Is the Western World anti-man?

One eyed Jack · 19-08-2015 01:00PM

frostyjacks wrote: »

Yes. Masculine traits such as reason and logic are getting overruled by the feminine traits like emotion and (hyper)sensitivity. Men and women are fundamentally different, it's ridiculous that we have to pretend we're all the same.

We don't though, we don't have to pretend at all about anything. I've never pretended that men and women are the same and I don't treat men the same as I treat women. Nobody I've ever met has complained about the way I treat them based on their gender. I treat most people with respect and dignity, and I those people I don't have any respect for is simply because I don't like them, regardless of their gender.

Kev W · 19-08-2015 01:01PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

But that's the point. By abolishing all the aspects which were unfair to women (rightly) but turning a total blind eye to the other side of the coin, the institution has now become profoundly anti-male - and men are regularly shouted down for pointing this out.

Who's shouting you down?

Carlos Orange · 19-08-2015 01:03PM

I don't know about being anti male but when >10% of men 25-35 have emigrated and men are 40% more likely to be unemployed than women Ireland clearly aint a great place to be a man.

Kev W · 19-08-2015 01:03PM

frostyjacks wrote: »

Yes. Masculine traits such as reason and logic are getting overruled by the feminine traits like emotion and (hyper)sensitivity. Men and women are fundamentally different, it's ridiculous that we have to pretend we're all the same.

I feel like you may have meant this for the Star Trek thread.

sunshine and showers · 19-08-2015 01:04PM

Kev W wrote: »

Who's shouting you down?

Sorry, that was me. Only I was laughing him down...

preddy · 19-08-2015 01:05PM

So is the OP saying the Taliban had it right all along?:cool:

Iseedeadpixels · 19-08-2015 01:05PM

Following this thread as Kev W was the "highlight" of the nightclub girl/guy/person/thing/whatever thread a few weeks ago

0byme75341jo28 · 19-08-2015 01:07PM

RWCNT wrote: »

Stopped reading after you asserted that male privilege is imaginary. If that is your opinion then you're either severely deluded or you don't understand the terms meaning, no other option applicable.

I see far more instances of women gaining an advantage because of their gender than men, male privilege is non existent in the western world.

kylith · 19-08-2015 01:08PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

But that's the point. By abolishing all the aspects which were unfair to women (rightly) but turning a total blind eye to the other side of the coin, the institution has now become profoundly anti-male - and men are regularly shouted down for pointing this out.

if there are aspects of life that are unfair to men then those should certainly be identified and changed. Unfortunately when you see men complaining about feminazis or misandry or anti-male sentiment they tend to be more focussed on the fact that the aspects which were unfair to women have been removed and why that's a Bad Thing and little focussed on things like the rights of unmarried fathers or men who are victims of domestic abuse.

Samaris · 19-08-2015 01:09PM

Any thread that suggests that Logic and Reason Are ManThings and Emotions and Feelings is Womanthings is going to get a hearty snort from me.

I treat people as people first, gender second, and I am quite happy to be treated the same way, thank you very much.

There are a few areas where men need support and a few areas where women need support. Neither side will get that support if the other side is busy trying to squash their work as well.

Women, your enemies are Men as a whole, it's certain societal issues that are taking a while to be ground away.
Men, your enemies aren't Women either; again, they're based on certain societal issues that..etc.

But nooo, we have to tribal up into our Mangroups and Womangroups and never the twain shall work together >.> Because what's the fun of winning if someone else doesn't lose?

'Course, it's easier to bitch about stuff then actually get involved in doing something about it. Also, to the post about ManBrains and WomanBrains; snort.

Potatoeman · 19-08-2015 01:10PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I have some close female friends.

From hearing what they go through, objectification, abuse, groping, and just the general way in which they are treated like meat and how many men, even married friends of mine, have tried it on with them, assuming they hardly have the self esteem to not want to be a dirty little secret, it's depressing. The worst are the many men who go from pleading to abuse when knocked back.

It sounds like they need better friends. That's like a man judging every woman on that one wagon they know.

Shenshen · 19-08-2015 01:10PM

Seeing as it's effectively run by men (national leaders, owners/CEO of businesses and companies, military, you name it chances are its run by a man), you'd really have to wonder at male masochism to turn it all anti-man....

sunshine and showers · 19-08-2015 01:11PM

Samuel Scary Urination wrote: »

I see far more instances of women gaining an advantage because of their gender than men, male privilege is non existent in the western world.

Hahahahaha, you are on FIRE today.

Kev W · 19-08-2015 01:13PM

Samuel Scary Urination wrote: »

I see far more instances of women gaining an advantage because of their gender than men, male privilege is non existent in the western world.

Perhaps you see it that way because you don't recognise your privilege, seeing it as simply "the way things are"?
Many forms of privilege are the absence of things.

When was the last time you felt afraid to be outside alone at night, for example?

A fish doesn't know it's surrounded by water until you take it out.

Samaris · 19-08-2015 01:14PM

Potatoeman wrote: »

It sounds like they need better friends. That's like a man judging every woman on that one wagon they know.

Hm, actually, a point on that. The vast majority of us will only see one side of it all from the inside. For instance, my experience tells me that there's a lot of aggravating, cowardly blokes that will catcall me from cars or in the street. It annoys me thoroughly when it happens. It happens to quite a lot of my female friends too. So, from that experience, and because we all know it happens and speak easily about it (albeit in tones of irritation when it happens), I could make the inference that it only happens to women. However, my 6ft, fairly solid bloke of a partner came back the other day annoyed because a bunch of girls had done the same thing to him.

So, yeah, it's possible that half the squabbling comes from the fact that we just (most of us) can't live for long enough as the other gender to get a good idea of what the world feels like to one of them. Possibly.

NachoBusiness · 19-08-2015 01:15PM

kylith wrote: »

Unfortunately when you see men complaining about feminazis or misandry or anti-male sentiment they tend to be more focussed on the fact that the aspects which were unfair to women have been removed and why that's a Bad Thing..

Yeah, cause all we ever hear from these men is how they want women's right to vote rescinded.

Kev W · 19-08-2015 01:16PM

Potatoeman wrote: »

It sounds like they need better friends. That's like a man judging every woman on that one wagon they know.

At no point in the post you quoted did anyone judge every man by the actions of one man. In fact nobody judged any men by the actions of anybody. If every element has to be exaggerated to make your point, how strong can your point be?

0byme75341jo28 · 19-08-2015 01:18PM

sunshine and showers wrote: »

Hahahahaha, you are on FIRE today.

You have offered nothing of any substance to contradict my statements, it would be nice if you could do so.

Kev W wrote: »

Perhaps you see it that way because you don't recognise your privilege, seeing it as simply "the way things are"?
Many forms of privilege are the absence of things.

When was the last time you felt afraid to be outside alone at night, for example?

A fish doesn't know it's surrounded by water until you take it out.

I feel afraid when I'm outside alone at night, it's simply not safe and I would always either get a taxi or make sure I am not on my own.

One eyed Jack · 19-08-2015 01:18PM

Cold War Kid wrote: »

This isn't all due to women/feminists though, much of it is a status quo held up by men.

This is the essence of it really. Why shouldn't people fight for a better world for themselves, there's nothing stopping anyone else from doing the same. Feminism isn't the problem at all, they're not responsible for men who won't argue for their own welfare, because for the vast majority of men, they simply don't care and aren't bothered about other men's welfare. That leads me to believe that they don't believe the Western world is "anti-men" either.

Speaking personally for myself, I've never experienced discrimination against me based on my gender, I've experienced discrimination for plenty of other reasons though, gender is just one aspect of the Western world being discriminatory, not truly "anti" anyone. If you're looking for examples of discrimination, you're always likely to find them, based on an infinite number of criteria.

19-08-2015 01:19PM

I think right now there are some things that are beneficial in society to both genders somewhat unfairly. It makes sense that because men have reigned supreme in the corporate world for so long with misogynistic views that there would be some sort of a reactive stage to that. And rightly so. Some women are going to be stared at and some men, rich and powerful all the way down to Joe in the supermarket get quite bitter at rejection so there will certainly be some troubling incidents based on that that lead to a good narrative in the media that can lead to widespread anti-male sentiments which is certainly not indicative of the general male but while certain women will be ok with the attention and strong enough to deal with it there will also be some creeped out somewhat by it. Understandable. It is a natural desire but there is a difference between a few glances at a person and full on staring and people have to be respective of that.

On the flipside there is certainly some pisstaking with regards to certain issues in the law with men. Father's rights have been discussed and this current jokeworthy thing whereby if 2 people are drinking and have sex it is the man who is seen as being in the wrong if there is regret on the female side. Obviously there are certain cases where there has been an incident but 2 people getting pissed and having sex and one deciding a few days later that they regret it can't go screaming rape. As far as I'm aware in California and some other places it would be seen as such anyway. There should be some protection in place for women and men with regards sexual assault but there have been some baffling cases against men in this regard which can be tough to shake off even if they've done nothing wrong other than get pissed and have a one night stand.

That logic and reason-emotion statement above is jokeworthy too, not worth a reply.

EazyD · 19-08-2015 01:20PM

Anti-man is a bit strong of a statement to make. If you posed the question of whether double standards exist in modern society, then the answer would be most certainly yes.

kylith · 19-08-2015 01:20PM

Samuel Scary Urination wrote: »

I feel afraid when I'm outside alone at night, it's simply not safe and I would always either get a taxi or make sure I am not on my own.

Ever find yourself worrying that that taxi driver is going to attack you?

Kev W · 19-08-2015 01:21PM

Samuel Scary Urination wrote: »

You have offered nothing of any substance to contradict my statements, it would be nice if you could do so.

I feel afraid when I'm outside alone at night, it's simply not safe and I would always either get a taxi or make sure I am not on my own.

You feel safe in a taxi?

Zubeneschamali · 19-08-2015 01:21PM

Samuel Scary Urination wrote: »

I'm a man, and I'm proud of that fact.

Well done you, being born male, quite an achievement!

candlegrease · 19-08-2015 01:22PM

Kev W wrote: »

Perhaps you see it that way because you don't recognise your privilege, seeing it as simply "the way things are"?
Many forms of privilege are the absence of things.

When was the last time you felt afraid to be outside alone at night, for example?

A fish doesn't know it's surrounded by water until you take it out.

Have never felt afraid to be alone at night...

But am daily haunted by the fact that I don't have a uterus and can't have a baby.

Why must I suffer this injustice based on gender? I thought men and women were supposed to be equal?

0byme75341jo28 · 19-08-2015 01:22PM

kylith wrote: »

Ever find yourself worrying that that taxi driver is going to attack you?

No, and if you're that paranoid I'd suggest speaking to a therapist.

Are you worried the taxi driver will attack you because he's a male?

RWCNT · 19-08-2015 01:23PM

Samuel Scary Urination wrote: »

I see far more instances of women gaining an advantage because of their gender than men, male privilege is non existent in the western world.

You see far MORE instances of women gaining an advantage due to their gender? So you must see SOME examples of men gaining advantage due to theirs? Yet you still categorically deny the existence of male privilege in the western world?

Your OP reeks of a victimhood complex tbh.

Kev W · 19-08-2015 01:24PM

Samuel Scary Urination wrote: »

No, and if you're that paranoid I'd suggest speaking to a therapist.

Are you worried the taxi driver will attack you because he's a male?

So fear of being attacked is paranoid? It's not like it doesn't happen.
Interesting assumption that the taxi driver is male.

Wibbs · 19-08-2015 01:25PM

Kev W wrote: »

The gap exists.

Indeed it does, at 30 the average childless Irish woman is earning more than the average 30 year old Irish man. Source That's before we get to the ever widening education gap, that if it was favouring men there would be ructions over it(rightfully)

Any more?

The "1 in 4/3/5[insert makey uppy figure here] are raped" is nonsense, which makes "rape culture" in the West a hysterical nonsense with it.

Liam O wrote:

On the flipside there is certainly some pisstaking with regards to certain issues in the law with men. Father's rights have been discussed and this current jokeworthy thing whereby if 2 people are drinking and have sex it is the man who is seen as being in the wrong if there is regret on the female side.

Liam O That's because third wave feminism or whatever label they attach to themselves these days holds that women have no agency, no responsibility, it is always the man/men's fault, because patriarchy. Very convenient. Cake and eat it time. Men hold all responsibility and not just their own, but hers too. Very Victorian altogether. It seems much of modern feminism has had an irony bypass. And before the "oh that's just the extreme", nope this is mainstream feminism that holds these views.

orubiru · 19-08-2015 01:26PM

Samuel Scary Urination wrote: »

I think it is clear to see for anyone who can think for themselves that the western world is currently extremely anti-man. The examples are everywhere, from gender quotas to cries of "sexual harrassment" for being stared at. Misandry is now acceptable in most areas of life, whilst any attempt to point this out is usually received with a backlash of abuse, and quite ironically, more misandry.

In my opinion the media and large portions of the Internet are doing their best to attach a shame to being male, similarly to what's happening to white people. Somehow it's my fault for being male and therefore benefitting from this imaginary "male privilege", and I should be ashamed of that. Nonsense.

I'm sick to the back teeth of attempts being made to make me feel bad about my masculinity. I'm a man, and I'm proud of that fact. I hope everyone feels the same way about themselves, even those who have changed gender.

The equality movement has gone too far.

I wouldn't say so. I think life in the western world is pretty agreeable for most people. Certainly in Ireland I don't think the real world is particularly "anti" anyone.

On The Internet it's a different story I suppose. Ridiculous articles, videos and tweets are just about everywhere. There is obviously power in internet mobs and witch hunts but the number of crazies who are willing, and able, to wield that power are rather small.

For the most part "anti men" articles and such exist as a weird form of entertainment. Seriously, take a look at the Everyday Feminism website and tell me that the writers there don't fully know that they are writing absolute nonsense that barely connects to reality. It's too not much different from some of the Creationist websites. They are all designed for like minded people to have a chuckle, nod their heads and then go about their day feeling superior. Feeling more intelligent or more civilized than "men" then maybe tweet a made up anecdote about how oppressed you were today knowing that nobody is gonna say "hang on a minute" and ask a question or two.

Spouting nonsense to each other in an echo chamber, refusing to engage in rational thought or just outright peddling lies and dishonesty. Meanwhile, everyone in the real world goes about their business.

OK, sometimes the nonsense from the internet can bleed in to real life and people (on both sides) lose their jobs or face harassment whilst others (on both sides) make a tidy profit on the back of "outrage". In general though, none of this affects people out there in the real world.

With the internet switched off I can experience no misandry at all. Nobody talks to me about my White Male Privilege (and they will get a history lesson if they do). Nobody makes me feel guilty or ashamed about the fact that I am a man.

The loving, caring, understanding and rational majority are silent while the deranged and delusional few write their blogs and spew their nonsense on the internet. It doesn't mean that men, as a general group, are widely hated or oppressed by society. Most likely a lot of these bloggers or internet posters log out and go and spend time with men that they love and care about. I can't imagine a woman who spends her time complaining on twitter about gender quotas etc would be too impressed, in the real world, if her son or husband or father missed out on a job or promotion because the company was forced to choose a woman instead.

Let's be honest here, the vast majority of women out there genuinely do want to have a good man in their lives. The majority of those women do already have a good man in their lives. They do not hate men. They do not hate masculinity. I'd actually argue that traditional ideas of masculinity are encouraged by the women in my life and I can't imagine that changing any time soon.

Is the Western World anti-man?

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