Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread IV

total former · 18-08-2015 11:30AM

flangemeistro wrote: »

There's not much to dispute or argue with there really, only if he's giving Healy the benefit of the doubt to be fit then why isn't he giving Trimble the same privilege?

Because that's what Joe will do.

total former · 18-08-2015 11:32AM

Buer wrote: »

Just to provoke some debate, Ruaidhri O'Connor made this selection today based on what we've seen to date and the current status (including injury situation for someone like Trimble who he says rumours suggest his recovery is progressing slowly and he was omitted from squad update yesterday):

Backs (14): Rob Kearney, Dave Kearney, Simon Zebo, Keith Earls, Tommy Bowe, Luke Fitzgerald, Robbie Henshaw, Jared Payne, Ian Madigan, Paddy Jackson, Johnny Sexton, Isaac Boss, Conor Murray, Eoin Reddan.

Forwards (17): Rory Best, Sean Cronin, Richardt Strauss, Cian Healy, Jack McGrath, Michael Bent, Mike Ross, Nathan White, Devin Toner, Paul O'Connell (capt), Donnacha Ryan, Iain Henderson, Jordi Murphy, Jamie Heaslip, Sean O'Brien, Peter O'Mahony, Chris Henry.

That leaves out Kilcoyne, Moore, Cave, Trimble and Jones among others. I think that could be pretty close to having the squad nailed, to be honest.

Well, assuming Trimble and Moore are injured, I think that's pretty much spot on.

The big loser would be Jones, but I think after Saturday, it's a straight shootout between he and Zebo, one or other will go but not both.

flangemeistro · 18-08-2015 11:33AM

total former wrote: »

Because that's what Joe will do.

I was on about the guy who wrote the column not Joe.
And i don't think there's any mystic megs left in here thinking they know what Joe is going to do after the full squad being released.

molloyjh · 18-08-2015 11:39AM

total former wrote: »

Well, assuming Trimble and Moore are injured, I think that's pretty much spot on.

The big loser would be Jones, but I think after Saturday, it's a straight shootout between he and Zebo, one or other will go but not both.

I reckon Moore will be good to go. The injury news on him has been that he was there or thereabouts for Saturday but they were being precautionary. I expect him to play against Ulster and then be in the squad for Wales.

I think Trimble is in trouble. Good and all as he is on form, and as much and all as Joe likes him, you're talking less than 40 minutes game time in the last 10 months. And we still don't really know when he'll be fit to play again. If he's not good to go against Wales then he has to lose out. And even if he is, there are others who deserve/need game time (Dave and Luke given Dave hardly had much time last week and Luke was only just back in contact training last week). Trying to balance their need for game time and Trimbles could be awkward.

Zebos ability to play the wing and FB, plus the fact we've seen him stepping in a good bit as first receiver both in the 6 Nations and the warm-ups, surely has him ahead of Jones at this stage?

total former · 18-08-2015 11:42AM

flangemeistro wrote: »

I was on about the guy who wrote the column not Joe.
And i don't think there's any mystic megs left in here thinking they know what Joe is going to do after the full squad being released.

It's not "thinking they know", Joe has publicly stated that Healy will be in the squad even if he doesn't play a minute of the warm-up games.

total former · 18-08-2015 11:45AM

molloyjh wrote: »

I reckon Moore will be good to go. The injury news on him has been that he was there or thereabouts for Saturday but they were being precautionary. I expect him to play against Ulster and then be in the squad for Wales.

I think Trimble is in trouble. Good and all as he is on form, and as much and all as Joe likes him, you're talking less than 40 minutes game time in the last 10 months. And we still don't really know when he'll be fit to play again. If he's not good to go against Wales then he has to lose out. And even if he is, there are others who deserve/need game time (Dave and Luke given Dave hardly had much time last week and Luke was only just back in contact training last week). Trying to balance their need for game time and Trimbles could be awkward.

Zebos ability to play the wing and FB, plus the fact we've seen him stepping in a good bit as first receiver both in the 6 Nations and the warm-ups, surely has him ahead of Jones at this stage?

I think Trimble and DK will start against Wales; if Trimble lasts the game he's right back in the mix, anything less and he's in trouble (or if he doesn't make it at all, he's gone). McFadden might get the bench spot if he's still in contention, he did fine against Wales in the first match, but it's hard to know how Joe rates him at this stage.

molloyjh · 18-08-2015 11:47AM

total former wrote: »

I think Trimble and DK will start against Wales; if Trimble lasts the game he's right back in the mix, anything less and he's in trouble (or if he doesn't make it at all, he's gone). McFadden might get the bench spot if he's still in contention, he did fine against Wales in the first match, but it's hard to know how Joe rates him at this stage.

Just on Trimble this seems to be the latest update. And it's fairly vague.

Irish Times wrote:

There is some positive news emanating from camp regarding Ulster and Ireland winger Andrew Trimble, who injured his foot in the first game of the pre-World Cup series against Wales in Cardiff.

Trimble, who had a scan on the injury last week, is said to be optimistic about the progress of his rehab. No time limit has been put on his return but news is positive....

Although a first scan came back inconclusive, a second established that he had bruised the bone and would not be out for the long term.

Where do you see Fitz fitting in?

connachta · 18-08-2015 12:07PM

molloyjh wrote: »

I reckon Moore will be good to go. The injury news on him has been that he was there or thereabouts for Saturday but they were being precautionary. I expect him to play against Ulster and then be in the squad for Wales.

Wales ok, Ulster is too risky and quite pointless. 2 friendly international tests + Roumania and Canada are enough to warn up, why would you rush him back..

total former · 18-08-2015 12:08PM

molloyjh wrote: »

Just on Trimble this seems to be the latest update. And it's fairly vague.

Where do you see Fitz fitting in?

A bruised bone is one of those things that could heal in a few days or drag on for weeks.

I honestly don't know re: Fitz. If Earls is the preferred back-up centre, that makes his life harder. If one of Zebo and Jones goes and assuming Bowe does too, then it puts Trimble, Fitz, McFadden and DK in the mix for two spots. McFadden would be the outside bet, but any one of the other three could miss out and I wouldn't be surprised.

dub_skav · 18-08-2015 12:11PM

That question is answered by selecting your starting left winger.
Versatility is all well and good for squad members and in match changes, but you need the best 1st XV possible.

So, at this stage who is Joe's first choice 11; Fitz, Zebo, Trimble, DK, McFadden? In my opinion, the rest falls into place once that question is answered.

blackdog1 · 18-08-2015 12:13PM

total former wrote: »

A bruised bone is one of those things that could heal in a few days or drag on for weeks.

I honestly don't know re: Fitz. If Earls is the preferred back-up centre, that makes his life harder. If one of Zebo and Jones goes and assuming Bowe does too, then it puts Trimble, Fitz, McFadden and DK in the mix for two spots. McFadden would be the outside bet, but any one of the other three could miss out and I wouldn't be surprised.

If it's just a bruised bone they'll give him a shot of painkiller into the spot on match day and keep his training off his feet ie bike and pool I'd imagine.

.ak · 18-08-2015 12:16PM

Well I think Trimble would be first choice if fit.

Second choice? Really had to tell if Zebo or Fitz would be there... Obviously he's a fan of both tho.

.ak · 18-08-2015 12:17PM

blackdog1 wrote: »

If it's just a bruised bone they'll give him a shot of painkiller into the spot on match day and keep his training off his feet ie bike and pool I'd imagine.

A bruised bone is generally a stress fracture though, so as you say there'll be a lot of non-impact training going his way, which I think will go against him. Nothing replicates running/sprinting.

Witheringeye · 18-08-2015 12:32PM

total former wrote: »

A bruised bone is one of those things that could heal in a few days or drag on for weeks.

I honestly don't know re: Fitz. If Earls is the preferred back-up centre, that makes his life harder. If one of Zebo and Jones goes and assuming Bowe does too, then it puts Trimble, Fitz, McFadden and DK in the mix for two spots. McFadden would be the outside bet, but any one of the other three could miss out and I wouldn't be surprised.

Yeah that seems the likely scenario.

For arguments sake lets look at all the scenarios. 2 assumptions: Zebo travels ahead of jones. McFadden is out of the running
Scenario 1 (most likely): Trimble is out. Fitz, bowe and DK travel

2: Trimble & bowe in. DK vs Fitz

3 Trimble fitz and DK in. Bowe loses out

vienne86 · 18-08-2015 12:37PM

Witheringeye wrote: »

Yeah that seems the likely scenario.

For arguments sake lets look at all the scenarios. 2 assumptions: Zebo travels ahead of jones. McFadden is out of the running
Scenario 1 (most likely): Trimble is out. Fitz, bowe and DK travel

2: Trimble & bowe in. DK vs Fitz

3 Trimble fitz and DK in. Bowe loses out

I find it hard to imagine Bowe being left at home, even though it is a while since we have seen him really sparkle.

flangemeistro · 18-08-2015 12:45PM

vienne86 wrote: »

I find it hard to imagine Bowe being left at home, even though it is a while since we have seen him really sparkle.

He was non existent Saturday, even Fitz poor performance was more memorable than his non performance.
I was a huge Bowe fan but he really hasn't shown anything of note in the last 18 month's.
If Joe truly has no time for sentiment or reputations then Bowe should get a wake up call.

Witheringeye · 18-08-2015 12:46PM

vienne86 wrote: »

I find it hard to imagine Bowe being left at home, even though it is a while since we have seen him really sparkle.

Yeah it's the least likely situation, and at this stage highly improbable. But I think if Trimble had stayed fit, there's a chance himself and DK could have brought as the two right wings

Noopti · 18-08-2015 12:49PM

I think we could well see Moore and White play against Wales. Depending on how Moore gets on against Ulster he could start, with White on the bench.

White made a good impression against Scotland. Moore does need to have a good game(s) I feel, to not only prove his fitness but also show he is in form. It has been said a few times already by the coaching staff, Easterby being one, that they will not simply be picking on reputation. So Moore 100% has to prove he is fit and on form.

awec · 18-08-2015 01:20PM

Our first choice 15 will be:

1. Healy / McGrath
2. Best
3. Ross
4. Toner
5. POC
6. POM
7. SOB
8. Heaslip
9. Murray
10. Sexton
11. ??
12. Henshaw
13. Payne
14. Bowe
15. Kearney

16. Strauss / Cronin
17. Healy / McGrath
18. Moore
19. Henderson
20. Henry
21. Reddan
22. Jackson / Madigan
23. ??

Every player mentioned above is 100% going if they are fit. Bowe is not going to be left behind, not a chance.

I suspect that of the 2 question marks above and the other 8 open positions that there is really only a question about one or two of those.

18-08-2015 01:22PM

You spelt Heaslip wrong

Witheringeye · 18-08-2015 01:26PM

awec wrote: »

Our first choice 15 will be:

1. Healy / McGrath
2. Best
3. Ross
4. Toner
5. POC
6. POM
7. SOB
8. Heaslip
9. Murray
10. Sexton
11. ??
12. Henshaw
13. Payne
14. Bowe
15. Kearney

16. Strauss / Cronin
17. Healy / McGrath
18. Moore
19. Henderson
20. Henry
21. Reddan
22. Jackson / Madigan
23. ??

Every player mentioned above is 100% going if they are fit. Bowe is not going to be left behind, not a chance.

I suspect that of the 3 question marks above and the other 8 open positions that there is really only a question about one or two of those.

No you're right he's not going to miss the 31. But I don't think he's a guaranteed starter anymore. DK and a fit Trimble could put serious pressure on him

awec · 18-08-2015 01:29PM

Witheringeye wrote: »

No you're right he's not going to miss the 31. But I don't think he's a guaranteed starter anymore. DK and a fit Trimble could put serious pressure on him

Our best wing partnership is Trimble on the left and Bowe on the right IMO. If Trimble manages fitness that is what I suspect we'll be hoping to field for the big games.

Witheringeye · 18-08-2015 01:34PM

awec wrote: »

Our best wing partnership is Trimble on the left and Bowe on the right IMO. If Trimble manages fitness that is what I suspect we'll be hoping to field for the big games.

That is very tasty looking I'll admit, but I don't see joe going for it. Joe's been vocal before about how he prefers his left wingers to be left footed and vice versa either the right. It seems like fitz and Zebo are being groomed for 11 and bowe and Trimble for 14 with DK being the guy who can switch between both

Buer · 18-08-2015 01:45PM

Witheringeye wrote: »

No you're right he's not going to miss the 31. But I don't think he's a guaranteed starter anymore. DK and a fit Trimble could put serious pressure on him

I think he is but this is his last tournament as such and rightly so. He's starting to get on for a winger now. Can see him being out of the team entirely by the end of 2016 unless he turns back the clock.

awec · 18-08-2015 01:47PM

Buer wrote: »

I think he is but this is his last tournament as such and rightly so. He's starting to get on for a winger now. Can see him being out of the team entirely by the end of 2016 unless he turns back the clock.

Agreed. I suspect he'll be under a lot of pressure for his Ulster place in a year or two too, but right now he's still a guaranteed starter for Ireland cause he has more than enough credit in the bank to make up for any dip in form at the moment.

Awesomeness · 18-08-2015 01:54PM

If Zebo or Fitz start on the wing does that rule the other out of the 23 spot or has Joe changed his mind on having 3 left footers in the back 3 if Bowe gets injured

Yeah_Right · 18-08-2015 02:00PM

I don't think Bowe is a guaranteed starter any more. In the squad yes but he needs to lift his game to keep his starting spot.

molloyjh · 18-08-2015 02:05PM

Yeah_Right wrote: »

I don't think Bowe is a guaranteed starter any more. In the squad yes but he needs to lift his game to keep his starting spot.

I'm not sure he should be, but I think he will be.

RobbieRuns · 18-08-2015 02:06PM

I think that he will be.......

Witheringeye · 18-08-2015 02:08PM

Awesomeness wrote: »

If Zebo or Fitz start on the wing does that rule the other out of the 23 spot or has Joe changed his mind on having 3 left footers in the back 3 if Bowe gets injured

Yeah I think DK has a very good shot at the 23 jersey if jones doesn't travel

Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread IV

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