Is the Western World anti-man?

One eyed Jack

NachoBusiness wrote: »

Oh I am aware of what the claim was.
Would three men ever be thought to have been under the mind control of one woman though?

They're called "mammy's boys" - doing everything their mammy tells them. So yes, in that sense men are often seen as being under the control of women, and then there's that whole "men marry their mothers", an idiom which is meant to suggest that some men are indeed attracted to women who have similar traits to the way their mother treated them, and you'll surely have heard of men who won't go for a drink with their friends because they're "under the thumb"?

Slightly disingenuous to suggest any number of men would never be seen to be controlled by a woman.

Kev W

Wibbs wrote: »

I gave a source, try clicking on the word Source. Here it is again.. That's from the National Women's council of Ireland's report BTW.

I already had that pointed out to me and apologised for my oversight.

The Corinthian

B0jangles wrote: »

But seriously, none of feminists I know subscribe to the simplistic viewpoint you describe.

B0jangles meet Kev W. Kev W meet B0jangles.

B0jangles

On rape culture, there was a recent thread here on boards where a person was seeking advice on a situation where a friend had been, depending on your point of view, coerced into having sex / not actually said "no" therefore it was fine.

You'd be staggered at the number of posters who leapfrogged over the distressed possible victim to leap to the defence of the totally anonymous man who had done this to her - to the extent of rewriting the facts as described by the OP to make the woman out to be a liar - totally without any evidence whatsoever.

15 people thanked the post that effectively called her a liar.

And at least one was a Mod.

orubiru

Kev W wrote: »

I think you've misunderstood what rape culture means. That rape culture exists isn't to say that for example "Irish culture is a rape culture". It's a culture within our culture, in the sense of "sports culture" or "geek culture". It's not saying that society views rape as acceptable but that there are those within society that do and that aspects of our media and our law can be seen by these people to prop up that belief.

Here it just seems like you are trying to justify the use of terminology that is obviously controversial and obviously gets a rise out of people.

Rape is widely regarded as unacceptable within our society within the media and within the law.

I'm sorry but the use of the phrase "rape culture" is clearly for shock value and it is clearly used to paint a picture of a society that somehow seeks to normalize rape and sexual assault.

Are you seriously claiming that the use, and connotations, of the phrase "Geek Culture" is in any way similar to the use of the phrase "Rape Culture"?

Geek Culture
Sports Culture
Rape Culture

Let's not pretend that when people use these terms that Rape Culture is being used in the same sense as the other two.

Cold War Kid

frostyjacks wrote: »

Anti-man and anti-heterosexual, I would add. If you're a woman or gay (or both), you're immediately put on a pedestal, made to feel like you've overcame some kind of barrier to be where you are today. How can you compete with that?

Society is anti-heterosexual? Ah here...

Gay people being put on a pedestal/treated as overcoming adversity by some, does not automatically = anti heterosexual. It's possible to have that view on gay people and not have a problem with hetero people.

hatrickpatrick

B0jangles wrote: »

Attack of the straw feminists!

http://www.harkavagrant.com/?id=341

But seriously, none of feminists I know subscribe to the simplistic viewpoint you describe.

Again, my views on feminism have come both from people I know IRL, from the media, and from the largest Feminist forum on the internet, Reddit's /r/Feminism, /r/AskFeminists, /r/SRSDiscussion and /r/Sh!tRedditSays (change ! to i).

If one cannot use the largest online community for the movement as a measuring line, or vocal proponents in the media, then what can one use?

Oh and I do in fact know three feminists IRL (distant, though, thankfully) who subscribe to the "you can't be sexist against men, because privilege" and "double standards are sometimes ok, because reasons" arguments. They exist. And they are allowed, by the rest of the movement, to spout their crap in feminist spaces relatively unopposed.

sunshine and showers

Samuel Scary Urination wrote: »

You have offered nothing of any substance to contradict my statements, it would be nice if you could do so.

Honestly, the premise you're putting forward is so ridiculous that I don't even feel the need to. That's my point.

zeffabelli

kylith wrote: »

Now I could be wrong here, and I'm certainly open to being corrected, but I get the feeling that those scenes were most probably written, storyboarded, directed, filmed, edited, produced, and distributed almost entirely by men, and shown on TV channels or in cinemas owned and run by men. Where is the anti-male feminist bias there? If anything it shows that men think that female on male violence is a joke and that the male victims of violence by women is a punchline!

Once again on boards, I find myself having to explain one of the very basics of genre.

Take a person slipping on a banana peel.

The person falls. We laugh. This is comedy.

The person falls and gets hurt. No longer comedy. It's drama.

In case people haven't noticed TV is incredibly violent, people are getting hurt left right and centre, and depending on how the scene is presented we will decode it differently, though editing and directorship will largely determine the meaning.

It is impossible to draw any generalised conclusions about gender and violence on screen at this stage.

TwoShedsJackson

Samuel Scary Urination wrote: »

I'm a man, and I'm proud of that fact.

Love the way you're proud of that as if it's something you actually achieved yourself, rather than genetics. Bit like being unduly proud of where you were born, something else you had no control over.

orubiru

B0jangles wrote: »

On rape culture, there was a recent thread here on boards where a person was seeking advice on a situation where a friend had been, depending on your point of view, coerced into having sex / not actually said "no" therefore it was fine.

You'd be staggered at the number of posters who leapfrogged over the distressed possible victim to leap to the defence of the totally anonymous man who had done this to her - to the extent of rewriting the facts as described by the OP to make the woman out to be a liar - totally without any evidence whatsoever.

15 people thanked the post that effectively called her a liar.

And at least one was a Mod.

Where is the "Rape Culture" there?

Can you post a link to the thread?

B0jangles

B0jangles wrote: »

On rape culture, there was a recent thread here on boards where a person was seeking advice on a situation where a friend had been, depending on your point of view, coerced into having sex / not actually said "no" therefore it was fine.

You'd be staggered at the number of posters who leapfrogged over the distressed possible victim to leap to the defence of the totally anonymous man who had done this to her - to the extent of rewriting the facts as described by the OP to make the woman out to be a liar - totally without any evidence whatsoever.

15 people thanked the post that effectively called her a liar.

And at least one was a Mod.

I know the post you're talking about and I feel like you're purposefully leaving out a lot of information to push forward your own agenda.

Well done, you.

TheLastMohican

Could the rise of aggressive tendencies in wimmin be related to hormones?

Am talking about bulkers and hormones added to animal feed.

Just added the second sentence to appease my own low self esteem meter and deflect the usual torrent of sexist arrows from our home-grown steely and capricious malcontents.

NachoBusiness

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes, a lot of it is anti-men, but if you ever try to discuss this openly and honestly, you get shot down.

The very fact that men are shot down as you say, and immediately seen as just whinging, just shows you how endemic the problem is and ultimately, just how successful radical feminists were in what they set out to do. The likes of Dworkin and Greer spewed their venom for decades and here today we see the consequences of it. I would say the vast majority of men don't really give it a second thought how they are seen by society, in comparison to women, they just accept it at this stage and most likely see nothing wrong with it.

Anyone remember the tweets about short guys which were collected over a two or three months period a few years back? To me that was indicative of much more than just how some women see short guys. It said more about how these women clearly felt there were was little or nothing wrong with having those opinions. That they were perfectly fine. Speaking about men as if their were nothing but dirt just because they are short and no doubt the majority of them regularly wear high heels when out. The irony I suppose must have been lost on them.

Iseedeadpixels

TwoShedsJackson wrote: »

Love the way you're proud of that as if it's something you actually achieved yourself, rather than genetics. Bit like being unduly proud of where you were born, something else you had no control over.

I think he meant it as he is proud to be male, the same as someone who is gay would say gay and proud.....I think.

Kev W

Iseedeadpixels wrote: »

So a rape minority then?The way feminists bleat about rape culture they try make it out that the whole western world believes it is acceptable. I notice how you and the other poster ignored the 3 other facts and used rape centres as a reason to say we do have a culture of rape, if we in anyway had a rape culture we wouldn't have centres full of well trained people to help the vicitims, I await your reply full of spoofery :rolleyes:

Please show me one example of a feminist claiming the whole western world thinks rape is acceptable. If you're just going to bang on about the straw feminists in your head I shan't be bothered with you any longer.

I've explained rape culture to the best of my ability and you just don't seem to be able to comprehend it. That's your problem, not mine.

Just in case though, in big, easy to read letters:

RAPE CULTURE IS NOT AN ENTIRE PLANET OF PEOPLE THINKING RAPE IS OK.

OBVIOUSLY MOST PEOPLE DON'T THINK THAT.

LITERALLY NOBODY IS ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THAT ARGUMENT FROM YOU.

WE'RE SOMEONE TO COME HERE CLAIMING WE LIVE ON THE PLANET OF THE RAPISTS, YOU AND I WOULD ACTUALLY BE ON THE SAME SIDE OF THE ARGUMENT AGAINST THEM.

CLEAR?

B0jangles

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Again, my views on feminism have come both from people I know IRL, from the media, and from the largest Feminist forum on the internet, Reddit's /r/Feminism, /r/AskFeminists, /r/SRSDiscussion and /r/Sh!tRedditSays (change ! to i).

If one cannot use the largest online community for the movement as a measuring line, or vocal proponents in the media, then what can one use?

Oh and I do in fact know three feminists IRL (distant, though, thankfully) who subscribe to the "you can't be sexist against men, because privilege" and "double standards are sometimes ok, because reasons" arguments. They exist. And they are allowed, by the rest of the movement, to spout their crap in feminist spaces relatively unopposed.

You're citing Reddit as a source?

In the media? Guess who the media love to put forward; the most controversial click-baitiest people they can find!

I'm sorry you know 3 intolerant asses; every movement has them. Thankfully they are a minority, but as an aside surely you agree they are entitled to express their opinion however distasteful it is to you - Freedom of Speech and all that?

One eyed Jack

The Corinthian wrote: »

Are you suggesting that feminist groups campaigning alongside Christian groups on issues such as prostitution means that feminism has been turned into a Christian movement? Otherwise you really can't pass the buck there.

I think mariaalice was suggesting that our current laws have their origins in Biblical times moreso than any correlation between feminists and Christians. Women were infantilised and perceived to be servile to men, and while the correlation nowadays between religious fervour and feminism is an interesting one, I think it's more accurate to point out that there are many female sex workers who consider themselves feminist who suggest that the new EU legislation is unfair to them as female sex workers.

Not a peep out of feminist sex workers though about the welfare of male sex workers, never has been up until very recently, and even then it's barely any more than a token inclusory amendment at the end of a paragraph all about the welfare of female sex workers!

blatantrereg

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

But the effect of it is to punish men unfairly in some cases, or show women unfair lenience in others. So while the premise of it may or may not come from a misogynist standpoint, the actual tangible effects of it amount to sexism against men. And that needs to be condemned.

It is about having both the rights and responsibilities of equality not just the former.

Well we agree that men and women are treated differently, and that it would be better that both groups are treated the same. We just seem to be looking at it from different angles. I think it's better to be part of the group that is seen as properly adult. Even if that often means harsher treatment, that's better than being the object of subtle but ubiquitous belittlement.

Iseedeadpixels

Kev W wrote: »

Please show me one example of a feminist claiming the whole western world thinks rape is acceptable. If you're just going to bang on about the straw feminists in your head I shan't be bothered with you any longer.

I've explained rape culture to the best of my ability and you just don't seem to be able to comprehend it. That's your problem, not mine.

Just in case though, in big, easy to read letters:

RAPE CULTURE IS NOT AN ENTIRE PLANET OF PEOPLE THINKING RAPE IS OK.

OBVIOUSLY MOST PEOPLE DON'T THINK THAT.

LITERALLY NOBODY IS ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THAT ARGUMENT FROM YOU.

WE'RE SOMEONE TO COME HERE CLAIMING WE LIVE ON THE PLANET OF THE RAPISTS, YOU AND I WOULD ACTUALLY BE ON THE SAME SIDE OF THE ARGUMENT AGAINST THEM.

CLEAR?

I see you brought the caps from the last thread, how anyone can take you serious on here or in real life I don't know I will use what the previous poster said about mixing rape culture with geek or sport culture shows how laughable you are., I see you can't be bothered with me so I'll wish you all the best good sir or ma'am. Also I have highlighted 2 bits of victim blaming your horrid anti-man

RDM_83 again

kylith wrote: »

Unfortunetly it probably does boil down to the fact that the driver is usually male, and that there have been cases of taxi drivers raping drunk passengers, or driving women to remote locations and attacking them. "I'll get into a taxi with a strange man" unfortunately isn't much of a solution when your fear is that you will be raped.

I'm not saying it's common, but I am saying that it happens, and that to dismiss a worry of something that is known to happen as paranoia is unfair.

This.

How come its ok to be afraid because of gender but nationality/culture/ethnicity would be a source of outrage?Like if someone is coming from a culture/area with an actually misygonistic society and legitimitately argue has a "rape culture" surely they are more of a risk than just being male?

The Randy Riverbeast

frostyjacks wrote: »

Anti-man and anti-heterosexual, I would add. If you're a woman or gay (or both), you're immediately put on a pedestal, made to feel like you've overcame some kind of barrier to be where you are today. How can you compete with that?

Here's a tip, if you don't want gay people being "put on a pedestal" you could always try not complaining about them or trying to prevent them having the same rights as everyone else.

Paramite Pie

Kev W wrote: »

However the fact that you can feel so safe in a male stranger's car that you can dismiss any feeling of unease in that situation as paranoia is an excellent example of male privelege.

Privilege:

a special right, advantage, or immunity granted or available only to a particular person or group of people.


It's natural for someone to fear a stranger who is physically stronger than them, therefore women may be more weary of strange men because of logic. Men are naturally physically stronger so we're more likely to feel confident in our ability to defend ourselves against another male.

That's not something that society granted us, it's a biological advantage. Therefore I don't find the word 'privilege' suitable as it implies a societal structural advantage, not an innate one.

I'm not against the concept, but the terminology is counter-productive.

Kev W

Iseedeadpixels wrote: »

I see you brought the caps from the last thread, how anyone can take you serious on here or in real life I don't know, I see you can't be bothered with me so I'll wish you all the best good sir or ma'am. Also I have highlighted 2 bits of victim blaming your horrid anti-man

You literally don't know what victim blaming is.

Son Of A Vidic

Samuel Scary Urination wrote: »

Is the Western World anti-man?

I'm not too sure tbh, but as a heterosexual man I certainly am anti-man.

Iseedeadpixels

Kev W wrote: »

You literally don't know what victim blaming is.

You literally don't know what sarcasm/humour is.

frozenfrozen

why is it anti-man, not uncle-man?

Kev W

Iseedeadpixels wrote: »

You literally don't know what sarcasm is.

If you thought you were being sarcastic then neither do you.

Neither of you know what literally actually is.

zeffabelli

B0jangles wrote: »

On rape culture, there was a recent thread here on boards where a person was seeking advice on a situation where a friend had been, depending on your point of view, coerced into having sex / not actually said "no" therefore it was fine.

You'd be staggered at the number of posters who leapfrogged over the distressed possible victim to leap to the defence of the totally anonymous man who had done this to her - to the extent of rewriting the facts as described by the OP to make the woman out to be a liar - totally without any evidence whatsoever.

15 people thanked the post that effectively called her a liar.

And at least one was a Mod.

Well to use your example, let's call it rape hysteria, where perception is everything.... It's rape because I say it is.... Consensual reality aside and who gives a **** if I ruin someone's life over my re writing of history.... Because I didn't know how to assert myself so I quietly conceded even though I didn't articulate my discomfort.... So yeah it was rape.