Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread IV

RobbieRuns · 02-09-2015 11:10AM

Kieran Marmion was sent back from camp to play for Connacht as Joe said that he needed game time, had a stormer, scored two tries...... did not do him much good !

Buer · 02-09-2015 11:14AM

Marmion was never in the mix, from what I can see. Even in Schmidt's comments, you get the impression KM was an afterthought. He spoke a bit about Boss and his performance against Scotland (went well, couple of bad passes, try wouldn't have been scored without him, brings a physicality to the team) and then mentioned Marmion in one sentence just while on the topic (went well against Munster) and not again.

I reckon the plan was to give KM a few minutes in the opening game as a token and then that was it, sending him back to Connacht periodically to allow him prepare for the season with them while keeping him on the periphery of the Irish squad in the event of injury as he plays a specialist position.

connachta · 02-09-2015 01:30PM

total former wrote: »

I'm so confused. The "mickey mouse" quote referred to the provinces' warm-up games.

Trimble came through 80 minutes in the Ulster game (and scored a try) and it didn't change the coach's mind.

On the other hand, Joe said that Cave's performance against Wales and his contribution in training is what won him the place in the squad. Just like Donnacha Ryan sealed his spot based entirely on the first Wales game. So performances for Ireland and in Ireland camp counted, performances for provinces seemed to count for very little.

I don't understand what point you're trying to make.

The games are much less important in determining the make up of the squad than you seem to be suggesting.
[...]
the squad is going to be selected primarily based on what they've been doing at Carton House, not what they've been doing in mickey mouse warm up games.

What I underlined about this, was that this quote, for exemple, underestimated widely the importance of the international friendlies. Players like Cave Furlong, D.Kearney Earls for example, earned their place because of the Irish games and not only trainning. And whatever some said, it could have been the same for Marmion. Games even against 2nd strings mattered, that's all I pointed out

rrpc · 02-09-2015 01:40PM

connachta wrote: »

The issue is he couldn't proove his consistant performance, and Schmidt wanted it so "Mickey mouse" games mattered more than the quote above predicted

So now it's 'consistent' performance in matches :rolleyes:

So how do you explain guys who had one appearance so far in the warm ups getting on the squad?

Tadhg Furlong
Tommy Bowe
Rob Kearney
Darren Cave
Jared Payne

That's just off the top of my head. I could have also said Jonny Sexton but that would be taking the p1ss

Edit: I see you've just argued against yourself in the preceding post, I shouldn't have bothered

connachta · 02-09-2015 01:48PM

rrpc wrote: »

So now it's 'consistent' performance in matches :rolleyes:

So how do you explain guys who had one appearance so far in the warm ups getting on the squad?

Tadhg Furlong
Tommy Bowe
Rob Kearney
Darren Cave
Jared Payne

All of them had 30 minutes of gametime at least, hadn't they?

connachta · 02-09-2015 01:49PM

rrpc wrote: »

Edit: I see you've just argued against yourself in the preceding post, I shouldn't have bothered

How? Where?

aimee1 · 02-09-2015 01:55PM

connachta wrote: »

What I underlined about this, was that this quote, for exemple, underestimated widely the importance of the international friendlies. Players like Cave Furlong, D.Kearney Earls for example, earned their place because of the Irish games and not only trainning. And whatever some said, it could have been the same for Marmion. Games even against 2nd strings mattered, that's all I pointed out

Games against 2nd strings mattered for a few guys. There was probably 24 places nailed on before the wales game in cardiff and after scotland a few more places were decided [Ryan v Tuohy, Cave, Zebo]. Over the 3 games a few guys made contributions which JS was specifically looking for. They provided another indicator to the coaches who deliberated for 6 hours over at most 4-5 positions.

Im guessing Dave Kearneys first contribution against scotland in the build up to the zebo try would have made a statement to JS that DK can carry his training ground form into the test match arena. He also had a positive display against wales.

Cave, Ryan, Zebo, Fitz, Earls and Furlong probably likewise, for what JS wanted to see, and not want the random fan looks at. In the backs cases it sealed the fate of Jones, Trimble, McFadden not making the cut. The games in august only mattered in a small number of cases but not in how we think, but in how JS examines the performance in relation to training.

rrpc · 02-09-2015 01:59PM

connachta wrote: »

All of them had 30 minutes of gametime at least, hadn't they?

As had Trimble, what's your point? Or is consistency now measured by minutes instead of games?

connachta wrote: »

How? Where?

You used the instance of players with only one appearance making it because of that one appearance, not consistent appearances.

You are ignoring the fact that Trimble's main absence was not from warm up games where he was at worst twenty-five minutes shy of other players who made the squad but because of injury that severely reduced the amount of training time he had with the squad.

connachta · 02-09-2015 02:02PM

rrpc wrote: »

As had Trimble, what's your point? Or is consistency now measured by minutes instead of games?

You used the instance of players with only one appearance making it because of that one appearance, not consistent appearances.

You are ignoring the fact that Trimble's main absence was not from warm up games where he was at worst twenty-five minutes shy of other players who made the squad but because of injury that severely reduced the amount of training time he had with the squad.

consistency is measured by quality of the minutes played.
Schmidt could have taken the risk of bringing Moore if Furlong didn't played a really good 30-min shift

Zzippy · 02-09-2015 02:06PM

Buer wrote: »

Marmion was never in the mix, from what I can see. Even in Schmidt's comments, you get the impression KM was an afterthought. He spoke a bit about Boss and his performance against Scotland (went well, couple of bad passes, try wouldn't have been scored without him, brings a physicality to the team) and then mentioned Marmion in one sentence just while on the topic (went well against Munster) and not again.

I reckon the plan was to give KM a few minutes in the opening game as a token and then that was it, sending him back to Connacht periodically to allow him prepare for the season with them while keeping him on the periphery of the Irish squad in the event of injury as he plays a specialist position.

Quite a few players were never in the mix, but had to be involved as we need to plan for multiple injuries. The likes of Marmion, Kilcoyne, Tuohy were probably never serious candidates but could still play a role. I'm very glad Marmion was involved - 8 weeks training under JS/Kiss will have taught him a lot, he'll be in peak physical condition, and he'll be raring to go for Connacht hopefully. I would have been delighted for him if he'd made the squad, but very happy to have him on provincial duty for the next few weeks. I think he could make a big impact in a few Pro12 games...

total former · 02-09-2015 02:52PM

Zzippy wrote: »

The likes of Marmion, Kilcoyne, Tuohy were probably never serious candidates but could still play a role.

Tuohy was the biggest let-down for me out of all the squad. For a guy who has had decent exposure to the squad in the last two seasons and has looked like a good player, he just flopped miserably against Scotland and that seemed to be enough to make up Joe's mind, which probably tells you he wasn't killing it in training either.

pickarooney · 02-09-2015 02:59PM

Zzippy wrote: »

The likes of Marmion, Kilcoyne, Tuohy were probably never serious candidates

Kilcoyne was surely next in line if Healy wasn't declared fit. I wouldn't bet against him making an appearance at the World Cup yet.

With the versatility of most of our backs we look like a kind of conservative version of Australia.

errlloyd · 02-09-2015 03:04PM

There is really bizarre game theory in play. Trimble is so good that any slight knock to a winger and they're going home. Its an easy decision to call up Trimble - which is why I kinda think it was an easier decision to leave him at home.

02-09-2015 03:36PM

errlloyd wrote: »

There is really bizarre game theory in play. Trimble is so good that any slight knock to a winger and they're going home. Its an easy decision to call up Trimble - which is why I kinda think it was an easier decision to leave him at home.

He's like that guy that was so good at fashion they had to shoot him.

Noopti · 02-09-2015 04:31PM

Just saw on Twitter that Schmidt and Strauss became Irish Citizens today!

https://twitter.com/merrionstreet/status/639094359032508416

https://twitter.com/merrionstreet/status/639096677232721920

Sangre · 02-09-2015 04:39PM

Quick - someone update the wikipedia page!

Hopefully this automatically disqualifies him from the NZ top job now.

mfceiling · 02-09-2015 04:40PM

Noopti wrote: »

Just saw on Twitter that Schmidt and Strauss became Irish Citizens today!

https://twitter.com/merrionstreet/status/639094359032508416

https://twitter.com/merrionstreet/status/639096677232721920

Strauss couldn't be happier at this news...

02-09-2015 04:43PM

Plenty of administrative and time saving reasons for Joe to become an Irish citizen. But I'm going with he feels Irish and is committing his future until retirement to Ireland. Yup.

02-09-2015 04:44PM

mfceiling wrote: »

Strauss couldn't be happier at this news...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_JMvzfIqVg

b.gud · 02-09-2015 04:45PM

mfceiling wrote: »

Strauss couldn't be happier at this news...

Nah he's just 100% focused on the national Anthem. He's been taking lessons from POM to make sure he gets enough pashun when singing it

bilston · 02-09-2015 07:38PM

Any chance that some of the 8 not involved this weekend could be sent back to their provinces? For example assuming Sexton starts and Madigan benches it would seem a sensible move to release Jackson to Ulster.

RobbieRuns · 02-09-2015 08:36PM

I think Ulster could do with PJ, his mate Humphs is crocked by all accounts

awec · 02-09-2015 08:38PM

RobbieRuns wrote: »

I think Ulster could do with PJ, his mate Humphs is crocked by all accounts

Jackson and Bowe have both been back to train with Ulster.

total former · 03-09-2015 06:49AM

So apparently Healy won't be risked on Saturday.

This is less than ideal, to say the least. Hopefully it means we'll see Furlong tested at loosehead at some point.

Buer · 03-09-2015 08:09AM

Predicted team to be full strength which means Zebo gets the nod at 11 according to media which isn't a surprise. Earls and Fitz did nothing to further their case in that position, really, so it was a straight call between Zebo and DK at this point, I think. Thought they might to with Zebo at 23 due to his versatility and impact. I assume DK will get the nod this weekend for the 23 jersey given the injuries to Earls and Fitz but that might well change in a couple of weeks owing to the increased versatility of the others.

It also means McGrath to start again at loosehead with Furlong covering him which is going to be some baptism of fire. Your first senior appearance at loosehead is at Twickenham in a test match. Luckily, a prop covering a side of the scrum they're not entirely comfortable with has never gone badly for us there before....

They'll surely need to give him a bit of a run out to manage McGrath's game time as much as anything as he'll be only one of two players (Heaslip who is made mostly from recycled space shuttle parts, I believe) who will start 3 of the warm ups.

EDIT: Of course Mike Ross also.

Healy will need to potentially start both the Romania and Canada games if he's going to be in with a shout of starting against Italy. I can see him being used as an impact sub, however, with his first start potentially coming in the QF.

molloyjh · 03-09-2015 08:14AM

We're going to be asking a lot of McGrath....

Buer · 03-09-2015 08:29AM

molloyjh wrote: »

We're going to be asking a lot of McGrath....

Yup. He's going to be a tired boy but he'll also be absolutely match fit if they manage his game time. He only played 50 minutes in his first match and 60 in the second. If they match that tomorrow, I don't think it's unreasonable that he goes to England with about 160-170 minutes under his belt which is pretty solid for a prop.

They'll absolutely have to use either Furlong or Healy to start one of our pool openers though.

03-09-2015 08:33AM

Pretty nervous about Furlong at LH tbh

Buer · 03-09-2015 08:39AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Pretty nervous about Furlong at LH tbh

So is Furlong, I'd say.

Going from the dizzying heights of loosehead for Ireland Youths U18 to packing down against Dan Cole in Twickenham is a bit of a step up.

bilston · 03-09-2015 08:55AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Pretty nervous about Furlong at LH tbh

Yeah the boy is a talent but to be likely starting out of position at Twickenham is a huge task.

It could also be the making of him.

Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread IV

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