Web Summit quits Dublin

Muahahaha

seamus wrote: »

I'm not sure if you've been to Vegas, but the entire thing is structured as one big hotel. The entire town is designed as a destination. Without tourism, it has nothing. And conferences are a huge part of tourism because they bring in people charging everything to company expense accounts.

I see your sentiment, but to claim that "Vegas can do it, why can't Dublin" is like someone in Luxembourg asking why they can't be more of sailing destination. "Ireland can do it, why can't we".

I still think the point here is being missed. Dublin WAS doing it, we had the WS with 30,000 attendees. So why not kick on and send out Failte Ireland to see if they could snag another 7 or 8 annual conferences of this size? All the while pointing to the success of the WS in Dublin as a blueprint to other conference organisers, using it as a selling point to prove that we can host conferences of this size? What would have been so wrong with that?

smash wrote: »

And this was going to happen. But WS requested that any associated fees be waived.

We're not talking about diplomats though, we're talking about tech millionaires. It's a waste of resources.

He asked for free Dublin Busses to carry out specific routes to bring delegates to and from hotels. And he wanted the DOP to work out the logistics too.


No, they're really not.

It was a negotiation. He had the right to ask, they had the right to refuse. What they didn't have was the cop on to sit down with him and say 'right we can do XYZ at this cost, but there's no way we can do ABC'. Would that have been too difficult for our senior civil servants?

Deleted User wrote: »

There's absolutely no way that in the years that Paddy's organised the Web Summit in Ireland, that he wasn't totally and utterly aware of who he was supposed to be talking to. No way.

All we know is he was dealing with the people right at the very top of government. They were the same people who rang the NASDAQ bell with him so I presume he was talking to the right people. If he wasn't those people never said, instead they engaged him and strung him along. All the while the Portuguese Deputy Prime Minister was usurping the fools in the Taoiseachs Department.

Muahahaha

Muahahaha wrote: »

All we know is he was dealing with the people right at the very top of government. They were the same people who rang the NASDAQ bell with him so I presume he was talking to the right people. If he wasn't those people never said, instead they engaged him and strung him along. All the while the Portuguese Deputy Prime Minister was usurping the fools in the Taoiseachs Department.

You didn't answer the important question about what sort of engagement you feel that the Government should have offered.

Deleted User wrote: »

What do you think should have been an acceptable level of Government subsidy to Paddy Cosgrave's private company?

What level of engagement would you hope that the Government would have?

Recall the requests ('Asks' [sic])

1 - Paddy had issues with the WiFi at a privately owned venue, and was hoping that the Government would assist. (How?)
2 - Paddy wanted roads closed, and traffic calming measures organised by the office of the Taoiseach
3 - Paddy wanted Dublin Bus to provide more public transport, and pressure from the office of the Taoiseach to handle this happening
4 - Paddy wanted Garda Escorts for his VIPs organised by the office of the Taoiseach
5 - Paddy wanted someone from Government to sit down with all of the hotels (private businesses) in Dublin and explain to them the benefits of charging less than they can charge on the week that Web Summit takes place.

Just pick one of these requests and consider what level of Government engagement/interference you would tolerate if it was a Dennis O'Brien company.

No requests for cash obviously, but that's not to say they're not looking for subsidies by making those requests.

Instead of slating them for doing nothing, suggest what they might have done.

ThisRegard

Muahahaha wrote: »

Well you're calling him a liar on a public internet board, which is defamation. So sorry but you do have a vendetta against him, otherwise your anger wouldn't be letting you say things that could get you sued for defaming him by saying he is a liar.

If you think he's been defamed, you're the only one. Not even the Websummit or Cosgrave himself has come out to deny any of this.

Muahahaha

Deleted User wrote: »

You should probably call ExpressBus (previously AMC) Dublin and tell them that they're operating illegally so.

Given that they are a private bus company that offer shuttle bus services to many private companies without any of the above. I've used them a few times, they're a great company actually.

Here's their Johnnie Foxs Pub shuttle info, their ITB Shuttle and their Wright Venue Shuttle.

You're telling me that they couldn't have run shuttle buses from hotels to the RDS without bus stops and route licences? Come off it.

eh sorry you need a route license to operate any specific bus route in Ireland. The DoT decide on the requirements of the licence, where you can pick up/drop off, bus stop signage, etc. They are the conditions of the licence. That's the law as it stands and I've no doubt in my mind that the company you linked above has a route licence, despite you thinking they don't. Prove me wrong though and go look them up, all route licenses are publically available on the Transport for Ireland website.

ThisRegard

Muahahaha wrote: »

Yes really. Both DB and private operators pay big money to the DoT for their route licences. The DoT can't just usurp them by offering route licences to anyone who wants them. As it stands to get a route licence the process with the DoT takes 18 months, you have to provide your own bus stops, heighten the pavements at the stops, all these things to keep the transport bureaucrats in the DoT happy. Any major events company knows this, so I'm sure Cosgrave knew the best way to solve the transport problem was more buses because laying on his own just wasn't feasible given the red tape.

Jesus, it's not a new public service route, it's feckin private transport for delegates. What are you talking about ?!

Are the various 3rd level colleges around the country who lay on private transport to and from exam halls for their students operating with route licences from the DoT?

Muahahaha

Muahahaha wrote: »

eh sorry you need a route license to operate any specific bus route in Ireland. The DoT decide on the requirements of the licence, where you can pick up/drop off, bus stop signage, etc. They are the conditions of the licence. That's the law as it stands and I've no doubt in my mind that the company you linked above has a route licence, despite you thinking they don't. Prove me wrong though and go look them up, all route licenses are publically available on the Transport for Ireland website.

Call them and ask them to transport A people from X to Y.

They will quote you. They will not have a route licence unless they've applied for these licences from every single point in Dublin to every other point in Dublin (many millions of licences - just in case)

They will not get a route licence.

They won't even discuss a licence.

A licence will not be imagined.

Just consider what you're saying. Imagine if a Taxi could only take a pre-described route, requiring 18 months of clearance. Now just change that Taxi to be a bigger taxi, capable of carrying more people...

Muahahaha

Deleted User wrote: »

You didn't answer the important question about what sort of engagement you feel that the Government should have offered.

As I highlighted above I think 3 of the requests should have been facilitated- but not for free. The Gardai/road closures should have been paid for. The VIP thing was only 10 people so I'd have no problems giving that for free as the quid pro quo was some 10,000 free tickets for schoolchildren. And the buses, laying on more buses, no problems, but the passenger pays.

As I said everything was a negotiation.

As far as Govt level engagement I would have expected the same or only slightly less than what the Lisbon govt were offering. We are competing against them as a city to attract large conferences of this scale, are we not?

smash

Muahahaha wrote: »

I still think the point here is being missed. Dublin WAS doing it, we had the WS with 30,000 attendees.

No we didn't. We do this year though if the projected attendance figures are correct.

Muahahaha wrote: »

So why not kick on and send out Failte Ireland to see if they could snag another 7 or 8 annual conferences of this size? All the while pointing to the success of the WS in Dublin as a blueprint to other conference organisers, using it as a selling point to prove that we can host conferences of this size? What would have been so wrong with that?

That can still be done. We haven't had a 30,000 conference just yet.

Muahahaha wrote: »

It was a negotiation. He had the right to ask, they had the right to refuse. What they didn't have was the cop on to sit down with him and say 'right we can do XYZ at this cost, but there's no way we can do ABC'. Would that have been too difficult for our senior civil servants?

WS pulled the plug before even meeting them. They gave him a plan which suggested meeting up to do a solid plan for 2016, based on the outcome of 2015 and he said no.

Muahahaha

Muahahaha wrote: »

As I highlighted above I think 3 of the requests should have been facilitated- but not for free.

Facilitated by whom? The Government is it?

Muahahaha wrote: »

The Gardai/road closures should have been paid for.

Firstly, is this a Government Issue? Or are the Gardaí independent?

Secondly, this is a quantifiable subsidy. I assume you'd have no issue offering that to anyone else who asked for it?

Muahahaha wrote: »

The VIP thing was only 10 people so I'd have no problems giving that for free as the quid pro quo was some 10,000 free tickets for schoolchildren.
.

Ah, so now the 'free' tickets aren't free, but are delivered at a cost of Gardaí overtime etc...

Again, what bit of this has the Government to engage in? And as before, this subsidy is now available to any / all?

Muahahaha wrote: »

And the buses, laying on more buses, no problems, but the passenger pays.

As far as I know, Enda Kenny doesn't run a bus service...
Perhaps PC would have had better luck asking a company that does run buses. ExpressBus could have helped. Dublin Bus might have helped too. But Enda Kenny's office probably doesn't have enough capacity to drive all those extra people around the city.

Muahahaha wrote: »

As I said everything was a negotiation.

And as I said, none of it has anything to do with the Government.

Muahahaha wrote: »

As far as Govt level engagement I would have expected the same or only slightly less than what the Lisbon govt were offering.

Why? If the Portugeuse Government overstep their remit as a Government and gamble public funds on an event, that's not a good enough reason for us to do the same.

Muahahaha wrote: »

We are competing against them as a city to attract large conferences of this scale, are we not?

Correct. But the Office of the Taoiseach is not the avenue for this. That Paddy considers his private business issues as Government issues does not make it so.

machiavellianme

Deleted User wrote: »

What do you think should have been an acceptable level of Government subsidy to Paddy Cosgrave's private company?

What level of engagement would you hope that the Government would have?

Recall the requests ('Asks' [sic])

1 - Paddy had issues with the WiFi at a privately owned venue, and was hoping that the Government would assist. (How?)
2 - Paddy wanted roads closed, and traffic calming measures organised by the office of the Taoiseach
3 - Paddy wanted Dublin Bus to provide more public transport, and pressure from the office of the Taoiseach to handle this happening
4 - Paddy wanted Garda Escorts for his VIPs organised by the office of the Taoiseach
5 - Paddy wanted someone from Government to sit down with all of the hotels (private businesses) in Dublin and explain to them the benefits of charging less than they can charge on the week that Web Summit takes place.

Just pick one of these requests and consider what level of Government engagement/interference you would tolerate if it was a Dennis O'Brien company.

No requests for cash obviously, but that's not to say they're not looking for subsidies by making those requests.

Is Paddy lobbying?

smash

Muahahaha wrote: »

As far as Govt level engagement I would have expected the same or only slightly less than what the Lisbon govt were offering. We are competing against them as a city to attract large conferences of this scale, are we not?

Lisbon are giving him a million Euro to move there.

Muahahaha

Deleted User wrote: »

Facilitated by whom? The Government is it?


Firstly, is this a Government Issue? Or are the Gardaí independent?

Secondly, this is a quantifiable subsidy. I assume you'd have no issue offering that to anyone else who asked for it?

Ah, so now the 'free' tickets aren't free, but are delivered at a cost of Gardaí overtime etc...

Again, what bit of this has the Government to engage in? And as before, this subsidy is now available to any / all?

As far as I know, Enda Kenny doesn't run a bus service...
Perhaps PC would have had better luck asking a company that does run buses. ExpressBus could have helped. Dublin Bus might have helped too. But Enda Kenny's office probably doesn't have enough capacity to drive all those extra people around the city.

And as I said, none of it has anything to do with the Government.

Why? If the Portugeuse Government overstep their remit as a Government and gamble public funds on an event, that's not a good enough reason for us to do the same.

Correct. But the Office of the Taoiseach is not the avenue for this. That Paddy considers his private business issues as Government issues does not make it so.

If it was not then fair enough. But if it was not then why didn't they send him to the correct people? It was their mistake in not doing this, they chose to engage him. Then they took 2 weeks to send a one line reply to an email, are you going to defend that too?

The extra buses, road closures around the venue, Gardai outside the venue directing the heavy traffic it suffers from, the VIP runs- these could all have been achieved at a cost to the organisers. Not for free like Cosgrave wanted but at a cost. Like I said its a negotiation and its what people in business do every day. Unfortunately the eejits in the Taoiseachs dept don't have a clue about business so never got this key concept.

btw the Portuguese govt saw it as their responsibility at a high level. Seems like they took the influx of cash and visitors seriously whereas our own govt just paid it lip service.

ThisRegard

Muahahaha wrote: »

Unfortunately the eejits in the Taoiseachs dept don't have a clue about business so never got this key concept.

What's it got to do with the department of an Taoiseach?

As for your misguided assertions, why do you think so many IT companies have pretty good setups here (I'm not talking about the boiler plates), do you think they all decided to locate here for the craic with no state involvement?

Muahahaha

Muahahaha wrote: »

If it was not then fair enough. But if it was not then why didn't they send him to the correct people? It was their mistake in not doing this, they chose to engage him. Then they took 2 weeks to send a one line reply to an email, are you going to defend that too?

No. I said that their reply wasn't sufficient but his 'asks' were outrageous and so were possibly treated as such.

Muahahaha wrote: »

The extra buses, road closures around the venue, Gardai outside the venue directing the heavy traffic it suffers from, the VIP runs- these could all have been achieved at a cost to the organisers. Not for free like Cosgrave wanted but at a cost. Like I said its a negotiation and its what people in business do every day. Unfortunately the eejits in the Taoiseachs dept don't have a clue about business so never got this key concept.

You've not once suggested what those 'eejits in the Taoiseachs dept' should have done differently. You've been told that it's not their remit to subsidise and assist private businesses in increasing their profit margins.

If I run a business that's worth €Xm to the Irish Economy over a year, and a supplier in Sligo increases their prices, should I be permitted to get the Office of the Taoiseach to put pressure on that supplier as its affecting my profit margins?

You are actually giving out about the Government not engaging in corruption. Madness!

Muahahaha wrote: »

btw the Portuguese govt saw it as their responsibility at a high level. Seems like they took the influx of cash and visitors seriously whereas our own govt just paid it lip service.

If the Government wants to put public money on a horse at Punchestown it's not permitted to.
The Portuguese Government has done something pretty similar.

HamsterFace

I wonder does Paddy read this thread?

heebusjeebus

HamsterFace wrote: »

I wonder does Paddy read this thread?

Maybe he's angry and causing all the site instability :eek:

smash

HamsterFace wrote: »

I wonder does Paddy read this thread?

I don't think he's bothered. There's never replies to comment sin the blog, like in this post: http://blog.websummit.net/web-summit-scam-setting-record-straight/

I think it's sad that he took the route he did when moving the conference abroad and especially the way he passed blame to everyone else. I lost a lot of respect for the event over it, and it really brought the bad stories from previous exhibitors to light.

I know people who are attending this year as speakers and exhibitors and those who just got tickets from work, and I was planning on going along for a day or two and to get out on a pub crawl with them but I really don't want to line Paddy's pockets now.

CatFromHue

I've no problem with him moving the conference, I do have a problem with all the bitching and moaning he's done and then there's the leaking of private emails too. He's just given out email addresses and a phone number to the public.

Then you add in the fact that emails actually make him and his Summit look bad.

Tarzana2

How was the email correspondence he released received outside of boards.ie?

ThisRegard

Pretty much the same, one or two trying to lay the blame at the government but go quiet when asked to defend him.

BoardsMember

As with most things, there are two sides to the story. Ask some of the hoteliers what they think of all this. For example, if the organisers were to block book rooms at a negotiated preferential rate, and then contributed hiked prices by selling the same rooms at a premium. If that were the case, how could the organsisers give out about price gouging.

kidneyfan

smash wrote: »

I think it's sad that he took the route he did when moving the conference abroad ...

Dublin can't host this summit if it continues at the current rate of growth. We simply don't have the facilities and it wouldn't make sense to build them for this one conference.

smash

kidneyfan wrote: »

Dublin can't host this summit if it continues at the current rate of growth. We simply don't have the facilities and it wouldn't make sense to build them for this one conference.

I agree. However Paddy was told that a plan would be put in place for 2016 based on the performance of 2015 but he said no.

He wanted a lot of planning done within 2 months and he didn't want to do it himself. It begs the questions about this year's conference... Will the WIFI work? Do all delegates have hotel rooms? Will traffic cause chaos? Because if these issues come to surface it's not the government's fault, it's entirely Paddy's fault for over selling a conference knowing the restrictions. He had a year to plan and it appears he didn't do it properly. Maybe the engineers who are organising it forgot to carry the 1...

Calina

Muahahaha wrote: »

eh sorry you need a route license to operate any specific bus route in Ireland. The DoT decide on the requirements of the licence, where you can pick up/drop off, bus stop signage, etc. They are the conditions of the licence. That's the law as it stands and I've no doubt in my mind that the company you linked above has a route licence, despite you thinking they don't. Prove me wrong though and go look them up, all route licenses are publically available on the Transport for Ireland website.

I think you are mixing up private hire and public transport requirements. Certainly public transport routes need to be licensed. Private hire on the other hand has different regulations.

I don't think Dublin is a good target for lots of huge conferences. It is, on the other hand, a fairly decent target for midsized conferences and the interesting thing about them is there tends to be significantly more of them. I'd prefer we concentrated on maximising our returns rather than gambling on one big one for effect.

jd

Muahahaha wrote: »

They're the biggest conference company in Ireland. By a country mile too.

How may "country mile"s would that be to the ploughing championship?
Organised by an 80 year old without much fuss or ego!

brooke 2

jd wrote: »

How may "country mile"s would that be to the ploughing championship?
Organised by an 80 year old without much fuss or ego!

Amazing how she could grow that Ploughing Championship over the years to the mammoth which it now is and people still hardly know her name!! (Anna McHugh)

namloc1980

kidneyfan wrote: »

In fairness Web Summit were never given a price for what they wanted.
Clearly they would have had a number of bodies to liaise with for example Dublin Bus, Gardai, Dublin City Council and much of what they wanted would have been available for a price.

That's because they wanted it for free. Complimentary use of public buildings, waiving of various fees etc.

Muahahaha

ThisRegard wrote: »

What's it got to do with the department of an Taoiseach?

As for your misguided assertions, why do you think so many IT companies have pretty good setups here (I'm not talking about the boiler plates), do you think they all decided to locate here for the craic with no state involvement?

So on one hand you're saying State involvement for US IT companies is good but on the other we shouldn't have state involvement when an Irish company comes asking?

jd wrote: »

How may "country mile"s would that be to the ploughing championship?
Organised by an 80 year old without much fuss or ego!

eh since when is the Ploughing Championships a conference? It's a competition, sure its even there in the name

jd

Muahahaha wrote: »

eh since when is the Ploughing Championships a conference? It's a competition, sure its even there in the name

A lot more goes on there than the actual ploughing. Loads of presentations by companies etc.

smash

Muahahaha wrote: »

eh since when is the Ploughing Championships a conference? It's a competition, sure its even there in the name

It's an exhibition and trade show. The largest of it's kind in Europe. This year there were 281,000 attendees.