Web Summit quits Dublin

Muahahaha · 22-10-2015 02:27PM

Deleted User wrote: »

No. I said that their reply wasn't sufficient but his 'asks' were outrageous and so were possibly treated as such.

So you admit the govt didn't do enough.

If I run a business that's worth €Xm to the Irish Economy over a year, and a supplier in Sligo increases their prices, should I be permitted to get the Office of the Taoiseach to put pressure on that supplier as its affecting my profit margins?

You are actually giving out about the Government not engaging in corruption. Madness!

Where did I ever say he should be granted price controls on hotels? In fact I said quite the opposite. As I said before his lists of 'asks' were just that. It was a negotiation, the buffoons in the Dept of Taoiseach didn't have to accede to them. As I said before they could have sat down and said we can give you XYZ at this cost but we can't do ABC at all. That's all they had to do but they couldn't even manage to answer an email in less than two weeks and had to be reminded on no less than three occasions. That is not good business yet Enda always tells us how Ireland is 'open for business'. Being open for business means you reply to emails that concern €108m going into the Irish economy. Only a gombeen would ignore that kind of money and thats exactly what the Dept of the Taoiseach did here.

If the Government wants to put public money on a horse at Punchestown it's not permitted to.
The Portuguese Government has done something pretty similar.

Are you saying the Portugese govt spending money to get people to come to their country is illegal state aid? Unreal Because Failte Ireland do this all the time.

Muahahaha · 22-10-2015 02:30PM

jd wrote: »

A lot more goes on there than the actual ploughing. Loads of presentations by companies etc.

The Ploughing Championships is not a conference in any way that people know conferences so its pretty disingenuous to try to dress it up as one to suit your argument in an attempt to score a few cheap points. Furthermore I doubt Anna May would be too happy with people trying to label her event as a conference, if she wanted it to be that I'm sure she would have called it the Ploughing Conference.

Muahahaha · 22-10-2015 02:34PM

smash wrote: »

It's an exhibition and trade show. The largest of it's kind in Europe. This year there were 281,000 attendees.

Which is different to a conference.

And largest of what kind? Gatherings of people in an outdoor venue?

smash · 22-10-2015 02:36PM

Muahahaha, you seem to believe that organising a conference(event) for 30,000 people is a whole lot more difficult than organising an event for 281,000 people.

Muahahaha · 22-10-2015 02:37PM

smash wrote: »

Muahahaha, you seem to believe that organising a conference(event) for 30,000 people is a whole lot more difficult than organising an event for 281,000 people.

eh no, you're trying to put words in my mouth. I never said any such thing.

smash · 22-10-2015 02:39PM

You keep referring to it as 'a conference' in order to dismiss other events of a larger scale. A conference is an event, it's all event management.

Sofiztikated · 22-10-2015 02:51PM

Muahahaha wrote: »

The Ploughing Championships is not a conference in any way that people know conferences so its pretty disingenuous to try to dress it up as one to suit your argument in an attempt to score a few cheap points. Furthermore I doubt Anna May would be too happy with people trying to label her event as a conference, if she wanted it to be that I'm sure she would have called it the Ploughing Conference.

It started as just a competition. It has evolved into THE largest trade show of it's kind. You know, similar to the Web Summit. It does the very same thing as what Paddy Cosgrove was doing, albeit in a different field (boom boom :pac: )

Delegates fly in, traffic restrictions are organised, transport is provided, hotel rooms are organised, exhibitors show off their wares, deals are made, and people have a good time as well. How is this not in any way like what the Web Summit is?

Paddy boasted about this event not being organised by an events company. There is a reason events companies are there. They could have sorted out a lot of his issues, by knowing who and where to go to get things done.

22-10-2015 03:01PM

Muahahaha wrote: »

So you admit the govt didn't do enough.

I said their reply wasn't sufficient. They should have told him that he was speaking to the wrong people and that it was his job to organise what he was asking the Government to do for him.

I imagine that this had been said before to him over the last few years of running the event though. I doubt we'll ever see that correspondence.

Muahahaha wrote: »

Where did I ever say he should be granted price controls on hotels? In fact I said quite the opposite. As I said before his lists of 'asks' were just that. It was a negotiation, the buffoons in the Dept of Taoiseach didn't have to accede to them.

What negotiation was there available to anyone on the Dept of the Taoiseach? Tell me what you'd like anyone in the Dept of the Taoiseach to have done for PC, and be aware that by default this must then be available to each and every private business owner in the country. (unless corruption)

Muahahaha wrote: »

As I said before they could have sat down and said we can give you XYZ at this cost but we can't do ABC at all.

What are XYZ and ABC? To my mind, none of what PC has asked the Government to do has anything to do with them. Nothing. There is nowhere that they can move.

Give me an example of one tangible thing that you would have been happy for them to do on Paddy's behalf - again, recall that this must then be available to all other private business owners acting in their own interests. (unless corruption)

Muahahaha wrote: »

That's all they had to do but they couldn't even manage to answer an email in less than two weeks and had to be reminded on no less than three occasions.

Yes. I agree that it was poor form not to answer (to shoo him away) more pertinently.

Muahahaha wrote: »

That is not good business yet Enda always tells us how Ireland is 'open for business'.

Ireland being 'open for business' doesn't mean that the office of the Taoiseach is 'available for hire - at 0 cost'.

Muahahaha wrote: »

Being open for business means you reply to emails that concern €108m going into the Irish economy.

That's a bizarre definition of being open for business.

Muahahaha wrote: »

Only a gombeen would ignore that kind of money and thats exactly what the Dept of the Taoiseach did here.

Can you detail what of that money would end up in the state's coffers? That number seems very big considering the numbers involved in the event.

Very. Very. Big.

Muahahaha wrote: »

Are you saying the Portugese govt spending money to get people to come to their country is illegal state aid? Unreal Because Failte Ireland do this all the time.

No. I haven't said that.

They've taken a gamble on an event though by subsidising it directly. I've asked you more than once to tell us what direct subsidies you would have been happy to have the Irish Government offer Paddy Cosgrave. You have failed to answer that question.

Muahahaha · 22-10-2015 03:07PM

smash wrote: »

You keep referring to it as 'a conference' in order to dismiss other events of a larger scale. A conference is an event, it's all event management.

Well the Web Summit IS a conference, one which consists primarily of B2B transactions. The Ploughing Championships is a competition first and foremost which exhibition space with a B2C focus.

In any case this is nothing more than whataboutery. I've never set out to compare the two- you did.

I'm simply making the point that the Irish govt did not do enough (in fact they did nothing at all) to keep this €108m (their figures, not mine) in the economy. Now if you want to defend buffons in the Dept of the Taoiseach and tell me how they did an amazing job then go right ahead.

Jimoslimos · 22-10-2015 03:10PM

Muahahaha wrote: »

Where did I ever say he should be granted price controls on hotels? In fact I said quite the opposite. As I said before his lists of 'asks' were just that. It was a negotiation, the buffoons in the Dept of Taoiseach didn't have to accede to them. As I said before they could have sat down and said we can give you XYZ at this cost but we can't do ABC at all. That's all they had to do but they couldn't even manage to answer an email in less than two weeks and had to be reminded on no less than three occasions. That is not good business yet Enda always tells us how Ireland is 'open for business'. Being open for business means you reply to emails that concern €108m going into the Irish economy. Only a gombeen would ignore that kind of money and thats exactly what the Dept of the Taoiseach did here.

We berate "gombeen" politicians for "fixing the road" and the like. Getting involved in micro-managing events like this is essentially the same thing.

smash · 22-10-2015 03:11PM

Muahahaha wrote: »

Well the Web Summit IS a conference, one which consists primarily of B2B transactions. The Ploughing Championships is a competition first and foremost.

No it's not. Foremost, it's a trade show!

Muahahaha wrote: »

In any case this is nothing more than whataboutery. I've never set out to compete the two- you did.

Not just me. Others too. Because the point is that they're both events. Same planning etc.

Muahahaha wrote: »

I'm simply making the point that the Irish govt did not do enough (in fact they did nothing at all) to keep this €108m (their figures, not mine) in the economy. Now if you want to defend buffons in the Dept of the Taoiseach and tell me how they did an amazing job then go right ahead.

Nobody's saying they did an amazing job, we're saying they couldn't have done anything. You seem to think otherwise without stating what they could have done, given that Paddy wasn't looking for a negotiation. He was looking for freebies.

smash · 22-10-2015 03:12PM

Jimoslimos wrote: »

We berate "gombeen" politicians for "fixing the road" and the like. Getting involved in micro-managing events like this is essentially the same thing.

It's worse. A road benefits a community. This event primarily benefits a private company.

Muahahaha · 22-10-2015 03:28PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I said their reply wasn't sufficient. They should have told him that he was speaking to the wrong people and that it was his job to organise what he was asking the Government to do for him.

So we can both agree the govt didn't do enough.

What negotiation was there available to anyone on the Dept of the Taoiseach? Tell me what you'd like anyone in the Dept of the Taoiseach to have done for PC, and be aware that by default this must then be available to each and every private business owner in the country. (unless corruption)

What are XYZ and ABC? To my mind, none of what PC has asked the Government to do has anything to do with them. Nothing. There is nowhere that they can move.

Give me an example of one tangible thing that you would have been happy for them to do on Paddy's behalf - again, recall that this must then be available to all other private business owners acting in their own interests. (unless corruption)

I've already dealt with this further back the thread. To summarise- extra Gardai and limited road closures, extra Dublin Buses and a traffic plan. All at the expense of Cosgrave or attendees. No subsidies, just help in ensuring the thousands of participants can get home without having to walk like they did last year, it was chaos that you'd expect to see in India. No buses, the few that did show up were full and kept going. These are simple things that any city has to get right if they want to attract large scale events. Apparently were bidding for the 2023 Rugby WC, the chaos following the Web Summit last year does not bode well for us hosting 48 games with much bigger crowds.

Yes. I agree that it was poor form not to answer (to shoo him away) more pertinently.

Ireland being 'open for business' doesn't mean that the office of the Taoiseach is 'available for hire - at 0 cost'.

That's a bizarre definition of being open for business.

Can you detail what of that money would end up in the state's coffers? That number seems very big considering the numbers involved in the event.

Very. Very. Big.

The €108m is Enda Kennys figure so dispute it with him, it came out of his mouth.

As regards how much the State gets, again I dealt with this in detail yesterday so am not repeating myself. Read back a couple of pages. Needless to say quite a chunk. Our VAT rate is the highest in the EU just for starters.

And its Enda himself who encouraged entreprenuers to contact him if they want to do business in Ireland. Its his mantra, not mine. He even gave out his mobile phone number and told entreprenuers to ring him and he would help with their problems. Cosgrave did just that and look where it got him. Unanswered emails is about the height of Enda's 'Open for Business' spin.

They've taken a gamble on an event though by subsidising it directly. I've asked you more than once to tell us what direct subsidies you would have been happy to have the Irish Government offer Paddy Cosgrave. You have failed to answer that question.

Again I've dealt with all this on the thread

22-10-2015 03:41PM

Muahahaha wrote: »

I've already dealt with this further back the thread. To summarise- extra Gardai and limited road closures, extra Dublin Buses and a traffic plan.

None of these have anything to do with the Government!

If Gardaí are needed, speak to the Gardaí (note - not the Government)
If Buses are needed, speak to Dublin Bus or another private company (note - not the Government)
If a Traffic plan is needed, speak to DCC (note - not the Government)
If WiFi infrastructure upgrades are needed, speak to the venue. (note - not the Government)

Why should the department of the Taoiseach co-ordinate any of this for a private business?

Just pick a single item and tell me what anyone in the Department of the Taoiseach should/could do to help?

If it is "ring someone and organise something for Paddy Cosgrave's private company" then be aware that you are asking that the Department of the Taoiseach offer Web Summit event management services pro-bono. A direct subsidy.

Muahahaha wrote: »

All at the expense of Cosgrave or attendees.

What rate do you think Cosgrave would accept as a per-hour billable for the event management services that he is requesting from the Department of the Taoiseach?

€100 p/h? €200 p/h?

Muahahaha wrote: »

No subsidies, just help in ensuring the thousands of participants can get home without having to walk like they did last year, it was chaos that you'd expect to see in India. No buses, the few that did show up were full and kept going. These are simple things that any city has to get right if they want to attract large scale events.

1 - Time is money
2 - Perhaps he should have organised the event better?

Muahahaha wrote: »

Apparently were bidding for the 2023 Rugby WC, the chaos following the Web Summit last year does not bode well for us hosting 48 games with much bigger crowds.

The company that will be organising that bid, and the event management for all the events (if it is a successful bid) will no doubt co-operate with Dublin Bus and the Gardaí and DCC in order to ensure that their events go off without a hitch.

This avenue was of course open to Paddy Cosgrave's private company aiming to run an event.

Muahahaha wrote: »

The €108m is Enda Kennys figure so dispute it with him, it came out of his mouth.
As regards how much the State gets, again I dealt with this in detail yesterday so am not repeating myself. Read back a couple of pages. Needless to say quite a chunk. Our VAT rate is the highest in the EU just for starters.

It's just a number though. I asked specifically how much of that would ever cross the State's coffers.

Considering the revenues of Web Summit are buried in that number, there's quite a large difference between that headline number (that Enda would obviously embrace) and the bottom line of what it adds to the State's coffers.

Muahahaha wrote: »

And its Enda himself who encouraged entreprenuers to contact him if they want to do business in Ireland. Its his mantra, not mine. He even gave out his mobile phone number and told entreprenuers to ring him and he would help with their problems. Cosgrave did just that and look where it got him. Unanswered emails is about the height of Enda's 'Open for Business' spin.

Link?
Nothing in any of these
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/enda-kenny-door-open-to-us-business-leaders-262015.html
http://www.independent.ie/business/media/taoiseach-enda-kenny-opens-new-digitalled-news-hub-at-inm-31549587.html
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/enda-kenny-promotes-irish-business-in-lyons-1.2340653

Muahahaha wrote: »

Again I've dealt with all this on the thread

Please link. The search facility will assist.

I'd like a single example of a single thing that you think that the department of the Taoiseach could have done for Paddy Cosgrave.

One tangible example.

smash · 22-10-2015 03:52PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I'd like a single example of a single thing that you think that the department of the Taoiseach could have done for Paddy Cosgrave.

One tangible example.

He seems to be fully convinced that the majority of the asks could have been done and negotiated from "free" to "a small fee" even though it's not in the government's remit to do so.

Muahahaha · 22-10-2015 04:12PM

Deleted User wrote: »

None of these have anything to do with the Government!

If Gardaí are needed, speak to the Gardaí (note - not the Government)
If Buses are needed, speak to Dublin Bus or another private company (note - not the Government)
If a Traffic plan is needed, speak to DCC (note - not the Government)
If WiFi infrastructure upgrades are needed, speak to the venue. (note - not the Government)

Why should the department of the Taoiseach co-ordinate any of this for a private business?

For the third time on this thread- I never said they should. If they weren't willing to get involved then they should not have engaged him. They should have said 'go talk to XYZ, here's their numbers'. They did not do this, instead the senior civil servants chose to engage him and then ignore him. What part of that do you not get?

Just pick a single item and tell me what anyone in the Department of the Taoiseach should/could do to help?

If it is "ring someone and organise something for Paddy Cosgrave's private company" then be aware that you are asking that the Department of the Taoiseach offer Web Summit event management services pro-bono. A direct subsidy.

What rate do you think Cosgrave would accept as a per-hour billable for the event management services that he is requesting from the Department of the Taoiseach?

€100 p/h? €200 p/h?

1 - Time is money
2 - Perhaps he should have organised the event better?

All as above, if the DotT wasn't/isn't the correct dept why in gods name did they not send him to the correct one? Thats what anyone with half a brain would do but these senior civil servants instead chose to engage him.

It's just a number though. I asked specifically how much of that would ever cross the State's coffers.

How should I know, I don't work for the Dept of Finance. But like I said a sizeable chunk VAT-Income tax-USC-Employees PRSI-Employers PRSI-Corporation Tax. With €108m filtering through the economy it all gets chucnks taken out of it at various stages. Maybe you would prefer we didn't get this money at all and we'd have less money to spend on public services? Because the way you're going on here it sure sounds like it. Personally I'd prefer that the economy is €108m better off, would you not? And why?

Nothing in any of these
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/enda-kenny-door-open-to-us-business-leaders-262015.html
http://www.independent.ie/business/media/taoiseach-enda-kenny-opens-new-digitalled-news-hub-at-inm-31549587.html
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/enda-kenny-promotes-irish-business-in-lyons-1.2340653

You didn't look hard enough. Here you go
http://www.thejournal.ie/enda-kenny-call-me-1396097-Apr2014/

ENDA KENNY SAYS his open invitation to global businesses to call him anytime has had some unexpected consequences.
While in the US for St Patrick’s Day festivities, the Taoiseach told company executives to “call me anytime”.
Speaking at a US Embassy event in Dublin’s Marker Hotel today though, he rolled back on his promise.
“I said to people, look, you’re all involved in the business, here’s my phone number if you want to call me.
“Christ, I’m getting phone calls from Adelaide and New Zealand and everywhere,” he said to much laughter.
“Some of them are not what you might expect. They are not all about industry.”

And from Newstalk
https://www.newstalk.com/Call-me-anytime--Taoiseach-promises-hell-try-and-answer-the-phone

The Taoiseach is making his annual St. Patrick's Day pilgrimage to the US.

Last night he met with business leaders, in a bid to strengthen trade ties between the two countries.

During a speech to the US Chamber of Commerce in Wasington D.C., Enda Kenny explained his unique response to communicating with Ireland's citizens, and encouraged those interested in our country to pick up the phone and call him:

Web Summit is a global business is it not? Enda told executives to "call him" if they wanted to do business in Ireland and he would try to help them out. Cosgrave did just what Enda himself had suggested and you're now rubbishing him on here for doing so?

I'd like a single example of a single thing that you think that the department of the Taoiseach could have done for Paddy Cosgrave.

One tangible example.

For the last time I've dealt with this further up the thread. I've outlined my responses to this several times. If you don't know how to use the search function on Boards to read them then I can't help you.

22-10-2015 04:22PM

Muahahaha wrote: »

For the third time on this thread- I never said they should. If they weren't willing to get involved then they should not have engaged him. They should have said 'go talk to XYZ, here's their numbers'. They did not do this, instead the senior civil servants chose to engage him and then ignore him. What part of that do you not get?

All as above, if the DotT wasn't/isn't the correct dept why in gods name did they not send him to the correct one? Thats what anyone with half a brain would do but these senior civil servants instead chose to engage him.

Paddy Cosgrave knows all of this.
He's not a new fish. You should probably think a bit more highly of him. He can't have been running his company in Dublin for the last X years without being very aware of the avenues that he was supposed to be dealing with.

The department did not engage him. They put him on the long finger. That's the thing we've agreed that neither of us think they've done well ! How can you change your mind on this in the space of 5 posts?

Muahahaha wrote: »

How should I know, I don't work for the Dept of Finance. But like I said a sizeable chunk VAT-Income tax-USC-Employees PRSI-Employers PRSI-Corporation Tax. With €108m filtering through the economy it all gets chucnks taken out of it at various stages. Maybe you would prefer we didn't get this money at all and we'd have less money to spend on public services? Because the way you're going on here it sure sounds like it. Personally I'd prefer that the economy is €108m better off, would you not? And why?

The economy would not be €108m better off. It won't be €108m worse off next year without it. The headline number is almost meaningless. It's for headlines. Perhaps its best not to try to use it when you don't understand it.

Muahahaha wrote: »

You didn't look hard enough. Here you go
http://www.thejournal.ie/enda-kenny-call-me-1396097-Apr2014/
And from Newstalk
https://www.newstalk.com/Call-me-anytime--Taoiseach-promises-hell-try-and-answer-the-phone
Web Summit is a global business is it not? Enda told executives to "call him" if they wanted to do business in Ireland and he would try to help them out. Cosgrave did just what Enda himself had suggested and you're now rubbishing him on here for doing so?

Fair enough. Some of the usual rhetoric and soundbites from a politician being a politician.

Perhaps fool Paddy for thinking that that the empty rhetoric is some form of contract that he can use to get pro-bono event management done by the Department of the Taoiseach.

Muahahaha wrote: »

For the last time I've dealt with this further up the thread. I've outlined my responses to this several times. If you don't know how to use the search function on Boards to read them then I can't help you.

And I've asked you politely to assist me, given that I am totally unable to find a single tangible example that you have given. http://www.boards.ie/search/submit/?user=655057&forum=7&sort=newest&date_to=&date_from=&query=%2A%3A%2A

Not one.

Dyr · 22-10-2015 04:26PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Paddy Cosgrave knows all of this.
He's not a new fish. You should probably think a bit more highly of him. He can't have been running his company in Dublin for the last X years without being very aware of the avenues that he was supposed to be dealing with.

If there's one characteristic of the web summit that's stronger than its aversion to paying for stuff it's amateurish organization.

They probably should'nt of boasted about not hiring event managers because it was obvious that they desperately needed some

smash · 22-10-2015 04:37PM

Bambi wrote: »

If there's one characteristic of the web summit that's stronger than its aversion to paying for stuff it's amateurish organization.

They probably should'nt of boasted about not hiring event managers because it was obvious that they desperately needed some

Shhh, you can't criticise them or you'll be accused of defaming them and having a personal vendetta against them. :rolleyes:

flouncer · 22-10-2015 09:24PM

Muahahaha wrote: »

For the third time on this thread- I never said they should. If they weren't willing to get involved then they should not have engaged him. They should have said 'go talk to XYZ, here's their numbers'. They did not do this, instead the senior civil servants chose to engage him and then ignore him. What part of that do you not get?

All as above, if the DotT wasn't/isn't the correct dept why in gods name did they not send him to the correct one? Thats what anyone with half a brain would do but these senior civil servants instead chose to engage him.

How should I know, I don't work for the Dept of Finance. But like I said a sizeable chunk VAT-Income tax-USC-Employees PRSI-Employers PRSI-Corporation Tax. With €108m filtering through the economy it all gets chucnks taken out of it at various stages. Maybe you would prefer we didn't get this money at all and we'd have less money to spend on public services? Because the way you're going on here it sure sounds like it. Personally I'd prefer that the economy is €108m better off, would you not? And why?

You didn't look hard enough. Here you go
http://www.thejournal.ie/enda-kenny-call-me-1396097-Apr2014/

And from Newstalk
https://www.newstalk.com/Call-me-anytime--Taoiseach-promises-hell-try-and-answer-the-phone

Web Summit is a global business is it not? Enda told executives to "call him" if they wanted to do business in Ireland and he would try to help them out. Cosgrave did just what Enda himself had suggested and you're now rubbishing him on here for doing so?

For the last time I've dealt with this further up the thread. I've outlined my responses to this several times. If you don't know how to use the search function on Boards to read them then I can't help you.

Paddy, good to have you involved in our banter :-)

Annasopra · 22-10-2015 10:10PM

Muahahaha wrote: »

How come no one ever seems to mention that Dublin, like Lisbon, is a small capital city and that we need to compete for events like these?

Like Lisbon is throwing up e100 per conference attendee because the Mayor knows the lowest spend per attendee is approx e1,500 and a lot more for other attendees taking exhibition space at the event, the taxes from which more than cover the initial 100 euro subsidy.

Is this not business sense to pay the 100e subsidy to get lots more in tax? Would people posting here prefer that tax goes to the Portugese govt rather than our own? Lisbons gain is very much our loss on this debacle. Our Govt tells us that they're pro-business but the Portugese Govt backs it up with actions.

Look Paddy wanted to fleece his customers and wanted the Irish taxpayer to pay for everything so he could fleece them more. I think Enda finally copped that Paddy is a spoofer, has always been a spoofer and we're better off here in Ireland without his unprofessional spoofery.

Muahahaha · 22-10-2015 10:16PM

Deleted User wrote: »

The department did not engage him. They put him on the long finger. That's the thing we've agreed that neither of us think they've done well ! How can you change your mind on this in the space of 5 posts?

Oh yes they did engage him, if you think they didn't they why did they produce a draft plan for him? How is that not engaging him? You're trying to shift the goalposts now that you've lost this part of the argument. It simply cannot be said that they did not engage him when they were spending time and man hours producing draft frameworks for him. Not engaging him would have meant they said 'go talk to XYZ', they never did that because they engaged him

The economy would not be €108m better off. It won't be €108m worse off next year without it. The headline number is almost meaningless. It's for headlines. Perhaps its best not to try to use it when you don't understand it.

Its Endas words not mine. But becasue it doesn't suit your argument you're now saying it is irrelevant. More goalpost shifting from you. By your logic the economy will be better off without the €108m, you seem like you would prefer we not have it the way you're posting on here

Fair enough. Some of the usual rhetoric and soundbites from a politician being a politician.

So first you didn't believe me and went searching, you couldn't find out anything about it and then came back here boasting about it. When I show you the evidence its 'fair enough', lol! The fact Enda Kenny gave out his phone number and told executives to ring him if they needed their business problems solved shows that Paddy Cosgrave did what Kenny said executives of a global company should do. Your argument was that the Dept of the Taoiseach has nothing to do with helping businesses, that argument is now torn to shreds by the evidence of Enda himself 'Irelands Open for Business' he claims, ring me! Yet when entrepruneurs like Cosgrave do just that they get short shrift from an unprofessional bunch of senior civil servants.

And I've asked you politely to assist me, given that I am totally unable to find a single tangible example that you have given. http://www.boards.ie/search/submit/?user=655057&forum=7&sort=newest&date_to=&date_from=&query=%2A%3A%2A

Not one.

Look you've already proved that you're not very good at searching. But heres a tip- I posted 3 clear things from his list of asks that they could have done and they are all there for everyone to see. If you aren't smart enough to find them then it ain't my job to show you.

Annasopra · 22-10-2015 10:18PM

Muahahaha wrote: »

Lie is a very strong word and it isn't one I'd use lightly. People can be misinformed and then give our the wrong information without meaning to. Thats a whole different matter to outright lying. It is almost impossible to prove is someone sets out to delibritely lie and mislead people which is why I don't think its a good idea to ever call anyone a liar in public like Smash just did.

Maybe he doesnt lie but misleads people. He certainly mislead a large number in 2009

http://www.irishelection.com/2009/04/micandidateeu-the-full-analysis/

Muahahaha · 22-10-2015 10:30PM

smash wrote: »

Shhh, you can't criticise them or you'll be accused of defaming them and having a personal vendetta against them. :rolleyes:

Its pretty obvious from your posts and attacks on him that you do have some sort fo vendetta against him. They are nothing more that irrational and vitriolic. It sounds to me like you just begrudge him his success, it is not unusual in Ireland, this country is full of begrudgers

PhoenixParker · 22-10-2015 10:50PM

The idea that the web summit is some sort of huge international conference with massive logistical issues that require the Taoiseach's attention puzzles me.

It was 22,119 attendees last year and apparently 30,000 this year.
The capacity of the RDS arena for a concert is 38,000 people, for a rugby match is 18,500.
The young scientists exhibition had an attendance of 59,000 over four days this year.

The number of attendees at the web summit is in line with the number of attendees at many other events held in the RDS.
It really shouldn't pose a problem to the venue or to those organising logistics for it.

A big international rugby match would have a similar hotel demand impact to the web summit.
For instance "An estimated 15,000 out-of-state visitors attended the Ireland versus England rugby game in the Aviva Stadium on 1st March 2015 . . . The average stay of attendees in Dublin was 2.6 nights"
http://irishsport.ie/wpress/index.php/2015/07/new-report-shows-value-of-big-events-to-irish-economy-ireland-v-england-rugby-worth-e21-3m/

There are multiple concerts, sporting events and indeed exhibitions and conferences in Dublin every year that are a similar scale or bigger. They generally manage to liaise with the relevant authorities, sort their logistical issues and get on with the job without the personal attention of An Taoiseach or leaving in a huff for Lisbon.

I've always felt that part of the reason web summit did well was because it was in Dublin which has become the american multi-national capital of Europe and thus was well placed to attract visitors to a web summit type event. It'll be interesting to see how it does in Lisbon.

Tarzana2 · 22-10-2015 11:01PM

Give it up, Muahahaha. Cosgrave tried to use high pressures sales tactics on the government and it responded in the best possible way - with unconcealed indifference. You can almost hear the Gallic shrug.

Your posts come off like you are either involved in the event, or are simply a dog with a bone with no particular interest other than to prove yourself right. Or have a big grudge against the civil service.

And you've now trotted out "begrudgery". Goodnight and good luck.

smash · 22-10-2015 11:04PM

Muahahaha wrote: »

Oh yes they did engage him, if you think they didn't they why did they produce a draft plan for him? How is that not engaging him?

But sure you keep saying that they did nothing...

smash · 22-10-2015 11:09PM

Muahahaha wrote: »

Its pretty obvious from your posts and attacks on him that you do have some sort fo vendetta against him. They are nothing more that irrational and vitriolic. It sounds to me like you just begrudge him his success, it is not unusual in Ireland, this country is full of begrudgers

I've stated on numerous occasions that this isn't true. I just don't like how the guy operates. But keep on defending him. With every post you make, it sounds more and more like you're actually him.

brooke 2 · 22-10-2015 11:10PM

Muahahaha wrote: »

So on one hand you're saying State involvement for US IT companies is good but on the other we shouldn't have state involvement when an Irish company comes asking?

eh since when is the Ploughing Championships a conference? It's a competition, sure its even there in the name

The point is that a huge undertaking like it can be organised without all the histrionics which we have witnessed from Paddy Cosgrave.

flouncer · 22-10-2015 11:38PM

brooke 2 wrote: »

The point is that a huge undertaking like it can be organised without all the histrionics which we have witnessed from Paddy Cosgrave.

From time to time I like to get my dig in at people (particularly Paddy supporters). But I will say that this country is built on entrepreneurs like paddy and the likes of denis o'brien. I have no appreciation for either of these individuals but they did get up off their arse and do something while paying minimum rates to employees.

What bothers me about said folks is their disrespect to the overall community. they have no care for this country. Denis does his taxes elsewhere and god knows where paddy does his tax affairs. and maybe a reason to move to lisbon?

Web Summit quits Dublin

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