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Web Summit quits Dublin

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Comments

  • #572
    Tarzana2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,553 ✭✭✭Tarzana2


    flouncer wrote: »
    but they did get up off their arse and do something while paying minimum rates to employees.

    Go them? :confused:


  • #573
    brooke 2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,472 ✭✭✭brooke 2


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    Maybe he doesnt lie but misleads people. He certainly mislead a large number in 2009


    http://www.irishelection.com/2009/04/micandidateeu-the-full-analysis/

    I am not surprised the government has given him the cold shoulder. I imagine after 'Rock The Vote' and 'MiCandidate' there are many people who have more than the measure of Paddy!

    'Five interns to one paid employee'; 'Paddy likes to mix his databases'!!!
    :mad::mad:


  • #574
    Muahahaha
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,771 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    Tarzana2 wrote: »

    Your posts come off like you are either involved in the event, or are simply a dog with a bone with no particular interest other than to prove yourself right. Or have a big grudge against the civil service.

    And you've now trotted out "begrudgery". Goodnight and good luck.

    I've nothing to do with the event except for attending back in 2010. I realised it was all waffle then and didn't attend in 2011, despite Cosgraves clock ticking down sales tactics. I'm not here to defend him, I happen to hold the view that his conference was worth a lot of money to the economy and that it could have been used as a blueprint to sell other conferences and make Dublin a destination for private events in the 30,000-50,000 range. If other cities can get a couple of million conference attendees annually I don't see why Dublin (or even Cork) can't aim for 500,000 annually.

    The begrudgery is obvious on this thread. When I said yesterday that Cosgrave is very successful and his company is worth €60m certain posters had a jealously fit, its all there for you to see


    smash wrote: »
    But sure you keep saying that they did nothing...

    They engaged him, messed him about and did nothing. They should have just said talk to XYZ, if they did that then we wouldn't even be discussing this at all. But they didn't, they messed him about taking 2 weeks to reply to an email, even then it was a one line reply. It was the stuff of incompetence, all the while Enda preaches to the media about how 'Irelands open for Business' and sure ring me up, I'll help you out.
    smash wrote: »
    I've stated on numerous occasions that this isn't true. I just don't like how the guy operates. But keep on defending him. With every post you make, it sounds more and more like you're actually him.

    You must be blind or deluded because I've slagged Cosgrave off on this thread quite enough. I couldn't give a dam about him, what I do care is about is our Taoiseach and senior civil servants doing their job- i.e making sure money comes into the economy from abroad. In case you didn't know Ireland is one of the most open economies in the world and we have a higher need for foreign capital than most others. The WS offered the chance of foreign capital for a conference followed up (hopefully) by FDI from executives who like the cut of Ireland having visited here themselves and then decide to invest further. If you don't get that simple premise it shows you have no business nous whatsoever. We;ve lost all those executives, Dublins loss is very much Lisbons gain, only an idiot would argue that having some of the tech worlds most influential people in town for a few days is not a good idea for attracting future investments and job creation. But Smash your posts show consistently that you don't want the WS here, you don't like Paddy and are happy to see him leave for Lisbon. Fair enough :rolleyes:


  • #575
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    Muahahaha wrote: »
    The begrudgery is obvious on this thread. When I said yesterday that Cosgrave is very successful and his company is worth €60m certain posters had a jealously fit, its all there for you to see
    I don't recall any jealousy fits. Perhaps you could point them out.
    Muahahaha wrote: »
    They engaged him, messed him about and did nothing.
    A minute ago you said they offered him a plan. Which is admitting they did something.
    Muahahaha wrote: »
    They should have just said talk to XYZ, if they did that then we wouldn't even be discussing this at all. But they didn't, they messed him about taking 2 weeks to reply to an email, even then it was a one line reply. It was the stuff of incompetence, all the while Enda preaches to the media about how 'Irelands open for Business' and sure ring me up, I'll help you out.
    Most of Paddy's emails were one line.
    Muahahaha wrote: »
    You must be blind or deluded because I've slagged Cosgrave off on this thread quite enough. I couldn't give a dam about him, what I do care is about is our Taoiseach and senior civil servants doing their job- i.e making sure money comes into the economy from abroad. In case you didn't know Ireland is one of the most open economies in the world and we have a higher need for foreign capital than most others. The WS offered the chance of foreign capital for a conference followed up (hopefully) by FDI from executives who like the cut of Ireland having visited here themselves and then decide to invest further. If you don't get that simple premise it shows you have no business nous whatsoever.
    I'm neither deluded or blind, and I have a business that's ticking over pretty nicely thanks.
    Muahahaha wrote: »
    We;ve lost all those executives, Dublins loss is very much Lisbons gain,
    That remains to be seen.
    Muahahaha wrote: »
    only an idiot would argue that having some of the tech worlds most influential people in town for a few days is not a good idea for attracting future investments and job creation.
    But nobody's arguing that.
    Muahahaha wrote: »
    But Smash your posts show consistently that you don't want the WS here,
    But I didn't say that.
    Muahahaha wrote: »
    you don't like Paddy and are happy to see him leave for Lisbon. Fair enough :rolleyes:
    This bits true.


  • #576
    Muahahaha
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,771 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    smash wrote: »

    I'm neither deluded or blind, and I have a business that's ticking over pretty nicely thanks.


    That remains to be seen.


    But nobody's arguing that.


    But I didn't say that.


    This bits true.

    If you ran a business you'd ne the first to condemn the senior civil servants taking 2 weeks to answer an email. O have yet to hear you do that. Do you take two weeks to answer an email in your business? I suspect not because if you did you wouldn't have one for long.

    Which is the point I'm making, Enda constantly tells us how he is pro-business but when it comes down to it everything is just spin. If they wanted to sit down with Cosgrave to see what was possible to keep the gig here then they could of. They chose not to, instead ignoring him for weeks at a time and generally messing him about with plans for a plan. There's no getting away from that fact that the Dept of the Taoiseach come out of this very badly and they have done Ireland some dis-service. Because they haven't a busness head between them and the Lisbon lot do Ireland loses out. Its that simple.


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  • #577
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    Muahahaha wrote: »
    If you ran a business you'd ne the first to condemn the senior civil servants taking 2 weeks to answer an email. O have yet to hear you do that. Do you take two weeks to answer an email in your business? I suspect not because if you did you wouldn't have one for long.
    You use the phrase 'senior civil servants' to almost make it sound like he was emailing an administrator in a local council office(which ironically is what he should have been doing) when in fact he was emailing the leader of the country to tell him to organise his event for him! All while the Dail were returning from summer recess and trying to deliver a budget.

    So it took them 2 weeks to reply to an email containing threats to fix issues that they can't fix... Should they have replied earlier? Probably. And the reply should have said "cop on Paddy, you've been doing this for years and you know who you should be talking to. Don't threaten us again."
    Muahahaha wrote: »
    Which is the point I'm making, Enda constantly tells us how he is pro-business but when it comes down to it everything is just spin. If they wanted to sit down with Cosgrave to see what was possible to keep the gig here then they could of. They chose not to, instead ignoring him for weeks at a time and generally messing him about with plans for a plan. There's no getting away from that fact that the Dept of the Taoiseach come out of this very badly and they have done Ireland some dis-service. Because they haven't a busness head between them and the Lisbon lot do Ireland loses out. Its that simple.
    Paddy came out of this a whole lot worse, and he did his country a disservice by attempting to slate us just because he couldn't event manage his event. He came across as a spoiled brat!

    Can I ask you if you're going to blame the government of the summit some how falls apart this year with regards to wifi issues etc?


  • #578
    Tarzana2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,553 ✭✭✭Tarzana2


    Muahahaha wrote: »
    The begrudgery is obvious on this thread. When I said yesterday that Cosgrave is very successful and his company is worth €60m certain posters had a jealously fit, its all there for you to see

    http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Jennifer-Lawrence-ok-thumbs-up.gif


  • #579
    Emmy Unsightly Spoon
    Posts: 24,816 ✭✭✭✭ Emmy Unsightly Spoon


    Muahahaha wrote: »
    Oh yes they did engage him, if you think they didn't they why did they produce a draft plan for him? How is that not engaging him? You're trying to shift the goalposts now that you've lost this part of the argument. It simply cannot be said that they did not engage him when they were spending time and man hours producing draft frameworks for him. Not engaging him would have meant they said 'go talk to XYZ', they never did that because they engaged him
    DCC prepared the draft plan. Not the Office of the Taoiseach.

    Where is the evidence that anyone in the Office of the Taoiseach spent any man hours producing draft frameworks for anyone?
    Muahahaha wrote: »
    Its Endas words not mine. But becasue it doesn't suit your argument you're now saying it is irrelevant. More goalpost shifting from you. By your logic the economy will be better off without the €108m, you seem like you would prefer we not have it the way you're posting on here
    Enda isn't a fascist dictator who's word is gospel. He's a populist spoofer like 99.995% of our politicians.
    They know that they can make statements that they don't have to follow through on, heck, he's not even allowed follow through on it (unless corruption).

    So when Enda says 'call me, we'll sort something out' - the smart thing to do is recognise that as a slogan, and not a way for you to walk away from your own responsibilities as an event manager and instead believe that you can now 'outsource' those duties to the Office of the Taoiseach!
    Muahahaha wrote: »
    So first you didn't believe me and went searching, you couldn't find out anything about it and then came back here boasting about it. When I show you the evidence its 'fair enough', lol!
    Yes. I ceded the point that he said something because I was shown that he said something. This is a logical thing to do. My ignorance of his previous quote doesn't change any of the points I've raised.
    Muahahaha wrote: »
    The fact Enda Kenny gave out his phone number and told executives to ring him if they needed their business problems solved shows that Paddy Cosgrave did what Kenny said executives of a global company should do.
    Enda Kenny is the Taoiseach of the Government, not a 'Fixer'.
    Muahahaha wrote: »
    Your argument was that the Dept of the Taoiseach has nothing to do with helping businesses, that argument is now torn to shreds by the evidence of Enda himself 'Irelands Open for Business' he claims, ring me! Yet when entrepruneurs like Cosgrave do just that they get short shrift from an unprofessional bunch of senior civil servants.
    As above, Enda is not a dictator who can re-write the remit of the Office of the Taoiseach on a whim. He does not have benevolent powers to appropriate the Office to assist private companies in increasing their profits. Enda spoofing does not 'shred' my argument at all. It's just Enda spoofing.
    If Paddy Cosgrave believed Enda fully (he didn't), to the extent that he stopped trying to organise the matters that he 'passed' to the Office of the Taoiseach, then more fool him.
    Muahahaha wrote: »
    Look you've already proved that you're not very good at searching. But heres a tip- I posted 3 clear things from his list of asks that they could have done and they are all there for everyone to see. If you aren't smart enough to find them then it ain't my job to show you.
    I've repeatedly asked for a single tangible example of a single tangible thing that you would be happy for the Office of the Taoiseach to do on behalf of Paddy Cosgrave's private business.

    Regarding your '3 items', you've actually not offered a single thing that the Department of the Taoiseach would do to facilitate them. You've offered the result, but not the function. Show your workings so that we might understand what you expected the Office of the Taoiseach to do for WebSummit/Paddy Cosgrave.

    You've already accepted that the Office was not the avenue for any of what Paddy was looking for, why row back on it now?

    I find it strange to have to re-write this post so many times. Why not just answer it?


  • #580
    jimmynokia
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,467 ✭✭✭jimmynokia


    Paddy just tweeted his tickets will sell out in 12 hours, nearly fell off my chair laughing.


  • #581
    Red_Wake
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,571 ✭✭✭Red_Wake


    jimmynokia wrote: »
    Paddy just tweeted his tickets will sell out in 12 hours, nearly fell off my chair laughing.
    In.


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  • #582
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    jimmynokia wrote: »
    Paddy just tweeted his tickets will sell out in 12 hours, nearly fell off my chair laughing.
    Got an email about an hour ago to say there's only 131 tickets left!

    Sure there is...


  • #583
    5rtytry56
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,828 ✭✭✭5rtytry56


    smash wrote: »
    Got an email about an hour ago to say there's only 131 tickets left!

    Sure there is...
    I'm gonna buy all 131 and then flog them on eBay with a highly inflated price. :rolleyes: as if.
    Dream on Paddy.


  • #584
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    5rtytry56 wrote: »
    I'm gonna buy all 131 and then flog them on eBay with a highly inflated price. :rolleyes: as if.
    Dream on Paddy.

    Sure you'll be loaded! There's already lots of people trying to off load their tickets on donedeal, toutless etc.


  • #585
    Muahahaha
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,771 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    smash wrote: »
    You use the phrase 'senior civil servants' to almost make it sound like he was emailing an administrator in a local council office(which ironically is what he should have been doing) when in fact he was emailing the leader of the country to tell him to organise his event for him! All while the Dail were returning from summer recess and trying to deliver a budget.

    So yesterday you were moaning about me using the word conference to describe the WS and today you're moaning about me using the phrase 'senior civil servants'. Its obvious you are not aware that thats what these people are called. 'Senior civil servants' refers to the people at the top of each govt dept, it always has in Irish politics and the Irish media so just because you think it refers to county council officials doesn't make it so. 'Senior civil servants' refers to grades like Secretary General and Assistant General, aka 'the permanent govt'. To say otherwise shows your complete lack of knowledge of what a senior civil servant is.

    Deleted User wrote: »
    DCC prepared the draft plan. Not the Office of the Taoiseach.

    Where is the evidence that anyone in the Office of the Taoiseach spent any man hours producing draft frameworks for anyone?

    Ah now things are becoming clearer and now I know you haven't even read the emails between Cosgrave and the Dept of the Taoiseach. Because if you had you would know (and be able to read) the draft framework produced by none other than the Taoiseachs right hand man. For the second time in as many days your knowledge on this topic and your ability to search for it has been shown up. Yesterday you didn't know Enda had given out his phone number to executives and told them to call him, you asked me for proof and I provided it. Today its all about your claim that no-one in the Taoiseachs office spent time formulating a draft framework to engage him further, which again is false. You would have saved yourself the embarrassment if you had of just read the emails to begin with and come to the debate with adequate knowledge before you began debating it
    I've repeatedly asked for a single tangible example of a single tangible thing that you would be happy for the Office of the Taoiseach to do on behalf of Paddy Cosgrave's private business.

    You've already accepted that the Office was not the avenue for any of what Paddy was looking for, why row back on it now?

    I find it strange to have to re-write this post so many times. Why not just answer it?

    Well I'm glad to see that you managed to find out to use the search function to find the points I posted, because I sure wasn't repeating myself multiple times.

    In short (and I now believe this is the 4th time I've posted this).

    I think the Dept of Taoiseach
    1) Should never have engaged him. But they did so it was them who put the monkey on their own back, nobody else. I've said numerous times now they should have said 'go talk to ABC, heres their number', they had this opportunity and didn't take it, instead choosing to engage him before cocking the entire thing up
    2) Of the 'asks' the extra Dublin Buses, Gardai and road closures should have been provided, as is normal for large events. Cosgraves event had grown from a couple of thousand to 30,000 in 5 years with projections to grow to 50,000. There comes a time for all events that they need extra buses and roads to be temporily closed. I've stated that none of these should be 'freebies' but instead paid for by the WS, in the same way MCD pay for Gardai outside the venue, as do Croke Park, etc, etc
    3) Finally the Dept of the Taoiseach is the most powerful govt Dept full stop. They have more hard and soft power than any other dept. I think Charles Haughey showed that to be the case often enough during his time there


  • #586
    Emmy Unsightly Spoon
    Posts: 24,816 ✭✭✭✭ Emmy Unsightly Spoon


    Muahahaha wrote: »
    2) Of the 'asks' the extra Dublin Buses, Gardai and road closures should have been provided, as is normal for large events. Cosgraves event had grown from a couple of thousand to 30,000 in 5 years with projections to grow to 50,000. There comes a time for all events that they need extra buses and roads to be temporily closed. I've stated that none of these should be 'freebies' but instead paid for by the WS, in the same way MCD pay for Gardai outside the venue, as do Croke Park, etc, etc
    there

    By the office of the Taoiseach?

    Do you think that the Taoiseach should have asked the civil servants in his office to organise these standard event management issues for Paddy Cosgrave?

    Yes or no?

    Ridiculous how often I have had to ask this very same question so I've cut all the noise out.


  • #587
    Muahahaha
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,771 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    Deleted User wrote: »
    By the office of the Taoiseach?

    Do you think that the Taoiseach should have asked the civil servants in his office to organise these standard event management things for Paddy Cosgrave?

    Yes or no?

    Ridiculous how often I have had to ask this very same question so I've cut all the noise out.


    Ah jaysis will you please take the effort to read my posts. For the 5th time they should not have engaged him, the proper thing to do was tell him 'go talk to XYZ, here's their number. Whats actually ridiculous is how often I've answered the same question- 5 times now and yet still you don't seem to get it

    Have you read that draft framework that the Dept of the Taoiseach worked on for Cosgrave yet?


  • #588
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    Muahahaha wrote: »
    So yesterday you were moaning about me using the word conference to describe the WS and today you're moaning about me using the phrase 'senior civil servants'. Its obvious you are not aware that thats what these people are called. 'Senior civil servants' refers to the people at the top of each govt dept, it always has in Irish politics and the Irish media so just because you think it refers to county council officials doesn't make it so. 'Senior civil servants' refers to grades like Secretary General and Assistant General, aka 'the permanent govt'. To say otherwise shows your complete lack of knowledge of what a senior civil servant is.
    Do everyone a favour and get back in your box. You change your terminology constantly to try and make your non existing points seem in some way valid after your previous argument has fallen flat on it's face. You've been knocked back at every point in the thread and you can not admit it so you've resulted to petty insults towards other posters and throwing out allegations of begrudgery and other such nonsense when you can't take a bit of slack.


  • #589
    Emmy Unsightly Spoon
    Posts: 24,816 ✭✭✭✭ Emmy Unsightly Spoon


    Muahahaha wrote: »
    Ah jaysis will you please take the effort to read my posts. For the 5th time they should not have engaged him, the proper thing to do was tell him 'go talk to XYZ, here's their number.
    Can you not just answer the question? Quid Pro Quo.

    Do you think that the Taoiseach should have asked the civil servants in his office to organise these standard event management things for Paddy Cosgrave?

    Yes or no?
    Muahahaha wrote: »
    Have you read that draft framework that the Dept of the Taoiseach worked on for Cosgrave yet?

    https://files.websummit.net/correspondence.pdf

    The one where they tell him who he should be contacting? That he already knew of course, this not being his first year running events in the country...

    A very fair summation of their framework document is that it was a directory of the people he needed to talk to to organise his event. All information he had to hand obviously.

    The very first email of substance from Nick Reddy (September 10th) says this
    Nick Reddy wrote:
    In this context it has to be said that some of the logistical concerns that you have raised are, fundamentally, contractual matters between you and your venue and/or service providers, where there is limited if any role for the Government.

    i.e, what do you even think we can do? Which is what I've asked you to answer too...


  • #590
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    Muahahaha wrote: »
    2) Of the 'asks' the extra Dublin Buses, Gardai and road closures should have been provided, as is normal for large events. Cosgraves event had grown from a couple of thousand to 30,000 in 5 years with projections to grow to 50,000. There comes a time for all events that they need extra buses and roads to be temporily closed.

    For someone who likes to harp on about the subject, you don't seem to know a lot about what's gone on. So I'll break it down for you.

    Extra Dublin Buses
    He asked for this, but on top of it he also asked for specific routes to be created to collect and drop off delegates to hotels. He did not state the hotels, the routes, the projected capacity required. And not only did he want that for free, he also wanted the tax payers to subsidise free leap cards to all attendees too.

    Gardai and road closures should have been provided
    They are already going to be provided. He just doesn't want to pay for it.

    There comes a time for all events that they need extra buses and roads to be temporily closed
    Roads will be re-routed as has happened for ALL large events in the RDS. Extra private buses should be paid for by PC himself. An event of 30,000 attendees does not require any additional closures or bus routes over the likes of an event like the young scientist exhibition who brought in, what was it? 59,000 people this year without any hassle!
    Muahahaha wrote: »
    I've stated that none of these should be 'freebies' but instead paid for by the WS, in the same way MCD pay for Gardai outside the venue, as do Croke Park, etc, etc
    So tell me then, what the fcuk did you want the government to do about it?


  • #591
    Muahahaha
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,771 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    smash wrote: »
    Do everyone a favour and get back in your box. You change your terminology constantly to try and make your non existing points seem in some way valid after your previous argument has fallen flat on it's face. You've been knocked back at every point in the thread and you can not admit it so you've resulted to petty insults towards other posters and throwing out allegations of begrudgery and other such nonsense when you can't take a bit of slack.

    haha thats given me a laugh. You're the one who didn't know who 'senior civil servants' refers to. If you take the wrong meaning out of commonly used phrases in Irish politics and media it ain't my fault. And it was you who raised it, not me.

    There's plenty of begrudgery in this thread, and in Ireland in general. That might not be you but I think you're already on record as saying you hate Paddy Cosgrave. People tend to begrudge others who are successful, its pretty common in Irish discourse.


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  • #592
    Muahahaha
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,771 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Can you not just answer the question? Quid Pro Quo.

    Do you think that the Taoiseach should have asked the civil servants in his office to organise these standard event management things for Paddy Cosgrave?

    Yes or no?

    I think the Dept of Taoiseach should never have engaged him. What do you think is the logical inference from that in respect of your question that you keep asking? If they don't engage him then how the hell would they be organising an event with him? Really now :rolleyes:


  • #593
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    Muahahaha wrote: »
    haha thats given me a laugh. You're the one who didn't know who 'senior civil servants' refers to. If you take the wrong meaning out of commonly used phrases in Irish politics and media it ain't my fault. And it was you who raised it, not me.
    I did know who it referred to. I told you to stop using it because you have used it deliberately in an attempt to dumb the scenario because 'senior civil servants' almost sounds like he took the correct route when the reality is that it wasn't the correct route and who he was actually contacting was not just a civil servant, it was 'The Department of an Taoiseach'.
    Muahahaha wrote: »
    I think the Dept of Taoiseach should never have engaged him.
    See how you state this when you want it to have affect, yet you say senior civil servants when you want to paint a different picture.
    Muahahaha wrote: »
    There's plenty of begrudgery in this thread, and in Ireland in general. That might not be you but I think you're already on record as saying you hate Paddy Cosgrave.
    Actually, I'm clearly on record saying that I don't hate him. And that I don't know him but that I dislike how he operates.


  • #594
    Emmy Unsightly Spoon
    Posts: 24,816 ✭✭✭✭ Emmy Unsightly Spoon


    Muahahaha wrote: »
    I think the Dept of Taoiseach should never have engaged him. What do you think is the logical inference from that in respect of your question that you keep asking? If they don't engage him then how the hell would they be organising an event with him? Really now :rolleyes:

    So the answer is no.

    Which invalidates this
    Muahahaha wrote: »
    All we know is he was dealing with the people right at the very top of government. They were the same people who rang the NASDAQ bell with him so I presume he was talking to the right people. If he wasn't those people never said, instead they engaged him and strung him along. All the while the Portuguese Deputy Prime Minister was usurping the fools in the Taoiseachs Department.
    and this
    Muahahaha wrote: »
    But I'm more concerned in how our excuse of a govt has no vision and ambition instead of going on about what some guy may or may not be.
    and this
    Muahahaha wrote: »
    I'm more interested in how our shambles of a govt spends all its time on photo opportunities in public whilst doing feck all in private to attract conferences of this size and grow the industry.
    and this
    Muahahaha wrote: »
    So the entire thing is Paddys fault and zero blame lies with the senior civil servants who take 2 weeks to reply to important emails? Or zero blame on the politicians who have no vision and no ambition? Meanwhile the Lisbon politicians are taking plaudits for securing the WS for the next 3 years, bringing more than 100,000 people to their city. As I said Dublins loss is very much Lisbons gain, what city wouldn't want that amount of business?
    and this
    Muahahaha wrote: »
    So 250,000 is good enough and we shouldn't try to improve on that? That sounds like the same attitude that the teachers who run this country have.

    And I'm not sure where I said his conference is the be all and end all of anything. As I said its full of waffle. I'm just making the point that our govt missed a trick.

    Tell me why it is that our government cant even show a bit of ambition and grow this industry? The WS was a template for holding large conference in the 30,000-50,000 range. Why didn't they use that to attract even more conferences of that size? Given the conferences on our shores are worth some €1bn why are we not trying to double that to €2bn?
    and this
    Muahahaha wrote: »
    I'm not for one minute suggesting that the Govt drop everything for this. But what I am saying is that they missed a trick. They could have used the WS to showcase the city and attract even bigger conferences in the years to come. There is no doubt they bring money into the economy in winter when hotels are struggling to survive. The Govt could have ran with this and tried to make an industry out of it but instead they chose to do nothing at all. Then again should we expect much more from a bunch of former teachers?

    Incredible amount of work to get you to stop slinging mud where it didn't belong.
    Finally we complete the circle and note that we're right back here
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=97454975&postcount=498
    Where you were told the crux of the issue.
    kidneyfan wrote: »
    He didn't liaise with the appropriate people to get his needs met.
    i.e, the Government can't help with things that the Government can't help with.

    Do you still think that the Government should be blamed for not engaging in favouritism and specialist treatment? (perhaps corruption?)

    Or should Paddy have organised the stuff he needed to organise?


  • #595
    Muahahaha
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,771 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    smash wrote: »
    I did know who it referred to. I told you to stop using it because you have used it deliberately in an attempt to dumb the scenario because 'senior civil servants' almost sounds like he took the correct route when the reality is that it wasn't the correct route and who he was actually contacting was not just a civil servant, it was 'The Department of an Taoiseach'.


    See how you state this when you want it to have affect, yet you say senior civil servants when you want to paint a different picture.

    Ah now, I think you're losing the plot a bit. Because now you're admitting that you knew who it referred to whereas before you said you thought it was some local council officials. If you knew who it referred to, I knew and everyone else who follows Irish political discourse knows what it means then why even raise it?

    I never made out that the Dept of Taoiseach and senior civil servants are not the same thing. Its not my fault if you took the wrong meaning out of commonly used phrases, I really don't see why you're trying to blame me for meanings that you took out of words, I only used them in the context that they are typically used in.

    And just one more thing on this- you don't have the right on here to tell any poster to stop using a phrase, so I don't know why you're trying to demand it of me. And it certainly won't work
    Actually, I'm clearly on record saying that I don't hate him. And that I don't know him but that I dislike how he operates.

    So you dislike 'how he operates'. Now you're attacking his modus operandi. Once he operates within the laws of the land I don't have any probems with how he wants to operate. If you do then you should stand for election and change the laws of the land to stop him operating in the way that insults you so much.


  • #596
    Muahahaha
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,771 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    Deleted User wrote: »
    So the answer is no.

    Which invalidates this


    and this

    and this

    and this

    and this

    and this

    Emmet yet again the point has gone straight over your head. I don't think the DoT should have engaged him. However they did, thats the central point here. In my mind best practice was to tell him to talk to XYZ, they never did that. Once they engaged him they had a responsibility to do so in a professional and competent manner. They didn't do this, in fact they dragged their heels for several weeks before hastily preparing a draft framework at the last minute when they knew the Lisbon announcement was imminent.

    If the DoT had of said go talk to the Gardai, DCC, etc I would have said fair enough, thats the correct thing to do. But they didn't do that, instead they led him up a garden path and then ignored him. This is the way the top echelons of our govt work, we have a Taoiseach who gets paiid more than the US President and who is surrounded by a phalanx of senior civil servants getting paid €150k+ and then the raft of 'special advisers' too. Why are we paying them all this money if they can't even reply to a simple email?

    Are you seriously saying that the Dept of the Taoiseach acting were a competent and professional manner here?


  • #597
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    Muahahaha wrote: »
    Ah now, I think you're losing the plot a bit. Because now you're admitting that you knew who it referred to whereas before you said you thought it was some local council officials.
    Did I? Let me check... "You use the phrase 'senior civil servants' to almost make it sound like he was emailing an administrator in a local council office(which ironically is what he should have been doing) when in fact he was emailing the leader of the country to tell him to organise his event for him!"

    No, no I didn't.
    Muahahaha wrote: »
    If you knew who it referred to, I knew and everyone else who follows Irish political discourse knows what it means then why even raise it?
    Because Read my reply above.
    Muahahaha wrote: »
    I never made out that the Dept of Taoiseach and senior civil servants are not the same thing. Its not my fault if you took the wrong meaning out of commonly used phrases, I really don't see why you're trying to blame me for meanings that you took out of words, I only used them in the context that they are typically used in.
    I didn't take it up wrong, read above... again.
    Muahahaha wrote: »
    And just one more thing on this- you don't have the right on here to tell any poster to stop using a phrase, so I don't know why you're trying to demand it of me. And it certainly won't work
    Never said I had a right. It was just an ask... or request. Like Paddy did.
    Muahahaha wrote: »
    So you dislike 'how he operates'. Now you're attacking his modus operandi.
    Does dislike mean attack now?
    Muahahaha wrote: »
    Once he operates within the laws of the land I don't have any probems with how he wants to operate.
    Does operating within the laws of the land mean demanding that the government do your job for you? Either way, I don't care what your answer is. No doubt it will be unclear and diluted with copious amounts of bollox.
    Muahahaha wrote: »
    If you do then you should stand for election and change the laws of the land to stop him operating in the way that insults you so much.
    sure...
    Muahahaha wrote: »
    Emmet yet again the point has gone straight over your head. I don't think the DoT should have engaged him. However they did, thats the central point here. In my mind best practice was to tell him to talk to XYZ, they never did that.
    Have you read the thread? http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=97479349&postcount=591


  • #598
    Muahahaha
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,771 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    Never said I had a right. It was just an ask... or request. Like Paddy did.

    How is this a request? These are your words, not mine by the way
    smash wrote: »
    I did know who it referred to. I told you to stop using it .

    So one minute you claim you 'asked' me but the proof is in the pudding right above. You came on here trying to tell me what I can and cannot say. Sorry but that doesn't cut the mustard, I believe in freedom of speech, even if you do not

    You were the one who said I was using senior civil servants to refer to county council officials. It ain't my fault you confused yourself on commonly used political terms. Senior civil servants always refers to civil servants of a high rank, typically in a govt dept or quango and that is the context I used it in.


  • #599
    ThisRegard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,833 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    Muahahaha wrote: »
    So on one hand you're saying State involvement for US IT companies is good but on the other we shouldn't have state involvement when an Irish company comes asking?

    You honesty can't tell the difference between grants and aid, areas within state agencies remit, and what you actually expected the taoiseach to do?


  • #600
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    Muahahaha wrote: »
    How is this a request? These are your words, not mine by the way

    Looks like a request to me.
    Muahahaha wrote: »
    So one minute you claim you 'asked' me but the proof is in the pudding right above. You came on here trying to tell me what I can and cannot say. Sorry but that doesn't cut the mustard, I believe in freedom of speech, even if you do not

    Actually I came looking for an answer to your heavily voiced opinion and so far we've got:

    The government did nothing, but I didn't want them to do anything anyway, but then again I wanted then to do something but I'm not telling you what I wanted them to do, but they should definitely have done x... oh they did do x... don't tell me what to say, derail thread, freedom of speech, rabble rabble, begrudgery, rabble rabble, derail a bit more.
    Muahahaha wrote: »
    You were the one who said I was using senior civil servants to refer to county council officials. It ain't my fault you confused yourself on commonly used political terms. Senior civil servants always refers to civil servants of a high rank, typically in a govt dept or quango and that is the context I used it in.
    No, you're still wrong. Read what I said again. Slower, maybe...


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  • #601
    Muahahaha
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,771 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    smash wrote: »
    Does operating within the laws of the land mean demanding that the government do your job for you? Either way, I don't care what your answer is. No doubt it will be unclear and diluted with copious amounts of bollox.

    ah here you're getting personal now, a sure sign someone is losing an argment is when you do that and start telling people what they can and cannot say.

    Can you show me the law that it is illegal for citizens to lobby their government? No you cannot because it doesn't exist, in fact lobbying public representatives is a key tenet of any properly functioning democracy. Thats all Cosgrave did, he lobbyied the Govt- we all have that right too so I don't know why you're criticising him for using the same rights that you or I have. Would you prefer we live under a dictatorship or something? Because once you remove that democratic right for citizens to make representations to their publically elected officials then thats where we'd end up.


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