johann johannson wrote: » Had the sheriff not cried wolf, like a 'premiership footballer' he wouldn't need to have been asked his details. This can go on and on and on. Actually, could that be considered wasting garda resources? :rolleyes: I fail to see the relevance as to how someone not stating their details can lead to another, unrelated innocent man getting a beating.
TheDoc wrote: » If I've said it once, I've said it a hundred times. Guardaí coming out of training in the last 5-8 years simply arn't equipped to deal with confrontation and crowd control properly. This is one of a long list of incidents where it shows a complete lack of situation control from Guardaí, and also a worrying trait of violent, short tempered police officers. Obviously the likes of this, in populated crowds make the headlines, but there is frequently cases, on a weekly basis, where Guardaí are failing to control situations properly, resoting to using physical force, and simply igniting situations. Only a few weeks ago I witnessed, outside my house, two relatively young Guards totally lose the run of themselves. One used a totally inappropriate use of force for the situation and brained a fella with a baton. When a friend of the man justifiably became enraged, the second Guard was challenging him to a fight. The man restrained himself pretty well whilst this aggressive little Guard lost his cool roaring in his face demanding they have a fight. Was a ridiculous situation. The Guard then turned to me to get aggressive and told him I live the house hes trying to fight people outside and said a few more choice words about what I thought of him and what I'd witnessed. On one hand I've massive sympathy for Guardaí with the situations they deal with, the pressure they are under etc. On the flipside, its a job you go into with both eyes open and knowing whats coming, and I've no sympathy for power tripping, short tempered aggressive Guards who resort to physical aggression to deal with a situation. Noticable amount of country Guardaí started in my area in the last while, and its well known in the area of how aggressive they can become. And then management in the police wonder why their reputation with communities is dwindling to nothing. Definitly in my area it's a noticable change from being friendly and social with Guardaí to now treating them as "the police" where you dont want to talk to them or be spotted near them
cython wrote: » Care to elaborate on how the sheriff "cried wolf"? As stated (and with which you agreed), the absence of a charge at this time does not prove that there was no assault if that is what you're suggesting? Ultimately the release has no bearing on the failure to cooperate with Garda inquiries, and regardless of what people thought they may or may not have known regarding an alleged assault, giving incorrect legal advice to a person of interest, and shouting at the Gardai is not an appropriate way to act. The arrest was, IMHO, warranted, and nobody (on either side) exactly covered themselves in glory from that point on.
Pedro K wrote: » the other man wasn't unrelated. He stopped being unrelated when he tried to step in, whether it was to talk or not, and interfere with the arrest.
lawlolawl wrote: » Jesus dude, what sort of crap area do you live in that this happens outside your house :eek:
johann johannson wrote: » The arrest was already made. Is my father now a time traveller somehow that he can manipulate events in the past? :rolleyes:
Pedro K wrote: » Now you're just being facetious. The man had been told he was being placed under arrest. The arrest was by no means done and dusted, as there was clearly still a physical struggle happening to get the man away from the crowd.
johann johannson wrote: » The man was away from the crowd and actually outside when the garda took out the baton. If the arrested person was the concern, then why didn't my dad just push by the garda to get to the arrested man?
johann johannson wrote: » I can tell you exactly what happened. The first guy at the start was arrested. As he was doing so, he was dragged to the ground by the gardai.This is where the elderly man comes in. He was trying to help the arrested person to his feet. ...... For those in any doubt, check the other video going around, the one from the other angle, that shows exactly what I described.
Pedro K wrote: » That's in stark contrast to what you originally said.
Galway K9 wrote: » 1 ) Serious Threat = No 2) ISOLATED = errmmmm No
johann johannson wrote: » Well, am I wrong to suggest that someone who was released without charge is not subject to charges? I'm not a legal expert or a garda, can you enlighten me on the situation?
johann johannson wrote: » My point in this was that people were looking to attribute blame to the person who was arrested as the main instigator in my father being struck with a baton. If this person has no blame, who do they blame next? It was clear and intended sarcasm. Where to they stop blaming people for what happened?
johann johannson wrote: » If the arrested person was released because he didn't do anything, do we blame the sheriff for crying wolf? If the sheriff didn't cry wolf, do we blame the hotel for hosting the auction? If the hotel accepted a fee for the auction, do we blame the auctioneers? If the auctioneers are paid by NAMA, do we blame them?
johann johannson wrote: » It goes on and on and on. People are trying to blame the wrong person here, that's my point. Plus, I've had no dispute on the facts the garda appears in all major incidents of that video.
johann johannson wrote: » From what I've heard, from people that were actually there, that garda walked into the room, done a little jig, bowed and waved to the crowd and blew a few kisses, is that cause for instigation?
johann johannson wrote: » It appears that he could have actually gone there looking to 'crack a few skulls' and 'teach these protesters a thing or two'? But then, that's my opinion, I'm sure we all know someone that gets riled up before an event, not necessarily a garda. The arrest was already made. Is my father now a time traveller somehow that he can manipulate events in the past? :rolleyes: Gorey?
Deleted User wrote: » Isn't it normal procedure to release suspects without charge, pending direction of the DPP. Wasn't this the case with the Jobstown protesters? @ Cyton, was there not an assault before the cameras started rolling?
The Sun King wrote: » Still not sure why the poster needs to consult the video to get the story straight. Being related to the injured party would make it very easy to find out exactly what happened. Unless his father told him a series of events that the video doesn't back up.
TheDoc wrote: » But that is kinda the point I'm making. There is a clear trend of Guardaí being that bit more aggressive and resorting to physical aggression to deal with situations. There was a good stretch in my area where you kinda knew the local Guards, they were pretty well respected and dealt with situations a lot more "old school". You know the type, the stereotypical white haired sergeant who'd give the old "ah here whats this messin lads". Even the new Guards that would come onto the scene would be well equipped socially in dealing with teenagers in a non confrontational way and they'd actively try build some rapport.
Originally Posted by johann johannson .......then why didn't my dad just push by the garda to get to the arrested man?
gctest50 wrote: » it looks like he was trying sneakily to push the garda to provoke a reaction then all the crowd would see is the garda sorting it outjust before the garda draws his baton, he seems to be pushing away for all he is worth :http://s22.postimg.org/nvrq4uuu9/image.jpghttp://s22.postimg.org/ag4pfemch/image.jpghttp://s22.postimg.org/6l1bcu36p/image.jpg
Busted Flat. wrote: » Great imagination why did you not post the one picture.
Gardaí face the risk of a raft of civil actions as members are not properly trained to use batons and pepper sprays. The Association of Garda Sergeants and Inspectors said that about 6,000 gardaí are not certified to use either their asp batons or their pepper spray. It opened gardaí to a corporate risk of being sued, said AGSI president Tim Galvin.
Can't belive this thread is nearing 50 pages and people are still trying to make out that there's nothing to see here. The Garda lost the plot momentarily in a fit of rage. He was under a lot of pressure and he snapped.
Muahahaha wrote: » Whats worse is all this is that in 2014 it was revealed that more than half of Gardai are not adequately trained in the use of a baton.
Faugheen wrote: » It's plain as day to me that if the first bloke had just given his details and stopped talking ****e about having to 'quote the section' (which, as far as I know, they don't have to do until they get to the station if an arrest is made) then none of this happens. Did the Garda lose his cool? I think he did, but the aul' fella isn't innocent either. And another thing, can someone remind these people who harp on about their right to protest that the state can limit their rights, and if they don't believe me then they can ask any solicitor.
Clive Bisquette wrote: » Too right my friend ...if the aul' lad didn't want to be hit because he was an aul' lad then he should not have been in the forefront of the mob right in the Garda's face ! The fact that the Guard landed a precision blow to the aul' lads shoulder proves that he was in control. An out of control blow would have split the aul' fellas skull ....
Little CuChulainn wrote: » That's not what it actually says. You need to do the training to get the baton. What the article you linked says is that many Gardaí weren't given refresher courses in the use of the baton. They are still trained and the rules are still the same. The re-certification is an internal organisation goal.
Muahahaha wrote: » Which is why I said that Gardai are not adequately trained rather than saying not trained at all. You might be able to tell us about the training in the use of a baton- are Gardai trained to draw and strike without warning or is best practice to draw it, warn the person and then react only if completely necessary? In the video the Garda just whips it out with no warning at all. As batons can be lethal weapons i would have thought that a warning before actually using it would be appropriate- anytime I've seen them used in crowd control situations in the UK the police have them drawn ready for use rather than just drawing them and going battering in. I'm doubting that Gardai are trained the way the Garda in the video used it which perhaps suggests that he is one of the 6,000 odd Gardai who need a refresher course in how to use their baton.
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