Ultra Discussion Thread

PaulieC · 02-09-2015 8:51pm

Ron Gomall wrote: »

Am a newbie to ultra running, got 2 x 50kms done & want to run further. All training & nutrition info welcome. I came across this training blog of a runner trying to break some Irish records - may be interesting as the weeks/ months pass
Here's the link https://therunningmaster.wordpress.com, I don't know if he's on here as well.
Any good training plans for a first attempt at 50miles/80km ?

The running master? Isn't that the d******d that used to post here and caused all the trouble ? I'd steer well clear of that one OP. There are enough very experienced ultra runners here already who cloud steer you in the right direction. Plan wise, have a look at Bryon Powell's book, Relentless Forward Progress, it has a number of very detailed plans.

Ron Gomall · 03-09-2015 12:11am

Enduro - I thought that was you in "Running Master's" blog until he posted a long comment saying that it wasn't you...
I checked out Barry Murray and will attend one of the workshops in Glendalough. Race is Vartry 50mile/80km next April, did the 50km this year so its the next step up before attempting 100k or maybe WW 127Kms then eventually try 100 miles if I can stay injury free.

Paulie - I never heard of "Running Master" before this blog so Idk about his posts here but thanks for the heads up. Relentless Forward Progress - I'll pick up on Amazon - cheers

Enduro · 03-09-2015 10:00am

ultraman1 wrote: »

http://ultra168.com/2015/09/02/whats-with-the-utmb-dnf/

Just added to that!

Enduro · 03-09-2015 10:22am

Ron Gomall wrote: »

I checked out Barry Murray and will attend one of the workshops in Glendalough. Race is Vartry 50mile/80km next April, did the 50km this year so its the next step up before attempting 100k or maybe WW 127Kms then eventually try 100 miles if I can stay injury free.

You should get a huge amount out of one of those workshops. Nice one.

Don't worry about stepping through distances. If you want to race 160km then just go straight at 160km. It's like running a marathon... training for and racing 100 meter races, and then working up through the distances bit by bit isn't necessarily going to do you any good for the marathon itself... you'd be better off specifically targetting and training for the marathon from the start if your aim is to race a marathon. Same with ultras! IMHO the ability to race 160km, or even 24 hours, is very different to racing even 100km (Crosses a line between what I refer to as speed ultras versus endurance ultras).

Also, since you mentioned injury as a consideration, I find I'm more likely to get injury issues in shorter races (all relative here... 80km is short for me) than longer races due to the relative intensity of the required pace. Same with the training. There have been one or two observational studies done on post-ultra injury rates which support this conjecture.

As I impled in a post above, there is no correct or established training plan for races of these distances. Even at world championship level its always interesting to hear the huge variety in approaches to training that different athletes take. But a few random general points:

Back to back LSRs particularly suit ultra training
There are no shortcuts - time and effort has to be invested
Learn how to judge and manage your own pace
Speedwork etc still has a useful role to play
be very careful not to overtrain, or stick too ridgedly to a plan. Know the difference between pushing yourself and damaging yourself
Don't let the training become a chore. Mix things up a bit.

PaulieC · 03-09-2015 10:26am

Ron Gomall wrote: »

Paulie - I never heard of "Running Master" before this blog so Idk about his posts here but thanks for the heads up. Relentless Forward Progress - I'll pick up on Amazon - cheers

I have a copy that I won't be using any time soon if you want to borrow it...

Ososlo · 03-09-2015 11:02am

PaulieC wrote: »

The running master? Isn't that the d******d that used to post here and caused all the trouble ? I'd steer well clear of that one OP. s.

Your opinion and kit's and some others no doubt. However others like me and the many other Boardsies he coaches see him as an extremely knowledgeable mentor who cannot do enough to help and offer advice to people of all levels. Not dragging up history again op but there were many players in that saga so don't take the above at face value.
Now back to my holidays...

ultrapercy · 03-09-2015 11:52am

Ososlo wrote: »

Your opinion and kit's and some others no doubt. However others like me and the many other Boardsies he coaches see him as an extremely knowledgeable mentor who cannot do enough to help and offer advice to people of all levels. Not dragging up history again op but there were many players in that saga so don't take the above at face value.
Now back to my holidays...

As a neutral in the whole daft saga I must say he portrayed himself in a very bad light, that's to put it as mildly as I possibly can. At the end of it allI just assumed he was mentally ill and I'm not convinced he's not now. He might be a great lad entirely but as someone who witnessed all the muck he hawked around here I'd take a bit of convincing. There is no way in hell I would advise someone to trust him as a coach unless they knew him well personally.

kit3 · 03-09-2015 11:54am

Ososlo wrote: »

Your opinion and kit's and some others no doubt. However others like me and the many other Boardsies he coaches see him as an extremely knowledgeable mentor who cannot do enough to help and offer advice to people of all levels. Not dragging up history again op but there were many players in that saga so don't take the above at face value.
Now back to my holidays...

??? I deliberately didn't venture an opinion here so I don't know why I'm being referenced ! OP - you can make up your own mind on this quite easily. The 'Running Master' had a training log on here. I'm sure you'll find it on a search. I can't link on the phone or maybe someone else can provide a link.

tunguska · 03-09-2015 12:34pm

ultrapercy wrote: »

As a neutral in the whole daft saga I must say he portrayed himself in a very bad light, that's to put it as mildly as I possibly can. At the end of it allI just assumed he was mentally ill and I'm not convinced he's not now. He might be a great lad entirely but as someone who witnessed all the muck he hawked around here I'd take a bit of convincing. There is no way in hell I would advise someone to trust him as a coach unless they knew him well personally.

I'd agree with that. All hostilities aside, it seemed to me at the time that he wasnt connected to reality and judging by the blog post, it looks like thats still the case. Theres definitley some mental issues there.

DogSlySmile · 03-09-2015 12:47pm

tunguska wrote: »

I'd agree with that. All hostilities aside, it seemed to me at the time that he wasnt connected to reality and judging by the blog post, it looks like thats still the case. Theres definitley some mental issues there.

Ah lads, we cant go around saying people have a mental illness based on the things they say on the internet. If we judged everyone like that then half my friends would be considered to have Narcissistic Personality Disorder because of all the selfies they post of themselves day after day.

ultrapercy · 03-09-2015 1:23pm

DogSlySmile wrote: »

Ah lads, we cant go around saying people have a mental illness based on the things they say on the internet. If we judged everyone like that then half my friends would be considered to have Narcissistic Personality Disorder because of all the selfies they post of themselves day after day.

Your point being ???☺

dublin runner · 03-09-2015 1:39pm

I'm not too sure how this person is of any relevance. He doesn't race, doesn't talk any sense and to the best of my knowledge, doesn't train anyone of note. That's no disrespect to anyone he coaches. That's just the facts of the matter.

belcarra · 03-09-2015 2:29pm

The thread was going well with Enduro imparting his valuable advice.
Can we return to that sort of chat and leave you know who out of all this? The forum has wasted far too much time already on that.

Any upcoming races Enduro?
UP - Do you have any plans to return to Ultra or are you focused on Marathon for the foreseeable future?
UM1 - Happy with progress towards Sparta?

kit3 · 03-09-2015 2:33pm

belcarra wrote: »

The thread was going well with Enduro imparting his valuable advice.
Can we return to that sort of chat and leave you know who out of all this? The forum has wasted far too much time already on that.

Any upcoming races Enduro?
UP - Do you have any plans to return to Ultra or are you focused on Marathon for the foreseeable future?
UM1 - Happy with progress towards Sparta?

+1 back to talking about things that are relevant - although the OP did just ask an innocent question - don't think he realised the can of worms he was opening.

Don't let it put you off Ron Gomall !

Ron Gomall · 03-09-2015 2:53pm

kit3 wrote: »

??? I deliberately didn't venture an opinion here so I don't know why I'm being referenced ! OP - you can make up your own mind on this quite easily. The 'Running Master' had a training log on here. I'm sure you'll find it on a search. I can't link on the phone or maybe someone else can provide a link.

Thanks Kit, wow - from all the comments here, he certainly seems to have been controversial/ divisive. I'm just looking for good advice & am delighted to get some PMs offering me help. I will set up a training log as soon as I can get back training (got a torn posterial tibial tendon and doing physio at the moment), hopefully October and want a recovery plan then rebuild/ specific plan.
cheers Enduro on the specifity advice & the marathon analogy , just 100miles seems so daunting at the moment. 100k is double my longest race so far, so bite size chunk might be 100k then 100mile & skip the 50miler...
Ososlo - thanks for the views expressed, will have a read of the old training logs archived here.

davedanon · 03-09-2015 3:06pm

kit3 wrote: »

Don't let it put you off Ron Gomall !

Ah, the critical importance of punctuation. This sentence really needs a comma.

Although, to be frank, I went off Ron ages go.

kit3 · 03-09-2015 3:11pm

davedanon wrote: »

Ah, the critical importance of punctuation. This sentence really needs a comma.

Although, to be frank, I went off Ron ages go.

Smart arse

Enduro · 03-09-2015 3:35pm

Ron Gomall wrote: »

cheers Enduro on the specifity advice & the marathon analogy , just 100miles seems so daunting at the moment. 100k is double my longest race so far, so bite size chunk might be 100k then 100mile & skip the 50miler...

100 miles will still seem daunting... until you do it, then it won't be! The main thing is to do what you want to do. There's races out there that there is no real logical way to prepare for, or that you could take half a lifetime to get to a point where you logically think your ready. The trick is to bypass that and just go for it.

The biggest and most useful preparation for running any ultra distance is experience of that distance (IMHO). So if I was in your position one approach I might take would be to enter a 100 mile race and treat is a pure learning experience. Your 2nd 100 miler then becomes your first proper 100 mile race, building on all you will have learned from the 1st.

belcarra wrote: »

Any upcoming races Enduro?

Thanks for asking! Speaking of races you'd spend half a lifetime logically preparing for, next up in under two weeks (And probably my last race of the year) is the Tor De Geants. I don't know of any running race with more climb and descent! I did this for the first time last year and I couldn't believe how good it was. The best running race I've ever taken part in. Everyone knows how good the UTMB is, but this race blows it out of the water!

4 Irish are taking part this year. It'll be very interesting to see what Dan Doherty will do. He came 6th last year, which was an awesome result by any standards, but particularly for someone who isn't from an alpine country making his debut multi -day race! I'll be happy to get anywhere near my time from last year (about 92 hours I think).

kit3 · 03-09-2015 3:39pm

Best of luck in that Enduro

Notwork Error · 03-09-2015 4:06pm

davedanon wrote: »

Ah, the critical importance of punctuation. This sentence really needs a comma.

Although, to be frank, I went off Ron ages go.

Ah, come on. If you're going all grammar Nazi, get it right yourself:rolleyes:.

davedanon · 03-09-2015 4:33pm

Notwork Error wrote: »

Ah, come on. If you're going all grammar Nazi, get it right yourself:rolleyes:.

Gah. Let me just climb up on this petard here.

ultraman1 · 03-09-2015 4:52pm

belcarra wrote: »

UM1 - Happy with progress towards Sparta?

Cherrs bc...happy enuf with training,felt decent enuf on sat in achill and prob last long run tonite(though make try stick in another sneaki one)planned with the other 2 boyos

Wild Garlic · 03-09-2015 11:04pm

Enduro wrote: »

If you really want to learn then best to learn from a qualified expert... worth getting some consultation from the likes of Barry Murray at Optimimum nutrition 4 sport.

As for training plans... there are probably as many ultra training plans as there are ultra runners. Which 80K race are you targetting?

+1 on Barry Murray, top man knows, his stuff.

DogSlySmile · 05-09-2015 12:55pm

Wild Garlic wrote: »

+1 on Barry Murray, top man knows, his stuff.

Knows how to run a bit too. He just won the Kerry way ultra.

DogSlySmile · 06-09-2015 3:45pm

Alex oneill is attempting to break the malin to mizen record. He started running this morning for his record attempt.

You can track him here - http://www.gtctrack.com/Track and on ChallengeAlex on Facebook

Current record is 3 days 15 hours and 36 minutes set by Mimi Anderson in 2012.

TFBubendorfer · 06-09-2015 7:07pm

DogSlySmile wrote: »

Alex oneill is attempting to break the malin to mizen record. He started running this morning for his record attempt.

You can track him here - http://www.gtctrack.com/Track and on ChallengeAlex on Facebook

Current record is 3 days 15 hours and 36 minutes set by Mimi Anderson in 2012.

Except his name is Alex O'Shea!

Nice guy and a pretty damn good runner. He won the Tralee 100k in under 8 hours last month.

ultraman1 · 07-09-2015 9:05am

DogSlySmile wrote: »

Alex oneill is attempting to break the malin to mizen record. He started running this morning for his record attempt.

You can track him here - http://www.gtctrack.com/Track and on ChallengeAlex on Facebook

Current record is 3 days 15 hours and 36 minutes set by Mimi Anderson in 2012.

Over due to injury

DogSlySmile · 07-09-2015 9:38am

ultraman1 wrote: »

Over due to injury

thats a shame. hope the injury isnt too bad and he's back to have another crack at it.

its a challenge I have one eye on myself (not the record of course, just covering the distance) so was looking forward to seeing how he got on.

Enduro · 11-09-2015 4:15pm

Flying out bright and early tomorrow for the Tor De Geants. Both Dan Doherty and myself are listed in the first ten of the number allocations and will be getting to go to the "Elite" runner number presentation ceremony. Not bad going to have 2 Irish lads at that level in possibly the toughest of the alpine ultras! All we have to do now is run the race

3 other Irish runners taking part: IMRA's glorious predident Richard Nunan, Gary Kiernan who had to be helicoptered off last year (listed as British, but a Galwegian in reality), and most significantly of all my wonderful wife. Best of luck to all of them!

No trackers for this one, but we do get checked in and out of the multiple aid stations, so there will be plenty of updates over the course of the race. 160 hour time limit!

kit3 · 11-09-2015 4:24pm

Enduro wrote: »

Flying out bright and early tomorrow for the Tor De Geants. Both Dan Doherty and myself are listed in the first ten of the number allocations and will be getting to go to the "Elite" runner number presentation ceremony. Not bad going to have 2 Irish lads at that level in possibly the toughest of the alpine ultras! All we have to do now is run the race

3 other Irish runners taking part: IMRA's glorious predident Richard Nunan, Gary Kiernan who had to be helicoptered off last year (listed as British, but a Galwegian in reality), and most significantly of all my wonderful wife. Best of luck to all of them!

No trackers for this one, but we do get checked in and out of the multiple aid stations, so there will be plenty of updates over the course of the race. 160 hour time limit!

Good luck

career move · 11-09-2015 4:26pm

Good stuff Enduro. Hope ye all have a great race

Djoucer · 11-09-2015 4:30pm

Best of luck! Should be epic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnV_tdqOGsw

chickey2 · 11-09-2015 5:53pm

Best of luck!

jimcricket · 11-09-2015 10:40pm

Soo the best of luck. Please put up a race report, id love to read it

ger664 · 12-09-2015 10:52am

Keith Wythe is running in the 100K today.

Live Tracker

tang1 · 12-09-2015 10:56am

ger664 wrote: »

Keith Wythe is running in the 100K today.

Live Tracker

Maurice Looby in it to.

ultraman1 · 12-09-2015 2:00pm

tang1 wrote: »

Maurice Looby in it to.

Keith 4:21 for 60k
Looby 4:10 for 50km

ultraman1 · 12-09-2015 4:29pm

ultraman1 wrote: »

Keith 4:21 for 60k
Looby 4:10 for 50km

Keith on last lap..expected 7:30+
Looby on 4 8:30+

Djoucer · 14-09-2015 11:40am

Dan Doherty is currently 4th in Tor Des Gaents. Looks to be about an hour off first place.

Enduro is 8th about 3 hours off first.

Leader is at the 148km point.

About another 200km to go!

Djoucer · 15-09-2015 10:40am

Doherty has moved into second place, about 90 mins off first. 222km done.

Enduro is in 9th

mdlb · 15-09-2015 4:27pm

Doherty Retired according to tracker???

Djoucer · 15-09-2015 5:27pm

Yeah he's out.

Looks to be a problem with his knee.

https://twitter.com/aostasera/status/643815081252401153

Ron Gomall · 15-09-2015 9:50pm

Djoucer wrote: »

Yeah he's out.

Looks to be a problem with his knee.

https://twitter.com/aostasera/status/643815081252401153

Hard luck Dan, gave it a good rattle getting to 2nd place, any news on Enduro, Richard & Mrs Enduro (not sure of her boards name !)

ultraman1 · 16-09-2015 8:32am

Enduro bout 50 miles left
Tracker below stik in name and all the details cum up

http://live.tordesgeants.it/#/runner/15

ultraman1 · 16-09-2015 8:36am

http://live.tordesgeants.it/#/runner/15

DogSlySmile · 17-09-2015 8:10am

Tor des Geants cancelled mid-race due to bad weather with Enduro in 29th place. The top 6 runners had already finished.

belcarra · 17-09-2015 10:39am

DogSlySmile wrote: »

Tor des Geants cancelled mid-race due to bad weather with Enduro in 29th place. The top 6 runners had already finished.

Pity it wasn't cancelled before Dan had to drop out!:cool:

Djoucer · 17-09-2015 10:45am

Looks to have been pretty bad conditions from the start.

Apparently they were stopped before the last climb 'after going through hell and back.'

Check out one of the descents.

https://www.facebook.com/www.technosmedica.it/videos/vb.1454468074765829/1649636348582333/?type=2&theater

Djoucer · 17-09-2015 10:50am

Conditions looked pretty wintery.

Video here of the last day and winners finishing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGN7nUFGhD8

_Tombstone_ · 17-09-2015 11:14pm

Look at that snowy sh1tty path, stupid unsafe event...you'd try and make up a bit of time there and crack your head open.

REBORN,
ON THE RUN

Ultra Discussion Thread

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