The Irish language is failing.

Iwasfrozen

Aineoil wrote: »

Why?

Because the moderators can't moderate.

Iwasfrozen

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Because the moderators can't moderate.

and frustrates those who want rid of the language.

umop apisdn

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Because the moderators can't moderate.

Is their Irish that bad, have they never heard of google translate ?

DyldeBrill

LordSutch wrote: »

3. Might as well teach the Irish National Anthem in its original form "English" at this stage, such is the mangling of the Irish version you hear so frequently at football matches etc .

Ha! Absolutely ridiculous.

You'd rather our anthem be sung in the English form?

Iwasfrozen

DyldeBrill wrote: »

Ha! Absolutely ridiculous.

You'd rather our anthem be sung in the English form?

He's not alone in that sentiment. They should at least have equal status.

LordSutch

DyldeBrill wrote: »

Ha! Absolutely ridiculous.

You'd rather our anthem be sung in the English form?

The English version being the original version, the one everybody understands.

That one, no?

dr.fuzzenstein

umop apisdn wrote: »

Is their Irish that bad, have they never heard of google translate ?

Dann kannst du es auch für Deutsch gebrauchen.
Weisst du dass Althochdeutsch und Latein keine Pflichtfächer sind?
Warum nicht? Weil kein Schwein diese toten Sprachen braucht.
Nicht jeder hier spricht Irisch.

umop apisdn

umop apisdn wrote: »

Is their Irish that bad, have they never heard of google translate ?

Google translate only works if the text is written correctly, a couple of spelling mistakes or the grammer poor and it's fúcked!

Carlos Orange

DyldeBrill wrote: »

Ha! Absolutely ridiculous.

You'd rather our anthem be sung in the English form?

Singing our anthem in the language people speak, pure craziness.

Dughorm

LordSutch wrote: »

1. English is our 1st spoken language, Polish is the 2nd most spoken language in the state, with Irish (the official language of the state), falling behind as the 3rd most spoken language in the state!

Doesn't change what I said about national languages - if you feel Polish or Arabic should be a national language you can raise this with your local TD. Also should you wish to converse with Polish or Arabic speaking peoples in this country pretty sure you have the option to learn it for the leaving cert.

LordSutch wrote: »

2. English (Hiberno) being our natural-national language provides a portal by which people can understand the heritage of the island they live on, 1st hand.

Part of Irish heritage is indeed of English Speaking origin - "the pale" from the 16th century or so, the plantation settlers, most of the island from the 19th century etc... all have made a contribution to it - in the same way people should understand the works of Jonathan Swift in its idiom so should people be able to enjoy their heritage that is Irish speaking in origin, such as interesting works like Cúirt An Mheán Oíche that should be enjoyed first hand and not through translation after 13 years of Irish learning.

LordSutch wrote: »

3. Might as well teach the Irish National Anthem in its original form "English" at this stage, such is the mangling of the Irish version you hear so frequently at football matches etc. As regards what happened between 1916 - 1922, well that's what led to mandatory Irish for all > yet here we are several generations and eight decades later, and we as a nation are still not opting to speak Irish . . .

If you want the anthem sung in English, Irish removed as our national language, "optional" Irish in schools - more power to you. That is a consistent line of argument...

Dan_Solo

Deleted User wrote: »

and frustrates those who want rid of the language.

How does it frustrate those who want Irish to be optional? It just makes it look like the pro-Irish brigade is shoving Irish down everybody's throat as per usual.

GreaseGunner

Dan_Solo wrote: »

How does it frustrate those who want Irish to be optional? It just makes it look like the pro-Irish brigade is shoving Irish down everybody's throat as per usual.

There's a difference between wanting to be rid of the language and wanting it to be optional in schools.

Some people can put forward a decent case for it being optional, fair enough. Others are calling for it's head.

Dan_Solo

GreaseGunner wrote: »

There's a difference between wanting to be rid of the language and wanting it to be optional in schools.

Some people can put forward a decent case for it being optional, fair enough. Others are calling for it's head.

Go on then, show us anyone here who cares what happens to Irish beyond it not being compulsory in school. Should be easy, right?

GreaseGunner

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Go on then, show us anyone here who cares what happens to Irish beyond it not being compulsory in school. Should be easy, right?

There's over 2000 posts in the thread. Give a scroll back and read a few. I'd imagine there's 1 or 2 people concerned about Irish outside of schools. It's very easy, actually

Dan_Solo

GreaseGunner wrote: »

There's over 2000 posts in the thread. Give a scroll back and read a few. I'd imagine there's 1 or 2 people concerned about Irish outside of schools. It's very easy, actually

So that's a no then, you just fabricated your claim and you can't back it up with a quote at all.
Who would have guessed?

GreaseGunner

Dan_Solo wrote: »

So that's a no then, you just fabricated your claim and you can't back it up with a quote at all.
Who would have guessed?

Here's those quotes you needed

the Irish language could learn a lot from their Celtic cousins across the water in Wales.... The Welsh language has grown in strength since. I live in Wales and hear it every day without fail...and to be honest I am quite jealous that they have that and Ireland doesn't. Too much time is spent on old stories and poems in Irish when more time should be spend on actually being able to have full blown conversation in the language itself.

Aongus Von Bismarck wrote: »

I like the Irish language and hope it doesn't disappear. I'm not very good at reading or speaking it myself, but I have noticed that my favourite Irish writers working with the English language have all come from native or fluent Irish speaking backgrounds.

Summer wind wrote: »

I'm not a fluent Irish speaker but I have enough to get by. I would hate to see the language die out completely because it's ours and ours alone. Hopefully it won't.

Reiver wrote: »

...Having our own language is something distinct at least. Working in my fifth country right now and I always get disbelieving looks when I say most people don't speak Irish in Ireland. I'm always surprised at the vitriol that can be directed towards it at times.

Deleted User wrote: »

Are you fluent? I'd love to be, but I'm not. So I certainly wouldn't foist it on my daughter. I would hope she would like to learn it when she is old enough to make a decision.

pablomakaveli wrote: »

I hated Irish in school but since i left i've come to regret not being able to speak it fluently and learning it is something i hope to achieve at some point.

IrishTrajan wrote: »

I don't speak that much Irish, I actually failed it in my Leaving Cert, but now I'm trying to learn it on my own, and I find it a lot more attractive because I want to learn it

IrishTrajan wrote: »

But it shouldn't be a "hobby"... we should be trying to bring it back.

All of the above are examples of people who care what happens to the Irish language aside from it being compulsory in schools. While I've shortened some to avoid this post being more long winded than it already is, their context wasn't effected. Admittedly many of the above come from personal values with some a more national view, but all are valid. Those are taken from the first 10 of the 148 pages in the thread so it is safe to say there are plenty more to be easily found.

Dan_Solo

GreaseGunner wrote: »

Here's those quotes you needed










All of the above are examples of people who care what happens to the Irish language aside from it being compulsory in schools. While I've shortened some to avoid this post being more long winded than it already is, their context wasn't effected. Admittedly many of the above come from personal values with some a more national view, but all are valid. Those are taken from the first 10 of the 148 pages in the thread so it is safe to say there are plenty more to be easily found.

What you said was:

GreaseGunner wrote: »

Some people can put forward a decent case for it being optional, fair enough. Others are calling for it's head.

So, once more, who in this thread is "calling for it's head"?

GreaseGunner

Dan_Solo wrote: »

What you said was:
So, once more, who in this thread is "calling for it's head"?

The following, all from relatively early in the thread. When I said "calling for it's head" I meant people who seem to feel a very strong hatred towards the language to the point where there wasn't space left for debate, be it pro or anti Irish.

Let it die. We'll mourn it when it's gone.



It's a crap antiquated language mostly supported by posh people and raving loonies from rural Ireland.



If Irish dies out I will be very very happy indeed!



If this sh*t dies out it will be the ultimate revenge for us all on those flatcap-wearing, potato growing culchie retards who revered this poisonous nonsense. If the internet helps it die then I will love the internet even more.
I'll dance a jig if this thing disappears....good riddance.



Irish is a dead useless language forced on irish kids by fascists .
Kill it now, it's not used



Let it die!



Time to let Irish go to the history books and stop wasting money and time on it

kingchess

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Go on then, show us anyone here who cares what happens to Irish beyond it not being compulsory in school. Should be easy, right?

Sorry but is that the question you wanted answered,??And its seems it has been answered by greasegunner,

Dan_Solo

GreaseGunner wrote: »

The following, all from relatively early in the thread. When I said "calling for it's head" I meant people who seem to feel a very strong hatred towards the language to the point where there wasn't space left for debate, be it pro or anti Irish.

Hang on now:

Let it die. We'll mourn it when it's gone.

Does that sound like somebody who actually wants Irish to die?

Time to let Irish go to the history books and stop wasting money and time on it

"Let" isn't the same as "want" either.
Fair enough, you found about 4 real one from months ago out of 1000s of posts... not sure if that proves your case or mine though.

boobar

That's the end of the Tuiseal Ginideach...

Thank f&ck

The Corinthian

Aineoil wrote: »

Why?

Because other than you and a handful of people here no one speaks it.

Because this is an English language forum.

Because it has no relevance to all but a tiny minority of the lives of people in Ireland who are living in a fantasy World because in reality it has relevance only to them.

Asking 'why' is simply another example of the denial that many gaelgores are in. Making the language obligatory and keeping it so despite the fact that this has failed to stem the language's decline is another. All they've succeeded in doing is alienating the majority and maintaining a system of jobs for the buachaillí for themselves.

Those who ask 'why' are the one's who have killed the language, because they're asking a question that has been answered over and over again and have simply stuck their fingers in their ears, drowning out the truth with jingoism.

The language will eventually lose it's mandatory status. In time market pressure will see the jobs cut back bit by bit. And in another generation or two it will reside only in universities thanks to those who ask 'why' when why was staring them in the face all along, but ignored it.

Dughorm

The Corinthian wrote: »

Asking 'why' is simply another example of the denial that many gaelgores are in. Making the language obligatory and keeping it so despite the fact that this has failed to stem the language's decline is another. All they've succeeded in doing is alienating the majority and maintaining a system of jobs for the buachaillí for themselves.

Those who ask 'why' are the one's who have killed the language

That was an impressive rhetorical flourish but to blame the people who speak the language as being the ones who have killed it is a bit harsh no?

100 years ago there was a large portion of the Island that had little or nothing to do with Irish. This continues to the present day outside the educational system.

I would suggest mandatory Irish has helped those interested (and perhaps not interested) achieve a better proficiency in Irish, at least in their late teens, than they otherwise would have had.

I fail to see why a single handed optional Irish strategy, with no other pro-active changes, would serve to further the use of the language in any way. Those who resented (or were taught to resent) learning the language for their 13 years of schooling at present, would resent it as much after their first 11 years in any case I would suspect...

Shep_Dog

Dughorm wrote: »

I would suggest mandatory Irish has helped those interested (and perhaps not interested) achieve a better proficiency in Irish, at least in their late teens, than they otherwise would have had.

That sentence contradicts itself.

Dughorm wrote: »

I fail to see why a single handed optional Irish strategy, with no other pro-active changes, would serve to further the use of the language in any way.

It's a lack of vision that is holding Irish back. Reinstating Irish as common language of Ireland is not a vision it's a delusion.

Making Irish optional plus an apology to all those harmed by Irish-language policies would be tremendously pro-active. It would initiate the healing process of the deep-seated wounds inflicted by Irish-language fanatics on generations of Irish children.

Dughorm

Shep_Dog wrote: »

That sentence contradicts itself.

Please explain

Shep_Dog wrote:

It's a lack of vision that is holding Irish back. Reinstating Irish as common language of Ireland is not a vision it's a delusion.

So it's both a lack of vision and the vision of reinstating Irish as a common language that is holding Irish back?

Shep_Dog wrote:

Making Irish optional plus an apology to all those harmed by Irish-language policies would be tremendously pro-active. It would initiate the healing process of the deep-seated wounds inflicted by Irish-language fanatics on generations of Irish children.

Can you explain what you mean by "harmed" and "deep-seated wounds" by Irish-language policies? Are you suggesting that the way Irish is currently taught is tantamount to child abuse? That is rather flippant and offensive to child abuse survivors no?

The Corinthian

Dughorm wrote: »

That was an impressive rhetorical flourish but to blame the people who speak the language as being the ones who have killed it is a bit harsh no?

Not the people who speak the language. The gaelgores.

They're the one's who identify with an Irish culture that was largely invented as recently as the 1930's. Who tend to work in areas related to the language and that pseudo culture and who benefit financially from the the state support of the language. The one's who ultimately are more interested in the status quo than the language. Who identify with the term gaelgore like a badge.

Not the same as those speaking the language. I know a few of those, who were born and bred in the Gaeltacht, who also consider such gaelgores a bunch of tossers who have irreparably damaged the language.

100 years ago there was a large portion of the Island that had little or nothing to do with Irish. This continues to the present day outside the educational system.

I would suggest mandatory Irish has helped those interested (and perhaps not interested) achieve a better proficiency in Irish, at least in their late teens, than they otherwise would have had.

Wake up and smell the coffee. At the very least the fact that the language is still declining and that mandatory Irish elicits such hostility should have rung a bell even with the dimmest of individuals.

So suggest all you want, but all evidence points to mandatory Irish having helped no one, but those employed to service the Irish language education industry.

Those who resented (or were taught to resent)

"Were taught to resent." Priceless.

You don't get levels of denial like that every day.

Dughorm

The Corinthian wrote: »

Not the people who speak the language. The gaelgores.

They're the one's who identify with an Irish culture that was largely invented as recently as the 1930's. Who tend to work in areas related to the language and that pseudo culture and who benefit financially from the the state support of the language. The one's who ultimately are more interested in the status quo than the language. Who identify with the term gaelgore like a badge.

Not the same as those speaking the language. I know a few of those, who were born and bred in the Gaeltacht, who also consider such gaelgores a bunch of tossers who have irreparably damaged the language.

I don't understand how "the gaelgores" obtain their status and power to irreparably damage the language tbh?

The Corinthian wrote:

Wake up and smell the coffee. At the very least the fact that the language is still declining and that mandatory Irish elicits such hostility should have rung a bell even with the dimmest of individuals.

You mean such hostility in this thread? You would need to explain how this hostility is extrapolated to the population at large...

If you look at the aspect of choice which is there i.e. the option to study honours or pass, those choosing to study higher level Irish consistently outstrips those who choose to study higher level Maths. Why would this be the case given the lack of bonus points and outright "hostility" to Irish you believe exists?

The Corinthian wrote:

So suggest all you want, but all evidence points to mandatory Irish having helped no one, but those employed to service the Irish language education industry.

It helped me to speak and enjoy the language more than I would have otherwise and I come from an English speaking background.

The Corinthian wrote:

"Were taught to resent." Priceless.

You don't get levels of denial like that every day.

Yes, some Irish teaching is so poor imo that the result was that they were taught to resent it.... there's no denial there that's the reality for plenty of students i'm sure.

Shep_Dog

Dughorm wrote: »

Please explain

Your claim that people who wanted to learn Irish were helped by being compelled to do so, is bizarre.

Dughorm wrote: »

So it's both a lack of vision and the vision of reinstating Irish as a common language that is holding Irish back?

The clue is in the word 'reinstate'. That is a regressive attitude. Their vision of the future is to go back to the past. It's not vision, it's a nostalgic fantasy.

Can you explain what you mean by "harmed" and "deep-seated wounds" by Irish-language policies? Are you suggesting that the way Irish is currently taught is tantamount to child abuse? That is rather flippant and offensive to child abuse survivors no?

There are varying degrees and forms of child abuse. But, I know that it is usually difficult for abusers to recognise the harm they do, they usually find a way of rationalising it. Even today, the victims will say they support Irish in order to avoid further abuse from Irish-language fanatics.

Dughorm

Shep_Dog wrote: »

Your claim that people who wanted to learn Irish were helped by being compelled to do so, is bizarre.

First, that sentence doesn't contradict itself.

Second, in the current retrograde "points race" it is quite likely people who wanted to learn the language would feel obligated to pick what might be considered to be a "points-friendly" subject to ensure they get the points required for their course. Nothing bizarre about that, simple forces of educational capitalism at work...

Shep_Dog wrote:

There are varying degrees and forms of child abuse. But, I know that it is usually difficult for abusers to recognise the harm they do, they usually find a way of rationalising it. Even today, the victims will say they support Irish in order to avoid further abuse from Irish-language fanatics.

I can't believe you are standing over this child abuse analogy?! Is there some aspect of the Irish syllabus that constitutes child abuse or are you referring to abusive teachers?

Aineoil

The Corinthian wrote: »

Because other than you and a handful of people here no one speaks it.

Because this is an English language forum.

Because it has no relevance to all but a tiny minority of the lives of people in Ireland who are living in a fantasy World because in reality it has relevance only to them.

Asking 'why' is simply another example of the denial that many gaelgores are in. Making the language obligatory and keeping it so despite the fact that this has failed to stem the language's decline is another. All they've succeeded in doing is alienating the majority and maintaining a system of jobs for the buachaillí for themselves.

Those who ask 'why' are the one's who have killed the language, because they're asking a question that has been answered over and over again and have simply stuck their fingers in their ears, drowning out the truth with jingoism.

The language will eventually lose it's mandatory status. In time market pressure will see the jobs cut back bit by bit. And in another generation or two it will reside only in universities thanks to those who ask 'why' when why was staring them in the face all along, but ignored it.

I just asked "why" I could not post in Irish here. I got my answer and was very happy with it. It seems fair to me. But why are you attacking me?