Residents object to temporary halting site

17-10-2015 12:03AM

Eugene Norman wrote: »

Conor74s schtick is to replace what he sees as anti- traveller bigotry with anti-Dublin bigotry in the hope it won't be reported. Feel free to report it.

I too have lived close to travellers. Walked through a site to get to shops. It wasn't the cleanest but it wasn't dangerous. Except the odd mangy dog.

However there are sub groups of criminality amongst travellers. ( often in settled traveller housing).

The "shtick" for some is to try and hide their hatred for travellers behind a veneer of care about planning and development, or more laughably house prices.

I was referring to people with a perceived track record in criminality moving in nearby. That's bang on topic. But report away if it's uncomfortable reading.

Filmer Paradise · 17-10-2015 12:07AM

bubblypop wrote: »

Why are the council putting the travellers in a field?
That's it, just a field at the end of a cul de sac.

There's a empty halting site, with at least 5 houses and 3 or 4 bays within a six minute drive of where the fire took place.
Why don't they put them there? Services in place and its not at the end of a residential cul de sac.

Maybe it's because there was a major tragedy in the family. Or maybe it's because Travellers in general have made a selfless & massive contribution to Irish society over several generations.

Who can tell?

Tigger · 17-10-2015 12:10AM

Deleted User wrote: »

The "shtick" for some is to try and hide their hatred for travellers behind a veneer of care about planning and development, or more laughably house prices.

I was referring to people with a perceived track record in criminality moving in nearby. That's bang on topic. But report away if it's uncomfortable reading.

a perceived track record of criminality will devalue an area, thats an economic fact fact not a way of hiding hatred

Sheep Lover · 17-10-2015 12:12AM

Filmer Paradise wrote: »

It's because of their vast contribution to the wider society in general.

Sheep Lover will fill you in on the main points.

No need for the petty remarks. You were found out as a spoofer, best leave it now before you make a total ham of yourself

Eugene Norman · 17-10-2015 12:18AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I'd be interested in seeing planning objections upheld for loss of view or loss of privacy. Because of course a view is not a legal right at all, whereas privacy is only a very recent development in law and usually linked to the publication of images. You got links to decisions based on them?

Of course lack of privacy is a common planning objection. A loss of view can't be objected to in those words, loss of amenity etc

Eugene Norman · 17-10-2015 12:21AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The "shtick" for some is to try and hide their hatred for travellers behind a veneer of care about planning and development, or more laughably house prices.

I was referring to people with a perceived track record in criminality moving in nearby. That's bang on topic. But report away if it's uncomfortable reading.

You are the only person generalising in this thread as far as I can see. You don't want dubliners moving in next door because of what you perceive to be dubliner criminality, however you are not convinced the planning laws would help you.

Roger Hassenforder · 17-10-2015 12:24AM

Deleted User wrote: »

I was referring to people with a perceived track record in criminality moving in nearby. That's bang on topic. But report away if it's uncomfortable reading.

Any similar stats for the Jackeens, as are available for travellers?
#http://www.iprt.ie/files/IPRT_Travellers_Report_web.pdf

" these figures suggest Traveller men are between five and 11 times more likely than other men to be imprisoned, while Traveller women face a risk of imprisonment as much as 18 to 22 times higher than that of the general
population."
&
"MacGabhann reported that over half (51.7%) of offences involving Irish Travellers related to unlawfully obtaining property, compared with 30.5% of
all prisoners. Such offences included robbery (14.5%),burglary (26.4%) and theft and handling (7.8%)." (albeit Irish travellers in Britain)

or the high unemployment levels at 84%
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/80-of-travellers-unemployed-cso-211310.html
play with tables here: http://www.cso.ie/en/census/census2011reports/census2011profile7religionethnicityandirishtravellers-ethnicandculturalbackgroundinireland/

ted1 · 17-10-2015 12:24AM

smash wrote: »

"Temporary"

Sure...

It's gotten so much publicity the council have no choice but to make it temporary.

The new permanent site isn't to far from me and work has started already . It was closed in 2008/2009 there have been no complaints from anyone around here

the_syco · 17-10-2015 12:34AM

X family will be in the new halting site/have developed roots in the area/kids are going to the local school/etc, so they won't want to move.

Irish Praetorian wrote: »

Can someone set out for me the reasoning behind having the government provide halting sites in the first place? Does the traditional method of buying land and then living on it not work? Don't normally see this much effort put into homelessness.

They give them free land so that they don't illegally camp on some farmers land. A couple of threats of violence, and most farmers will not complain to the Gardai that there are travellers have illegally trespassed and camped on their land. Furthermore, if they camp on the side of the road, no-one will even try to move them on.

Deleted User wrote: »

But my attitude about Dubs and their criminality does not give me licence to stop them moving in if it's legal.

If the government used their powers to put 4 dubs per square meter in a shed that takes up your entire back garden, with a right of way through your house, you'd be okay with that? I'm sorry, but I'm not buying that.

Sheep Lover wrote: »

Do you live near travellers or have you based your opinion on them from what the people on AH have told you.

Yes. They parked in places around Leixlip, making said road a no-go area for local walkers, as people would be afraid to go near their encampment in the evening. One of the spots they camped at was here, and the local county council have had to put the bollards there to stop any more setting up there.

Deleted User wrote: »

or maybe a mosque, or a park where kids skate, or a MacDonalds, and so on.

Local facilities such as these tend to drive prices up. A halting site only benefits those in it.

bubblypop wrote: »

There's a empty halting site, with at least 5 houses and 3 or 4 bays within a six minute drive of where the fire took place.
Why don't they put them there? Services in place and its not at the end of a residential cul de sac.

I think someone said that there was a family feud with one of the people living there?

ted1 wrote: »

It's gotten so much publicity the council have no choice but to make it temporary.

The residents point was that the one that got burnt down was also temporary.

And was only temporarily there 8 years.

steddyeddy · 17-10-2015 12:38AM

Hey guys late to the discussion but I'll add my two cents. Here's a snippet from a study conducted on some less intelligent white people's perception of black people moving into the neighborhood.

So my opinion based on that is the people saying they wouldn't want people like travelers etc near them are the same breed (unfortunately an all too common breed) of people who would worry that blacks bring down the house prices. In other word people who more educated people like me wouldn't like to live near. If my post appeared condescending it's because I'm coming from several levels higher than a lot of people on this thread.

Hypotheses about how racial group identity, stereotypes, and experiences of discrimination influenced the effect of race of residents upon neighborhood preferences were tested and show that for whites, those who hold negative stereotypes about African Americans and the neighborhoods where they live are significantly influenced by neighborhood racial composition.

alcea · 17-10-2015 12:41AM

whatismyname wrote: »

https://twitter.com/newschambers/status/655009971944443905

In all fairness, this was my first thought. I don't for a second think that there is anybody who would have objection to these people, who have suffered such a huge and unimaginable loss, a place to grieve maybe in some way recuperate.

I wonder if it would make a difference that the second the site is decommissioned the Council will make a commitment that it will be barricaded and works will immediately commence on turning the site into it's intended purpose?

Smidge · 17-10-2015 12:46AM

Deleted User wrote: »

No, I wouldn't like dozens of Dubs moving into my back garden.

But my attitude about Dubs and their criminality does not give me licence to stop them moving in if it's legal.

You're gonna need a bigger broom for your sweeping generalisations Conor.

june2015 · 17-10-2015 12:49AM

ted1 wrote: »

It's gotten so much publicity the council have no choice but to make it temporary.

The new permanent site isn't to far from me and work has started already . It was closed in 2008/2009 there have been no complaints from anyone around here

Where abouts is the new permanent site to be located?

ted1 · 17-10-2015 12:51AM

the_syco wrote: »

The residents point was that the one that got burnt down was also temporary.

And was only temporarily there 8 years.

Let's call a spade a spade the residents don't want pikeys on their road.

This has got so much publicity the council can't keep the site open for more than 8 months.

The site in Ballybrack/killiney/shankill will be ready before then.

ted1 · 17-10-2015 12:54AM

june2015 wrote: »

Where abouts is the new permanent site to be located?

On shanganag has road heading towards shankill just before the commons road.

Here: Dropped pin
near Shanganagh Rd, Dublin
https://goo.gl/maps/pGLskgrBvVM2

hatrickpatrick · 17-10-2015 03:13AM

ted1 wrote: »

On shanganag has road heading towards shankill just before the commons road.

Here: Dropped pin
near Shanganagh Rd, Dublin
https://goo.gl/maps/pGLskgrBvVM2

Whereabouts? There are only houses in that particilar spot as far as I can see, unless there's a field behind them which isn't marked on the map?

EDIT: Could it be this empty lot at the intersection of Commons Road?

https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.242317,-6.1216613,3a,75y,327.65h,87.01t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1seyfBIEHm9LmuSmdD1Ia9Ng!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

hatrickpatrick · 17-10-2015 03:27AM

Smidge wrote: »

You're gonna need a bigger broom for your sweeping generalisations Conor.

Whooooooooosh

17-10-2015 05:48AM

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Any similar stats for the Jackeens, as are available for travellers?
#http://www.iprt.ie/files/IPRT_Travellers_Report_web.pdf

" these figures suggest Traveller men are between five and 11 times more likely than other men to be imprisoned, while Traveller women face a risk of imprisonment as much as 18 to 22 times higher than that of the general
population."
&
"MacGabhann reported that over half (51.7%) of offences involving Irish Travellers related to unlawfully obtaining property, compared with 30.5% of
all prisoners. Such offences included robbery (14.5%),burglary (26.4%) and theft and handling (7.8%)." (albeit Irish travellers in Britain)

or the high unemployment levels at 84%
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/80-of-travellers-unemployed-cso-211310.html
play with tables here: http://www.cso.ie/en/census/census2011reports/census2011profile7religionethnicityandirishtravellers-ethnicandculturalbackgroundinireland/

Thanks for the links showing the extraordinary rates of imprisonment of travellers for crimes against property. One thinks of similar issues with the marginalised in America.

I didn't know unemployment was a crime. That's an interesting suggestion. You wouldn't like unemployed people in your neighbourhood? Do they affect house prices? The absolute bounders, you should employ someone to go around and trash them into a job!

17-10-2015 05:56AM

steddyeddy wrote: »

Hey guys late to the discussion but I'll add my two cents. Here's a snippet from a study conducted on some less intelligent white people's perception of black people moving into the neighborhood.

So my opinion based on that is the people saying they wouldn't want people like travelers etc near them are the same breed (unfortunately an all too common breed) of people who would worry that blacks bring down the house prices. In other word people who more educated people like me wouldn't like to live near. If my post appeared condescending it's because I'm coming from several levels higher than a lot of people on this thread.

It's all a bit like "Love Thy Neighbour", the UK sitcom, when the white people regarded the black family who moved in next door with fear and suspicion. Hard to think that you still get traces of that same mentality over 40 years later, the "but what will it do to the neighbourhood, what will it do about house prices" routine. Even in 1970s Britain it was held up for ridicule.

Roger Hassenforder · 17-10-2015 07:23AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Thanks for the links showing the extraordinary rates of imprisonment of travellers for crimes against property. One thinks of similar issues with the marginalised in America.

I didn't know unemployment was a crime. That's an interesting suggestion. You wouldn't like unemployed people in your neighbourhood? Do they affect house prices? The absolute bounders, you should employ someone to go around and trash them into a job!

You're very welcome.

So no similar stats on Jackeens then...

ted1 · 17-10-2015 07:31AM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Whereabouts? There are only houses in that particilar spot as far as I can see, unless there's a field behind them which isn't marked on the map?

EDIT: Could it be this empty lot at the intersection of Commons Road?

https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.242317,-6.1216613,3a,75y,327.65h,87.01t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1seyfBIEHm9LmuSmdD1Ia9Ng!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

They are getting the houses.

Avatar MIA · 17-10-2015 07:41AM

http://www.sligotoday.ie/details.php?id=26808

I think I'd be a little peeved myself.

Bebopclown · 17-10-2015 09:39AM

Ive had dealings with this family and they where not pleasant at all. I used to work near them and they made it a living hell. I would not want this family anywhere near me.

JustTheOne · 17-10-2015 10:17AM

Does revenue or cab ever get involved in travellers earnings?

I miss one payment and revenue are all over me like a tonne of bricks.

Azalea · 17-10-2015 10:21AM

Sheep Lover wrote: »

1 pic of a dead toddler on a beach in Europe and people were going to put up millions of refugees in their homes.

10 dead kids in a nearby community and they won't let the families temporarily live in a field next door.

Strange world

A lot of people who seem like they would normally be sensible, and attuned to inanity, have thanked this meaningless soundbite (no offence Sheep Lover, but it is) just because it's convenient, but let's face it: there is absolutely no evidence that they're the same people, and very likely aren't.
Sorry folks, no grounds for the allegations of hypocrisy (satisfying as it might be) here.

icebergiceberg · 17-10-2015 11:05AM

Does anybody know how many halting sites there are in Dublin legal and illegal? Where are they all? Different posters are giving such different experiences of living near travellers in sites it could lead you to believe there are thousands of sites in Dublin. Different people may have different experiences of the same halting site.

Where are they? Does the council have a list of them legal and illegal?

I do have sympathy for the bereaved, of course I do. But hand on heart, i would not like to live anywhere near travellers. My property would immediately be devalued.

Unfortunately, most are not particularly interested in working.
Most get married by 18-20 without a decent education giving themselves no chance in life.
Most leave school by 15-16.
Most have a lot of kids in their families and one reason (outside of the fact that having children is a blessing and a joy to anybody) I suspect is because the more kids mean more money that you do'nt have to work for. This is a short sighted view as when kids turn 18 that money stops.

anewme · 17-10-2015 11:15AM

Bebopclown wrote: »

Ive had dealings with this family and they where not pleasant at all. I used to work near them and they made it a living hell. I would not want this family anywhere near me.

There have been a good few other comments in the same vein in media and social media. Because there has been a terrible tragedy involved, people don't want to speak out because they will be accused of being heartless.

It's terrible that the residents are bring made to feel they are doing something wrong in trying to protect themselves, their families and their properties.

I would go ballistic if that happened on my road(I don't care if you call me a nimby) I'd rather be a nimby than shut up and put up with crap.

I also know my neighbours would object and yet some of them are commenting on the likes if facebook, oh that's terrible.

The council are being the real gutless wonders here and the residents are being made scapegoats. Its pure politics and game playing ...It's very unfair.

steddyeddy · 17-10-2015 11:20AM

Azalea wrote: »

A lot of people who seem like they would normally be sensible, and attuned to inanity, have thanked this meaningless soundbite (no offence Sheep Lover, but it is) just because it's convenient, but let's face it: there is absolutely no evidence that they're the same people, and very likely aren't.
Sorry folks, no grounds for the allegations of hypocrisy (satisfying as it might be) here.

No but there's considerable grounds for saying that the same people talking about travellers lowering house prices would be the same guys talking about blacks lowering house prices.

17-10-2015 11:24AM

anewme wrote: »

I also know my neighbours would object and yet some of them are commenting on the likes if facebook, oh that's terrible.

And how did they react when you told them you knew them better than they knew themselves?

17-10-2015 11:26AM

steddyeddy wrote: »

No but there's considerable grounds for saying that the same people talking about travellers lowering house prices would be the same guys talking about blacks lowering house prices.

If the point is house prices, of course they would. Immigrants too, they have a direct and damaging effect on house prices. You really want nice white Catholic neighbours with the right pedigree to optimise the value of a house.

Residents object to temporary halting site

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