The Irish language is failing.

Dughorm

Shep_Dog wrote: »

It is wrong too, for their English surnames to be transformed into bogus Irish surnames and for their English-speaking heritage to be denigrated by Irish teachers.

I've seen this happen actually in a school setting! But are they trying to be inclusive perhaps?

Shep_Dog wrote: »

It is also wrong to beat children for failing to speak Irish.

This statement is completely ridiculous... are you suggesting this happens today?

Dughorm

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Strong post. Totally agree - a savage defeat lurks in the not too distant future, a defeat of selfish ignorance.

This is an interesting article actually - it's about use of the Irish language by Gaeltacht businesses.

It contains a revealing quote which would certainly contribute to The Corithian's theory of grant-grabbing "Gaelgores":

"I think if I’m being honest it had a lot to do with the fact that we could get funding. It would be nice to be able to say we were doing it because we want
to use Irish but it was mainly to do with the funding… "

http://www.udaras.ie/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Utilising-a-Minority-Language-to-Develop-Brand-Identity.pdf

The article also says that the stated government policy is to create a bilingual society by 2026.... (doesn't say what languages though;))

ancapailldorcha

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

Still, some of it must have sunk in, given your choice of username!

Some of it sank in.

I've no issue with the language itself. It's the fact that the syllabus is obviously broken. We've had nearly a century now to regain fluency and have failed miserably.

feargale

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

You're making absolutely no sense at all.

I had to learn English as it's the national language and Irish in vain because... well... there really isn't a single good reason.

So you had English shoved down your throat, the same as Gaeltacht kids have Irish shoved down their throat by their Irish-speaking parents.

feargale

Dan_Solo wrote: »

I won't dignify this by asking the questions I am now about to ask...

You will be a great consolation to the short pants brigade.

Dan_Solo

feargale wrote: »

You will be a great consolation to the short pants brigade.

Has this been through Google translate a few times? Is it meant to mean something?

feargale

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Has this been through Google translate a few times? Is it meant to mean something?

Yes. Go figure.

Shep_Dog

Dughorm wrote: »

I've seen this happen actually in a school setting! But are they trying to be inclusive perhaps?

Nonsense. It's an attempt to edit a child's cultural identity and make them ashamed of who they are. A name is one of the most personal posessions one can have. It should not be interfered with. It's interesting though, that the ethnic abusers justify this abuse as being 'inclusion' that's a classic example of a cognitive distortion.

Dughorm wrote: »

This statement is completely ridiculous... are you suggesting this happens today?

There is nothing funny about beating children. This was done in the past, in the name of Irish. Maybe now you can understand why Irish is failing. Hearing Irish just brings back unhappy memories for the majority of the population. That's why most people do not want to listen to it or speak it.

ancapailldorcha

feargale wrote: »

So you had English shoved down your throat, the same as Gaeltacht kids have Irish shoved down their throat by their Irish-speaking parents.

You're, unsurprisingly not comparing like with like. English is one of the most widely spoken languages in the world and is Ireland's national language. Given the fact that almost all of the media in Ireland is through the medium of language and that almost everyone speaks it, I wouldn't say it's being shoved down their throats either. Irish on the other hand is barely spoken in Ireland.

Carlos Orange

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Given the fact that almost all of the media in Ireland is through the medium of language and that almost everyone speaks it, I wouldn't say it's being shoved down their throats either. Irish on the other hand is barely spoken in Ireland.

On a previous thread about why (pretty much) nobody speaks Irish people were blaming teachers and the way it is thought. Nobody would ever blame teachers for somebody born and raised in Ireland not being able to speak English. English teachers aren't order of magnitude better teachers than Irish teachers. They just get to teach something that is a real working language for pretty much everyone they teach.

LordSutch

True or False?

Is it true that all Primary school children in Ireland have their Christian name translated into Irish, to be used in school? Or has that practice ceased in recent years?

It certainly happened in my day, but maybe with today's multicultural population they can't translate non Gaelic/Anglo names into Irish?

Anyone know . . . . .

ancapailldorcha

LordSutch wrote: »

Is it true that all Primary school children in Ireland have their Christian name translated into Irish, to be used in school? Or has that practice ceased in recent years?

It certainly happened in my day, but maybe with today's multicultural population they can't translate non Gaelic/Anglo names into Irish?

Anyone know . . . . .

I've never heard of this at all.

osarusan

LordSutch wrote: »

True or False?

Is it true that all Primary school children in Ireland have their Christian name translated into Irish, to be used in school? Or has that practice ceased in recent years?

It certainly happened in my day, but maybe with today's multicultural population they can't translate non Gaelic/Anglo names into Irish?

Anyone know . . . . .

My Irish teacher used to use the Irish version of my name, but I don't think the practice was any more official/widespread than that.

inocybe

LordSutch wrote: »

True or False?

Is it true that all Primary school children in Ireland have their Christian name translated into Irish, to be used in school? Or has that practice ceased in recent years?

It certainly happened in my day, but maybe with today's multicultural population they can't translate non Gaelic/Anglo names into Irish?

Anyone know . . . . .

It's a while ago, but my foreign surname was changed to the Irish translation of the closest English interpretation.

feargale

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

You're, unsurprisingly not comparing like with like. English is one of the most widely spoken languages in the world and is Ireland's national language. Given the fact that almost all of the media in Ireland is through the medium of language and that almost everyone speaks it, I wouldn't say it's being shoved down their throats either. Irish on the other hand is barely spoken in Ireland.

We could argue till Christmas about what's like what. The kernel of your case appears to be that Irish-speaking parents shouldn't impart Irish to their children, even if they themselves were raised in that language and are more comfortable in it. But why don't you just say that instead of gratuitously insulting those decent people with a mean reference to shoving their own language down their own children's throats?

Iwasfrozen

osarusan wrote: »

My Irish teacher used to use the Irish version of my name, but I don't think the practice was any more official/widespread than that.

My teacher did in primary school and wouldn't stop when I asked her to. Only when I had my parents contact the school did she back off.

Thankfully my voice was a bit more forceful in secondary school when I had to confront the issue again.

ancapailldorcha

feargale wrote: »

We could argue till Christmas about what's like what. The kernel of your case appears to be that Irish-speaking parents shouldn't impart Irish to their children, even if they themselves were raised in that language and are more comfortable in it. But why don't you just say that instead of gratuitously insulting those decent people with a mean reference to shoving their own language down their own children's throats?

As long as they're not frittering away taxpayers' resources they can do whatever they want in their own homes to be honest.

Dan_Solo

I can confirm that Gaelscoils will "translate" any and every name from any part of the globe into Irish, even if it's adding a fada which makes the name sound completely different.

lawlolawl

Dan_Solo wrote: »

I can confirm that Gaelscoils will "translate" any and every name from any part of the globe into Irish, even if it's adding a fada which makes the name sound completely different.

Flailing to to relevant.

Please allow me to translate things to any number of pretend Dungeons & Dragons languages.

Laughable stuff from proponents of a language that is an utter corpse.

Anyone who is pro-Irish language should be embarrassed with themselves for wasting time and resources on dead garbage. The world grew up and you are still clinging to utter nonsense to prove how "Oirish" you are.

Grow up.

ancapailldorcha

Dan_Solo wrote: »

I can confirm that Gaelscoils will "translate" any and every name from any part of the globe into Irish, even if it's adding a fada which makes the name sound completely different.

You forgot about jamming a "h" in after the first letter.

AnLonDubh

Shep_Dog wrote: »

Nonsense. It's an attempt to edit a child's cultural identity and make them ashamed of who they are. A name is one of the most personal posessions one can have. It should not be interfered with.

Although I think translating names into Irish is a silly when it's not an Irish name, this position is a bit extreme. When I began to learn Chinese I was immediately given a Chinese name, by which I am still known by my Chinese friends. This is not a Chinese pronunciation of my name, but a completely different name. I know the same was done in Chinese classes my teacher gave to secondary schools and I don't think the children were mentally scarred.

AnLonDubh

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

You forgot about jamming a "h" in after the first letter.

The "adding a nonsense fada" business does occur, but I doubt adding a h after the first letter is common as it would be grammatically nonsensical.

ancapailldorcha

AnLonDubh wrote: »

The "adding a nonsense fada" business does occur, but I doubt adding a h after the first letter is common as it would be grammatically nonsensical.

I remember my Irish teacher saying that that was a popular way to "Gaelicise" a word. There are also the classics where the last letter is repeated like carr.

AnLonDubh

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I remember my Irish teacher saying that that was a popular way to "Gaelicise" a word. There are also the classics where the last letter is repeated like carr.

Your teacher must have been a fool or had a very poor command of the language, no offense, it would be like saying adding 's is a good way to Anglicize a name, I've never seen it done.

ancapailldorcha

AnLonDubh wrote: »

Your teacher must have been a fool or had a very poor command of the language, no offense, it would be like saying adding 's is a good way to Anglicize a name, I've never seen it done.

She was quite good. Rather than trying to push the absurd syllabus onto us, she just had us learn off passages for the exam. It worked quite well.

AnLonDubh

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

She was quite good. Rather than trying to push the absurd syllabus onto us, she just had us learn off passages for the exam. It worked quite well.

No doubt it did, but adding "h" to the first letter is not and never was a common way to Gaelicise a name, it makes no grammatical sense.

ancapailldorcha

AnLonDubh wrote: »

No doubt it did, but adding "h" to the first letter is not and never was a common way to Gaelicise a name, it makes no grammatical sense.

No, you add the "h" after the first letter. Anyway, most of the language made little grammatical sense to me at the time.

AnLonDubh

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

No, you add the "h" after the first letter.

I know what you mean, it makes no sense as it turns the name into its possessive form, like adding 's in English. You mean like Sarah => Sharah.

There are also the classics where the last letter is repeated like carr.

Carr is actually from Proto-Celtic, not taken from English. It's attested in Gaulish as carros

ancapailldorcha

AnLonDubh wrote: »

I know what you mean, it makes no sense as it turns the name into its possessive form, like adding 's in English. You mean like Sarah => Sharah.


Carr is actually from Proto-Celtic, not taken from English. It's attested in Gaulish as carros

Fair enough.

AnLonDubh

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Fair enough.

That said, your general point is valid, there are a lot of nonsense made-up words used in official/school Irish that are simply lifted from English.