National Postcodes to be introduced

plodder wrote: »

It looks like a useful resource, but in what way is Eircode integrated to it?

Was just browsing it and there are some interesting tables like a list of fishing locations in County Roscommon. Locations have to be specified by geo-coordinates obviously as these locations wouldn't have Eircodes.

Type an Eircode into the search box at the top of the map and it'll pop up with the address. Seems to use Autoaddress' API or something similar.

moyners wrote: »

Type an Eircode into the search box at the top of the map and it'll pop up with the address. Seems to use Autoaddress' API or something similar.

Yeah, it looks like the same base maps layer that the Eircode finder uses. It doesn't seem to be integrated into any of the datasets though. I don't expect that it will be, as Eircode routing keys are too big and too diverse to have much value for statistical purposes.

oscarBravo wrote: »

Seriously? You think a company will use "loft, subliminal, wrestling" as the postcode on their business correspondence?

You can buy a specific 3 word combination if you like.

Bray Head wrote: »

Doesn't the eircode file allow you to sort by CSO small area, electoral district, etc?

Routing key not really relevant.

Yes, but what I mean is the publicly visible data in that geohive website. It includes various datasets relating to population statistics, environmental information like flood risk maps, and a load of other information. It doesn't seem likely to me that individual eircodes would be included in those datasets, except maybe locations of certain kinds of buildings or tourist facilties.

http://gisuser.com/2015/11/mapmechanics-launches-truckstops-ireland/


When you read something like this, I find it really hard to stomach the claims from the FTAI and others that eircode is of no use to them.

It's a article on the launch of truckstop Ireland from a company called mapmechanics, a global logistics software company that is offering a eircode enabled delivery solution in Ireland for logistics / couriers.

plodder wrote: »

I don't think FTAI said it was no use to them. They said they will use routing keys for routing themselves. So, that means it is some use.

What they said is that a geocode would have been simpler, cheaper, and more useful than a hidden random code like Eircode, which is quite a different point.

Here they say it's useless

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/eircode-is-useless-says-transport-and-courier-trade-body-340245.html

There are countless other articles out there where they say it's "unworkable" "not fit for purpose" which seems to be a lie now.


A direct quote "It further maintains that the randomised unique identifier is of no use to companies trying to route their deliveries."

It's of no use? Well a logistics planning company is telling you it is highly useful.

As pointed out on this thread before, the FTAI have been slowly softening their stance on eircode since it was announced

^^^
Google maps are now being made to work with navigation offline.

https://googleblog.blogspot.ie/2015/11/navigate-and-search-real-world-online.html

Now imagine if Eircode also worked with them....

ukoda wrote: »

http://gisuser.com/2015/11/mapmechanics-launches-truckstops-ireland/


When you read something like this, I find it really hard to stomach the claims from the FTAI and others that eircode is of no use to them.

It's a article on the launch of truckstop Ireland from a company called mapmechanics, a global logistics software company that is offering a eircode enabled delivery solution in Ireland for logistics / couriers.

What I find interesting it that one of the users of mapmechanics software is Eddie Stobart - a member of the FTAI. One of the accredited providers has Tesco in the UK listed as a customer - Tesco Ireland is also a member of the FTAI. I think some of the members with UK parent companies may have been surprised at the level of eircode support being offered by the UK companies which provide their routing software.

ukoda wrote: »

My earlier post didn't need to, I'm not getting into another argument with you. Let me bullet point this:

Originally FTAI said: it's "useless" "unworkable" "not fit for purpose" - this is not true

Then FTAI said: only the routing keys are of some use - this is still not true

The article I posted shows it could be very useful

That's all I'm saying, there's no need to nit pick at wording. My point is valid.

You're the gift that keeps on giving. Why criticise someone for an initial position they take, which was subsequently modified (or softened)? Also, you're wrong about the bolded part. They clearly said that what they want was an openly specified postcode that didn't need to be licensed (you can disagree with that assessment, but you can't say they didn't want this). And the only open part of Eircode is the routing key. So, that is the only useful part of Eircode from that point of view.

Sam Russell wrote: »

It was supposed to launch in the spring.

It didn't. It launched 4 months ago, about 6 weeks after the end of spring.

ukoda wrote: »

I see the European Conmission has rejected the FTAI's complaint that eircode was "illegal state aid to An Post".

How could the EC accept such a claim?

a) The Eircode is not a postcode.

b) A long alpha numeric postcode was developed in GB about 40 years ago because sorting machines available back in the day could only read and sort to postcodes. No other European mail administration in Europe use this antiquated technology.

c) An Post, like every other postal administration in Europe that uses mechanised systems, uses scanning systems that read the entire address during the scanning process, and match it with a database of valid addresses in the country. This data provides the lat/long grid reference for the address, accurate to 1m. This grid reference provides the basis for sorting.

d) The eircode does nothing more than provide a table of eircodes to grid references from a sorting perspective. Given that there is already a means of deriving the grid reference, I suspect that An Post had to be dragged screaming into the Eircode fiasco.

f) The addition of eircodes to the An Post sorting system was a cost burden on the company, and the price you pay for a stamp.

g) Nobody uses the eircode because it is not user friendly or memorable. Everything has been done to make it user hostile. eg the routing code does not match town names (eg towns in Co Cork have codes beginning with T (metro Cork area) and P (rural Co Cork). Codes beginning with C are in Navan. One neighbour's eircode may be 2G78 and the guy next door is Z992. If you asked people in the street what their eircode is, I suspect only 1 in 100 at most would be able to give you their correct code. They went on to give each dwelling unit its own code, which is an invasion of each household's privacy and financial security potentially. If An Post was to sort mail using postcodes, their systems would grind to a halt.

Far from being an illegal state subsidy, the eircode has been mangled into a massive dump of cash down the drain. No doubt GCHQ and the NSA has got their hands on a copy of the code database! Ireland is governed by dumbos who fail to recognise the a government is there to provide service to the country.

oscarBravo wrote: »

This isn't true. Your entire argument is undermined by your willingness to say things that you know aren't true.

And you do know that it's not true, because you've seen me post on this thread about how useful eircodes have been to my business.

The insistence that eircodes are a "fiasco" in the face of any and all evidence to the contrary is starting to feel a bit... I dunno, desperate? It's almost as if the need to have been right in the predictions of doom outweighs any desire to be objective.

Please don't get me wrong. I am all in favour of postcodes within a natural structured mailing address system (ie every building gets a street/road name, building number, postcode and town name). Businesses can benefit greatly from them. Houses are numbered sequentially, preferably odd/even on each side of the street.

In this respect, the Netherlands have done a good job. A postcode eg 1234 AB AMSTERDAM theoretically points to about 20 houses/buildings. If it is a company, the code is exclusive to that company. An individual who is asked for a postcode can supply either a) 1234 (which is equivalent to Dublin 4), or 1234 AB (which is equivalent to 2 to 26 Aylesbury Road, D4), or 1234 AB and they can give their house number which is the same as saying "I live at 24 Aylesbury Road, D4 - only it would be entered as 1234 AB 24. Which takes far fewer keystrokes.

The Swiss achieve a similar objectives with a 4 digit postcode and json autocomplete to fill out the address field after the individual enters the house number and the first letter or two of the street name.

My problem is with the fact that the State wasted 30 million + EUR to create a useless "Eircoding" system, that takes no account of modern technology and user friendliness. A national embarrassment of Oirish dumbness.

Try finding an eircode for an un-named farm on the eircode.ie website, unless you have local knowledge of a townland, using eircode, you will be wasting your time. Data privacy laws don't allow them to make the farm owner's name searchable. 50 % of the Irish address space has no starting point to search for their eircode. How stupid can they get?

Impetus wrote: »

...... Houses are numbered sequentially, preferably odd/even on each side of the street.

until a new house is built on a rural road - end of sequence

Impetus wrote: »

My problem is with the fact that the State wasted 30 million + EUR to create a useless "Eircoding" system, that takes no account of modern technology and user friendliness.

it uses modern technology - go to eircode.ie website - find eircode

Impetus wrote: »

Try finding an eircode for an un-named farm on the eircode.ie website, unless you have local knowledge of a townland, using eircode, you will be wasting your time.

you could say that about anything with no name

you'd have a job finding boards.ie if it didn't have a name ( DNS etc ) and you didn't know the IP address