the very lucky few , make good money at it but most people scrape by with a bare living wage if they get any pay at all.

    The trick with technology jobs seems to be to research a certain area of science or general knowledge and then to turn that body of scarce and arcane knowledge into a computer application without your competitors stealing it and copying it before you can turn it into money, either by securing and selling the rights to the program by licence or outright sale. This is the hard part of making money and is not for everybody.

    Great coders do not necessarily make big money. Experts on contract law and monetisation do.


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    #6
    quinnd6
    Registered Users Posts: 1,551 ✭✭✭quinnd6


    I got my degree in 2006.
    I worked for 9 months from 2007 to 2008.
    I went to a good few interviews in 2008 and couldn't manage to get any work out of it. The last interview I did I think was in 2012.
    I don't know what was stopping me I suppose I was a bit nervous at interview stage.
    I don't have a portfolio.
    My certs aren't that old I have a Java SE7 Professional Programmer cert from last year and MySql 5.0 certification from 2012.
    I apply for jobs and hear nothing back.
    I might get the rare call from an agency but it never results in anything.
    It's looking kinda grim.
    Apart from applying for any internships I see I really don't know what else I can do.
    Someone suggested helping out on open source projects online but that's more about fixing bugs, I don't think that would get me the kind of experience necessary to get a job.
    I'm open to suggestions.


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    #7
    Slydice
    Registered Users Posts: 10,501 ✭✭✭✭Slydice


    I'm very unexperienced to help but one thing jumps to mind:
    - find out what recruiting companies help find java developers work in companies that do java developing
    - go to the recruiters
    - ask them if they can get you a job
    - whether or not they can, ask them for advice on getting java jobs


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    #8
    Nutrient
    Registered Users Posts: 2,328 ✭✭✭Nutrient


    Majority of applicants fail to show bodies of work, people that are passionate programmers are just checking one of many prerequisites to these jobs, employers get many of these applications which very little difference between each other.

    You may be too old for Graduate position but you're to able for internship roles.

    If you haven't already, Get a github account and add your work there, it is a great resource that not only shows you've an understanding of using not just repositories but always allows you to display you work with ease.

    Final thing I can say is this; everyone I know thats had success landing a job in programming was always, ALWAYS programming for their projects, always busy, remain diligent and Im sure you will have no problem getting a job.


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    #9
    Tom Dunne
    Registered Users Posts: 23,212 ✭✭✭✭Tom Dunne


    It seems extremely unusual for a Java programmer to be out of work, such is the demand, so I wonder are there broader issues with your application?

    Have you had somebody review your CV for formatting, language, grammar and structure? Have you written cover letters and had them looked at also?


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    #10
    SimonTemplar
    Registered Users Posts: 2,815 ✭✭✭SimonTemplar


    doolox wrote: »
    I was in a similar situation, I had a level 7 qual in Electronics and a level 6 diploma in IT all terribly out dated and little or no up to date experience etc so not wanted. I can get much more from working free lance in a completely unrelated area of work making my own way and working my own ( much shorter) hours in something I LOVE doing.

    Too many people are jumping on the technology/programming hi tech bandwagon without realising how difficult, demanding, time consuming and low paid it really is.

    Think sport, art or music. SOME people, the very lucky few , make good money at it but most people scrape by with a bare living wage if they get any pay at all.

    The trick with technology jobs seems to be to research a certain area of science or general knowledge and then to turn that body of scarce and arcane knowledge into a computer application without your competitors stealing it and copying it before you can turn it into money, either by securing and selling the rights to the program by licence or outright sale. This is the hard part of making money and is not for everybody.

    Great coders do not necessarily make big money. Experts on contract law and monetisation do.

    I think you are painting a very negative picture of a development career. Developers aren't super rich but I wouldn't say they are low paid.


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    #11
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,687 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    quinnd6 wrote: »
    I got my degree in 2006.
    I worked for 9 months from 2007 to 2008.
    I went to a good few interviews in 2008 and couldn't manage to get any work out of it. The last interview I did I think was in 2012.
    I don't know what was stopping me I suppose I was a bit nervous at interview stage.
    I don't have a portfolio.
    My certs aren't that old I have a Java SE7 Professional Programmer cert from last year and MySql 5.0 certification from 2012.
    I apply for jobs and hear nothing back.
    I might get the rare call from an agency but it never results in anything.
    It's looking kinda grim.
    Apart from applying for any internships I see I really don't know what else I can do.
    Someone suggested helping out on open source projects online but that's more about fixing bugs, I don't think that would get me the kind of experience necessary to get a job.
    I'm open to suggestions.

    What have you worked at since 2008?


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    #12
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,768 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    quinnd6 wrote: »
    Someone suggested helping out on open source projects online but that's more about fixing bugs, I don't think that would get me the kind of experience necessary to get a job.
    I'm open to suggestions.

    Fixing bugs is what most developers spend most of their time doing. Especially junior ones with almost no experience!


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    #13
    Musicman2000
    Registered Users Posts: 1,461 ✭✭✭Musicman2000


    doolox wrote: »
    I was in a similar situation, I had a level 7 qual in Electronics and a level 6 diploma in IT all terribly out dated and little or no up to date experience etc so not wanted. I can get much more from working free lance in a completely unrelated area of work making my own way and working my own ( much shorter) hours in something I LOVE doing.

    Too many people are jumping on the technology/programming hi tech bandwagon without realising how difficult, demanding, time consuming and low paid it really is.

    Think sport, art or music. SOME people, the very lucky few , make good money at it but most people scrape by with a bare living wage if they get any pay at all.

    The trick with technology jobs seems to be to research a certain area of science or general knowledge and then to turn that body of scarce and arcane knowledge into a computer application without your competitors stealing it and copying it before you can turn it into money, either by securing and selling the rights to the program by licence or outright sale. This is the hard part of making money and is not for everybody.

    Great coders do not necessarily make big money. Experts on contract law and monetisation do.

    This is a good post. I was in the same position found it very hard to get my foot in the door. You hear every day companies crying out to fill IT roles. In my honest opinion this is complete rubbish maybe in some niche areas and development roles. I had to move to the UK and found it much easier to get work.

    I still keep an eye on the Irish Recruitment sites most days. The majority of IT positions are in Dublin with a scattering around Cork and Galway. Dublin is not an option for a lot of people as the cost of rent is crazy.

    The way its going the market is getting to flooded with IT graduates making it a lot harder to get a position. Maybe you could look in the UK.
    IT over in the UK is really classed as trade and they offer fantastic apprenticeships and its great experience unlike someone coming out with a degree that is pretty much a waste of 4 years as I found out.


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    #14
    my friend
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,129 ✭✭✭my friend


    Stheno wrote: »
    What have you worked at since 2008?

    Hey man, it's only 7 years like


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    #15
    Tar.Aldarion
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,090 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tar.Aldarion


    OP you aren't too old to start a grad role, I know of people in their 40s that gave, and its what you should apply for . having scjp is good, have a look at your CV and interview skills with a recruitment agency.
    SimonTemplar wrote: »
    I think you are painting a very negative picture of a development career. Developers aren't super rich but I wouldn't say they are low paid.

    We aren't low paid, he was just comparing to better paid professions here. There is a big difference between starting on 25-35k here and grads starting on 100-180k + stock in the more popular part of the US.


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    #16
    TrustedApple
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,678 ✭✭✭TrustedApple


    Hay i know no grads who are getting 25K + a year in IT none of my friends are and i am not myself i had to take crap wages just to get my leg in the door people think its that easy to get a job i wish people will change there CV to just out of college for a IT job and see how hard it is. I have had friends who have not even got a interview since they left college and loads don't even work in IT as they could not get a job in it !!!.


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    #17
    quinnd6
    Registered Users Posts: 1,551 ✭✭✭quinnd6


    I'd be willing to take less than 25k a year and travel up and down to Dublin.
    I think I'll apply for some graduate roles so.
    I'll try applying for more internships aswell.
    My CV and Cover Letter are fine.
    They have been looked at.
    I also have a github account where I add whatever code I do.

    Does anyone know of any good open source java projects I could try contributing to in the mean time?
    I've done all the OCJP7 material in Java and have studied some Spring and Hibernate so if I could find an open source project requiring that kind of coding it would be something I could try in the meantime.


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    #18
    JonDoe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 503 ✭✭✭JonDoe


    I quit IT in 2008. there's an over supply of talent out here, if a company needs someone specialized they'll hire an Asian (and no I'm not racist, you can ask my flatmates from Kerala) and get 5 years out of em at 25k before they get citizenship and have a choice to move on. Sad state of affairs but true, we're in a global depression don't know if they'll ever be undersupply again. I'm not going to wreck my head programming if there's no pay day. 20 years ago, it was a goldmine for all but now the majority off programmers would be better off stacking shelves once you consider you don't get paid for overtime by most employers. Then when you're 40 it's downsize time.


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    #19
    ixus
    Registered Users Posts: 2,436 ✭✭✭ixus


    You need to answer this question:

    What have you been doing since 2008?

    You don't necessarily have to tell users here though, it might help. There is a huge gap in your CV and any recruiter, HR or anyone reviewing CV's will instantly ask that question to themselves. You get moved to the bottom of the pile, almost by default.

    You're talking about travelling up to Dublin for sub 25k. Where are you coming from? Take someone who's recruitings perspective: here's a CV from a lad living in Leitrim or wherever who hasn't worked for 7 years and doesn't fill the gaps in CV. Next.

    Sounds like you didn't get a 2.1 either. Next.

    This sounds like how you are presenting yourself and why you are getting passed on.

    Would this be accurate?

    Are you actually any good at java or other languages? What's your interest level, knowledge of the current trends etc?

    These arebthe things i would be looking for in a CV or cover letter and likely how a person viewing a black and white piece of paper with words on it searching for a certain criteria.


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    #20
    youcancallmeal
    Registered Users Posts: 7,994 ✭✭✭youcancallmeal


    I think you're leaving out some crucial piece of information? I've been working in the IT industry for a long time and I can't think of anyone I know at any level from entry right up to architect who were any more than a couple of months looking for a job in the past couple of years.


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    #21
    Musicman2000
    Registered Users Posts: 1,461 ✭✭✭Musicman2000


    youcancallmeal wrote: »
    I think you're leaving out some crucial piece of information? I've been working in the IT industry for a long time and I can't think of anyone I know at any level from entry right up to architect who were any more than a couple of months looking for a job in the past couple of years.

    Depends on experience really. Its not as easy as it was. In Dublin its probably handy enough to get something its a different ball game outside Dublin.


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    #22
    quinnd6
    Registered Users Posts: 1,551 ✭✭✭quinnd6


    I'm not leaving out an effing thing.
    I studied for the certifications because I couldn't get any work.
    It's a crap situation to be in but that's how it is.
    I can't turn back time.


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    #23
    youcancallmeal
    Registered Users Posts: 7,994 ✭✭✭youcancallmeal


    Musicman2000 wrote: »
    Depends on experience really. Its not as easy as it was. In Dublin its probably handy enough to get something its a different ball game outside Dublin.

    Yes perhaps location is the key, seems to be booming in Dublin the last few years


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    #24
    TrustedApple
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,678 ✭✭✭TrustedApple


    youcancallmeal wrote: »
    Yes perhaps location is the key, seems to be booming in Dublin the last few years

    Well i was looking at moving to Dublin and i have all the certs and a degree and i got like 1 interview in 7 months up there :rolleyes:


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    #25
    quinnd6
    Registered Users Posts: 1,551 ✭✭✭quinnd6


    I've been looking specifically at Dublin and it's far from booming for someone like me.
    If no one gives you the opportunity to get experience how the flip are you supposed to get experience.


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    #26
    TrustedApple
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,678 ✭✭✭TrustedApple


    quinnd6 wrote: »
    I've been looking specifically at Dublin and it's far from booming for someone like me.

    I know how you fell there is a course that one of my friends did in Dublin for App dev with Java if your signing on its about 6 months long could you look at doing something like that foe the time being and then apply for jobs as thats how he got a job in the end ?.


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    #27
    quinnd6
    Registered Users Posts: 1,551 ✭✭✭quinnd6


    Does it have any practical experience?


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    #28
    La Fenetre
    Registered Users Posts: 736 ✭✭✭La Fenetre


    Maybe set your sights on a tech support job, and get your foot in the door that way ? See what you like in that job, and pursue that.

    Everyone who does IT in college for some reason wants to be a 'developer'. There's far more to IT than just development jobs, which are very over rated, and very over subscribed by job seekers, yet in reality, not better paid, r no more fulfilling than any other IT job. If you like development, you can still do your own on the side as a hobby (and probably enjoy it far more than if it were your day job) while working in one of the many other areas of IT.


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    #29
    Eugene Norman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,191 ✭✭✭Eugene Norman


    It's all about experience. You are competing not for grad jobs then experience matters. If I were a Java dev, I'd get a portfolio of apps on Google Play and then apply for a mobile job. Money's pretty good there.


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    #30
    TrustedApple
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,678 ✭✭✭TrustedApple


    quinnd6 wrote: »
    Does it have any practical experience?

    Yes it does you be working as part of a team for 2 apps and will be able to use them to get a job

    http://www.devstream.io

    Thats it there so have a look might be of some help for you.


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    #31
    quinnd6
    Registered Users Posts: 1,551 ✭✭✭quinnd6


    Thanks but 6705 euros fee yikes.


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