Residents object to temporary halting site

Canadel

Deleted User wrote: »

It's all a bit like "Love Thy Neighbour", the UK sitcom, when the white people regarded the black family who moved in next door with fear and suspicion. Hard to think that you still get traces of that same mentality over 40 years later, the "but what will it do to the neighbourhood, what will it do about house prices" routine. Even in 1970s Britain it was held up for ridicule.

It was because they were, and still are, more likely to be poor, rather than their skin colour. The fact that travellers are white and suffer more in this regard is evidence of this.

The difference between travellers and a black family however, regardless of socioeconomic status, is that travellers have their own entirely unique culture which can come into conflict with that of the settled community.

c montgomery

[Deleted User] wrote: »

And how did they react when you told them you knew them better than they knew themselves?

Jesus wept !

c montgomery

The number of traveller males with a criminal record is a big multiple of that of settled people, based on my experience.
I wouldnt want to bring that element into my area.

c montgomery

c montgomery wrote: »

Jesus wept !

Person runs to AH to give out about comments posted by his/her friends on Facebook because they are perceived as being insincere. You have to laugh really, not weep.

Barry Badrinath

Id love to know the Council's rationale behind the decision.

Who rolled out the map of Council owned land and had the brain wave to pick that location? Did they throw a dart from 20ft away and picked where ever it landed? Idiots.

They need a serious hand slap for creating this mess.

They chose a greenfield site with no existing infrastructure. A site that presently has insufficent access for what is currently there, never mind adding to it.

They have alternative sites available. Some of which were functioning as traveller sites in the past. Surely these ready to go sites would be a better choice.

Its like they wanted to hide them away down a narrow cul de sac and forget about them for another 8 years.

F ucking disgrace!

Avatar MIA

Wolf Hanssen wrote: »

Did they throw a dart from 20ft away and picked where ever it landed?

Nah, if they did that the dart could easily have landed near one of their homes. Couldn't be having that.

Barry Badrinath

I would be interested to know if the people who represent the traveling community have approached existing traveller sites and requested to facilitate temporary homing there.

Shouldnt they all pull together in solidarity and put aside feuds in the interest of preserving their way of life.

icebergiceberg

Canadel wrote: »

It was because they were, and still are, more likely to be poor, rather than their skin colour. The fact that travellers are white and suffer more in this regard is evidence of this.

The difference between travellers and a black family however, regardless of socioeconomic status, is that travellers have their own entirely unique culture which can come into conflict with that of the settled community.

I would say that is correct.

Travellers next door to you will lower the value of your house. There is nothing complex about why. A family of Nigerians will most probably do the same. Why? Again, not necessarily because of skin colour, (but that would certainly have a part to play in it if you don't like black people) but mainly because Nigerians would probably be from a poorer socio-economic background and perhaps unemployed.

If a large family of Nigerian doctors, husband and wife, with children going to medical school arrived next door to you, would your property be devalued? Would you mind? Probably not I would say. You would probably have a Merc or two in their driveway and you would welcome them as neighbours. Skin colour not too important in that case. But if a large Nigerian family moved in next door and the parents worked in Supervalue or in Pizza delivery, would you mind? Would your property be devalued?

anewme

Deleted User wrote: »

And how did they react when you told them you knew them better than they knew themselves?

Not sure what you mean. We had an issue with travellers last year and they objected very vocally then, they would object again if they came back I'm sure.

anewme

Deleted User wrote: »

Person runs to AH to give out about comments posted by his/her friends on Facebook because they are perceived as being insincere. You have to laugh really, not weep.

firstly, I'm not running anywhere.

secondly, am not saying anything here that I haven't said directly to their faces or replied directly to their comments reminding them of previous incidents.

anewme

anewme wrote: »

firstly, I'm not running anywhere.

secondly, am not saying anything here that I haven't said directly to their faces or replied directly to their comments reminding them of previous incidents.

Well then you can answer the question I asked!

I asked what did they say when you replied to their comments, to which one poster said "Jesus wept" and you said "not sure what you mean".

Canadel

icebergiceberg wrote: »

If a large family of Nigerian doctors, husband and wife, with children going to medical school arrived next door to you, would your property be devalued? Would you mind? Probably not I would say. You would probably have a Merc or two in their driveway and you would welcome them as neighbours. Skin colour not too important in that case. But if a large Nigerian family moved in next door and the parents worked in Supervalue or in Pizza delivery, would you mind? Would your property be devalued?

This is true, the reality being however that more often than not that Nigerian family are more likely to be working min wage jobs than as doctors etc which is why the stigma exists. Basically, if Barack Obama moved in beside you next year you wouldn't be worrying about anything other than how to spend the massively inflated price you would get for selling your house.

steddyeddy

Canadel wrote: »

It was because they were, and still are, more likely to be poor, rather than their skin colour. The fact that travellers are white and suffer more in this regard is evidence of this.

The difference between travellers and a black family however, regardless of socioeconomic status, is that travellers have their own entirely unique culture which can come into conflict with that of the settled community.

Actually no it was due to a multitude of factors such as perceived inclination towards criminality and a conflict of culture.

Bigots are bigots. It doesn't become less bigoted because they're travellers.

gizmo555

Canadel wrote: »

The difference between travellers and a black family however, regardless of socioeconomic status, is that travellers have their own entirely unique culture which can come into conflict with that of the settled community.

Like engaging in a pre-planned riot a inside a church at a confirmation ceremony?

So pre-planned was last week’s riot at a Confirmation service in Ballinrobe, that both sides in the Traveller feud filmed the events with camcorders.

The brawl, involving as many as 30 people, erupted towards the end of a packed Confirmation service for 97 local children at St Mary’s Church in Ballinrobe. Slash hooks and hurls were among the weapons produced in the brawl.

Or shooting your uncle dead at your niece's wedding?

Patrick McGinley appeared at Omagh Magistrates’ Court on Saturday charged with the murder of Bernard McGinley, close to St Mary’s Catholic church in Newtownbutler moments before the ceremony was due to start.

The 63-year-old victim, a well-known Traveller from Longford town in the Republic of Ireland, was shot in the chest in front of his wife Brigid on Wednesday 11 February. Another man was also injured in the shooting.

The accused, from Lisfarrell, Edgeworthstown also in Co Longford, is the uncle of the bride, who went ahead with the ceremony a short time after the shooting.

The initial news reports on both of these incidents avoided mentioning that they involved travellers, but such is the nature of traveller culture that it was instantly obvious.

Jaketherake

Wolf Hanssen wrote: »

Id love to know the Council's rationale behind the decision.

Who rolled out the map of Council owned land and had the brain wave to pick that location? Did they throw a dart from 20ft away and picked where ever it landed? Idiots.

They need a serious hand slap for creating this mess.

They chose a greenfield site with no existing infrastructure. A site that presently has insufficent access for what is currently there, never mind adding to it.

They have alternative sites available. Some of which were functioning as traveller sites in the past. Surely these ready to go sites would be a better choice.

Its like they wanted to hide them away down a narrow cul de sac and forget about them for another 8 years.

F ucking disgrace!

They rolled out the map and picked the furthest location from where they live themselves.

Barry Badrinath

steddyeddy wrote: »

Actually no it was due to a multitude of factors such as perceived inclination towards criminality and a conflict of culture.

Bigots are bigots. It doesn't become less bigoted because they're travellers.

I dont think its fair to label the residents bigots and leave it at that.

They are familiar with the family, their habits and behaviours. They have knowledge and experience of them.

Its not opposition to some random traveller site being erected.

They have legitimate concerns over the functionality of the area and of course who it is bring catered for.

A troublesome family is a troublesome family, traveller or settled. Its as simple as that.

Eugene Norman

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If the point is house prices, of course they would. Immigrants too, they have a direct and damaging effect on house prices. You really want nice white Catholic neighbours with the right pedigree to optimise the value of a house.

Immigration almost certainly drives up house prices.

Like most self righteous virtue signallers you do like to put people in a box. Apparently the mods don't act on supposedly ironic generalisations. I might take your commentary on Dubliners to feedback.

I'm inclined to deny accusations of racism because I've got non white children but would be fairly wary about living beside a travellers site because, you know, there are social problems.

(Not the least of which is traveller racism towards non-whites. )

Also they aren't a race.

Also even if "we as a society" were to blame for the 84% unemployment rates ( which survived the boom) and the "over criminalisation" of "marginalised groups" that wouldn't be something I personally could solve by living beside travellers.

The solution to this nimbyism is of course to put traveller sites in the richest areas of Dublin and indeed by invitation to anywhere else where the bestest virtue signallers live. Unlike other forms of poverty which can be sticky by neighbourhood travellers can move around, it seems unfair to put the sites only in the least resourced parts of Ireland.

anewme

Deleted User wrote: »

Well then you can answer the question I asked!

I asked what did they say when you replied to their comments, to which one poster said "Jesus wept" and you said "not sure what you mean".

i was not sure if you meant did I say it to them or not?

the response was but that was different, there are enough of them here already in our County so everyone should take their share. I think also tried to say they were different people in this case which did not make sense either

Eugene Norman

Eugene Norman wrote: »

Immigration almost certainly drives up house prices...

Not according to this...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/10954665/Immigration-damages-house-prices-say-Home-Office-advisers.html

I see you then launched into the usual shtick about me, how you might report me to the mods blah blah blah... I'm all nervous like!

Eugene Norman

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Not according to this...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/10954665/Immigration-damages-house-prices-say-Home-Office-advisers.html

I see you then launched into the usual shtick about me, how you might report me to the mods blah blah blah... I'm all nervous like!

I've already reported your posts which were the only real bigoted statistic free posts here. They haven't been actioned. I can't discuss that here of course.

Of course the levels of immigration pushes up house prices, depending on supply.

Eugene Norman

Eugene Norman wrote: »

I've already reported your posts which were the only real bigoted statistic free posts here. They haven't been actioned. I can't discuss that here of course.

Of course the levels of immigration pushes up house prices, depending on supply.

Could you set up another thread and fill it with all the posts where you say you've reported my posts? That way I could refer to it every time I wanted a laugh, and your posts here would be on topic. It's win win.

Now, where do you think the findings of the UK Home Office that immigration has a direct and quantifiable effect on dropping house prices were wrong? You can leave out the red herring of supply and demand.

Bebopclown

Wolf Hanssen wrote: »

I dont think its fair to label the residents bigots and leave it at that.

They are familiar with the family, their habits and behaviours. They have knowledge and experience of them.

Its not opposition to some random traveller site being erected.

They have legitimate concerns over the functionality of the area and of course who it is bring catered for.

A troublesome family is a troublesome family, traveller or settled. Its as simple as that.

And this family are very troublesome.

Barry Badrinath

Bebopclown wrote: »

And this family are very troublesome.

I'm aware, I have had multiple dealings with them also.

anewme

Bebopclown wrote: »

And this family are very troublesome.

Wolf Hanssen wrote: »

I'm aware, I have had multiple dealings with them also.

Why on earth would the residents invite trouble into their homes if this is known.

The residents know better than any of us why they are objecting. I feel for them being made scapegoats. Alan Kelly should be ashamed of himself trying to pin the blame on them.

Tipsy McSwagger

There's not one person on here who would be happy if travellers moved in beside them, if you say you wouldn't mind then you're a goddamn liar.

Sheep Lover

Azalea wrote: »

A lot of people who seem like they would normally be sensible, and attuned to inanity, have thanked this meaningless soundbite (no offence Sheep Lover, but it is) just because it's convenient, but let's face it: there is absolutely no evidence that they're the same people, and very likely aren't.
Sorry folks, no grounds for the allegations of hypocrisy (satisfying as it might be) here.

Really? Have a scroll through this thread even. Posters a couple of weeks ago were going to let immigrants sleep on their couch after seeing one picture and the same posters are here now objecting to a family who have suffered a horrific a place to live, even in a nearby field.

I suppose it's cool to be all up for the immigrants and it's not for travellers. Spoofers all anyway.

steddyeddy

Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »

There's not one person on here who would be happy if travellers moved in beside them, if you say you wouldn't mind then you're a goddamn liar.

Yea I've heard people say they same about black people.

Wibbs

Sheep Lover wrote: »

1 pic of a dead toddler on a beach in Europe and people were going to put up millions of refugees in their homes.

10 dead kids in a nearby community and they won't let the families temporarily live in a field next door.

Strange world

Not really. I'd bet the farm those responding to the beach pic with outpourings of support would hum and haw if a Syrian family actually showed to their door. It was something distant and "exotic" and emotional. And will have a time limit, mark my words. Meh fast forward AH to after Xmas and it'll never be mentioned again, beyond a "remember that picture. OMG Loike". On the other hand the actual hard fact of a group of people with a less than stellar reputation actually showing up to live nearby? Big difference.

Kermit.de.frog

Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »

There's not one person on here who would be happy if travellers moved in beside them, if you say you wouldn't mind then you're a goddamn liar.

It's easier to preach tolerance when you are not the one affected.


There is not a single poster here who would be happy to have travellers move in beside them. The reasons don't need to be explained.

It's about crime, anti-social behaviour and the affect on property values. It's not the settled community that have dreamt up these concerns. It's reality and experience for anyone that has had a halting site - legit or not - appear near them.

Wibbs

steddyeddy wrote: »

Yea I've heard people say they same about black people.

And they'd be idiots. However it's not a very good comparison at all. "Black people" are not even close to a homogenous group, nor culture. Whole heap of difference between a Londoner of African extraction compared to a member of Boko Harem. Travellers are and claim to be an ethnic group with a common culture. And what is that culture, more what is the average settled persons perceptions and experiences of that culture? At best it's tacky weddings and 12 year olds twerking, going up the line it's destruction of the area they're living in and at worst it's pretty serious criminality. The latter is statistically sound with it.

Does this mean all Travellers are to be painted with the same broad strokes? No, or it shouldn't , but it makes it damned difficult not to when the perception driven by a large section of their culture is an all too concrete one.