The Fantastic Four (Reboot)

e_e · 02-09-2015 4:13pm

Probably gonna catch flak just for saying this (the internet has it in for this movie to such a bizarre extent, Marvel studio fanboys possibly being a good part of it) but this was one of the more interesting and refreshing superhero films I've seen lately. Not a resounding success but no abject failure either, even the studio hijack of an ending is over in a breath and I can say it was nice to leave one of these movies not having been bored by 40 minutes of tacked on, arbitrary, badly directed and incoherent action at the end. There is no fat on this film at all and thank Christ for there being no pandering of the usual Stan Lee cameo and franchise lip service kind too.

For a good 80 minutes of its runtime this is pretty strong on a thematic level, a science fiction film about young, promising and ambitious upstarts being manipulated by corporate greed to negative ends. Can't help but draw parallels between the movie's arc and what has been done to Josh Trank by the studio system. There are germs of an excellent film in here, it's just a shame that we got a Saturday morning cartoon tacked on at the end and Trank wasn't there to round off the themes and characters in a way that was consistent with the first two thirds.

e_e · 02-09-2015 4:16pm

Also I think going at this from just a film perspective really helped too, because I could just view the characters as they were in the movie itself and not have to stack it up against the comics. I think it's definitely a good thing that I appreciated them regardless of some outside context. Don't buy the criticism that they were flat and didn't have chemistry, the actors really held the movie together for me.

Mickeroo · 02-09-2015 4:23pm

This is going to be your new Only God Forgives isn't it e_e? :P

e_e · 02-09-2015 4:31pm

No that's Blackhat!

pixelburp · 02-09-2015 4:34pm

Bit like Fury Road's positive hype only serving to disappoint those seeing it after everyone else, I can imagine the notoriety will have the opposite affect on those watching Fantastic Four. Heck I'm still kinda dying to see this, and was nearly through the doors of the cinema to do so at the weekend, but the times didn't suit.

e_e · 02-09-2015 4:39pm

Was surprised that a multiplex near me was still having morning screenings of it.

A little context for my watch too: When it started a couple came in, sat across from me and pulled out smelly fast food and started playing with their phones while rattling their fast food bags and talking to each other. I was annoyed and ready to dislike the film from the get go but it still managed to hold my attention and have me on the side of appreciating what it was trying to do.

Sleepy · 27-10-2015 10:50am

What a mess. It feels like there was an hour or more of footage left on the cutting room floor. Never have I more appreciated the value added to a film by good editing. Guess you have to see it done so poorly to really appreciate when it's done well!

I liked most of the cast, the tone was a little more interesting than the usual emo grim dark with the interesting (albeit simplistic) premise that the 4 needed to escape the clutches of the industrial military complex and the post-return scenes with their powers had a nice edge of horror to them. Then we get a jump and a single line that introduces super suits that allow the heroes to control these horrific powers and the story falls off a cliff.

Hopefully the box-office failure and publicity about Trank's unhappiness with the end result might help prompt the bean-counters in Fox to allow a Directors Cut release to try and claw back some of the losses they've made on this.

OU812 · 27-10-2015 11:03am

Sleepy wrote: »

Hopefully the box-office failure and publicity about Trank's unhappiness with the end result might help prompt the bean-counters in Fox to allow a Directors Cut release to try and claw back some of the losses they've made on this.

They won't. There was a very open falling out & he's actively trying to have his name removed from the production.

Sleepy · 28-10-2015 10:14am

It's a shame because there are hints that there was a decent movie filmed.

Jon Stark · 28-10-2015 6:03pm

Finally watched this last week and it was simply a bizarre experience. It started encouragingly but it fell into farce from the moment Reed escaped the compound.

I've seen films that have been cut to pieces in the editing room but this felt like an evisceration. That's not to say whatever was left on the floor was any good either.

You could almost pinpoint the moment Trank was escorted off the set, it was that bloody awful.

Nervous Wreck · 28-10-2015 9:27pm

I think Trank's vision for the movie was utterly flawed anyway. His cast was too young, his backstories were too thin, his exploration of the characters was absent, his tone was way off, the dialogue was ropey, the motivations completely unbecoming and he gave Dr. Doom powers.

There were decent things about it, sure, but it was never going to be a good film.

Frank O. Pinion · 30-10-2015 12:13pm

I watched the 2005 and 2007 films before this reboot, and they're much more fun and better films.

When everything else about a film, pre-production, post-production, director's actions, etc., is more interesting than the film itself, you've got a problem. The whole thing is bizarre, the origin story, the plot, the characters, the editing...so weird.

I got lost on IMDB reading about all the problems, http://www.imdb.com/name/nm2503633/board/flat/248938989?p=1, fascinating stuff.

Jon Stark · 31-10-2015 11:27am

Frank O. Pinion wrote: »

I watched the 2005 and 2007 films before this reboot, and they're much more fun and better films.

When everything else about a film, pre-production, post-production, director's actions, etc., is more interesting than the film itself, you've got a problem. The whole thing is bizarre, the origin story, the plot, the characters, the editing...so weird.

I got lost on IMDB reading about all the problems, http://www.imdb.com/name/nm2503633/board/flat/248938989?p=1, fascinating stuff.

That guy on imdb seems like a bit of a tool, captain hindsight and all that. The only issue with casting Jordan as Johnny Storm is that they didn't bother exploring the family dynamic that they went to the bother of establishing. It was simply a pointless venture.

Nervous Wreck · 31-10-2015 12:32pm

Frank O. Pinion wrote: »

I watched the 2005 and 2007 films before this reboot, and they're much more fun and better films.

I agree. They're not great but they're a bita fun and the cast is much better (Ioan Gruffud aside).

Jon Stark wrote: »

That guy on imdb seems like a bit of a tool, captain hindsight and all that. The only issue with casting Jordan as Johnny Storm is that they didn't bother exploring the family dynamic that they went to the bother of establishing. It was simply a pointless venture.

They mentioned that she was adopted; that was enough. Of all the issues people had with the film, that was definitely the silliest for me.

New Ice Age · 31-10-2015 12:35pm

I just finished watching this. Now, having known about the utter distaste for this film, I was expecting to hate it. And maybe that's why I thought it wasn't as bad as some people make out.

I agree with both e_e and Nervous Wreck.

On one hand I didn't think it was that bad. I liked the actors and their versions of the characters, for the most part. I liked what they were trying to do which I think was not get too wrapped up in creating a movie version of a comic while creating an origin story for the characters.

I think though that in doing so, the whole thing was a bit thin on the ground. The story was seriously lacking.

Also, where did Doom get his cloak!?!

Nervous Wreck · 31-10-2015 12:46pm

New Ice Age wrote: »

On one hand I didn't think it was that bad. I liked the actors and their versions of the characters, for the most part. I liked what they were trying to do which I think was not get too wrapped up in creating a movie version of a comic while creating an origin story for the characters.

I think though that in doing so, the whole thing was a bit thin on the ground. The story was seriously lacking.

This is a good point that I'm not sure has come up.

Trank went to such great lengths to identify this as a movie that happened to be based on comic book characters (rather than a straight-up comic book movie), that he ignored so much good stuff in the source material. He used some stuff, sure, and I'm sure he thought he was gonna get extra cool points for using the Ultimate universe origins rather than 616, but he ignored too much about the actual characters in the process imo.

New Ice Age · 31-10-2015 12:55pm

Nervous Wreck wrote: »

This is a good point that I'm not sure has come up.

Trank went to such great lengths to identify this as a movie that happened to be based on comic book characters (rather than a straight-up comic book movie), that he ignored so much good stuff in the source material. He used some stuff, sure, and I'm sure he thought he was gonna get extra cool points for using the Ultimate universe origins rather than 616, but he ignored too much about the actual characters in the process imo.

I must admit, I wouldn't be overly familiar with the comics. It just felt like that to me.

expectationlost · 31-10-2015 11:01pm

why does someone try to create a teleporter with only one focus point?

expectationlost · 01-11-2015 12:18am

chewing gum means you are evil

Nervous Wreck · 01-11-2015 12:48am

expectationlost wrote: »

chewing gum means you are evil

Baffling theme.

Turtyturd · 01-11-2015 1:59am

Nervous Wreck wrote: »

They mentioned that she was adopted; that was enough. Of all the issues people had with the film, that was definitely the silliest for me.

This actually bothered me, not the storyline explanation but just in general.

I am not a huge fan of changing characters ethnicity as a quick fix to the lack of prominent non white characters in movies overall but this just showed how it's a token gesture to avoid social media outrage. They had 5 main characters; Doom is a villain so changing him was a no go, Thing was a monster so also a no go, changing both Storms would have made more sense but that's too much diversity. Changing Reed would have made most sense and not impacted upon any of the other characters, but changing the lead character would have been too much change.

Frank O. Pinion · 01-11-2015 10:06am

Some people's problem with the casting of Michael B. Jordan was not because he was black, but because he only got the job for being friends with Trank, after Chronicle.

-Rumors that the role of the Human Torch is being given to Michael B. Jordan, without anyone else being tested for the part, spread. These are eventually proven to be true. Complaints about this casting decision begin. Aside from Michael B. Jordan, the entire cast was hired mere weeks before filming began.

-Miles Teller, Kate Mara, and Jamie Bell are cast in the film as Mister Fantastic, Invisible Woman, and the Thing. Everyone and their mother criticizes these cast choices, and fans begin to express complete disdain for the reboot. However, anyone who criticizes Michael B. Jordan's earlier casting in the film, be it for the proof of simple nepotism, the unexplained relationship to Kate Mara's character, or simply not liking him in the part, is childishly labelled as a "racist" by the media, with supporters of the film following suit.

-When asked about the role by the paparazzi, Michael B. Jordan tells them that complaining fans will "go see [the movie] anyway", while looking fairly smug.

-Michael B. Jordan mentions that the actual team won't be wearing their iconic outfits in-movie, calling Jack Kirby's classic costumes "cheesy". (Ironically, the actual "containment suit" costumes made for the movie look pretty terrible, as people would eventually find out.) He later describes the title four as having super-disabilities. Again, people don't like hearing that what they like about the superhero team will be completely misrepresented on film.

-Michael B. Jordan goes to Entertainment Weekly to talk about how he's a martyr of being victimized by racist fanboys and a trendsetter for progressivism, even though he only got the part because he was pals with Josh Trank, not to mention that Marvel Studios has included a number of black characters in their setting already. Bear in mind that, at this point, most people have gotten over the idea behind the race change and are just pissed that he got the gig for nepotistic/cronyistic reasons.

That bolded one makes him seen like such a tool, especially after the film's terrible box office results.

Nervous Wreck · 01-11-2015 10:12am

Turtyturd wrote: »

This actually bothered me, not the storyline explanation but just in general.

I am not a huge fan of changing characters ethnicity as a quick fix to the lack of prominent non white characters in movies overall but this just showed how it's a token gesture to avoid social media outrage. They had 5 main characters; Doom is a villain so changing him was a no go, Thing was a monster so also a no go, changing both Storms would have made more sense but that's too much diversity. Changing Reed would have made most sense and not impacted upon any of the other characters, but changing the lead character would have been too much change.

his casting was nothing to do with that; it was 100% about Trank casting his pal. Which, incidentally, I don't have a problem with. I actually thought he stood out as one of the few actors in this with charisma.

01-11-2015 10:58am

Then his sister should have been black too. Instead the ram an adoption line in and that's it. Nowhere in the story are they adopted. It was just lazy. Have not heard anyone give out about the Wests, in The Flash series.

Jordan was good in Chronicle so absolutely no issue with Trank casting him. No one gives out about Nolan casting characters from his buddies.

Nervous Wreck · 01-11-2015 11:27am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Then his sister should have been black too. Instead the ram an adoption line in and that's it. Nowhere in the story are they adopted. It was just lazy. Have not heard anyone give out about the Wests, in The Flash series.

Jordan was good in Chronicle so absolutely no issue with Trank casting him. No one gives out about Nolan casting characters from his buddies.

what was lazy? Why should his sister have been black too? What's wrong with her being adopted? Nowhere in the source material does Reed Richards and convince the other characters to travel to an alternate universe for the glory. Nor, for that matter is Johnny Storm black or Victor von Doom a 'cyber hacker'. Why are some of the changes okay and others not?

My point is, in a film that takes a huge amount of liberty with the source material (outright ignoring it for the most part tbh), I don't see why anyone would fixate on the small things like Sue Storm being adopted. Doesn't make much sense as a gripe.

FunLover18 · 01-11-2015 12:11pm

Frank O. Pinion wrote:

That bolded one makes him seen like such a tool, especially after the film's terrible box office results.

To be honest I think he was right and the low box office takings are a result of no one else going to see it.

01-11-2015 1:17pm

Nervous Wreck wrote: »

what was lazy? Why should his sister have been black too? What's wrong with her being adopted? Nowhere in the source material does Reed Richards and convince the other characters to travel to an alternate universe for the glory. Nor, for that matter is Johnny Storm black or Victor von Doom a 'cyber hacker'. Why are some of the changes okay and others not?

My point is, in a film that takes a huge amount of liberty with the source material (outright ignoring it for the most part tbh), I don't see why anyone would fixate on the small things like Sue Storm being adopted. Doesn't make much sense as a gripe.

Because the characters are what matter, not the situation. It just added a layer of needless exposition requirement that would easily have been avoides by just making them a black family vs introducing pointless one liner

Nervous Wreck · 01-11-2015 1:58pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Because the characters are what matter, not the situation. It just added a layer of needless exposition requirement that would easily have been avoides by just making them a black family vs introducing pointless one liner

Surely changing Doom into an emo kid with telekinesis, changing Reed into a moron who gets drunk and goes to the other world for the kudos, and completely sidelining Ben Grimm are worse than having Sue say "I'm adopted"?

expectationlost · 01-11-2015 2:48pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Then his sister should have been black too. Instead the ram an adoption line in and that's it. Nowhere in the story are they adopted. It was just lazy. Have not heard anyone give out about the Wests, in The Flash series.

Jordan was good in Chronicle so absolutely no issue with Trank casting him. No one gives out about Nolan casting characters from his buddies.

well they had this continous line that the guy was going round looking for genius kids to work in the baxter institute, he finds richards as a teen, so he found sue at an earlier point and adopted her.

01-11-2015 4:21pm

Yeah but you only discovered all that after seeing the flick. That was annoying people from the moment of casting. It was pointless

The Fantastic Four (Reboot)

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