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UK forces kill own citizens in Syria

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Comments

  • #92
    Gatling
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    The Randy Riverbeast wrote: »
    Werent these guys in a recruitment video for ISIS? I suppose they could have just been paid actors.

    You might be blown away by the reply
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




  • #93
    Eugene Norman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,191 ✭✭✭Eugene Norman


    CruelCoin wrote: »
    They declared ISIS terrorists, and Britain sees itself at war with all terrorists.

    This was obvious a decade ago.

    All of them? Wasn't it attempting to bomb Syria on behalf of the free Syrian army a mere two years ago.


  • #94
    Eugene Norman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,191 ✭✭✭Eugene Norman


    asherbassad wrote: »
    No, that's not a good fit at all. And it doesn't come close to the definition of treason.

    He was planning to kill the queen. Which does.


  • #95
    colossus-x
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,202 ✭✭✭colossus-x


    As much as the UK media outlets try there seems to be virtually no condemnation of the act despite whatever illegality my be involved. The sky news report quickly moved on to comment onto the wider refugee crisis in Syria to beef up the report which really just amounted to 'remember those British guys in that jihadi video, well they were killed by us'. Sure your gonna get the odd few who are going to say 'well maybe someone had a gun to their head in that video' type thing, but it would have been ludicrous to allow them to commit an atrocity first before taking action against them. With the amount of new recruits on the way to Syria I think this is a real coup for Cameron and I'm sure he was personally delighted to be making the announcement today. The utter stupidity of those people making that video and showing their faces is unbelievable and if they are capable of that then what other crazy acts were they capable off.


  • #96
    asherbassad
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,869 ✭✭✭asherbassad


    Gatling wrote: »
    That's like special I mean like super kinda special

    Well.....do you or don't you have instances of massacres? You brought it up, not me, so I'm just asking for you to back it up.

    Is Assad a psychopathic tyrant? I don't know..but you seem to know and seem to have all the answers that anyone would need to show this. So I'm just asking you to give a little information regarding all that you say. I'm waiting for the 12 opposition groups and I'm waiting for the massacres, Gatling.

    Am I asking too much or are you telling too much?


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  • #97
    Gatling
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    asherbassad wrote: »
    massacres

    Is Assad a psychopathic tyrant I'm waiting and I'm waiting for the massacres

    Am I asking too much telling too much?

    As I already stated my assad

    I like the user name
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




  • #98
    asherbassad
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,869 ✭✭✭asherbassad


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    In their fight against Assad? Yes. In anything else? No.

    It's possible to fight against Assad along side IS without actually funding, weaponising, or helping IS in any way. But to suggest that because Assad is an enemy of IS, we should punish people fighting against Assad, is madness. The guy is an evil despot and should not receive one shred of protection or support from the West.

    That's not very well thought out now is it? Sounds to me like the kind of thing you'd hear in the chipper at 2am.
    Wasn't Ghaddafi also this alleged despot who gave his troops viagra to rape people. Where will the gullibility of people end? Libya, once the richest and most stable country in Africa is now a hellzone with people flooding in their tens of thousands across the Med to escape the horror unleashed by NATO and their ISIS proxies. But forget about that disaster. Now let's move on to Syria and paint Assad as another despot who needs to be removed. Nevermind that Syria is giving refuge to 2 million Iraqis and has been since the geniuses in NATO decided that destroying Iraq was another superb idea. So 1.5 million dead Iraqis, 2 million living in refugee camps in Syria and now you want to take that 2 million and add another 5 million to it just for the craic like.

    And on top of it all you think that this kind of talk make you hard and everyone else a bleeding heart.
    Not only that but you think that the millions fleeing the horrors that have been unleashed upon them and arriving in Europe for a place to sleep away from the bombs should be turned back or left to drown and anyone who says otherwise is a tree-hugger.


  • #99
    Eugene Norman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,191 ✭✭✭Eugene Norman


    asherbassad wrote: »
    That's not very well thought out now is it? Sounds to me like the kind of thing you'd hear in the chipper at 2am.
    Wasn't Ghaddafi also this alleged despot who gave his troops viagra to rape people. Where will the gullibility of people end? Libya, once the richest and most stable country in Africa is now a hellzone with people flooding in their tens of thousands across the Med to escape the horror unleashed by NATO and their ISIS proxies. But forget about that disaster. Now let's move on to Syria and paint Assad as another despot who needs to be removed. Nevermind that Syria is giving refuge to 2 million Iraqis and has been since the geniuses in NATO decided that destroying Iraq was another superb idea. So 1.5 million dead Iraqis, 2 million living in refugee camps in Syria and now you want to take that 2 million and add another 5 million to it just for the craic like.

    And on top of it all you think that this kind of talk make you hard and everyone else a bleeding heart.
    Not only that but you think that the millions fleeing the horrors that have been unleashed upon them and arriving in Europe for a place to sleep away from the bombs should be turned back or left to drown and anyone who says otherwise is a tree-hugger.

    The thing is, this is a feature not a bug of neo-con strategy. The destabilisation of Europe and the Middle East are what the pyschopaths wanted.


  • #100
    KomradeBishop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,981 ✭✭✭KomradeBishop


    The UK just executed two of its citizens without a trial. The UK is not at war, anyone who supports these executions is an idiot, as it guarantees erosion of the legal rights of UK citizens.

    You don't play around with strictly legal issues like this, they are important for the integrity of democratic nations. There has to be due process here.


  • #101
    Lemming
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,166 ✭✭✭✭Lemming


    I find all the controversy hypocritical given that if nothing had been done and it transpired that said target (Khan, from Cardiff) came home and enacted plans of terror in the UK there'd be equal outrage, the only difference being lots of innocents dead along with said outrage and hand-wringing. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. These two scrote-bags willingly allowed themselves to be put in such situations; they chose to turn their backs on their country; they chose to follow a regime that preaches intolerance, hatred, brutality and horror; they chose to make themselves giant big red bullseyes. The innocents that they have killed, stood and watched killed, or were planning to kill yet never asked for it.

    So with all said and done, couldn't have happened to two nicer wastes of humanity's gene-pool. That's the cost of some missiles and aviation fuel well spent imo.


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  • #102
    KomradeBishop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,981 ✭✭✭KomradeBishop


    Due. Process.

    You don't get to execute your own countries citizens, without them having a trial. Doing so, sets an extremely dangerous precedent, that is a significant danger to democracy itself.

    No scaremongering about 'terrorists' and imaginary terrorist attacks, will ever justify executing citizens without due process.


  • #103
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,461 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    KomradeBishop wrote: »
    Due. Process.

    You don't get to execute your own countries citizens, without them having a trial. Doing so, sets an extremely dangerous precedent, that is a significant danger to democracy itself.

    No scaremongering about 'terrorists' and imaginary terrorist attacks, will ever justify executing citizens without due process.

    I would hardly call a combat zone full of combatants and execution, Did they not also renounce citizenship ?


  • #104
    KomradeBishop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,981 ✭✭✭KomradeBishop


    Are the UK at war? No. What legal standards are you applying? If the UK are not at war, these are UK citizens entitled to due process and a fair trail - not something to be taken lightly at all! (it's actually a critically important event, which just de-facto eroded the rights of all UK citizens)

    If you're claiming they renounced citizenship, it's up to you to show that. After a brief Google, I don't see anything indicating that for the first-mentioned victim.


  • #105
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,461 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    KomradeBishop wrote: »
    Are the UK at war? No. What legal standards are you applying? If the UK are not at war, these are UK citizens entitled to due process and a fair trail - not something to be taken lightly at all! (it's actually a critically important event, which just de-facto eroded the rights of all UK citizens)

    If you're claiming they renounced citizenship, it's up to you to show that. After a brief Google, I don't see anything indicating that for the first-mentioned victim.

    What legal standards are you applying ?


  • #106
    KomradeBishop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,981 ✭✭✭KomradeBishop


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    What legal standards are you applying ?
    I already stated - the due process rights afforded to all citizens of a country. If you want to supercede that in this case, you need to show the UK being in an official state of war - which they are not.


  • #107
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,461 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    KomradeBishop wrote: »
    I already stated - the due process rights afforded to all citizens of a country.

    But they have already come out with this being legal and above board.


  • #108
    Eugene Norman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,191 ✭✭✭Eugene Norman


    KomradeBishop wrote: »
    The UK just executed two of its citizens without a trial. The UK is not at war, anyone who supports these executions is an idiot, as it guarantees erosion of the legal rights of UK citizens.

    You don't play around with strictly legal issues like this, they are important for the integrity of democratic nations. There has to be due process here.

    It's probably an ECHR violation. But they've always given some operatives a licence to kill. Like James Bond.


  • #109
    KomradeBishop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,981 ✭✭✭KomradeBishop


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    But they have already come out with this being legal and above board.
    Citation needed. The previous UK government also claimed lied in stating that Iraq had WMD's, they are not to be trusted on word alone, there has to be due process.


  • #110
    Eugene Norman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,191 ✭✭✭Eugene Norman


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    But they have already come out with this being legal and above board.

    Well the UK doesn't have a constitution but they have incorporated European law where this may be a violation. Personally I don't have an issue with this morally, legally it's thorny.


  • #111
    KomradeBishop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,981 ✭✭✭KomradeBishop


    Eugene Norman wrote: »
    It's probably an ECHR violation. But they've always given some operatives a licence to kill. Like James Bond.
    To kill their own citizens? I think you'd need to show some past precedent for that. That's not just an ECHR violation, that's an extremely serious violation of the rights of citizens, of their own country - that is really dangerous to the democratic integrity of the UK.


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  • #112
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,461 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    KomradeBishop wrote: »
    Citation needed. The previous UK government also claimed lied in stating that Iraq had WMD's, they are not to be trusted on word alone, there has to be due process.

    Iraq was a war Britain declared it as such. I don't have to do a citation when they had that legal fella on saying it was above board.


  • #113
    KomradeBishop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,981 ✭✭✭KomradeBishop


    Eugene Norman wrote: »
    Well the UK doesn't have a constitution but they have incorporated European law where this may be a violation. Personally I don't have an issue with this morally, legally it's thorny.
    Morally it's outright wrong as well. The rule of law has to be followed, governments can't just pick and choose the law, and decide to execute their own countries citizens on a whim.


  • #114
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,461 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    KomradeBishop wrote: »
    To kill their own citizens? I think you'd need to show some past precedent for that. That's not just an ECHR violation, that's an extremely serious violation of the rights of citizens, of their own country - that is really dangerous to the democratic integrity of the UK.

    How so ? The people were combatants in a combat zone not in Wales.


  • #115
    KomradeBishop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,981 ✭✭✭KomradeBishop


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    Iraq was a war Britain declared it as such. I don't have to do a citation when they had that legal fella on saying it was above board.
    You just tried to sidestep my point. Government officials lie - it has been proven as such in the past - and a mere 'claim' that this execution-without-due-process is all above board, is worth fúck all. This is too serious to take any government officials word on it - due process is one of the most important principals of any democratic nation.


  • #116
    KomradeBishop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,981 ✭✭✭KomradeBishop


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    How so ? The people were combatants in a combat zone not in Wales.
    The UK is not at war. They have no legitimate definition for a 'combat zone' that reneges citizens right to due process, outside of declaring war.


  • #117
    colossus-x
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,202 ✭✭✭colossus-x


    KomradeBishop wrote: »
    To kill their own citizens? I think you'd need to show some past precedent for that. That's not just an ECHR violation, that's an extremely serious violation of the rights of citizens, of their own country - that is really dangerous to the democratic integrity of the UK.

    ^^ Yeah I'd say killing a citizen is a serious breech of said citizens human rights alright. I wonder what he's gonna do about it?


  • #118
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,461 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    KomradeBishop wrote: »
    You just tried to sidestep my point. Government officials lie - it has been proven as such in the past - and a mere 'claim' that this execution-without-due-process is all above board, is worth fúck all. This is too serious to take any government officials word on it - due process is one of the most important principals of any democratic nation.

    They consulted the law officers did they not ?


  • #119
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,461 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    KomradeBishop wrote: »
    The UK is not at war. They have no legitimate definition for a 'combat zone' that reneges citizens right to due process, outside of declaring war.

    Tell you what. Why does one not head over to ISIS land and tell them how concerned one is about it's members being killed illegality let us know how one gets on.


  • #120
    KomradeBishop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,981 ✭✭✭KomradeBishop


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    They consulted the law officers did they not ?
    You're trying to sidestep my point again. Legal officials lie - this has been used to justify illegal wars in the past.


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  • #121
    Eugene Norman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,191 ✭✭✭Eugene Norman


    KomradeBishop wrote: »
    To kill their own citizens? I think you'd need to show some past precedent for that. That's not just an ECHR violation, that's an extremely serious violation of the rights of citizens, of their own country - that is really dangerous to the democratic integrity of the UK.

    Ah now.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Flavius

    Although in that case the European court said it wasn't fore-planned but I think that was a cop out.

    I'm pretty certain, as are many in Ireland, that British agents facilitated bombings in the Republic. Which isn't their citizens of course.

    What's unique here is there is no denying it was deliberate and authorised by the PM.

    But they've been engaged in extra judicial killing for years.


This discussion has been closed.
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