My Mother Got Fined

Unrelenting Sorrow wrote: »

however, there is more to this than meets the eye. At first, I was very disappointed in her but then I learned that the Leap Card machine wasn't working (apparently the machine at Kilbarrack is permanently broke) - so I asked her if she maybe she did it too fast as the train was right in front !

Did your mother tell you that she couldnt tag on at the time because the machine was broken or did you hear later that the tag pole never works so are looking for a way not to pay the fine based on "Sure the pole never works anyway " ? Im just trying to paint the picture here and not judging in anyway.

The barber of chewbacca wrote: »

The Kilbarrack ticket office is open on a part-time basis. As far as I know, there is only one employee who works there.

The Leap machines are constantly broken.

I have often jumped on the train without tagging on, usually going into the city centre. I get off at Tara Street and approach the guys at the ticket barrier and explain the situation. They have never had an issue with it and I just pay them the fare. I'm not sure about other stations though.

Does it work out cheaper than tagging off and then ring Leap and get them to reimburse the balance ?

devnull wrote: »

There are four ways to tag on/off at Kilbarrack. I find it hard to believe they re all broken.

If you get on at the northbound platform and the train has just arrived i cant see anyone walking over the bridge to tag on and then back again if the one at the swans nest gate is not working.

The barber of chewbacca wrote: »

The two barriers are rarely, if ever, broken. However, the ticket office, where the barriers are located, is closed for a lot of the day.

The tag on/off machines are broken on a consistent basis.

There are ways around it though. Inconvenient as it may be, you could jump on at Kilbarrack and get off at Raheny or Howth Junction to validate your ticket. You could walk to either of these stations as they are not far away. Or as I previously mentioned, explain to the staff at your destination.

If the ticket office is open, there is no excuse for not having a valid ticket.

I cant see anyone getting off or even going to another station just to tag on if the poles are not working, i doubt anyone in Irish Rail would expect you to either.

Unrelenting Sorrow wrote: »

Yes, my mother tried to pay at the validator at the gate. Does that one usually work?

Anyways, good thing I use Dublin Bus more than Irish Rail. :P

Yes, as its gets used by a lot of people daily without any problems.

Unrelenting Sorrow wrote: »

So, is there any way out for her or will she just have to cough up the dough?

You can always appeal, stating that the validator wasnt working at the time and the train was at the station and they cant expect someone to cross over the bridge to tag on and wait another 30 minutes for the next train. Just bear in mind they have a daily record of which machines are not working.

Unrelenting Sorrow wrote: »

She goes to an English course in Kilbarrack and goes home via the North gate (we live in Portmarnock), train was right in front of her so I guess she was in that desperation mentality. We have a month to appeal this letter, I think we'll do it. What's the worst that can happen?

Thats the bit that might go against you, it comes across that she didnt tag on properly because she was in a hurry. Worst case is that the fine will be upheld.

Unrelenting Sorrow wrote: »

She was fined on the 6th October, 2015, at 13:10pm (1:30pm). She attempted to pay through the North gate so she was nowhere near the Southern ticket office. There. Does that answer your question, sir?

I take it you mean 1:10? At which point after getting on the train in killbarack did she get fined? sounds very unlucky seeing that she was only going 3 stops.

FishOnABike wrote: »

Could these posts constitute supporting evidence that it is not uncommon for there to be no means of payment prior to embarkation .

No as we can post anything we want on here its no proof that it actually happened.

They need to make the northside dart stations more secure to stop people getting on and off without paying. Kilbarrack being the worst of them , the far gate is left open 24/7 allowing access to the network without paying. If they are serious about revenue protection and passenger safety then they should invest in making these stations secure.

devnull wrote: »

people here are clearly jus tlooking for an excuse to evade rather than honestly not being able to pay.

no, i don't agree. genuine reasons can come up as to why people can't pay. mostly du to what sounds like, irish rail not looking after its equipment, or at least not being aware when it breaks and having something in place to deal with fare payment. this issue comes up here time and time again, i'd suggest there is some bit of a problem on irish rails side. fare evasion is a problem but irish rail aren't helping themselves by not ensuring their equipment is working, or at least not knowing about it and putting something in place to give people a chance to pay. this type of thing only makes me believe more that the penalty fare system is being used as a form of revenue collection rather then a genuine attempt to curb fare evasion TBH.

end of the road wrote: »

no, i don't agree. genuine reasons can come up as to why people can't pay. mostly du to what sounds like, irish rail not looking after its equipment, or at least not being aware when it breaks and having something in place to deal with fare payment. this issue comes up here time and time again, i'd suggest there is some bit of a problem on irish rails side. fare evasion is a problem but irish rail aren't helping themselves by not ensuring their equipment is working, or at least not knowing about it and putting something in place to give people a chance to pay. this type of thing only makes me believe more that the penalty fare system is being used as a form of revenue collection rather then a genuine attempt to curb fare evasion TBH.

To be fair and not in all cases there are those that blame faulty equipment rather than their own actions .

Hilly Bill wrote: »

To be fair and not in all cases there are those that blame faulty equipment rather than their own actions .

i agree, however it does seem to me irish rail does have an issue with ensuring their ticket machines work, or at least knowing when they don't so something can be put in place to make sure people get a chance to pay

runawaybishop wrote: »

The validators are working in all stations across the country 100% of the time and have been since 1920.

Is my sarcasm detector broken. Numerous posts seem to indicate multiple non functional validators at a station are a somewhat regular occurrence.

end of the road wrote: »

clearly not



when and where has ireland had TVMS since 1920?



who would be submitting boards posts as evidence anyway?



she did if the working one is at the other platform and say, the lift wasn't working or the footbridge was shut or dangerous.

FishOnABike wrote: »

Is my sarcasm detector broken. Numerous posts seem to indicate multiple non functional validators at a station are a somewhat regular occurrence.

The poster was making the point (through sarcasm) that posts on boards aren't worth the paper they're (not) written on in evidential terms or in terms of accuracy.

Can't she use the name of the inspector and say that he advised her to appeal the fine as he must have also thought it was wrong (but had to do his duty).

Eugene Norman wrote: »

I don't think they should be allowed to fine any leap card in credit. If the user jumps the gates at the end then catch him.

With a leap card you pay on exit, a hold is put on the card on entrance.

Wrong, you pay on entry. It puts money back onto the card if the fare is less than €4:70.

devnull wrote: »

No - you are wrong. As one of the first testers for the LEAP card years ago, I know exactly how it works. If you don't believe me go and register your leap card online and see what it tells you. Fares are deducted and then refunded when you tag off.

Also the balance is stored on the card. There is no way money can be deducted from a card without it coming into contact with a validator, a gate or a ticket machine or a top-up machine. It simply isn't possible ..



It's about having a deterrent as well. If the punishment is little then people are more likely to risk it knowing that even if they get caught several times a year, the money they save on the times they don't get caught is vastly more than what they lose when they are caught. That's why there is an argument for making the fine as high as possible.

It astounds me on this board in the last few days the number of people who advocate making things easier for fare dodgers and thinking they are treated too harshly. I have never skipped a fare in my life but I'm starting to think I'm in the minority here.

equipping the card with a chip and having detection equipment on the trains and busses for which the chip would come into contact with which would alert to use of the service might be the way forward. then if one doesn't tag on or off the fare can simply be deducted however far they travel. either way long term a new system needs to be found as the penalty fare system isn't working. it will probably do for now as its better then nothing but long term a new solution is needed

end of the road wrote: »

clearly not



when and where has ireland had TVMS since 1920?



who would be submitting boards posts as evidence anyway?



she did if the working one is at the other platform and say, the lift wasn't working or the footbridge was shut or dangerous.

Whoosh.

Jon Stark wrote: »

That's it, let someone be delayed from wherever they're going just because Irish Rail are too cheap to properly man a station and actually have machines that work.

Machines break down. There are usually more than one. If checking another machine delays you then you should have left earlier. If you can't be bothered to check another machine then you are entitled to be fined.