The Irish language is failing.

psinno wrote: »

Given that Raidio na Gaeltachta don't even have enough audience to show up in radio audience figures I don't think there is much of an argument for creating another radio station to cater for a subsection of their audience. You could of course but then you could create a radio station for Irish speaking toddlers too.

Not true, its not that they don't have enough listeners to show up, they just don't participate with that service.

pone2012 wrote: »

Sorry if you dont like it, you're more than welcome to argue this point with me

Well, if you take the critics argument at face value, Irish is a veritable goldmine for its speakers, there's a gravy train out there if you just know your cúpla focal, don't you know.

Shep_Dog wrote: »

What percentage of the music would be in the Irish language?

I haven't the foggiest idea.

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Why do you bother repeating this unless you actually believe it's true?

I'm pointing out an inconsistency in the critics argument, either the language is useless to its speakers or its a fantastic source of income for them, it can't really be both.

Dan_Solo wrote: »

So if we take flintknapping again, if everybody was forced to learn this skill for pretty much no reason whatsoever, your attitude would be that we should all practise this skill every day instead of just canning it at school?

The point is that your not comparing like with like. You might consider both to be equally useless, but obviously that is a minority view as Irish is something that tens of thousands of people speak every day and is the subject of not insignificant state support, but flintknapping is not.

Gael Mire wrote: »

The point is that your not comparing like with like. You might consider both to be equally useless, but obviously that is a minority view as Irish is something that tens of thousands of people speak every day and is the subject of not insignificant state support, but flintknapping is not.

Does the usefulness of the Irish language hinge on the amount of subsidy it receives from the state?

psinno wrote: »

Does the usefulness of the Irish language hinge on the amount of subsidy it receives from the state?

No, ultimately it hinges on the number of people who speak it and/or support its continued use as part of our society. This manifests itself in individuals and communities speaking it, community groups and private businesses operating through Irish. Relationships and friendships being formed through the language. Children being raised through Irish and so on.
It also impacts public support for official status and the language rights of Irish citizens and state services that go along with that. All of this can then generate employment and economic opportunities for its speakers and in the communities where it is spoken.

State services, the education system etc are important aspects of this, much like they are in the economic life of the English speaking part of the country.

osarusan wrote: »

That's completely circular.

Pay loads of money to keep people speaking it - as a result of paying this money, there are plenty of people speaking it - because there are plenty of people speaking it, it is important to keep paying the money.

Of course there is a circular element to it, much of society works that way.

The same is true of English speaking Ireland, but on a larger scale. The majority of society is English speaking, therefore the vast majority of government expenditure goes on business conducted through English and in supporting English language institutions, Education, Media etc. This reinforces the status and use of English in society which in turn reinforces the use of English in government and the language in which the institutions of the state operate.

Its a simplification, but you can see the connection between the use of language in society and in Government as a kind of feedback loop. In many countries where there is only one language, like Germany for example, its a simple matter, both state and people operate in one language, simple as.
In countries where two or more languages exist it is more complicated and the state will have a linguistic policy which can range from official bilingualism/multilingualism to one of suppression and assimilation of one language group by the other.
In these situations, the linguistic policy of the state can be quite contentious. The state can influence the language used in society by choosing to increase or decrease the status and use of those languages by the state.

In Ireland, the language shift from English to Irish was largely driven by a very clear language policy by the British state to increase the status and usage of English and suppress the status and usage of Irish. This had both a linguistic and economic impact on the speakers of Irish. The administration became English speaking, the professions became English speaking, the institutions of education operated through English. English gained a higher status and became a more economically useful language as a result of this state policy and over time, many parts of society became English speaking as a result.

Irish speakers from the start of the revival movement back when the British state was still in power over the whole Island sought to overturn this linguistic policy. And when the Irish state was set up, aimed to put it into reverse. They failed, and in the 60's the state revised its language policy to one of official bilingualism (ie not aiming to have one language group assimilate the other) but while the symbolism was one of maintaining the status of Irish, under the surface there was much continuation from the old British policy of English assimilating Irish. And there are still remenants of this policy today. Irish speakers are still trying to overturn some aspects of the assimilation policy that never really changed since the British were in power.

In the North, some of the penal laws restricting the use of Irish are still in effect even.

psinno wrote: »

Germany has officially recognised minority languages but I gather not a lot of Sorbs speak Sorbian any more.

Yeah, I know, I was simplifying because its a country that does not have a bilingual policy at a national level or any language group that could be seen as a second language at a national level. In reality almost any country you care to mention will have some indigenous minority language group.

Dan_Solo wrote: »

I also doubt they have compulsory national teaching of any of their minority languages or billions worth of freebies for those who happen to speak them.

Freebies? Where?

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Oh, apologies, this must be news to you

I see a website, where are the freebies? You promised freebies!!

Also the department of Arts, Herritage and the Gaeltacht does not have billions of euros to spend on anything, and of the money that it has, only a minority goes on Irish, it spends most of its money on the first two parts of its name.)

Dan_Solo wrote: »

I see you're backtracking nicely on the existence of freebies and gone to haggle over how big they are. Predictable I guess.
Between the Gaeltacht and Irish teacher spending there's millions per year. Billions definitely over time, if not per year.

No i'm not, where are they, so far you have shown me the website of a government department, where are the 'freebies'? Since when is a teacher a 'freebie'? As for the Gaeltacht, again where are the freebies? Show me billions of euros worth of freebies that the Gaeltacht gets that the rest of the country does not have access to. Of course there are no billions in reality, these are just lies that people like you tell.