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This mornings M50 crash being treated as a crime scene

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124

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    #92
    St. Leibowitz
    Registered Users Posts: 349 ✭✭St. Leibowitz


    murpho999 wrote: »
    The issue is quite simple.
    A major accident occurred yesterday which may lead to a fatality.

    Gardai have to conduct a full investigation which requires the scene to be preserved. This involves taking pictures, assessing vehicle finishing positions, analysing trajectortes, checking tyre marks on the road, examining dispersion of debris. etc.

    All of this takes time and has to be done 100% correct. the traffic delays are unavoidable.

    Correct. The Gardai, following many UK forces no longer refer to RTA'a (Road Traffic Accidents). They now refer to them, and encourage other emergency services and the media to do so also, as RTC's (Road Traffic Collisions), the thinking being that an accident implied that it was unavoidable and no blame should be apportioned. A completely erroneous interpretation of the word accident, and is RTC stupidly used in isolation. For instance, you could be involved in an RTC, and then charged with leaving the scene of an accident. And you can be sure that the forms you get from the insurance company will refer to accident.


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    #93
    kneemos
    Registered Users Posts: 20,419 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Look at it another way. Say that woman was YOUR Mother, Daughter, Wife, Partner, Mother of your kids, sister, would you not wish for all information regarding cause of accident to be found? If there was any wrongdoing by one of the other drivers, wouldn't you want the Gardai, Insurance people know it and use it in any prosecution or compensation case?


    Sure . Doesn't answer the question why it took six hours though.


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    #94
    asherbassad
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,869 ✭✭✭asherbassad


    Superhorse wrote: »
    250/400cc mopeds are more than capable of getting someone in from Naas/Dundalk etc. without a bother. Yes of course it's not suitable for everyone I understand and except that. I worked with a guy in Sandyford who came in from Drumcondra everyday in his car before he got his A licence and bought a Fazer 600 bike. He worked it out that he was saving over 5hrs a week on his commute. Also road tax on his car was over 800 I believe where it's a flat rate of 88 on a bike.

    Also i'll have to disagree with you on if it would have made a big difference yesterday on the M50 because I believe it would have. Surely if the majority of people inside the M50 belt used bikes the city would have had the capacity to deal with the commuters having to avoid the motorway because of the accident?


    Dude, fucking scooters are not going to solve the problem of traffic congestion anywhere in Ireland. A first rate public transport network is.


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    #95
    c68zapdsm5i1ru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,709 ✭✭✭c68zapdsm5i1ru


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Look at it another way. Say that woman was YOUR Mother, Daughter, Wife, Partner, Mother of your kids, sister, would you not wish for all information regarding cause of accident to be found? If there was any wrongdoing by one of the other drivers, wouldn't you want the Gardai, Insurance people know it and use it in any prosecution or compensation case?

    I'm not sure how this relates to questions about the most efficient way to investigate horrific incidents like this, or how to improve traffic flow around the greater Dublin area so that accidents don't cause complete gridlock on the country's major motorway.


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    #96
    RustyNut
    Registered Users Posts: 3,430 ✭✭✭RustyNut


    lawred2 wrote: »
    I'd argue that there should be no allowance for trucks outside of lane 1 save for situations where traffic is stationary.

    Id argue against that.

    Just imagine one of eddy stobarts trucks leaves cork at 05.00 heading for their depot in Donabate.

    Most if not all of stobarts yokes are limited to 80 K's so most trucks truck that leave cork after it will catch up as most are limited to 85 or 90 K's.

    So by the time he gets to Portlaoise there will be a massive row of trucks which will also be joined by the overnighters heading up the M7 from Limerick, Kerry etc and that is a lot of trucks, a convoy several kilometers long, at least that's what happens on the stretches of the Autobahn where trucks are banned from overtaking and its enforced rigidly there, but it is not a blanket ban, its only in place on stretches where it makes sense, ie long uphill drags etc.

    This means that the outside lane from Portlaoise to naas will be limited to the speed of the slowest car in the outside lane, some oulwan on her way to Dublin could spend that whole stretch of motorway legitimately in the outside lane overtaking this row of trucks at 85 K's at 7 in the morning. How stressed would you feel stuck behind her.

    A ban on trucks using the outside lane of a two lane motorway is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

    Trucks are not on the road to slow traffic or p1ss people off, they are moving the stuff we all need every day. If you own something chances are it traveled on a truck at some stage and if transporting your stuff takes more time then your stuff gets more expensive.


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    #97
    bodhrandude
    Registered Users Posts: 12,455 ✭✭✭✭bodhrandude


    It could have been a tyre blow out or anything that could have caused that accident.

    If you want to get into it, you got to get out of it. (Hawkwind 1982)



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    #98
    asherbassad
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,869 ✭✭✭asherbassad


    murpho999 wrote: »
    The issue is quite simple.
    A major accident occurred yesterday which may lead to a fatality.

    Gardai have to conduct a full investigation which requires the scene to be preserved. This involves taking pictures, assessing vehicle finishing positions, analysing trajectortes, checking tyre marks on the road, examining dispersion of debris. etc.

    All of this takes time and has to be done 100% correct. the traffic delays are unavoidable.

    Not only that but the experts and the equipment needed might not necessarily be living in a caravan right beside the accident site with their kit in a box. Accident investigators and forensics dudes might have had to travel up from Cork or Galway, etc. who knows?

    I remember last year a girl was crushed by a big Eddie Stobart truck right in front of Dublin Castle. It was horrific. <mod snip - really no need for that kind of description>. The emergency crew were working to get her out. I didn't hang around. Went to Slattery's early house and had a few pints and did the crossword and got all pensive. I went back up to Lord Edward Street around noon (accident occurred about 8am) and the truck was still there, road taped off and guys with theodolites collecting data. Lord Edward Street was still closed off at 5pm while they conducted their investigation.


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    #99
    mcmoustache
    Registered Users Posts: 7,236 ✭✭✭mcmoustache


    asherbassad wrote: »
    Dude, fucking scooters are not going to solve the problem of traffic congestion anywhere in Ireland. A first rate public transport network is.

    Not going to happen here, I'm afraid. Half-assed, is how things are done here.


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    #100
    intheclouds
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,175 ✭✭✭intheclouds


    gandalf wrote: »
    The problem with the M50 is that since last year the volume of traffic has increased by quite a bit as people get back into employment. I travel it every day from South to North and the increase is extremely noticeable now. Now the North to Southbound lanes are solid with traffic at a crawl nearly every morning and thats before any traffic incidents.

    The volume of traffic on the M50 is now so heavy at rush hours that it cannot operate as a motorway correctly at all. The over taking lane is simply another driving lane that is crammed with cars. There is no possibility of correct motorway driving and some of the exits have such dangerously short exit lanes for the volume of traffic they experience that it is actually dangerous to be in lane 1 or 2 as cars in front of you come to a complete stop and sit indicating trying to get into the exit queue because they thought itd be clever to not join the end of the queue (Sandyford southbound comes to mind).

    I use the M50 daily and since the clock changed on the October bank holiday weekend there has been a collision or delay Northbound every single evening when I leave work.


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    #101
    bucketybuck
    Registered Users Posts: 18,269 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    asherbassad wrote: »
    Not only that but the experts and the equipment needed might not necessarily be living in a caravan right beside the accident site with their kit in a box. Accident investigators and forensics dudes might have had to travel up from Cork or Galway, etc. who knows?

    And you don't think its worth asking questions and finding this out, so that we can arrange the equipment to be better located in future?


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    #102
    c68zapdsm5i1ru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,709 ✭✭✭c68zapdsm5i1ru


    intheclouds wrote: »
    The volume of traffic on the M50 is now so heavy at rush hours that it cannot operate as a motorway correctly at all. The over taking lane is simply another driving lane that is crammed with cars. There is no possibility of correct motorway driving and some of the exits have such dangerously short exit lanes for the volume of traffic they experience that it is actually dangerous to be in lane 1 or 2 as cars in front of you come to a complete stop and sit indicating trying to get into the exit queue because they thought itd be clever to not join the end of the queue (Sandyford southbound comes to mind).

    I use the M50 daily and since the clock changed on the October bank holiday weekend there has been a collision or delay Northbound every single evening when I leave work.

    This is a huge problem on the M50 at rush hour. It is particularly bad at the Cork/Waterford exit Southbound in the evenings. Again, there really needs to be some kind of deterrent to this behaviour, as it not only causes major delays, but it also has the potential to cause collisions.


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    #103
    kneemos
    Registered Users Posts: 20,419 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    Irish motorway lanes always strike me as narrow.If there is a minimum limit I'm sure they're at it.


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    #104
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,298 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    kbannon wrote: »
    I disagree. There was absolutely no political will to improve public services to a point where it became a viable option to the masses. People commute using cars for comfort but also convienence. I commute to Sandyford from Leixlip which in general terms is a short distance but via public transport would be approx 2 hours each way (door to door). There is no impetus to improve public transport and never really has been. We get some token measures but nothing substantial. With fuel prices so low over the last number of months, this has encouraged people to take the car.

    This attitude has been there for years and led principally by various FF governments who were cosy with the builders (hence why the motorway network improved whilst progress of the rail network was kept far behind. I'm not saying that FG have been any better but they just haven't held the reigns for quite as long.

    Our transport policies revolve around the road network. We need a culture change to change the mindset that every trip should be in the car. This needs to be led by political will. Bring down prices for public transport trips. Make them more frequent (or get larger vehicles where possible) during busy periods. Remove many of the car parks from public buildings - Christ, the Dáil garden was a car park for many years which just shows the contempt for the public transport services. I think the mileage rate should be removed from politicians and be replaced with a bus pass.
    Improving traffic flow would also serve to benefit the commuter who has to use the car. Remove many of the right hand turns during busy periods would be a positive start.

    However, this is Ireland where our politicians are more concerned with petty crap than the larger picture.

    What bit did you disagree with? I said nothing about public transport.


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    #105
    gandalf
    Registered Users Posts: 26,458 ✭✭✭✭gandalf


    intheclouds wrote: »
    The volume of traffic on the M50 is now so heavy at rush hours that it cannot operate as a motorway correctly at all. The over taking lane is simply another driving lane that is crammed with cars. There is no possibility of correct motorway driving and some of the exits have such dangerously short exit lanes for the volume of traffic they experience that it is actually dangerous to be in lane 1 or 2 as cars in front of you come to a complete stop and sit indicating trying to get into the exit queue because they thought itd be clever to not join the end of the queue (Sandyford southbound comes to mind).

    Those guys do my head in. The amount of near collisions I have seen because of them is crazy. Typically I avoid traveling in the inner lane at rush hour precisely because of this.

    There really needs to be a far more visible Garda presence on the M50 during rush hour. In the last year I can count the number of times I have seen a Garda on the M50 on one hand.
    I use the M50 daily and since the clock changed on the October bank holiday weekend there has been a collision or delay Northbound every single evening when I leave work.

    The volume coming southbound in the morning and then northbound in the evening is crazy. As I said earlier every day that lane seems to be crawling as standard now and that's before any major incidents.


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    #106
    Superhorse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 848 ✭✭✭Superhorse


    2Mad2BeMad wrote: »
    My opinion is if you crash on the m50 and it's your fault well then you should be banned for life. The m50 is easy to drive on. Sure their is idiot drivers but if the crash is your fault and you could of prevented it well then you should consider sticking to public transport.

    I hope the woman is ok and she makes a fast recovery but if it's her fault I personally don't want to have her on the road. Same goes for them artic truck drivers.

    Yeah "them artic drivers" the cheek of them driving delivering the goods that keep the country moving and food in your belly. They should just invent some sort of helicopter artic truck so we wouldn't have to share the roads with them.


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    #107
    Superhorse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 848 ✭✭✭Superhorse


    asherbassad wrote: »
    Dude, fucking scooters are not going to solve the problem of traffic congestion anywhere in Ireland. A first rate public transport network is.

    No need for the language pal. I never said they will solve the problem it's just part of an overall solution that of course includes public transport but we have a problem right here right now and train lines, tunnels, bridges etc.. don't get built overnight especially in Ireland where it takes years of battling through the courts with tree huggers to even get anything solved.


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    #108
    asherbassad
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,869 ✭✭✭asherbassad


    bucketybuck wrote: »
    And you don't think its worth asking questions and finding this out, so that we can arrange the equipment to be better located in future?

    Look mate, I'm not in the slightest bit interested as to why the road was closed for 6 hours, because in my mind it was closed for a good reason. I can't bring myself to think it could have been reopened in 1 hour but they kept it closed for "the craic".


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    #109
    bucketybuck
    Registered Users Posts: 18,269 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    asherbassad wrote: »
    Look mate, I'm not in the slightest bit interested as to why the road was closed for 6 hours, because in my mind it was closed for a good reason. I can't bring myself to think it could have been reopened in 1 hour but they kept it closed for "the craic".

    So whats your point? Are you just upset that every post isn't just some variation of "The poor wee dote I hope shes ok!"


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    #110
    Superhorse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 848 ✭✭✭Superhorse


    bodhrandude wrote: »
    It could have been a tyre blow out or anything that could have caused that accident.

    The boards.ie investigation unit has already handed out blame and anyone caught responsible for an accident on the M50 should be "banned for life". In their world nobody ever makes a mistake ever, they are perfect.


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    #111
    c68zapdsm5i1ru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,709 ✭✭✭c68zapdsm5i1ru


    Superhorse wrote: »
    The boards.ie investigation unit has already handed out blame and anyone caught responsible for an accident on the M50 should be "banned for life". In their world nobody ever makes a mistake ever, they are perfect.

    Eh, one or two posters said that and no one agreed with them.

    Seriously, the melodrama on this thread and the insisting by some posters that anyone who asks questions about the length of closure is some heartless person who doesn't give a damn about the injured woman, is ridiculous.

    It's not a 'compassion competition'. Querying one thing doesn't automatically exclude you from caring about the other.


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    #112
    jim-mcdee
    Registered Users Posts: 373 ✭✭jim-mcdee


    intheclouds wrote: »
    The volume of traffic on the M50 is now so heavy at rush hours that it cannot operate as a motorway correctly at all. The over taking lane is simply another driving lane that is crammed with cars. .

    Not really any different from any other busy orbital motorway in any other country really is it. Have you ever driven on the M25? Try that and then you wont complain about the M50 anymore. People don't realise how good they have it here.


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    #113
    intheclouds
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,175 ✭✭✭intheclouds


    jim-mcdee wrote: »
    Not really any different from any other busy orbital motorway in any other country really is it. Have you ever driven on the M25? Try that and then you wont complain about the M50 anymore. People don't realise how good they have it here.

    So other countries have traffic problems too. So what? It doesn't change the fact that the M50 cannot handle the volume of traffic on it daily. It's irrelevant if the M25 is worse, the thread is about the M50.


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    #114
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    intheclouds wrote: »
    So other countries have traffic problems too. So what? It doesn't change the fact that the M50 cannot handle the volume of traffic on it daily. It's irrelevant if the M25 is worse, the thread is about the M50.

    Anyone would think the M50 was chock a block 24/7. It's only chockers for an hour or so in the morning and again in the evening. It's rarely at a standstill.


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    #115
    Armchair Andy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,847 ✭✭✭Armchair Andy


    Took me all of 20 minutes to get into work this morning, about 7 miles. Stopped for a coffee to ease into the day.


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    #116
    intheclouds
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,175 ✭✭✭intheclouds


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Anyone would think the M50 was chock a block 24/7. It's only chockers for an hour or so in the morning and again in the evening. It's rarely at a standstill.

    I've had periods of standstill on it every day since the clocks changed. Actually, I've started exiting 2 exits before my own because it's been a solid car park after exit 13 every evening.


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    #117
    c68zapdsm5i1ru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,709 ✭✭✭c68zapdsm5i1ru


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Anyone would think the M50 was chock a block 24/7. It's only chockers for an hour or so in the morning and again in the evening. It's rarely at a standstill.

    About two hours every morning and every evening. So if you use it twice a day during rush hour, it is a big problem if drivers are causing unnecessary delays and hold ups through selfish and irresponsible driving.


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    #118
    kidneyfan
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,279 ✭✭✭kidneyfan


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Anyone would think the M50 was chock a block 24/7. It's only chockers for an hour or so in the morning and again in the evening. It's rarely at a standstill.
    Between midnight at 1 am it wasn't at a standstill
    Between 1 am and 2 am it wasn't at a standstill
    Between 2 am and 3 am it wasn't at a standstill
    Between 3 am and 4 am it wasn't at a standstill
    Between 4 am and 5 am it wasn't at a standstill
    Between 5 am and 6 am it wasn't at a standstill
    Between 6 am and 7 am it was at a standstill
    Between 7 am and 8 am it was at a standstill
    Between 8 am and 9 am it was at a standstill
    Between 9 am and 10 am it was at a standstill
    Between 10 am and 11 am it wasn't at a standstill

    etc.


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    #119
    jim-mcdee
    Registered Users Posts: 373 ✭✭jim-mcdee


    kidneyfan wrote: »
    Between midnight at 1 am it wasn't at a standstill
    Between 1 am and 2 am it wasn't at a standstill
    Between 2 am and 3 am it wasn't at a standstill
    Between 3 am and 4 am it wasn't at a standstill
    Between 4 am and 5 am it wasn't at a standstill
    Between 5 am and 6 am it wasn't at a standstill
    Between 6 am and 7 am it was at a standstill
    Between 7 am and 8 am it was at a standstill
    Between 8 am and 9 am it was at a standstill
    Between 9 am and 10 am it was at a standstill
    Between 10 am and 11 am it wasn't at a standstill

    etc.

    This is quite disturbing. I sincerely hope you don't drive my route.


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    #120
    Ruby31
    Registered Users Posts: 197 ✭✭Ruby31


    Superhorse wrote: »
    Yeah "them artic drivers" the cheek of them driving delivering the goods that keep the country moving and food in your belly. They should just invent some sort of helicopter artic truck so we wouldn't have to share the roads with them.

    By my understanding, the point was that if it turns out that one of the truck drivers was at fault, then that individual should be banned from the M50, not ALL artic truck drivers. Correct me if I'm wrong though.


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    #121
    Elmer Blooker
    Registered Users Posts: 6,070 ✭✭✭Elmer Blooker


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Anyone would think the M50 was chock a block 24/7. It's only chockers for an hour or so in the morning and again in the evening. It's rarely at a standstill.
    Are you serious? Have you ever seen the congestion that Blanchardstown SC, Liffey Valley, The Square, Dundrum SC causes on non working days?
    I was told by someone that last Sunday afternoon the M50 at Dundrum was at a snail-pace.
    A billion was spent "upgrading" (whatever that means?) the M50, theres always enough funds available to get more cars on to the roads but never enough for public transport.


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