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This mornings M50 crash being treated as a crime scene

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135

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    #62
    asherbassad
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,869 ✭✭✭asherbassad


    Oops69 wrote: »
    This closure today cost the economy millions , yes it's a terrible incident but there is no justification for closing the main lifeline of a city of 1.5 million people for an incident like this , there must be a better way .

    One wonders how the country survived before this fuckin' road was built.


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    #63
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,298 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    Superhorse wrote: »
    250/400cc mopeds are more than capable of getting someone in from Naas/Dundalk etc. without a bother. Yes of course it's not suitable for everyone I understand and except that. I worked with a guy in Sandyford who came in from Drumcondra everyday in his car before he got his A licence and bought a Fazer 600 bike. He worked it out that he was saving over 5hrs a week on his commute. Also road tax on his car was over 800 I believe where it's a flat rate of 88 on a bike.

    Also i'll have to disagree with you on if it would have made a big difference yesterday on the M50 because I believe it would have. Surely if the majority of people inside the M50 belt used bikes the city would have had the capacity to deal with the commuters having to avoid the motorway because of the accident?

    Maybe. But we'll never know.

    I wouldn't personally be an advocate for people commuting (not talking about urban use) using less safe forms of transport.


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    #64
    Superhorse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 848 ✭✭✭Superhorse


    kneemos wrote: »
    Nobody is being selfish.The injured woman and the slow cleanup of the accident are completely unrelated topics.

    It was an investigation that took priority not the clean up.


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    #65
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    kneemos wrote: »
    Closed for seven hours.They need to look at their evidence gathering methods.

    Having been stuck on Motorways in the UK after similar incidents, I know first hand that Ireland isn't the only country that seeks to find answers to all such events. Accidents don't happen. There has to be a cause, either human error, sudden illness or mechanical fault and it's the Gardais job to find out which and deal with the causes appropriately.


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    #66
    asherbassad
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,869 ✭✭✭asherbassad


    EazyD wrote: »
    My girlfriend almost missed her graduation today as a result, 3 and a half hour journey from Blanch into town. Hopefully the woman will pull through and make a full recovery.

    Bullshit!

    Nobody from Blanch graduates from secondary school, let alone goes on to college.


    Kidding!
    Good luck to her!


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    #67
    Superhorse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 848 ✭✭✭Superhorse


    lawred2 wrote: »
    Maybe. But we'll never know.

    I wouldn't personally be an advocate for people commuting (not talking about urban use) using less safe forms of transport.

    Well that's another argument altogether.


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    #68
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,152 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    lawred2 wrote: »
    The M50 was at capacity way back when it was completed however the economic collapse allowed some face saving breathing space for a few years as traffic volumes dropped off.. It was always going to come back to those levels.

    Best thing to do now is variable speed limits at peak times. Keep people moving if at a slower pace.
    I disagree. There was absolutely no political will to improve public services to a point where it became a viable option to the masses. People commute using cars for comfort but also convienence. I commute to Sandyford from Leixlip which in general terms is a short distance but via public transport would be approx 2 hours each way (door to door). There is no impetus to improve public transport and never really has been. We get some token measures but nothing substantial. With fuel prices so low over the last number of months, this has encouraged people to take the car.

    This attitude has been there for years and led principally by various FF governments who were cosy with the builders (hence why the motorway network improved whilst progress of the rail network was kept far behind. I'm not saying that FG have been any better but they just haven't held the reigns for quite as long.

    Our transport policies revolve around the road network. We need a culture change to change the mindset that every trip should be in the car. This needs to be led by political will. Bring down prices for public transport trips. Make them more frequent (or get larger vehicles where possible) during busy periods. Remove many of the car parks from public buildings - Christ, the Dáil garden was a car park for many years which just shows the contempt for the public transport services. I think the mileage rate should be removed from politicians and be replaced with a bus pass.
    Improving traffic flow would also serve to benefit the commuter who has to use the car. Remove many of the right hand turns during busy periods would be a positive start.

    However, this is Ireland where our politicians are more concerned with petty crap than the larger picture.


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    #69
    asherbassad
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,869 ✭✭✭asherbassad


    RHJ wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    That's one of the dumbest statements I read in a while.


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    #70
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,152 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Superhorse wrote: »
    Truck drivers are always under pressure with regards driving hours because of ludicrous tachograph and CPC rules. If a driver is on the M50 let's say coming up northbound on the Sandyford on ramp and has 20 minutes to make it to the depot in Blanchardstown or else he'll be in violation of the driving hours regulations, do you think he's going to sit in the slow lane for the journey or put the boot down?
    the what?
    We have no slow lanes on our motorways (nor do we have a fast lane!). What we do have is people who don't understand the lanes on our motorways.


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    #71
    bucketybuck
    Registered Users Posts: 18,273 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    The sanctimony surrounding this incident is very boring.

    Yes a woman got hurt. Yes I hope she is ok. No that doesn't mean questions shouldn't be asked about why Irelands busiest road was shut down for 6 hours including rush hour and affecting the lives of thousands upon thousands of people.

    Some people seem to think that just because somebody got hurt everybody should just shut up except to mutter meaningless platitudes about her well being. But you know what, I don't know that woman, just as I didn't know the hundreds of other Irish people who died yesterday. I'm sorry for them all and I wish they were all ok but my concern is meaningless to them, so I am just going to go ahead and ask about what does concern me, namely our complete inability to quickly deal with one isolated RTA in a city of millions.


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    #72
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    kbannon wrote: »
    the what?
    We have no slow lanes on our motorways (nor do we have a fast lane!). What we do have is people who don't understand the lanes on our motorways.

    Which can be seen any evening you head in to Dublin from the M/N 7. Inside lane empty. Cars hogging the middle lane as if their lives depend on it!


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    #73
    bking
    Registered Users Posts: 65 ✭✭bking


    It annoys me how people say things like "Oh it's so selfish to be annoyed about being late." as if it's mutually exclusive to hope that the woman is ok, while also being pi55ed off that it took 2/3 hours to get in to work.

    Now if people were saying "this stupid woman made me late" you might have a point.

    It's the same sort of thing, to me, as when you say something like "ah, isn't it very sad that Robin Williams died", and some gob5h1te says something like "yeah, but 100 people were killed in an earthquake in <insert place>".

    I'm capable of thinking of different things at once, thanks!


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    #74
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,152 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    bucketybuck wrote: »
    I am just going to go ahead and ask about what does concern me, namely our complete inability to quickly deal with one isolated RTA in a city of millions.
    So with the election coming up, have you your list of questions ready such as when will a second orbital route around Dublin be completed? How much extra will be invested into public transport? etc. or will you be like so many and just moan about having to pay for water?


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    #75
    kneemos
    Registered Users Posts: 20,418 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    Superhorse wrote: »
    It was an investigation that took priority not the clean up.


    Slow investigation then.


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    #76
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    Empathy in Ireland???


    That's as rare as hen's teeth


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    #77
    murpho999
    Registered Users Posts: 28,443 ✭✭✭✭murpho999


    bucketybuck wrote: »
    The sanctimony surrounding this incident is very boring.

    Yes a woman got hurt. Yes I hope she is ok. No that doesn't mean questions shouldn't be asked about why Irelands busiest road was shut down for 6 hours including rush hour and affecting the lives of thousands upon thousands of people.

    Some people seem to think that just because somebody got hurt everybody should just shut up except to mutter meaningless platitudes about her well being. But you know what, I don't know that woman, just as I didn't know the hundreds of other Irish people who died yesterday. I'm sorry for them all and I wish they were all ok but my concern is meaningless to them, so I am just going to go ahead and ask about what does concern me, namely our complete inability to quickly deal with one isolated RTA in a city of millions.

    The issue is quite simple.
    A major accident occurred yesterday which may lead to a fatality.

    Gardai have to conduct a full investigation which requires the scene to be preserved. This involves taking pictures, assessing vehicle finishing positions, analysing trajectortes, checking tyre marks on the road, examining dispersion of debris. etc.

    All of this takes time and has to be done 100% correct. the traffic delays are unavoidable.


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    #78
    bucketybuck
    Registered Users Posts: 18,273 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    kbannon wrote: »
    So with the election coming up, have you your list of questions ready such as when will a second orbital route around Dublin be completed? How much extra will be invested into public transport? etc. or will you be like so many and just moan about having to pay for water?

    Yes I have a list of questions right here for discussion with the relevant people. Whats your point?


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    #79
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    kneemos wrote: »
    Slow investigation then.

    Do you have any idea how detailed an investigation like this is, how slowly and carefully it must be done?


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    #80
    c68zapdsm5i1ru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,709 ✭✭✭c68zapdsm5i1ru


    Superhorse wrote: »
    The shear amount of "me me me" type posts on here and social networking sites today was unreal. Nobody gave a sh it about the poor woman it was all about being late for work by a couple of hours etc..

    Some evil feckers out there tbh would make you sick.

    I hope to jesus the woman pulls through and makes a full recovery.

    A bit melodramatic. It's possible to feel very sorry for the injured woman whilst also being frustrated at the management of the situation - which led to hundreds of cars being gridlocked resulting in people being seriously late for work, hospital appointments, flights, childcare arrangements etc and a knock on effect for hundreds of others ie thousands of people being majorly affected by the traffic chaos that was still going on 5 hours after the accident actually occurred.


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    #81
    kneemos
    Registered Users Posts: 20,418 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    murpho999 wrote: »
    The issue is quite simple.
    A major accident occurred yesterday which may lead to a fatality.

    Gardai have to conduct a full investigation which requires the scene to be preserved. This involves taking pictures, assessing vehicle finishing positions, analysing trajectortes, checking tyre marks on the road, examining dispersion of debris. etc.

    All of this takes time and has to be done 100% correct. the traffic delays are unavoidable.


    We know that.The point is why does it take six or seven hours?

    I can see how it could take a few hours to investigate,move the trucks and clean up etc,but for such a vital road they should have a better plan in place .


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    #82
    bucketybuck
    Registered Users Posts: 18,273 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    AudreyHepburn wrote: »
    Do you have any idea how detailed an investigation like this is, how slowly and carefully it must be done?

    Do you?

    There is nothing wrong with questioning why the investigation took 6 hours. I have been at the scene of RTA's before and have seen similar procedures, they didn't take 6 hours. There have been dozens of accidents on the M50 and they didn't require 6 hours to analyse the scene, what was the difference here?

    Maybe 6 hours was the quickest possible time in this case and the people involved did everything in their power to finish as quickly as they could, but, the consequences of those 6 hours were far reaching and as such deserve at least some scrutiny. We cannot just blindly assume that mistakes were not made, this is Ireland after all.

    What if we found out that 3 of those hours were spent waiting on a technician to arrive? Irelands busiest road shut down because of one man, because he wasn't there and we had nobody to cover him? Do you not think its worth knowing about things like that so that it doesn't happen again?

    Maybe everything went perfectly and everybody deserved great credit, but shut down the M50 for 6 hours and you should have to answer questions, thats just the way it is.


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    #83
    asherbassad
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,869 ✭✭✭asherbassad


    Superhorse wrote: »
    The road is at something like 125% of it's capacity already I can't see it getting better anytime soon in fact with the economy picking up it's going to become a lot worse very soon. Maybe we need some outside the box thinking from our government. Encourage more people to get out on two wheels weather it be motorbikes or bicycle. Maybe a tax incentive of some sort for bikers. Heard recently that Ireland is the only nation in Europe to charge VAT on motorbike safety gear I mean small things like that put people off.

    Go to any large or mid sized European city and every second person is on a moped for instance and yes yes I know the weather is better in Italy, France etc.. but with proper gear and parking facilities/showers in workplaces riding a motorbike or bicycle to work will benefit the economy and more importantly society big time.

    The answer is right under your nose. Go to holland.....their rail network is amazing.


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    #84
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    kneemos wrote: »
    We know that.The point is why does it take six or seven hours?

    I can see how it could take a few hours to investigate,move the trucks and clean up etc,but for such a vital road they should have a better plan in place .

    This question has been answered several times already. Go back read some of the posts preceeding this one.


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    #85
    Ally Dick
    Registered Users Posts: 12,685 ✭✭✭✭Ally Dick


    I refuse to use that evil hell road unless absolutely necessary. Accidents like yesterday are going to become more common place as the number of cars on the road now is getting ridiculous


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    #86
    bucketybuck
    Registered Users Posts: 18,273 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    AudreyHepburn wrote: »
    This question has been answered several times already. Go back read some of the posts preceeding this one.

    The answers given so far amount to, "it took 6 hours because there was an investigation", and that answers nothing at all really.


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    #87
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    kneemos wrote: »
    We know that.The point is why does it take six or seven hours?

    I can see how it could take a few hours to investigate,move the trucks and clean up etc,but for such a vital road they should have a better plan in place .

    Look at it another way. Say that woman was YOUR Mother, Daughter, Wife, Partner, Mother of your kids, sister, would you not wish for all information regarding cause of accident to be found? If there was any wrongdoing by one of the other drivers, wouldn't you want the Gardai, Insurance people know it and use it in any prosecution or compensation case?


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    #88
    Del2005
    Registered Users Posts: 18,943 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    kbannon wrote: »
    I disagree. There was absolutely no political will to improve public services to a point where it became a viable option to the masses. People commute using cars for comfort but also convienence. I commute to Sandyford from Leixlip which in general terms is a short distance but via public transport would be approx 2 hours each way (door to door). There is no impetus to improve public transport and never really has been. We get some token measures but nothing substantial. With fuel prices so low over the last number of months, this has encouraged people to take the car.

    This attitude has been there for years and led principally by various FF governments who were cosy with the builders (hence why the motorway network improved whilst progress of the rail network was kept far behind. I'm not saying that FG have been any better but they just haven't held the reigns for quite as long.

    Our transport policies revolve around the road network. We need a culture change to change the mindset that every trip should be in the car. This needs to be led by political will. Bring down prices for public transport trips. Make them more frequent (or get larger vehicles where possible) during busy periods. Remove many of the car parks from public buildings - Christ, the Dáil garden was a car park for many years which just shows the contempt for the public transport services. I think the mileage rate should be removed from politicians and be replaced with a bus pass.
    Improving traffic flow would also serve to benefit the commuter who has to use the car. Remove many of the right hand turns during busy periods would be a positive start.

    However, this is Ireland where our politicians are more concerned with petty crap than the larger picture.

    That would be a good idea except for the fact that our councils allowed too much ribbon development along roads so there is nowhere to build public transport to. Unless you want the buses to stop outside everyone's house, which means that it would be too slow, and rail is impossible as it requires high population density, which we don't have.


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    #89
    c68zapdsm5i1ru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,709 ✭✭✭c68zapdsm5i1ru


    I think it's very important that questions are asked.

    With traffic going back to Celtic tiger levels, I doubt this will be the only major accident to affect the M50 this Winter and while the main concern is, of course, the lives damaged or tragically cut short by these accidents, it is also important to ensure that investigations and clean ups happen as efficiently as possible given the knock on effect of such accidents.

    There also needs to be a greater police presence on the M50. Every day you see idiots tail gating, ducking and diving, speeding across 3 lanes at the last minute to get to their exit, tearing down the outside lane flashing their lights furiously at anyone who dares to use it for its intended purpose ie overtaking, and talking on mobile phones. These morons cause daily collisions and minor incidents which cause huge inconvenience to hundreds of other people and could potentially cause very serious accidents which kill or injure other drivers.


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    #90
    2Mad2BeMad
    Registered Users Posts: 2,790 ✭✭✭2Mad2BeMad


    My opinion is if you crash on the m50 and it's your fault well then you should be banned for life. The m50 is easy to drive on. Sure their is idiot drivers but if the crash is your fault and you could of prevented it well then you should consider sticking to public transport.

    I hope the woman is ok and she makes a fast recovery but if it's her fault I personally don't want to have her on the road. Same goes for them artic truck drivers.


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    #91
    gandalf
    Registered Users Posts: 26,458 ✭✭✭✭gandalf


    It's obvious that the delay was to get as much information as possible because someone was very seriously injured with the possibility of expiring from their injuries.

    The problem with the M50 is that since last year the volume of traffic has increased by quite a bit as people get back into employment. I travel it every day from South to North and the increase is extremely noticeable now. Now the North to Southbound lanes are solid with traffic at a crawl nearly every morning and thats before any traffic incidents.

    It's obvious to me that their needs to be an outer ring road connecting all the main motorways to take the pressure off the M50 by allowing traffic that is not going to Dublin an alternative route to connect the main motorway arteries.

    Unless the planners start to put together some plans to integrate new roads and proper public transport then the city will continue to strangle itself with traffic.

    And I am not even going to discuss the fact we have to pay to use a ring road that is fast turning into a mass car park!


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