The 2015 All Ireland Senior Football Championship

2moreMinutes · 12-08-2015 10:12AM

Considering the ban seems to be for "misconduct.....discrediting the Association" (per RTE), it's fair as that's the ban allowed for under that rule.

If it was simply for diving or feigning injury, yes, it would be excessive as the ban is far in excess of the punishment stated in the rules.

Just because application of the rules may be inconsistent doesn't mean it's incorrect or scandalous.

BonnieSituation · 12-08-2015 10:14AM

Ceist_Beag wrote: »

Posted below over on the dark arts thread, agree Bonnie, completely scandalous.

It is already covered in the rulebook - diving is a yellow card offence - see GAA Rules & Regulations, point 4 under Cautionable Infractions (Yellow Cards) - 4. To attempt to achieve an advantage by feigning a foul or injury.

Introducing a retrospective 8 week ban for a yellow card offence is madness of the highest order and complete populism on behalf of the CCCC, if true! It sets a very dangerous precedent.

But not precedent enough to punish Shields etc.

It's mind-boggling. Duffy was standing right in front of him when it happened and took no action on McCann and still decided to issue the red card.

bucketybuck wrote: »

I have zero sympathy for him and hope he gets every second of the 8 weeks.

Come on? You think that an 8-week ban is justifiable for this and yet Liam Rushe only gets a one-game ban for the strike on MoShan?

Kevin Keane will likely get a one-game ban as well for his strike on Michael Murphy?

Do you think that Michael Shields should be retrospectively punished as well? Or JOD?

The justification for some of the discplinary procedures in the GAA is beyond common-sense.

threeball wrote: »

Nope and the more we see of this the better. The level of cheating creeping into the GAA at the moment is alarming. Kids imitate their hero's and pretty soon you'll have young lads up and down the country flinging themselves to the ground left right and centre. It needs to be absolutely eradicated now and this is the only way it can be done as managers won't tackle the problems themselves.

You think that this is going to influence kids up and down the country?

This over egging the influence of these players on children is mental. I recall influence on me as a kid from from the likes of Paul Curran, john O'Leary, Peter Canavan, Páidí Ó Sé etc. The great players influence. Diving chancers don't.

And if kids start flinging themselves to the ground as a result of this then it is the responsibility of parents and coaches and referees to stamp it out. Not Tiernan McCann, not Michael Sheields and not James O'Donoghue!

bucketybuck · 12-08-2015 10:15AM

Ceist_Beag wrote: »

What you think isn't really relevant though. Rules are rules and what he did is already covered in the rule book. There is no place for the CCCC in acting like this at the AI semi final stage. As robbie said, if there is a concern here, bring in a new rule at the start of next season. Hitting a lad with an 8 week ban for a yellow card offence, no matter how pathetic the offence is, is just not on and a terrible decision by the CCCC. I fully expect Tyrone to vigorously fight this but it's completely unfair that their preparations for an AI semi final are now disrupted by this carry on.

I couldn't give a toss about whether you think the CCCC have the authority to do this or whether there is some procedural violation. In my opinion it was a far greater crime to bring the game into disrepute in such a cowardly fashion as McCann did and as such I hope he gets everything the CCCC can give him.

Whine and moan all you want about legalese and unfair sanctions, those complaints pale into insignificance against the pathetic and cowardly actions shown on the field by what is supposed to be a grown man.

bucketybuck · 12-08-2015 10:17AM

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Come on? You think that an 8-week ban is justifiable for this and yet Liam Rushe only gets a one-game ban for the strike on MoShan?

Kevin Keane will likely get a one-game ban as well for his strike on Michael Murphy?

Do you think that Michael Shields should be retrospectively punished as well? Or JOD?

Whataboutery whataboutery whataboutery. We wouldn't let an eight year old excuse his actions by pointing at others yet it seems to be the only defence offered in these cases.

BonnieSituation · 12-08-2015 10:19AM

bucketybuck wrote: »

Whataboutery whataboutery whataboutery. We wouldn't let an eight year old excuse his actions by pointing at others yet it seems to be the only defence offered in these cases.

it is not whataboutery.

The CCCC deems that McCann brought the game into disrepute. It did not deem that Shields did.

is that consistent? Is that acceptable?

threeball · 12-08-2015 10:24AM

BonnieSituation wrote: »

But not precedent enough to punish Shields etc.

It's mind-boggling. Duffy was standing right in front of him when it happened and took no action on McCann and still decided to issue the red card.

Come on? You think that an 8-week ban is justifiable for this and yet Liam Rushe only gets a one-game ban for the strike on MoShan?

Kevin Keane will likely get a one-game ban as well for his strike on Michael Murphy?

Do you think that Michael Shields should be retrospectively punished as well? Or JOD?

The justification for some of the discplinary procedures in the GAA is beyond common-sense.

You think that this is going to influence kids up and down the country?

This over egging the influence of these players on children is mental. I recall influence on me as a kid from from the likes of Paul Curran, john O'Leary, Peter Canavan, Páidí Ó Sé etc. The great players influence. Diving chancers don't.

And if kids start flinging themselves to the ground as a result of this then it is the responsibility of parents and coaches and referees to stamp it out. Not Tiernan McCann, not Michael Sheields and not James O'Donoghue!

People don't castigate their own so relying on parents managers and all the rest to keep it in check is fantasy. Referees have to be certain you're not feigning and that won't happen.
And if you don't think kids are influenced spend 2 minutes watching kids having a soccer game amongst themselves when you next get a chance. the amount of throwing themselves about and crying for frees in a kickabout among mates is genuinely ridiculous but of course this just happened out of nowhere, they were never influenced by their premiership hero's.

threeball · 12-08-2015 10:26AM

BonnieSituation wrote: »

it is not whataboutery.

The CCCC deems that McCann brought the game into disrepute. It did not deem that Shields did.

is that consistent? Is that acceptable?

In every decision ever made there is a tipping point where something has to be done. Hopefully this is it and we see the same doled out to everyone who cheats from this point on. It doesn't matter where it starts, it only matters that it continues.

BonnieSituation · 12-08-2015 10:31AM

threeball wrote: »

In every decision ever made there is a tipping point where something has to be done. Hopefully this is it and we see the same doled out to everyone who cheats from this point on. It doesn't matter where it starts, it only matters that it continues.

Then let this be the tipping point where we say enough is enough and then start it off from the SF onwards.

Retroactively punishing one player just because of the furore over it being bigger than someone elses is mental.

---

My brother is currently playing U16 in South Dublin. I've seen a bit alright over the years but in fairness the referees aren't being bought as easy as you would like to think. There's a zero-tolerance policy in my brothers club for it. (But his coach is rather special in how he approaches things)

bucketybuck · 12-08-2015 10:35AM

BonnieSituation wrote: »

it is not whataboutery.

The CCCC deems that McCann brought the game into disrepute. It did not deem that Shields did.

is that consistent? Is that acceptable?

Of course its whataboutery.

"You didn't punish him so why are you punishing me?"

McCanns actions can be judged on their own merits, what happened to a different player need not be considered any sort of binding precedent. If you are concerned about the consistency of the CCCC thats for another thread, but in and of itself the McCann case can be dealt with independent of any other incidents.

BonnieSituation · 12-08-2015 10:37AM

bucketybuck wrote: »

Of course its whataboutery.

"You didn't punish him so why are you punishing me?"

McCanns actions can be judged on their own merits, what happened to a different player need not be considered any sort of binding precedent. If you are concerned about the consistency of the CCCC thats for another thread, but in and of itself the McCann case can be dealt with independent of any other incidents.

Mother of Jesus.

Is thre some sort blind dislike of Tyrone or adoration of Cork and Kerry that I'm missing here?

bucketybuck · 12-08-2015 10:38AM

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Mother of Jesus.

Is thre some sort blind dislike of Tyrone or adoration of Cork and Kerry that I'm missing here?

:rolleyes:

Thats right, it must be the view of a bitter Tyrone hater, it couldn't be anything else. :rolleyes:

CurryFlavoured · 12-08-2015 10:39AM

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Any one else (barring Tyrone lads) think the 8-week charge for McCann is a little OTT?

http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2015/0812/720713-eight-week-ban-proposed-for-tiernan-mccann/

Scandalous.

Maybe but I'm glad they've put down a marker, it was a pathetic attempt at getting your man sent off. Blatant cheating and bad for the game.

You have to remember it's basically only a 1-2 game ban as well, '8 weeks' sounds worse than it is. On that point, the whole 'weeks' ban is dumb, just ban people for a certain amount of games. You could get lucky and have an 8 week ban make you miss one game, the next guy might miss 5 or 6 in that time.

BonnieSituation · 12-08-2015 10:43AM

bucketybuck wrote: »

:rolleyes:

Thats right, it must be the view of a bitter Tyrone hater, it couldn't be anything else. :rolleyes:

This is black and white with no room for grey. You must be.
That's how these things work isn't it? We can't reference anything outside what we see in front of us. So going on what I see from your posts, you must be.

CurryFlavoured wrote: »

Maybe but I'm glad they've put down a marker, it was a pathetic attempt at getting your man sent off. Blatant cheating and bad for the game.

You have to remember it's basically only a 1-2 game ban as well, '8 weeks' sounds worse than it is. On that point, the whole 'weeks' ban is dumb, just ban people for a certain amount of games. You could get lucky and have an 8 week ban make you miss one game, the next guy might miss 5 or 6 in that time.

I don't think there is real issue that he is being punished it's mostly because he seems to have been targeted by the CCCC and we all know how others have been let go over the summer so a lot of people are a bit perplexed.

The length of the ban takes in an AISF and the AIF. 5 or six games at any other level don't come close.

Ceist_Beag · 12-08-2015 10:44AM

CurryFlavoured wrote: »

You have to remember it's basically only a 1-2 game ban as well, '8 weeks' sounds worse than it is. On that point, the whole 'weeks' ban is dumb, just ban people for a certain amount of games. You could get lucky and have an 8 week ban make you miss one game, the next guy might miss 5 or 6 in that time.

Only a 1-2 game ban? Jesus the lad is going into the biggest game of his life in the AI semi final and if they were good enough to win it would be on to the AI final .... and you say it's "only" a 1-2 game ban! :eek:

bucketybuck · 12-08-2015 10:47AM

Ceist_Beag wrote: »

Only a 1-2 game ban? Jesus the lad is going into the biggest game of his life in the AI semi final and if they were good enough to win it would be on to the AI final .

Good. That should serve to be an effective deterrent now shouldn't it.

CurryFlavoured · 12-08-2015 10:47AM

It's either we finally lay down a marker and be 'inconsistent' because we allowed X, Y and Z to get away with it, or we let it go, be consistent and tell players that it's ok to act this way. I'd rather option A.

WallyGUFC · 12-08-2015 10:49AM

Ceist_Beag wrote: »

What you think isn't really relevant though. Rules are rules and what he did is already covered in the rule book. There is no place for the CCCC in acting like this at the AI semi final stage. As robbie said, if there is a concern here, bring in a new rule at the start of next season. Hitting a lad with an 8 week ban for a yellow card offence, no matter how pathetic the offence is, is just not on and a terrible decision by the CCCC. I fully expect Tyrone to vigorously fight this but it's completely unfair that their preparations for an AI semi final are now disrupted by this carry on.

I'd imagine any ban would be overturned on appeal but the part in bold, surely Tyrone only have themselves to blame? Their behaviour was fairly bad, they played with fire and they might get burned.

In saying that, surely Shields and JOD should be retrospectively banned also if this ban stands.

CurryFlavoured · 12-08-2015 10:49AM

Ceist_Beag wrote: »

Only a 1-2 game ban? Jesus the lad is going into the biggest game of his life in the AI semi final and if they were good enough to win it would be on to the AI final .... and you say it's "only" a 1-2 game ban! :eek:

Calm yourself. '8 weeks' sounds a lot longer than what will probably end up as a 1 game ban. Of course he's missing a massive game but I don't pity him one bit.

keane2097 · 12-08-2015 10:51AM

Jayop wrote: »

I posted this in the Tyrone thread, may as well whack it in here.

If you're playing the "besides the Donegal match" game, you might as well point out that besides the drawn game Kerry's defence has been almost exactly as good as Tyrones.

Leaving out those two games Tyrone conceded 10.8 ppg, Kerry 11.0.

Ceist_Beag · 12-08-2015 11:15AM

WallyGUFC wrote: »

I'd imagine any ban would be overturned on appeal but the part in bold, surely Tyrone only have themselves to blame? Their behaviour was fairly bad, they played with fire and they might get burned.

Fair point. I'm no fan of the way Tyrone carry on and they do need to take a long hard look at themselves in terms of how they carry on in matches. My issue here is that I cannot see how the CCCC can recategorise an offence just because there is a huge uproar about this incident. It is clearly catered for in the rulebook as 'feigning an injury', plain and simple. The CCCC have gone out of their way to ignore this and recategorise it as 'bringing the game into disrepute' just so that they can hit him with a much heavier ban. Either an injury is feigned or it is not - are we now saying that some feigning of injury is worse than others? It's all cheating to me.
The solution here is simple imho, change the rules next year to say that feigning an injury is now categorised as bringing the game into disrepute and all players will know exactly where they stand then.

keane2097 · 12-08-2015 11:26AM

It's good that the GAA have been spurred to act on the issue of diving, this is the wrong way to go about it though obv.

A statement from Croke Park condemning diving in general and promising to address it in the rule book at the end of the season would have been much better than picking one guy (admittedly the worst offender IMO) and applying a rule to him that's never been applied to anyone else for the same behaviour before.

I'd be losing my mind if that happened to a Kerry player. The ban has no chance of standing I think.

Peist2007 · 12-08-2015 11:34AM

Another little helping hand for Kerry on their way. There have been about 5 or 6 black cards not given to Kerry players this season. Then you have one of their opponent's players being suspended before the semi final for an offence that i have seen James O'Donoghue commit this season and which Aidan O'Mahony famously committed a few years ago. Funny isnt it!

BonnieSituation · 12-08-2015 11:34AM

keane2097 wrote: »

It's good that the GAA have been spurred to act on the issue of diving, this is the wrong way to go about it though obv.

A statement from Croke Park condemning diving in general and promising to address it in the rule book at the end of the season would have been much better than picking one guy (admittedly the worst offender IMO) and applying a rule to him that's never been applied to anyone else for the same behaviour before.

I'd be losing my mind if that happened to a Kerry player. The ban has no chance of standing I think.

Hopefully not.

12-08-2015 11:35AM

Ceist_Beag wrote: »

It is clearly catered for in the rulebook as 'feigning an injury', plain and simple. The CCCC have gone out of their way to ignore this and recategorise it as 'bringing the game into disrepute' just so that they can hit him with a much heavier ban.

Um, does it not tick both boxes?

Sure if they have misapplied the rules, he'll head off to the Courts and have the matter overturned by Judicial Review.

ArmaniJeanss · 12-08-2015 11:35AM

Fairly disgusting behaviour if the GAA did this, basic principle of sport is if an infringement is covered within the rules then you punish within the rules.
By all means change the rules to make it x weeks for this offence going forward.

But to bring the disrepute charge into play for something its not intended for would be absolutely terrible.

bucketybuck · 12-08-2015 11:37AM

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

But to bring the disrepute charge into play for something its not intended for would be absolutely terrible.

Did he or did he not bring the game into disrepute?

Peist2007 · 12-08-2015 11:37AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Um, does it not tick both boxes?

Sure if they have misapplied the rules, he'll head off to the Courts and have the matter overturned by Judicial Review.

Good idea. We'll postpone the semis until after McCann's judicial review is decided upon. The Courts re-open in the first week of October

Peist2007 · 12-08-2015 11:38AM

bucketybuck wrote: »

Did he or did he not bring the game into disrepute?

He went down and feigned an injury. Clearly dealt with in the rules.

12-08-2015 11:38AM

Peist2007 wrote: »

Another little helping hand for Kerry on their way. There have been about 5 or 6 black cards not given to Kerry players this season. Then you have one of their opponent's players being suspended before the semi final for an offence that i have seen James O'Donoghue commit this season and which Aidan O'Mahony famously committed a few years ago. Funny isnt it!

The whole system is out to support Kerry.

Apparently they're gonna take another look at the Darby goal from 1982.

Peist2007 · 12-08-2015 11:39AM

Deleted User wrote: »

The whole system is out to support Kerry.

Apparently they're gonna take another look at the Darby goal from 1982.

How whimsical, you're a ticket.

Fact is Kerry have been getting decisions all season and this is the latest to help them.

The 2015 All Ireland Senior Football Championship

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