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Hi all, we have some important news to share. Please follow the link here to find out more!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058419143/important-news/p1?new=1

The Irish language is failing.

1…7374767879…94

Comments

  • #2252
    DanielODonnell
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 652 ✭✭✭DanielODonnell


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    What? All 55,000,000 of them?! That's quite the stereotype you've fabricated.

    All English adults are roughly the same, they all hide behind their patriotism to form one united British Nationalist identity which is protective against any wrong doing the English have done.


  • #2253
    Dughorm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 895 ✭✭✭Dughorm


    DanielODonnell wrote: »
    All English adults are roughly the same...

    No, they're not.


  • #2254
    DanielODonnell
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 652 ✭✭✭DanielODonnell


    Dughorm wrote: »
    No, they're not.

    yes sorry i meant to exclude the asian population and some of the irish catholic-english


  • #2255
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    DanielODonnell wrote: »
    All English adults are roughly the same, they all hide behind their patriotism to form one united British Nationalist identity which is protective against any wrong doing the English have done.
    Can't tell if serious...


  • #2256
    DanielODonnell
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 652 ✭✭✭DanielODonnell


    africans too


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  • #2257
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    feargale wrote: »
    What a silly, immature post.
    I wont dignify this by asking where the back-tracking is or how your faux-horrified self might be fooled.
    I won't dignify this by asking the questions I am now about to ask...


  • #2258
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    DanielODonnell wrote: »
    All English adults are roughly the same,

    No. Roughly 43 million adults do not conform to your fabrication. Get out more. Talk to more English people if that's what you genuinely believe.


  • #2259
    Carlos Orange
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,499 ✭✭✭Carlos Orange


    DanielODonnell wrote: »
    yes sorry i meant to exclude the asian population and some of the irish catholic-english

    What about the English Catholic English?


  • #2260
    Shep_Dog
    Closed Accounts Posts: 499 ✭✭Shep_Dog


    Dughorm wrote: »
    Sorry where is the child abuse in anything you have said here? Is it the "attack on self-esteem"? We had better hide the dictionaries lads :rolleyes:
    Attacking the self-esteem of a child is emotional abuse, also known as 'child abuse'. No need for a dictionary, it's a matter of morals.

    It's often the case that abusers don't recognise what they do is harmful, and quite often too, victims are too young to understand what is being done to them and accept it as 'normal'. Some grow up with the same attitudes as their abusers.

    This is why we have so many people in this country who say they 'support' Irish (after 13 years of coercion) but, don't speak the language or make any effort to learn it.

    This toxic result is the responsibility of the Irish-language movement and it would be very constructive if they acknowledged the harm done to children and the language. Then, maybe, fertile ground can be found to nurture the Irish language.


  • #2261
    DanielODonnell
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 652 ✭✭✭DanielODonnell


    they are the same as the rest of the english, Christianity is weak in England and it isn't closely linked with culture.

    The last english catholic I met said she was a fan of Thatcher,


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  • #2262
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    psinno wrote: »
    What about the English Catholic English?
    What about the Irish, Catholic, Irish and spam? There's not much spam in that.


  • #2263
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,534 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    feargale wrote: »
    Come on, now. You know very well that I was comparing principle, not magnitude. But never miss an opportunity to express horror. Such is the level of discourse on Boards.

    "if Gaeltacht residents want compulsory Irish shoved down their childrens' throats" - What an extraordinary way of putting things. How many of these abused Gaeltacht children do you know, who had Irish shoved down their throats by their Irish-speaking parent? So, now we know how to raise our kids. When baby utters its first syllable you say " Baby, here's a list of the world's languages. Which one would you like us to speak to you?

    Given the foregoing, the horror ( genuine, no doubt ) expressed at the mention of Irish Water is hardly surprising. ( I've paid mine, by the way. ) Ok, in deference to your sensitivities, substitute any government communication you like. Then, hopefully, you will get my point. Otherwise, you will have succeeded in derailing my point.

    Off topic indeed. Thank you for thanking it, Mod.

    Again with the straw men. You brought up prisoners, not myself. You mean to say that these children can opt out of learning the language then if it is not being shoved down their throats?

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • #2264
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,069 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    Can the real Daniel O'Donnell please stand up :)

    The one on here is obviously on a wind-up mission, and he has to a degree succeeded in taking this thread off on a tangent, I suggest we ignore him and his crazed rantings (which have nothing to do with the thread topic).


  • #2265
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,069 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    feargale wrote: »
    Lord Sutch, I would like to get your take on this.

    OK, but give me the question again, so that its crystal clear for me.


  • #2266
    DanielODonnell
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 652 ✭✭✭DanielODonnell


    Lord-Sutch the classic Michael Collins pro-treaty man, i picture you with the legs crossed sitting watching the 10 o clock ITV news whilst reading the Guardian


  • #2267
    feargale
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,634 ✭✭✭feargale


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    Well if your proposal is that we only have mandatory Irish within Galetacht areas then what can I say, great idea.
    ancapailldorcha wrote: »
    As long as they pay for it themselves.

    Sorry, Lord Sutch. I was away. Do you agree or disagree with capaill's response?


  • #2268
    feargale
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,634 ✭✭✭feargale


    DanielODonnell wrote: »
    Lord-Sutch the classic Michael Collins pro-treaty man, i picture you with the legs crossed sitting watching the 10 o clock ITV news whilst reading the Guardian

    Now, Sutch, time to come out. Were you with the Big Fella at Beal na Blath? :D


  • #2269
    Dughorm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 895 ✭✭✭Dughorm


    Shep_Dog wrote: »
    Attacking the self-esteem of a child is emotional abuse, also known as 'child abuse'. No need for a dictionary, it's a matter of morals.

    Just to be clear, do you think it's immoral for children to have to learn Irish in school?


  • #2270
    feargale
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,634 ✭✭✭feargale


    DanielODonnell wrote: »
    All English adults are roughly the same, they all hide behind their patriotism to form one united British Nationalist identity which is protective against any wrong doing the English have done.

    That's what the Chinese man said in court in London when he was asked if the defendant was the man who assaulted him : " I don't know. All Englishmen look the same to me."


  • #2271
    feargale
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,634 ✭✭✭feargale


    ancapailldorcha wrote: »
    Again with the straw men. You brought up prisoners, not myself. You mean to say that these children can opt out of learning the language then if it is not being shoved down their throats?

    What language were you able to opt out of at birth, or are you the character in Brian O'Nolan's At Swim Two Birds who was forty years of age when he was born?


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  • #2272
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,069 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    feargale wrote: »
    Sorry, Lord Sutch. I was away. Do you agree or disagree with capaill's response?

    Well my response would be that the state should pay for maintaining the Irish language all over the country, especially in Gaeltacht areas. Indeed why not boost the Irish speaking image of the west, while simultaneously dropping mandatory Irish in the rest of the country?

    I would hate to see the Irish language disappear altogether, but this business of trying to submerge the non speaking majority over several generations (with very limited return) can only result in a negative outcome, ie very little take-up in adopting Irish as our 1st spoken language! plus lots of unneeded and unnecessary negativity. After eighty-ninty years only a sisemic shift could 'kick start' the resurrection of the language in the general population, and I just don't see that happening, but I would like to see it thrive as a minority non mandatory language.

    This isn't Wales.


  • #2273
    feargale
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,634 ✭✭✭feargale


    DanielODonnell wrote: »
    I have no passion for the native tongue but I would use it sometimes simply to wind english people up. whenever they hear irish or scots gaelic they revert back to their native english ways of looking down their noses at peasant gaels.

    quote="DanielODonnell;96749936"]All English adults are roughly the same, they all hide behind their patriotism to form one united British Nationalist identity which is protective against any wrong doing the English have done.[/quote]

    Daniel, your posts are as useful to any cause, let it be Irish language, equality of esteem or whatever as Gregory Campbell is to Unionism, i.e. an embarrassment.


  • #2274
    feargale
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,634 ✭✭✭feargale


    LordSutch wrote: »
    Well my response would be that the state should pay for maintaining the Irish language all over the country, especially in Gaeltacht areas. Indeed why not boost the Irish speaking image of the west, while simultaneously dropping mandatory Irish in the rest of the country?

    I would hate to see the Irish language disappear altogether, but this business of trying to submerge the non speaking majority over several generations (with very limited return) can only result in a negative outcome, ie very little take-up in adopting Irish as our 1st spoken language! plus lots of unneeded and unnecessary negativity. After eighty-ninty years only a sisemic shift could 'kick start' the resurrection of the language in the general population, and I just don't see that happening, but I would like to see it thrive as a minority non mandatory language.

    This isn't Wales.

    Well said, Sutch. I am largely in agreement with you. It is so, so pointless to foist Irish on people who don't want it. Incidentally, rather than promote Irish, I would prioritise ensuring that those who want Irish language services have them. Irish is never in the future going to become once more the majority language of this country. I read a book some time ago which had a chapter by a lady from Connemara giving her perspective on growing up in an Irish language environment and the cultural difficulties she now experiences in a different environment. Whenever I lay my hands on the book these threads are gone zombie. I hope to find it sometime when one of these threads is ongoing so that I can post the reference.
    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Yep. That or another small layer of progressive tax deducted from his wages.

    It's the fairest system. He who wants additional services pays for them.

    Now Frozenman, would you apply the same principle to Protestant schools? Let those who want additional services pay for them? We are talking about minorities, are'nt we?


  • #2275
    Shep_Dog
    Closed Accounts Posts: 499 ✭✭Shep_Dog


    Dughorm wrote: »
    Just to be clear, do you think it's immoral for children to have to learn Irish in school?
    It is immoral and wrong for children to be abused as part of the 'Main Aim' of Irish language fanatics to reinstate Irish as the common language of Ireland.

    Specifically, I think it wrong to force native English-speaking children to speak Irish and for them to be told that they are not proper Irish people unless they do. It is also wrong to beat children for failing to speak Irish. It is wrong too, for their English surnames to be transformed into bogus Irish surnames and for their English-speaking heritage to be denigrated by Irish teachers.


  • #2276
    inocybe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 505 ✭✭✭inocybe


    LordSutch wrote: »
    Well my response would be that the state should pay for maintaining the Irish language all over the country, especially in Gaeltacht areas. Indeed why not boost the Irish speaking image of the west, while simultaneously dropping mandatory Irish in the rest of the country?

    Howls of protest from the west! Up the road from me is a nice shiny Gaeltacht sign, I've never met an Irish speaker yet. No doubt a few families tucked away somewhere managed to get it designated to get a grant.


  • #2277
    feargale
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,634 ✭✭✭feargale


    inocybe wrote: »
    Howls of protest from the west! Up the road from me is a nice shiny Gaeltacht sign, I've never met an Irish speaker yet. No doubt a few families tucked away somewhere managed to get it designated to get a grant.

    Claregalway?


  • #2278
    inocybe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 505 ✭✭✭inocybe


    feargale wrote: »
    Claregalway?

    No, but there's another example.


  • #2279
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,534 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    feargale wrote: »
    What language were you able to opt out of at birth, or are you the character in Brian O'Nolan's At Swim Two Birds who was forty years of age when he was born?

    You're making absolutely no sense at all.

    I had to learn English as it's the national language and Irish in vain because... well... there really isn't a single good reason.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • #2280
    An Ciarraioch
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,806 ✭✭✭An Ciarraioch


    ancapailldorcha wrote: »
    You're making absolutely no sense at all.

    I had to learn English as it's the national language and Irish in vain because... well... there really isn't a single good reason.

    Still, some of it must have sunk in, given your choice of username!


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  • #2281
    LuckyLloyd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,661 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    The Corinthian wrote: »
    Because other than you and a handful of people here no one speaks it.

    Because this is an English language forum.

    Because it has no relevance to all but a tiny minority of the lives of people in Ireland who are living in a fantasy World because in reality it has relevance only to them.

    Asking 'why' is simply another example of the denial that many gaelgores are in. Making the language obligatory and keeping it so despite the fact that this has failed to stem the language's decline is another. All they've succeeded in doing is alienating the majority and maintaining a system of jobs for the buachaillí for themselves.

    Those who ask 'why' are the one's who have killed the language, because they're asking a question that has been answered over and over again and have simply stuck their fingers in their ears, drowning out the truth with jingoism.

    The language will eventually lose it's mandatory status. In time market pressure will see the jobs cut back bit by bit. And in another generation or two it will reside only in universities thanks to those who ask 'why' when why was staring them in the face all along, but ignored it.

    Strong post. Totally agree - a savage defeat lurks in the not too distant future, a defeat of selfish ignorance.


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