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Irish Rail - Risk of Strike Action

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Comments

  • #502
    GM228
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,922 ✭✭✭GM228


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    A quick look at the scales mentioned in the first link above buts the pay range from £31k to £35k for a regional rail driver to £47k for a Eurostar driver.
    So more or less similar pay when you take cost of living into consideration, Eurostar drivers are probably skilled than the others.

    The only skill I could see a Eurostar driver having over other drivers is they need to be fluent in both English and French.

    GM228


  • #503
    GM228
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,922 ✭✭✭GM228


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    Irish Rail are between 37,000-40,000 pounds or 50,000-52,000 euro....so quiet a nice bit above the UK ones. I could be wrong but some drivers could be on higher.

    How many days/hours do Irish Rail require, annual holidays etc?

    You mean Irish drivers are below the UK, the UK drivers get that pay for a 35-37 hour working week depending on the company and most are based on a 4 day working week, their working week is Monday-Saturday, Sundays are not part of their working week and are worked as OT and a higher rate. Most UK operators Sunday services are reliant on drivers working OT. This is something which dates back to BR days.

    Irish drivers are paid for a 48 hour working week based on 5 days which includes Sundays with no extra pay for those days or a higher rate.

    GM228


  • #504
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,788 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    GM228 wrote: »
    You mean Irish drivers are below the UK, the UK drivers get that pay for a 35-37 hour working week depending on the company and most are based on a 4 day working week, their working week is Monday-Saturday, Sundays are not part of their working week and are worked as OT and a higher rate. Most UK operators Sunday services are reliant on drivers working OT. This is something which dates back to BR days.

    Irish drivers are paid for a 48 hour working week based on 5 days which includes Sundays with no extra pay for those days or a higher rate.

    GM228

    God love them, they get paid adequately for the work they do and the level of passengers carried. Note this excludes the 8% raise tabled. We are all not equal.

    UK trains are longer and busier so any extra pay is acceptable. Didn't unions argue for extra pay over here because of longer trains back some time ago, well pay should remain as is as trains are shorter now.


  • #505
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,788 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    The only skill I could see a Eurostar driver having over other drivers is they need to be fluent in both English and French.

    GM228

    The word "France" is enough to justify the extra pay.


  • #506
    GM228
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,922 ✭✭✭GM228


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    God love them, they get paid adequately for the work they do and the level of passengers carried. Note this excludes the 8% raise tabled. We are all not equal.

    UK trains are longer and busier so any extra pay is acceptable. Didn't unions argue for extra pay over here because of longer trains back some time ago, well pay should remain as is as trains are shorter now.

    So the arguement has moved from being the best paid in Europe to be paid for the size of the train!

    Why would a busier train require higher pay?

    That's like saying an artic driver should get more than a rigid driver because he has a longer truck and more cargo!

    GM228


  • #507
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,788 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    GM228 wrote: »
    So the arguement has moved from being the best paid in Europe to be paid for the size of the train!

    Why would a busier train require higher pay?

    GM228

    You tell me, the unions here wanted it when DARTS were longer.....

    I move the goal posts just like unions move them when they like.


  • #508
    end of the road
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,307 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    You tell me, the unions here wanted it when DARTS were longer.....

    I move the goal posts just like unions move them when they like.
    unions don't move them when they like

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • #509
    GM228
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,922 ✭✭✭GM228


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    You tell me, the unions here wanted it when DARTS were longer.....

    I move the goal posts just like unions move them when they like.

    If I remember correctly that arguement was about driving new trains, which happened to be longer, it was not specifically about driving longer trains in general.

    I certainly would not agree with the unions if it was purely about longer trains as I don't think train lenghts or how busy they are is a way to base pay around.

    GM228


  • #510
    Infini
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,573 ✭✭✭Infini


    GM228 wrote: »
    If I remember correctly that arguement was about driving new trains, which happened to be longer, it was not specifically about driving longer trains in general.

    I certainly would not agree with the unions if it was purely about longer trains as I don't think train lenghts or how busy they are is a way to base pay around.

    GM228

    Id agree it would be a bit ridiculous to think drivers wanted pay for driving longer trains unless there was something else like safety involved.

    Another thing to note is the fact the company wants the drivers to work longer hours but infact theres not enough drivers as it is and the dart drivers are already on 48hrs (something to note but afink theyre not allowed work more than that due to EU safety legislation) to cover the whole 10 minute service the company wants. Others want to get out and retire as well but they cant leave.

    If you were to ask about how the companys run from the ground staffs point of view you would find most would agree with you that they feel the companys badly managed. Decisions are long fingered almost all the time until it gets ridiculous. Even the whole negotiations were a case of the driver side looking to agree to something only for the company side to go away and come back with something different. I mean if Franks is gonna flip the table at everything why isnt he in the room and just say so and actually TALK? It would save a ton of time as well. Instead he seems to be afraid to even come into the room and just rejects everything over the phone with no reason why. This is how people get pissed off and relations break down to the point the staff strike out of sheer frustration.


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  • #511
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,788 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    Infini2 wrote: »
    Id agree it would be a bit ridiculous to think drivers wanted pay for driving longer trains unless there was something else like safety involved.

    Another thing to note is the fact the company wants the drivers to work longer hours but infact theres not enough drivers as it is and the dart drivers are already on 48hrs (something to note but afink theyre not allowed work more than that due to EU safety legislation) to cover the whole 10 minute service the company wants. Others want to get out and retire as well but they cant leave.

    If you were to ask about how the companys run from the ground staffs point of view you would find most would agree with you that they feel the companys badly managed. Decisions are long fingered almost all the time until it gets ridiculous. Even the whole negotiations were a case of the driver side looking to agree to something only for the company side to go away and come back with something different. I mean if Franks is gonna flip the table at everything why isnt he in the room and just say so and actually TALK? It would save a ton of time as well. Instead he seems to be afraid to even come into the room and just rejects everything over the phone with no reason why. This is how people get pissed off and relations break down to the point the staff strike out of sheer frustration.

    Won't current drivers not keep an eye on the new drivers hired for such a DART service.
    If I remember correctly that arguement was about driving new trains, which happened to be longer, it was not specifically about driving longer trains in general.

    I certainly would not agree with the unions if it was purely about longer trains as I don't think train lenghts or how busy they are is a way to base pay around.

    GM228

    It was pure Greed from the unions, it was for longer trains no if and's or but's about it. They may of been new trains but they were busier hence them been longer.

    The company should of been shut down in 2009 and cleared out and all staff re employed on acceptable T&C's. Any one remember the clear out Aer Lingus got and look where they are today....


  • #512
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,185 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Infini2 wrote: »
    Id agree it would be a bit ridiculous to think drivers wanted pay for driving longer trains unless there was something else like safety involved.

    Another thing to note is the fact the company wants the drivers to work longer hours but infact theres not enough drivers as it is and the dart drivers are already on 48hrs (something to note but afink theyre not allowed work more than that due to EU safety legislation) to cover the whole 10 minute service the company wants. Others want to get out and retire as well but they cant leave.

    If you were to ask about how the companys run from the ground staffs point of view you would find most would agree with you that they feel the companys badly managed. Decisions are long fingered almost all the time until it gets ridiculous. Even the whole negotiations were a case of the driver side looking to agree to something only for the company side to go away and come back with something different. I mean if Franks is gonna flip the table at everything why isnt he in the room and just say so and actually TALK? It would save a ton of time as well. Instead he seems to be afraid to even come into the room and just rejects everything over the phone with no reason why. This is how people get pissed off and relations break down to the point the staff strike out of sheer frustration.



    CEOs do not take part in negotiations - they never do. That's what HR staff are there for.


    But the CEO will always have the final say - as he is the person responsible ultimately for the running of the company.


  • #513
    end of the road
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,307 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    It was pure Greed from the unions, it was for longer trains no if and's or but's about it.

    it wasn't greed. it was about the new trains and whatever new arrangements that went with them. not simply longer trains.
    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    The company should of been shut down in 2009 and cleared out and all staff re employed on acceptable T&C's.

    so how long would the loss of service have been for to allow that nonsense to happen and be sorted out? years?
    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    Any one remember the clear out Aer Lingus got and look where they are today....

    what clear out. a lot of staff probably took redundantsy but i don't believe they're was a clear out as such

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • #514
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,788 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    it wasn't greed. it was about the new trains and whatever new arrangements that went with them. not simply longer trains.

    Rubbish pure greed as they were transporting more passengers, new trains make the live of drivers easier than old ones. Don;t believe the 22 fleet required an increase......
    so how long would the loss of service have been for to allow that nonsense to happen and be sorted out? years?

    Weeks, very easy to prepare for a % who will leave and a % who will return.
    what clear out. a lot of staff probably took redundantsy but i don't believe they're was a clear out as such

    hundreds of staff were got rid off and a sizable amount re employed on new contracts.

    The simple fact here is the unions are greedy, Dublin Bus are next in line once this concludes.


  • #515
    end of the road
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,307 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    Rubbish pure greed as they were transporting more passengers

    not rubbish, no greed.
    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    Weeks, very easy to prepare for a % who will leave and a % who will return.

    years i'd say. not worth the hassle. i would not have been willing to lose my service over some pointless clear out which would have lead to god knows what.
    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    hundreds of staff were got rid off and a sizable amount re employed on new contracts.

    got a generous redundantsy package more like it
    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    The simple fact here is the unions are greedy, Dublin Bus are next in line once this concludes.

    the simple fact here is the unions are not greedy, IE refused to honour an agreement with its staff. i don't see why dublin bus will be brought into this unless they have made agreements with staff which they plan to not honour.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • #516
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,788 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    not rubbish, no greed.

    Justify why not? New trains is not a justification.
    the simple fact here is the unions are not greedy, IE refused to honour an agreement with its staff. i don't see why dublin bus will be brought into this unless they have made agreements with staff which they plan to not honour.

    Not to do with this but both unions will be demanding money form DB in a dispute in the coming weeks.


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  • #517
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,788 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/1029/738383-rail-dispute/
    Unions representing train drivers at Iarnród Éireann have said they accept that drivers will have to drive more, and some jobs could be lost, if they are to achieve a shorter working week and better pensionable pay.

    However, in a joint SIPTU/NBRU bulletin to drivers, the unions accuse management of attempting to divide and conquer with "unhelpful spin" by claiming that a pay rise of 7.9% over three years was on offer to drivers.

    The drivers staged a three-hour stoppage last Friday and are due to take similar industrial action on Friday 6 November.

    Talks at the Workplace Relations Commission aimed at averting the stoppages broke down last Thursday.

    In the bulletin, NBRU General Secretary Dermot O'Leary and SIPTU Assistant Organiser Paul Cullen say that in order for any monies from the 7.9% increase to be made available to drivers, the drivers themselves would have to generate such monies through being more productive.

    Irish Rail has consistently argued that the drivers' demand for a shorter working week would increase the overall drivers' pay bill and require the recruitment of up to 45 additional drivers.

    They have also claimed any such moves would have to be covered by realisable cost savings and efficiencies.

    However, the union negotiators contend that the reduction in working hours recommended by an External Review Group, coupled with a longstanding commitment from the company in relation to realigning contract and rostered hours could form the basis for a solution.

    They say they have even offered to measure how that could be achieved, and accepted that driver numbers would be reduced - but warn they will not give the company a blank cheque on rostering.

    They say an agreed ceiling on driving hours, taking account of various factors could over time deliver an increase in services, a reduction in driver numbers, a reduction in the payroll bill, and an improvement to drivers' terms and conditions.

    SIPTU and the NBRU also tell their members that at last week's talks, the management argued that a previous funding proposal to address problems with the company pension scheme means that no pensionable increases can be awarded to any group of workers before 2023.

    Mr O'Leary and Mr Cullen say this position was neither tenable nor sustainable.

    They describe it as ironic that those who are sent out to negotiate have 100% pensionable salaries, while the pay of train drivers and other frontline operational staff is only 80% pensionable.

    They say around 1,290 staff earning between €55,000 and €100,000 have salaries that are 100% pensionable.

    They say there are around 700 predominantly clerical staff seeking pay rises who also have 100% pensionable pay.

    However, they note that around 1,000 frontline operational staff only have a proportion of their pay factored into calculating their pensions.

    They acknowledge that many of those with fully pensionable pay are covered by longstanding agreements exclusive to their grades.

    Unions also seem to be back in reality: More Work = More Pay = Less Jobs to cover that pay.

    Is the union's agenda slowing becoming undone, now they will happy give drivers the boot and has IE's offer taken the sting out of the dispute among drivers.


  • #518
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,721 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    In the bulletin, NBRU General Secretary Dermot O'Leary and SIPTU Assistant Organiser Paul Cullen say that in order for any monies from the 7.9% increase to be made available to drivers, the drivers themselves would have to generate such monies through being more productive.

    Isn't that quite obvious though, really, you contribute to improving the efficiency of the company which means it saves the company costs which means they are in a position to pay more?

    It's like OMG we may have to actually do something to get that increase.


  • #519
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,721 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/1029/738383-rail-dispute/Is the union's agenda slowing becoming undone, now they will happy give drivers the boot and has IE's offer taken the sting out of the dispute among drivers.

    The junior drivers will probably be the ones to get the boot, and I'd wager that the people who are most in favour of industrial action and this dispute in the company are the more senior staff who are happy to sacrifice some jobs of the junior drivers to protect themselves.


  • #520
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 31,118 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I often wonder if those who advocate "improvements in efficiency" actually think it through!
    We are seeing more and more incidences of major disruption caused by minor incidents, for example when one slightly delayed train causes a major ripple effect through the system, something that would become more pronounced if the rotas are tightened up.

    Reliability in any system requires a bit of "slack" that can be called on to minimize disruption if there are problems elsewhere.

    A good non-rail example is multi drop courier services that have eliminated the "spare time" between deliveries, all it needs is for a crash to happen somewhere on the road network which delays the driver and because there is no slack, a delivery is missed!


  • #521
    end of the road
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,307 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    more services with less drivers, no chance that will happen. we haven't even got the stock anyway

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



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  • #522
    Ctrl Alt Delete
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 789 ✭✭✭Ctrl Alt Delete


    I'd say let them have their reduced working hours, if it means some will lose their jobs.

    Might actually make them show the willingness of their convictions at least. Of course the problem will be that the higher paid drivers will be kept and the lower paid will be dumped out


  • #523
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,721 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    end of the road wrote: »
    more services with less drivers, no chance that will happen. we haven't even got the stock anyway

    I'd far prefer they don't improve the timetable and instead stop the four car DARTS. But that will never happen and they'll be here to stay for a long time to come.

    The moment they started slapping grab handles in the 81xx class rather than simply using the 26+ spare carriages they have every single peak showed you the direction they were heading in.

    It would be far more efficient to just have longer trains.


  • #524
    Stranger Danger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 241 ✭✭Stranger Danger


    devnull wrote: »

    It would be far more efficient to just have longer trains.

    It would be more efficient to have no trains.

    Completely ridiculous that we are funding an inter-city railway system that mirrors what our motorways do but at more cost.


  • #525
    end of the road
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,307 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Stranger Danger wrote: »
    It would be more efficient to have no trains.

    what a load of old rubbish. that nonsense was peddled in the 60s, it failed. time to move on
    Stranger Danger wrote: »
    Completely ridiculous that we are funding an inter-city railway system that mirrors what our motorways do but at more cost.

    no it isn't. trains offer another method of public transport giving choice and competition in methods of public transport. its what any country worth its salt offers and ensures exists. if you think people are going to your precious bus if the trains were removed well, history doesn't seem to back you up i'm afraid. for now at least, the railway is going nowhere. i'd suggest you except it and complain about something that actually is worthwhile complaining about.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • #526
    Stranger Danger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 241 ✭✭Stranger Danger


    end of the road wrote: »
    what a load of old rubbish. that nonsense was peddled in the 60s, it failed. time to move on

    Said the guy with the vested interest in keeping the gravy-trains running.:rolleyes:


    Taxpayers should be demanding answers of Govt. ministers as to why we are spending Billions of our euros on a transportation system that is outmoded, eye-wateringly expensive and completely unnecessary.


    Keeping you feather-bedded in the cosy unionised lifestyle you've grown accustomed to doesn't count as a good reason in my book.


  • #527
    end of the road
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,307 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    devnull wrote: »
    I'd far prefer they don't improve the timetable and instead stop the four car DARTS. But that will never happen and they'll be here to stay for a long time to come.

    The moment they started slapping grab handles in the 81xx class rather than simply using the 26+ spare carriages they have every single peak showed you the direction they were heading in.

    It would be far more efficient to just have longer trains.
    oh i completely agree. however with the stock we have the time table couldn't be improved any more anyway even with short trains. at least dart has enough carriges for long trains if IE were forced to use them, and suburban definitely would if some of their carriges weren't taken away to operate long distance services on the connolly side. but you are right, nothing will change anytime soon if at all

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • #528
    end of the road
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,307 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Stranger Danger wrote: »
    Said the guy with the vested interest in keeping the gravy-trains running.

    ah jaysus. vested interest, coming from your good self? pot, kettle
    Stranger Danger wrote: »
    Taxpayers should be demanding answers of Govt. ministers as to why we are spending Billions of our euros on a transportation system that is outmoded, eye-wateringly expensive and completely unnecessary.

    why would i as a tax payer demand an answer as to why we are spending a few million on a transport system which is very modern and offers another method of transport and transport competition when i all ready know the answer as to why that is? such transport competition is very necessary as it ensures a method for as many different people as possible which is a good thing and must continue. i'd hardly call it "eye-wateringly" expensive considering rail will always be more expensive to the user then other methods, all though i would like to see more extras being provided both on trains and at stations like go car type deals to both make the experience on trains better and make the fares better value for money.
    Stranger Danger wrote: »
    Keeping you feather-bedded in the cosy unionised lifestyle you've grown accustomed to doesn't count as a good reason in my book.

    well seeing as i'm not a member of a union, don't work for CIE, never mentioned that as a reason, then i'd suggest you withdraw that little rant and get over it that the railway is here to stay

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • #529
    Ctrl Alt Delete
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 789 ✭✭✭Ctrl Alt Delete


    I'll just leave this link here ;)


  • #530
    Richard tea
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,597 ✭✭✭Richard tea


    Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »
    I'll just leave this link here ;)


    Well? Have you a question? My apologies if I have missed an earlier discussion.


  • #531
    Ctrl Alt Delete
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 789 ✭✭✭Ctrl Alt Delete


    edited to the proper link this time


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  • #532
    Mycro
    Registered Users Posts: 153 ✭✭Mycro


    With the risk of strike action looming again for this week, could someone clarify for what past productivity the drivers are seeking recognition?


  • #533
    Infini
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,573 ✭✭✭Infini


    Mycro wrote: »
    With the risk of strike action looming again for this week, could someone clarify for what past productivity the drivers are seeking recognition?

    Probably gonna go ahead if not escalate. The whole productivity thing is a difficult thing for me to describe it could be down to changes in rosters or taking on duties of previously other grades for example. Whole problem is the issues have been left to fester too long till they explode. Government is apparently getting involved now by sending in their top negotiator to try and find some ground. Dont know if anything will happen though in the next 2 days tho.


  • #534
    Mycro
    Registered Users Posts: 153 ✭✭Mycro


    Infini2 wrote: »
    The whole productivity thing is a difficult thing for me to describe it could be down to changes in rosters or taking on duties of previously other grades for example.

    What sort of additional duties? Have the additional duties resulted in more hours at work for the same pay?


  • #535
    Infini
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,573 ✭✭✭Infini


    Mycro wrote: »
    What sort of additional duties? Have the additional duties resulted in more hours at work for the same pay?

    Yeah its something like that its in part because of the gutting of staff levels. Means people have to take more on for nothing. People agreed to do things like this in return for recognition and then the company backs out.

    Problem as well is that the company side has been rather belligerrent and alot of it seems to be down to franks trying to railroad through his agenda (no pun intended).

    Then hes sending out letters to the drivers homes (again) saying they should agree to this. This is only gonna make things worse as that looks like its the company trying to intimidate the drivers by making their families worry. If anything not only is it rather dirty but it ends up polarising and militising the issues.

    If things escalate then it could mean work to rule next. If that happens certain sevices wont run and their will be little notice because it will mean drivers refusing to work overtime. Thats when things get ugly.


  • #536
    Mycro
    Registered Users Posts: 153 ✭✭Mycro


    What is the increase in hours per week that has gone unpaid as a result of the past productivity improvements?


  • #537
    Wild Garlic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 730 ✭✭✭Wild Garlic


    Infini2 wrote: »
    Yeah its something like that its in part because of the gutting of staff levels. Means people have to take more on for nothing. People agreed to do things like this in return for recognition and then the company backs out.

    Problem as well is that the company side has been rather belligerrent and alot of it seems to be down to franks trying to railroad through his agenda (no pun intended).

    Then hes sending out letters to the drivers homes (again) saying they should agree to this. This is only gonna make things worse as that looks like its the company trying to intimidate the drivers by making their families worry. If anything not only is it rather dirty but it ends up polarising and militising the issues.

    If things escalate then it could mean work to rule next. If that happens certain sevices wont run and their will be little notice because it will mean drivers refusing to work overtime. Thats when things get ugly.
    What extra duties did the drivers get?


  • #538
    GLaDOS
    Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 23,233 Mod ✭✭✭✭GLaDOS


    http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/government-to-intervene-in-irish-rail-dispute-703979.html
    Government officials are set to make a last ditch effort to prevent Friday's planned dispute involving Irish Rail drivers from taking place.

    It is understood that representatives for Transport Minister, Paschal Donohoe, are set to try and broker a deal to try and prevent the planned stoppage from going ahead.

    Kieran Mulvey of the Labour Relations Commission is also set to invite union officials to crunch talks in the Workplace Relations Commission in a bid to prevent Friday's strike.

    Any chance of the strike being averted? Doesn't seem very likely at this stage.

    Cake, and grief counseling, will be available at the conclusion of the test



  • #539
    kidneyfan
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,279 ✭✭✭kidneyfan


    Stranger Danger wrote: »
    It would be more efficient to have no trains.

    Completely ridiculous that we are funding an inter-city railway system that mirrors what our motorways do but at more cost.
    I love trains but Ireland shouldn't have any trains.


  • #540
    end of the road
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,307 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    kidneyfan wrote: »
    I love trains but Ireland shouldn't have any trains.


    yeah. seriously, time to move on from this 1960s nonsense. tried, didn't work. been there done that as they say

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



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  • #541
    kidneyfan
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,279 ✭✭✭kidneyfan


    end of the road wrote: »
    yeah. seriously, time to move on from this 1960s nonsense. tried, didn't work. been there done that as they say
    I love trains but they don't suit Irish settlement patterns or national culture.


  • #542
    end of the road
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,307 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    kidneyfan wrote: »
    I love trains but they don't suit Irish settlement patterns or national culture.

    no no . they don't suit some. the vast majority of lines pass through large towns, so clearly do suit many patterns. what "national culture" don't they suit? trains are here to stay for now, get used to it. no nonsense about national culture will change it

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • #543
    Peppa Pig
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,670 ✭✭✭Peppa Pig


    end of the road wrote: »
    the vast majority of lines pass through large towns,
    It would be fairly stupid if they didn't :rolleyes:
    All motorways go near large towns and cities, not just most.


  • #544
    Thargor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,004 ✭✭✭✭Thargor


    Can anyone remember the effect on evening rush hour traffic after last time? Thinking of getting a Gobus out of Dublin at aroun 17:45 but will the city be gridlocked with all the extra cars tomorrow?


  • #545
    end of the road
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,307 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Peppa Pig wrote: »
    It would be fairly stupid if they didn't
    All motorways go near large towns and cities, not just most.
    and? his posts are still invalid, so we are done here on this.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • #546
    kidneyfan
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,279 ✭✭✭kidneyfan


    end of the road wrote: »
    no no . they don't suit some. the vast majority of lines pass through large towns, so clearly do suit many patterns. what "national culture" don't they suit? trains are here to stay for now, get used to it. no nonsense about national culture will change it
    the national culture they don't suit is lateness. Irish Rail can't run trains on time. Their statistics are dishonest. A train that is 1 minute late is unacceptably late.


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  • #547
    end of the road
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,307 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    kidneyfan wrote: »
    the national culture they don't suit is lateness.

    thats not national culture.
    kidneyfan wrote: »
    Irish Rail can't run trains on time.

    can they not? any? surely the odd train does arrive on time? certainly could do better i'd agree.
    kidneyfan wrote: »
    Their statistics are dishonest.

    sure, that could be the case.
    kidneyfan wrote: »
    A train that is 1 minute late is unacceptably late.

    yeah, but we don't live in an ideal world. we live in the real 1. and in the real 1 trains are often 1 minute late in plenty of countries due to various reasons. you will never have a railway where every train arrives on time, every time. and anyone who says such a railway exists, i'm not sure i could believe them. anyway, its irrelevant to this thread

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • #548
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 31,118 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I often wonder if those who advocate "improvements in efficiency" actually think it through!
    We are seeing more and more incidences of major disruption caused by minor incidents, for example when one slightly delayed train causes a major ripple effect through the system, something that would become more pronounced if the rotas are tightened up.

    Reliability in any system requires a bit of "slack" that can be called on to minimize disruption if there are problems elsewhere.

    A good non-rail example is multi drop courier services that have eliminated the "spare time" between deliveries, all it needs is for a crash to happen somewhere on the road network which delays the driver and because there is no slack, a delivery is missed!
    OK quoting my own post, but had a real life example this morning.
    The trains were running late into Heuston this morning and one of the outbound trains (the one I was on) was severely delayed because the driver hadn't arrived yet!
    He was stuck on a red inbound to the station!


  • #549
    Stranger Danger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 241 ✭✭Stranger Danger


    end of the road wrote: »
    and? his posts are still invalid, so we are done here on this.

    You have no arguments, that much is obvious.

    Ireland needs to ditch the intercity rail network, rip up the lines and replace them with green ways.
    The private and public sector bus companies can compete against each other for the new passangers, offering actual choice and competition.
    The exchequer saves billions to invest in proper infrastructure.
    Meanwhile we market ourselves as the words premier cycling destination and start pulling in foreign tourists by the shed load.

    There you go.

    I've saved the country billions with no downsides and best of all we never have to listen whingy train drivers moaning about their cosseted jobs again.

    My points are invalid?

    You wish.


  • #550
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 31,118 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Stranger Danger wrote: »
    You have no arguments, that much is obvious.

    Ireland needs to ditch the intercity rail network, rip up the lines and replace them with green ways.
    The private and public sector bus companies can compete against each other for the new passangers, offering actual choice and competition.
    The exchequer saves billions to invest in proper infrastructure.
    Meanwhile we market ourselves as the words premier cycling destination and start pulling in foreign tourists by the shed load.

    There you go.

    I've saved the country billions with no downsides and best of all we never have to listen whingy train drivers moaning about their cosseted jobs again.

    My points are invalid?

    You wish.
    Your argument would carry more weight if we were in a world with cheap and infinite supply of fossil fuel, as it is, we don't and future generations will be very grateful if we don't destroy one of the most fuel efficient forms of transportation that is available.


  • #551
    end of the road
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,307 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Stranger Danger wrote: »
    You have no arguments, that much is obvious.

    i have. plenty. that much is both obvious and fact
    Stranger Danger wrote: »
    Ireland needs to ditch the intercity rail network

    it doesn't.
    Stranger Danger wrote: »
    rip up the lines and replace them with green ways.

    plenty of existing areas for greenways for those who want them
    Stranger Danger wrote: »
    The private and public sector bus companies can compete against each other for the new passangers

    what new passengers. the rail users will be going to the car. you would have reduced competition and all for nothing.
    Stranger Danger wrote: »
    offering actual choice and competition.

    with what. the current system offers even more competition and choice then your nonsense ideas ever could. you want to reduce competition.
    Stranger Danger wrote: »
    The exchequer saves billions to invest in proper infrastructure.

    does it? like what. nothing?
    Stranger Danger wrote: »
    Meanwhile we market ourselves as the words premier cycling destination and start pulling in foreign tourists by the shed load.

    deluded. we have plenty of existing areas for greenways. ireland will never be the premier world cycling destination. not going to happen.
    Stranger Danger wrote: »
    There you go. I've saved the country billions with no downsides and best of all we never have to listen whingy train drivers moaning about their cosseted jobs again.

    you have saved nothing. just spouted nonsense that was all ready tried and didn't work. if the company made an agreement with its staff and then don't follow thrugh on that agreement then the staff have every right to call them out on it
    Stranger Danger wrote: »
    My points are invalid? ou wish.

    i've no need to wish, they are indeed invalid.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



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