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Garda hits man with baton NAMA

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Comments

  • #692
    TheDoc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,140 ✭✭✭✭TheDoc


    If I've said it once, I've said it a hundred times.

    Guardaí coming out of training in the last 5-8 years simply arn't equipped to deal with confrontation and crowd control properly. This is one of a long list of incidents where it shows a complete lack of situation control from Guardaí, and also a worrying trait of violent, short tempered police officers.

    Obviously the likes of this, in populated crowds make the headlines, but there is frequently cases, on a weekly basis, where Guardaí are failing to control situations properly, resoting to using physical force, and simply igniting situations.

    Only a few weeks ago I witnessed, outside my house, two relatively young Guards totally lose the run of themselves. One used a totally inappropriate use of force for the situation and brained a fella with a baton. When a friend of the man justifiably became enraged, the second Guard was challenging him to a fight. The man restrained himself pretty well whilst this aggressive little Guard lost his cool roaring in his face demanding they have a fight. Was a ridiculous situation. The Guard then turned to me to get aggressive and told him I live the house hes trying to fight people outside and said a few more choice words about what I thought of him and what I'd witnessed.

    On one hand I've massive sympathy for Guardaí with the situations they deal with, the pressure they are under etc. On the flipside, its a job you go into with both eyes open and knowing whats coming, and I've no sympathy for power tripping, short tempered aggressive Guards who resort to physical aggression to deal with a situation. Noticable amount of country Guardaí started in my area in the last while, and its well known in the area of how aggressive they can become. And then management in the police wonder why their reputation with communities is dwindling to nothing.

    Definitly in my area it's a noticable change from being friendly and social with Guardaí to now treating them as "the police" where you dont want to talk to them or be spotted near them


  • #693
    cython
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,869 ✭✭✭cython


    johann johannson wrote: »
    Had the sheriff not cried wolf, like a 'premiership footballer' he wouldn't need to have been asked his details. This can go on and on and on.

    Actually, could that be considered wasting garda resources? :rolleyes:

    I fail to see the relevance as to how someone not stating their details can lead to another, unrelated innocent man getting a beating.

    Care to elaborate on how the sheriff "cried wolf"? As stated (and with which you agreed), the absence of a charge at this time does not prove that there was no assault if that is what you're suggesting?

    Ultimately the release has no bearing on the failure to cooperate with Garda inquiries, and regardless of what people thought they may or may not have known regarding an alleged assault, giving incorrect legal advice to a person of interest, and shouting at the Gardai is not an appropriate way to act. The arrest was, IMHO, warranted, and nobody (on either side) exactly covered themselves in glory from that point on.


  • #694
    Pedro K
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,226 ✭✭✭Pedro K


    johann johannson wrote: »
    Had the sheriff not cried wolf, like a 'premiership footballer' he wouldn't need to have been asked his details. This can go on and on and on.

    Actually, could that be considered wasting garda resources? :rolleyes:

    I fail to see the relevance as to how someone not stating their details can lead to another, unrelated innocent man getting a beating.

    the other man wasn't unrelated. He stopped being unrelated when he tried to step in, whether it was to talk or not, and interfere with the arrest.

    Edit: not to mention, had he given his details, there wouldn't have been a need for arrest, and as such wouldn't have been a need for your father to try talk to the Garda regarding the arrest.

    Regarding the sherrif, if the Gardai then suspected that it was a false allegation, he could be arrested and charged with same, but the fact is an allegation was made, and the Gardai had to follow it up.


  • #695
    lawlolawl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,678 ✭✭✭lawlolawl


    TheDoc wrote: »
    If I've said it once, I've said it a hundred times.

    Guardaí coming out of training in the last 5-8 years simply arn't equipped to deal with confrontation and crowd control properly. This is one of a long list of incidents where it shows a complete lack of situation control from Guardaí, and also a worrying trait of violent, short tempered police officers.

    Obviously the likes of this, in populated crowds make the headlines, but there is frequently cases, on a weekly basis, where Guardaí are failing to control situations properly, resoting to using physical force, and simply igniting situations.

    Only a few weeks ago I witnessed, outside my house, two relatively young Guards totally lose the run of themselves. One used a totally inappropriate use of force for the situation and brained a fella with a baton. When a friend of the man justifiably became enraged, the second Guard was challenging him to a fight. The man restrained himself pretty well whilst this aggressive little Guard lost his cool roaring in his face demanding they have a fight. Was a ridiculous situation. The Guard then turned to me to get aggressive and told him I live the house hes trying to fight people outside and said a few more choice words about what I thought of him and what I'd witnessed.

    On one hand I've massive sympathy for Guardaí with the situations they deal with, the pressure they are under etc. On the flipside, its a job you go into with both eyes open and knowing whats coming, and I've no sympathy for power tripping, short tempered aggressive Guards who resort to physical aggression to deal with a situation. Noticable amount of country Guardaí started in my area in the last while, and its well known in the area of how aggressive they can become. And then management in the police wonder why their reputation with communities is dwindling to nothing.

    Definitly in my area it's a noticable change from being friendly and social with Guardaí to now treating them as "the police" where you dont want to talk to them or be spotted near them

    Jesus dude, what sort of crap area do you live in that this happens outside your house :eek:


  • #696
    johann johannson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 55 ✭✭johann johannson


    cython wrote: »
    Care to elaborate on how the sheriff "cried wolf"? As stated (and with which you agreed), the absence of a charge at this time does not prove that there was no assault if that is what you're suggesting?

    Ultimately the release has no bearing on the failure to cooperate with Garda inquiries, and regardless of what people thought they may or may not have known regarding an alleged assault, giving incorrect legal advice to a person of interest, and shouting at the Gardai is not an appropriate way to act. The arrest was, IMHO, warranted, and nobody (on either side) exactly covered themselves in glory from that point on.


    Well, am I wrong to suggest that someone who was released without charge is not subject to charges? I'm not a legal expert or a garda, can you enlighten me on the situation?

    My point in this was that people were looking to attribute blame to the person who was arrested as the main instigator in my father being struck with a baton. If this person has no blame, who do they blame next? It was clear and intended sarcasm. Where to they stop blaming people for what happened?

    If the arrested person was released because he didn't do anything, do we blame the sheriff for crying wolf?
    If the sheriff didn't cry wolf, do we blame the hotel for hosting the auction?
    If the hotel accepted a fee for the auction, do we blame the auctioneers?
    If the auctioneers are paid by NAMA, do we blame them?

    It goes on and on and on.

    People are trying to blame the wrong person here, that's my point.

    Plus, I've had no dispute on the facts the garda appears in all major incidents of that video.

    From what I've heard, from people that were actually there, that garda walked into the room, done a little jig, bowed and waved to the crowd and blew a few kisses, is that cause for instigation?

    It appears that he could have actually gone there looking to 'crack a few skulls' and 'teach these protesters a thing or two'? But then, that's my opinion, I'm sure we all know someone that gets riled up before an event, not necessarily a garda.
    Pedro K wrote: »
    the other man wasn't unrelated. He stopped being unrelated when he tried to step in, whether it was to talk or not, and interfere with the arrest.

    The arrest was already made. Is my father now a time traveller somehow that he can manipulate events in the past? :rolleyes:
    lawlolawl wrote: »
    Jesus dude, what sort of crap area do you live in that this happens outside your house :eek:


    Gorey?


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  • #697
    Pedro K
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,226 ✭✭✭Pedro K


    johann johannson wrote: »



    The arrest was already made. Is my father now a time traveller somehow that he can manipulate events in the past? :rolleyes:
    Now you're just being facetious. The man had been told he was being placed under arrest. The arrest was by no means done and dusted, as there was clearly still a physical struggle happening to get the man away from the crowd.


  • #698
    johann johannson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 55 ✭✭johann johannson


    Pedro K wrote: »
    Now you're just being facetious. The man had been told he was being placed under arrest. The arrest was by no means done and dusted, as there was clearly still a physical struggle happening to get the man away from the crowd.

    The man was away from the crowd and actually outside when the garda took out the baton. If the arrested person was the concern, then why didn't my dad just push by the garda to get to the arrested man?


  • #699
    TheDoc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,140 ✭✭✭✭TheDoc


    lawlolawl wrote: »
    Jesus dude, what sort of crap area do you live in that this happens outside your house :eek:

    I live in an area I consider pretty fine to be honest. I live in Swords.

    There are a few rented houses around the area that seem to be populated with people who have drug and drink fueled house parties into the early morning, but in general I feel safe in the area(having grown up nearby) and while it's a predominantly foreign community (I'm Irish) its pretty friendly etc. The parties are relatively few and far between and in general while their is the odd knacker romeo and juliet tragedy where someone has done the dirt on another, it's literally a rare occurrence.

    But that is kinda the point I'm making. There is a clear trend of Guardaí being that bit more aggressive and resorting to physical aggression to deal with situations. There was a good stretch in my area where you kinda knew the local Guards, they were pretty well respected and dealt with situations a lot more "old school". You know the type, the stereotypical white haired sergeant who'd give the old "ah here whats this messin lads". Even the new Guards that would come onto the scene would be well equipped socially in dealing with teenagers in a non confrontational way and they'd actively try build some rapport.

    I'm sure they are still out there obviously. Just a noticable trend in the area, and some other areas where I've family and friends who have said they notice the same thing.

    I'm not fan of protesters, I've been very much in support of Guardaí who have been slated relating water protesting, but in this specific instance, really saw nothing to indicate why that man got smacked with a baton.

    What I would say, and literally as the only possible defence explanation, Guardaí are typically being outnumbered drastically in these scenarios. And obviously adrenaline starts to pump, and understandably there is some fear there that maybe the crowd will get out of control, and there is a handful of Guardaí to deal with the situation. But that is where cool and calm heads are required, as not to ignite the situation.

    although what is also obvious in all these cases is that there is a very clear atmosphere in a lot of situations of protesters trying to goad and bait Gardaí into doing something, so they can record it and post it online to gain some exposure and cry victim. I know a video from a protest in Claire Hall this year came across online totally different to what actually happened on the day.

    People playing tinfoil hat solicitor, goading and baiting Guardaí tying to tip them over the edge. Being totally incapable of organising a meaningful protest, and targetting the totally incorrect people. There is a certain responsibility of all this incidents, on those organising the protests and rallies. (And in most cases, utterly horrendously)


  • #700
    Pedro K
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,226 ✭✭✭Pedro K


    johann johannson wrote: »
    The man was away from the crowd and actually outside when the garda took out the baton. If the arrested person was the concern, then why didn't my dad just push by the garda to get to the arrested man?
    That's in stark contrast to what you originally said.

    johann johannson wrote: »
    I can tell you exactly what happened.

    The first guy at the start was arrested. As he was doing so, he was dragged to the ground by the gardai.

    This is where the elderly man comes in. He was trying to help the arrested person to his feet. ......

    For those in any doubt, check the other video going around, the one from the other angle, that shows exactly what I described.


  • #701
    johann johannson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 55 ✭✭johann johannson


    Pedro K wrote: »
    That's in stark contrast to what you originally said.

    It is, and I've watched the video numerous times since that, where my opinion of the video becomes clearer.

    Could you maybe try back up what you have said first?


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  • #702
    Clive Bisquette
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 266 ✭✭Clive Bisquette


    Galway K9 wrote: »

    1 ) Serious     Threat = No
    2) ISOLATED = errmmmm No

    Look Sham...Surrounded by a baying angry mob = Threat.

    Small number of gardai / large number of large folks who look like they lay into a good few brekkie rolls...yeah sham...that's isolated in this posters book.

    Somebody had to get a pop of a baton to quieten them.....


  • #703
    cython
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,869 ✭✭✭cython


    johann johannson wrote: »
    Well, am I wrong to suggest that someone who was released without charge is not subject to charges? I'm not a legal expert or a garda, can you enlighten me on the situation?
    Look, you've already agreed that it is possible that there is a file being prepared for the DPP and that he may still be charged. You can't have it every way by conceding that, while also suggesting this is definitive proof of innocence.

    The point I am making, however, is that the individual's innocence regarding any assault is utterly irrelevant in the context of the arrest, and thus the release and its circumstances are also irrelevant in that context. He was arrested as a direct result of failing to answer the Gardai's questions regarding his name and address, and we can't say whether or not he would have been arrested in connection with an assault had he copped on and answered the lawfully posed questions.
    johann johannson wrote: »
    My point in this was that people were looking to attribute blame to the person who was arrested as the main instigator in my father being struck with a baton. If this person has no blame, who do they blame next? It was clear and intended sarcasm. Where to they stop blaming people for what happened?
    It really wasn't that clear, to be blunt.
    johann johannson wrote: »
    If the arrested person was released because he didn't do anything, do we blame the sheriff for crying wolf?
    If the sheriff didn't cry wolf, do we blame the hotel for hosting the auction?
    If the hotel accepted a fee for the auction, do we blame the auctioneers?
    If the auctioneers are paid by NAMA, do we blame them?

    See above. The arrest was not for assault, but for refusing to provide a name and address to the Gardai when requested in relation to an alleged assault. The "blame" for the arrest rests with the arrested party, and the would-be-legal counsel around him when he refused to provide his name and address. Simple as.
    johann johannson wrote: »
    It goes on and on and on.

    People are trying to blame the wrong person here, that's my point.


    Plus, I've had no dispute on the facts the garda appears in all major incidents of that video.
    You mean in a video that follows him around the room as the point of focus, the Gardai is involved in most of what happens? Funny that...... Nah, not really.
    johann johannson wrote: »
    From what I've heard, from people that were actually there, that garda walked into the room, done a little jig, bowed and waved to the crowd and blew a few kisses, is that cause for instigation?
    You finally managed clear sarcasm, congratulations!
    johann johannson wrote: »
    It appears that he could have actually gone there looking to 'crack a few skulls' and 'teach these protesters a thing or two'? But then, that's my opinion, I'm sure we all know someone that gets riled up before an event, not necessarily a garda.



    The arrest was already made. Is my father now a time traveller somehow that he can manipulate events in the past? :rolleyes:




    Gorey?


  • #704
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,847 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    johann johannson wrote: »
    Well, am I wrong to suggest that someone who was released without charge is not subject to charges? I'm not a legal expert or a garda, can you enlighten me on the situation?

    Isn't it normal procedure to release suspects without charge, pending direction of the DPP. Wasn't this the case with the Jobstown protesters?

    @ Cyton, was there not an assault before the cameras started rolling?


  • #705
    cython
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,869 ✭✭✭cython


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Isn't it normal procedure to release suspects without charge, pending direction of the DPP. Wasn't this the case with the Jobstown protesters?

    @ Cyton, was there not an assault before the cameras started rolling?

    There were certainly allegations of an assault. Obviously I'm not in a position to comment on the veracity of the allegations, but once those allegations were made, and the Gardai requested the arrestee's name and address in connection with same, he was legally obliged to provide them. The failure to do so (as opposed to suspicion of assault) was ultimately the cause for the arrest.


  • #706
    The Sun King
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 488 ✭✭The Sun King


    Still not sure why the poster needs to consult the video to get the story straight. Being related to the injured party would make it very easy to find out exactly what happened. Unless his father told him a series of events that the video doesn't back up.


  • #707
    Gatling
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    The Sun King wrote: »
    Still not sure why the poster needs to consult the video to get the story straight. Being related to the injured party would make it very easy to find out exactly what happened. Unless his father told him a series of events that the video doesn't back up.

    Or isn't related to any of the involved at all
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




  • #708
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    johann johannson wrote: »
    The man was away from the crowd and actually outside when the garda took out the baton. If the arrested person was the concern, then why didn't my dad just push by the garda to get to the arrested man?

    That looked like exactly what your father was trying to do.
    TheDoc wrote: »
    But that is kinda the point I'm making. There is a clear trend of Guardaí being that bit more aggressive and resorting to physical aggression to deal with situations. There was a good stretch in my area where you kinda knew the local Guards, they were pretty well respected and dealt with situations a lot more "old school". You know the type, the stereotypical white haired sergeant who'd give the old "ah here whats this messin lads". Even the new Guards that would come onto the scene would be well equipped socially in dealing with teenagers in a non confrontational way and they'd actively try build some rapport.

    The problem is that there is a flip side to that. You no longer have teenagers that will listen to that old grey haired sergeant. Instead they put him in hospital. That's why we have 1000 Garda injuries per year. Maybe you are right and those Gardaí were unnecessarily aggressive. It happens. Or maybe they had just found the lad who violently attacked someone around the corner. These days you just can't guess which it is.
    johann johannson wrote: »
    Well, am I wrong to suggest that someone who was released without charge is not subject to charges? I'm not a legal expert or a garda, can you enlighten me on the situation?

    Yes you are wrong.


  • #709
    gctest50
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,534 ✭✭✭gctest50


    Originally Posted by johann johannson viewpost.gif
    .......then why didn't my dad just push by the garda to get to the arrested man?

    it looks like he was trying sneakily to push the garda to provoke a reaction

    then all the crowd would see is the garda sorting it out


    just before the garda draws his baton, he seems to be pushing away for all he is worth :


    http://s22.postimg.org/nvrq4uuu9/image.jpg

    http://s22.postimg.org/ag4pfemch/image.jpg

    http://s22.postimg.org/6l1bcu36p/image.jpg


  • #710
    Busted Flat.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,003 ✭✭✭Busted Flat.


    gctest50 wrote: »
    it looks like he was trying sneakily to push the garda to provoke a reaction

    then all the crowd would see is the garda sorting it out


    just before the garda draws his baton, he seems to be pushing away for all he is worth :


    http://s22.postimg.org/nvrq4uuu9/image.jpg

    http://s22.postimg.org/ag4pfemch/image.jpg

    http://s22.postimg.org/6l1bcu36p/image.jpg

    Great imagination why did you not post the one picture.


  • #711
    gctest50
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,534 ✭✭✭gctest50


    Busted Flat. wrote: »
    Great imagination why did you not post the one picture.

    because the three pictures are different

    tis one of them new fangled moving picture things


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  • #712
    Muahahaha
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,832 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    Can't belive this thread is nearing 50 pages and people are still trying to make out that there's nothing to see here. The Garda lost the plot momentarily in a fit of rage. He was under a lot of pressure and he snapped.

    Whats worse is all this is that in 2014 it was revealed that more than half of Gardai are not adequately trained in the use of a baton. Judging by the video evidence posted on this case I'd say it is an odds on bet that this Garda was not trained to use it and what we're seeing is the consequences, namely out of control policing. I'd ascribe more blame on Garda management in the Park as I would on that individual Garda. It's senior Garda managements job to ensure that Gardai on the street are adequately trained to do their job. Clearly this hasn't been the case.

    http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/gardai-open-to-civil-action-over-lack-of-baton-training-265666.html
    Gardaí face the risk of a raft of civil actions as members are not properly trained to use batons and pepper sprays.
    The Association of Garda Sergeants and Inspectors said that about 6,000 gardaí are not certified to use either their asp batons or their pepper spray.
    It opened gardaí to a corporate risk of being sued, said AGSI president Tim Galvin.

    So going by the above if it is found that the Garda in question wasn't adequately trained in the use of his baton then the man hit by it has a legitimate civil action against the State.


  • #713
    Clive Bisquette
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 266 ✭✭Clive Bisquette


    Can't belive this thread is nearing 50 pages and people are still trying to make out that there's nothing to see here. The Garda lost the plot momentarily in a fit of rage. He was under a lot of pressure and he snapped.

    Not at all my friend ..it's pretty plain to me ...the auld lad was making a nuisance of himself..and got a carefully aimed blow to the shoulder..text book training stuff.

    Look at the video again ?


  • #714
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    Muahahaha wrote: »
    Whats worse is all this is that in 2014 it was revealed that more than half of Gardai are not adequately trained in the use of a baton.

    That's not what it actually says. You need to do the training to get the baton. What the article you linked says is that many Gardaí weren't given refresher courses in the use of the baton. They are still trained and the rules are still the same. The re-certification is an internal organisation goal.


  • #715
    _davidsmith_
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 171 ✭✭_davidsmith_


    And the cycle starts again lol


  • #716
    Faugheen
    Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    It's plain as day to me that if the first bloke had just given his details and stopped talking ****e about having to 'quote the section' (which, as far as I know, they don't have to do until they get to the station if an arrest is made) then none of this happens.

    Did the Garda lose his cool? I think he did, but the aul' fella isn't innocent either.

    And another thing, can someone remind these people who harp on about their right to protest that the state can limit their rights, and if they don't believe me then they can ask any solicitor.


  • #717
    Clive Bisquette
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 266 ✭✭Clive Bisquette


    Faugheen wrote: »
    It's plain as day to me that if the first bloke had just given his details and stopped talking ****e about having to 'quote the section' (which, as far as I know, they don't have to do until they get to the station if an arrest is made) then none of this happens.

    Did the Garda lose his cool? I think he did, but the aul' fella isn't innocent either.

    And another thing, can someone remind these people who harp on about their right to protest that the state can limit their rights, and if they don't believe me then they can ask any solicitor.

    Too right my friend ...if the aul' lad didn't want to be hit because he was an aul' lad then he should not have been in the forefront of the mob right in the Garda's face !

    The fact that the Guard landed a precision blow to the aul' lads shoulder proves that he was in control.

    An out of control blow would have split the aul' fellas skull ....


  • #718
    Dyr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Clive Bisquette wrote: »
    Too right my friend ...if the aul' lad didn't want to be hit because he was an aul' lad then he should not have been in the forefront of the mob right in the Garda's face !

    The fact that the Guard landed a precision blow to the aul' lads shoulder proves that he was in control.

    An out of control blow would have split the aul' fellas skull ....

    I'll tell ye now anyone who thinks that lad was landing a precision blow has never fought with a stick :D

    I'll bet it contravened his own ASP training too


  • #719
    Muahahaha
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,832 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    Little CuChulainn wrote: »
    That's not what it actually says. You need to do the training to get the baton. What the article you linked says is that many Gardaí weren't given refresher courses in the use of the baton. They are still trained and the rules are still the same. The re-certification is an internal organisation goal.

    Which is why I said that Gardai are not adequately trained rather than saying not trained at all.

    You might be able to tell us about the training in the use of a baton- are Gardai trained to draw and strike without warning or is best practice to draw it, warn the person and then react only if completely necessary? In the video the Garda just whips it out with no warning at all. As batons can be lethal weapons i would have thought that a warning before actually using it would be appropriate- anytime I've seen them used in crowd control situations in the UK the police have them drawn ready for use rather than just drawing them and going battering in. I'm doubting that Gardai are trained the way the Garda in the video used it which perhaps suggests that he is one of the 6,000 odd Gardai who need a refresher course in how to use their baton.


  • #720
    pablo128
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,210 ✭✭✭pablo128


    Muahahaha wrote: »
    Which is why I said that Gardai are not adequately trained rather than saying not trained at all.

    You might be able to tell us about the training in the use of a baton- are Gardai trained to draw and strike without warning or is best practice to draw it, warn the person and then react only if completely necessary? In the video the Garda just whips it out with no warning at all. As batons can be lethal weapons i would have thought that a warning before actually using it would be appropriate- anytime I've seen them used in crowd control situations in the UK the police have them drawn ready for use rather than just drawing them and going battering in. I'm doubting that Gardai are trained the way the Garda in the video used it which perhaps suggests that he is one of the 6,000 odd Gardai who need a refresher course in how to use their baton.
    You probably won't get an answer from that poster. I've asked him why the garda in the video didn't have a crack at the large gentleman shoving him back, just after he lays into the older guy. I'm still waiting on an answer days later.


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  • #721
    BorneTobyWilde
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,566 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    In all fairness if you extend one index finger and push a Garda on the shoulder with it
    you will be don't for assault.
    But a garda can swing a bat to the back of an old mans head and all is fine in the world.


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