Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 3 Updated Mod Note Post 1

dcrosskid · 11-08-2015 03:32PM

carq wrote: »

Sad as it is, I can only agree with the so called ‘trolls’.

A lot on this thread are quite blinkered and windmill at any perceived criticism of the team.
For me it was a lame way to exit the championship, the game was over with 15 minutes to go , the players didn’t have the energy or know how to challenge Kilkenny once they asserted their dominance.
The ‘system’ clearly does not work. To say we are knocking on the door of an All Ireland is farcical.

We never looked like winning either game vs Tipp or KK. In fact we were trailing each game for 80% and never took a meaningful lead.
We have improved of course since last year but the gulf between winning an All Ireland is as wide as ever.

Not so sure about the highlighted bit, Waterford have jumped ahead of Clare, Limerick, Dublin & Wexford in my estimation and are equal to (and maybe ahead) of Galway at the moment pending this weekends result. That's 5 teams I reckon ye have leap-frogged this year which is huge progress in my book. The gulf between Waterford & an All Ireland is closer now than it has been since 2008 imo.

Amprodude · 11-08-2015 03:55PM

danganabu wrote: »

I see now that the Cork boys have realised they can't cut it at football or hurling that they have decided to throw their lot in with the auld 'Trolling' - a brave move to be fair to them and I wish them all the best with it, although the early evidence is not very encouraging, maybe they need a 'system'??

Jesus you Waterford boys can't take any criticism of your "superstar" hurling team. I didn't think any intercounty team was immune from criticism. I thought wrong.

danganabu · 11-08-2015 04:13PM

Amprodude wrote: »

Jesus you Waterford boys can't take any criticism of your "superstar" hurling team. I didn't think any intercounty team was immune from criticism. I thought wrong.

Thats below the belt now, I have been accused of a lot of things before but to accuse me of being a Waterford man takes the biscuit :mad:

Realt Dearg Sec · 11-08-2015 04:21PM

Jesus before Sunday all I heard was what a shower of bastards Kilkenny fans are and how much everyone prefers the cork fans and their "banter". Remind yourselves of how they reacted when it wasn't even their team that beat ye.

I decided not to come here after the game because I didn't want to be seen to be gloating. But to hear people say waterford are as far as ever from an all Ireland? Ludicrous. Ye were sceptic last year. The tactics are not much different to what Kilkenny were doing a couple of years ago, except that we had a couple of better target men. Ye need to be able to win your own fifty fifty ball in the air too, especially in the forwards. There's nothing guaranteed year to year, but it's been a year of enormous progress with very difficult financial circumstances. Some people have no gratitude. Expecting an all Ireland from the base level of last year is absolutely crazy, ye made giant leaps this year. (I know most fans here aren't saying otherwise, but a few)

And enjoy the cork fans ye all profess to love so much.

thinkstoomuch1 · 11-08-2015 04:29PM

carq wrote: »

Sad as it is, I can only agree with the so called ‘trolls’.

A lot on this thread are quite blinkered and windmill at any perceived criticism of the team.
For me it was a lame way to exit the championship, the game was over with 15 minutes to go , the players didn’t have the energy or know how to challenge Kilkenny once they asserted their dominance.
The ‘system’ clearly does not work. To say we are knocking on the door of an All Ireland is farcical.

We never looked like winning either game vs Tipp or KK. In fact we were trailing each game for 80% and never took a meaningful lead.
We have improved of course since last year but the gulf between winning an All Ireland is as wide as ever.

I'd agree and it's disappointing that any such logical valid reasons given against Waterford performance seem to thought of agenda driven when it's not
It's just honest assessments

carq · 11-08-2015 04:37PM

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Jesus before Sunday all I heard was what a shower of bastards Kilkenny fans are and how much everyone prefers the cork fans and their "banter". Remind yourselves of how they reacted when it wasn't even their team that beat ye.

I decided not to come here after the game because I didn't want to be seen to be gloating. But to hear people say waterford are as far as ever from an all Ireland? Ludicrous. Ye were sceptic last year. The tactics are not much different to what Kilkenny were doing a couple of years ago, except that we had a couple of better target men. Ye need to be able to win your own fifty fifty ball in the air too, especially in the forwards. There's nothing guaranteed year to year, but it's been a year of enormous progress with very difficult financial circumstances. Some people have no gratitude. Expecting an all Ireland from the base level of last year is absolutely crazy, ye made giant leaps this year. (I know most fans here aren't saying otherwise, but a few)

And enjoy the cork fans ye all profess to love so much.

Nobody is saying they expect an All Ireland, but I dont see where all the talk about us only being 1 or 2 players short of an All ireland winning team is coming from.
KK could have won by 10 points and it wouldn't have been unfair. The cleaned up ball for 20 minutes straight and we kept on doing the same thing.

It remains to be seen if Galway have closed the gap, But i think they are ahead of Wford in terms of competing at the top table.

We were a solid semi Final team from 98 - 2008 but never really pushed on. We are now at that level again IMO, but unless we can compete in the forwards and play more intelligent hurling we will remain at that level.

Realt Dearg Sec · 11-08-2015 04:42PM

carq wrote: »

Nobody is saying they expect an All Ireland, but I dont see where all the talk about us only being 1 or 2 players short of an All ireland winning team is coming from.
KK could have won by 10 points and it wouldn't have been unfair. The cleaned up ball for 20 minutes straight and we kept on doing the same thing.

It remains to be seen if Galway have closed the gap, But i think they are ahead of Wford in terms of competing at the top table.

My gripe would be with people who think that 1) the tactics are wrong, simple as that, and Waterford should be going man for man against everyone, and 2) the ones who say that Waterford just "don't believe in themselves". The latter is horsesh1t, lazy analysis. KK had a better team, and that was the end of it. To me, the approach for next year would have to be broadly similar to what happened this year but with more willingness to press forward in possession, and more liberty for players like Gleeson to open their shoulders. There was a sense that the players were playing strictly within the system. But the bottom line is Waterford are still a few players short. Blaming the tactics and the manager is ludicrous, it seems to imply that if ye had played in some other way ye would have won, in particular "going for it" which I assume means man-for-man. Ye would have been annihilated if ye had done that, utterly annihilated, and any analysis that says differently, in order to scapegoat the manager, is plain old wrong. If there's an all Ireland in Waterford, you already have the man in charge to get you there.

Ultimately you're right that the hurling has to get more intelligent. It has to evolve, the same system again won't work (it didn't this time of course). But the issue I would have with some posters is the belief that the type of hurling done this year wasn't intelligent to begin with, that it was mindless defensiveness for its own sake. It wasn't. And also the belief that the solution would be to play a traditional style. But neither of the teams they would be targeting to beat, KK or Tipp, play in a traditional style, by and large. If they did, Larkin would be scoring a lot more than he has this year.

dcrosskid · 11-08-2015 04:53PM

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

My gripe would be with people who think that 1) the tactics are wrong, simple as that, and Waterford should be going man for man against everyone, and 2) the ones who say that Waterford just "don't believe in themselves". The latter is horsesh1t, lazy analysis. KK had a better team, and that was the end of it. To me, the approach for next year would have to be broadly similar to what happened this year but with more willingness to press forward in possession, and more liberty for players like Gleeson to open their shoulders. There was a sense that the players were playing strictly within the system. But the bottom line is Waterford are still a few players short. Blaming the tactics and the manager is ludicrous, it seems to imply that if ye had played in some other way ye would have won, in particular "going for it" which I assume means man-for-man. Ye would have been annihilated if ye had done that, utterly annihilated, and any analysis that says differently, in order to scapegoat the manager, is plain old wrong. If there's an all Ireland in Waterford, you already have the man in charge to get you there.

Ultimately you're right that the hurling has to get more intelligent. It has to evolve, the same system again won't work (it didn't this time of course). But the issue I would have with some posters is the belief that the type of hurling done this year wasn't intelligent to begin with, that it was mindless defensiveness for its own sake. It wasn't. And also the belief that the solution would be to play a traditional style. But neither of the teams they would be targeting to beat, KK or Tipp, play in a traditional style, by and large. If they did, Larkin would be scoring a lot more than he has this year.

I don't think Gleeson has any problem with opening his shoulders, he has a tendency to take on shots from huge distances which sometimes would be better off playing in to the forwards. The Sunday Game highlighted a few balls dropped short from Sunday & a couple of the forwards were after making excellent runs only for the ball to land straight to Murphy in the KK goal. These are the mistakes that Waterford need to work on for next year along with developing their system.

Someone compared them to Donegal from 2011 & I think that is a fair comparison. They have found a way of defending well and making the game regardless of opposition competitive, now they have to find out how to get more scores on the board against the best opposition, like Donegal in 2012.

Realt Dearg Sec · 11-08-2015 04:54PM

dcrosskid wrote: »

I don't think Gleeson has any problem with opening his shoulders, he has a tendency to take on shots from huge distances which sometimes would be better off playing in to the forwards. The Sunday Game highlighted a few balls dropped short from Sunday & a couple of the forwards were after making excellent runs only for the ball to land straight to Murphy in the KK goal.

Actually fair point about Gleeson, worst example I could have picked, have said it myself numerous times that he has a habit of taking pot shots. Savage player though, should be playing further forward. In the meantime, has to show more faith in the lads inside.

carq · 11-08-2015 05:00PM

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Actually fair point about Gleeson, worst example I could have picked, have said it myself numerous times that he has a habit of taking pot shots. Savage player though, should be playing further forward. In the meantime, has to show more faith in the lads inside.

IMO Brick is not a scoring forward
Dunford up until the Semi wasnt a scoring forward, hopefully he can push on next year and use the pace to better effect.
Dillon does donkey work but is not a scoring forward.
Bennetts were cleaned out but again were outnumbered and showered with terrible ball all game.

Agreed would like to see gleeson in the forward lines next year along with maybe Tom Devine.

Would also like them to stop crazy runs up the field and look for the smart pass more.

Amprodude · 11-08-2015 06:28PM

deisedude wrote: »

Do people not remember how sh1t we were last year? The amount we have improved is nothing short of astounding

It is a good year considering where we have come from. Now if we were to go out in the same circumstances next year playing the same way I'd say different

Good but you are agreeing with me here. Waterford have improved this year but that's a small consolidation to the year that could have been for Waterford. A team like Waterford get one or two chances to strike gold and they were capable of so much more this year. The mentality of the players and some of the fans comes to mind.They feel inferior to teams like Kilkenny and Tipp. Once they break that domiinance Kk and Tipp have over them, they will win All Irelands.

TGV · 11-08-2015 06:31PM

I'm giving a view what I think of waterford just like you and others give views cork other counties and no one minds you doing it
Your entitled to your opinion
We all are
Debate any of the points I raised above if you want
I have no intention going over old debates as like I said well agree to disagree on my part you well entitled to your opinion my posts contradicts themselves but I explained this before[/quote]

Yawn......

hurler on de ditch · 11-08-2015 08:23PM

1,,S O'Keeffe 2,,S,Fives 3,,D,Fives 4,,N,Connors 5,,S,Daniels 6,,T De Burca 7,,K,Moran 8,,Jamie Barron 9,,Brick Walsh 10,P,Mahoney 11,A,Gleeson 12,Shane Bennett 13,C,Dunford, 14,M,Shanahan 15,P,Curran and thats only the players iv'e seen ,a lot of lads could be gone from the panel come January and a lot of new and maybe some lads might force their way back into the reckoning by hurling out of their skin come the resumption of the county championship,and we are still looking for a goal keeper that not only uses his skill but his brain

Jjjjjjjbarry · 11-08-2015 09:04PM

A lot of the criticism of players reactions, fan reactions etc is a bit much.
It was a very good year for this Waterford team. Last January, we all would have taken the hand off anyone who offered us the year we just had.

That said, you need to take your chances when they come and when we look back, this might have been our best chance to win an All Ireland but who knows what the future holds!!

All we can do is move forward, learn from mistakes and try to improve. We've 5 or 6 potential starting forwards next year who were still only on the under 21 team this year and everyone on that team who lost Sunday will want to get back to Croke Park again. I think the tactics played this year did a lot to bond the team and build confidence going forward. We didn't shame ourselves in any match and in the Munster final and the All Ireland semi we are talking about mistakes and missed chances which are elements that will spur players on as opposed to getting hammered off the field with confidence shattered.

When all is said and done, we were beaten by the two best teams in the country and the young Waterford players have got to witness up close exactly what they need to do next year to step it up to the next level.
Most of those players never played in a match that big before and to battle the mighty cats in Croke Park in August is as good an education as they could have asked for this year.

seananigans · 11-08-2015 09:29PM

Amprodude wrote: »

R

They had a good year but not a great year. 2015 for Waterford will be remembered as the year they were beaten by Kilkenny. A sad reality for this fine Waterford setup. Sorry but moral victories with Kilkenny and Tipp dont count as honours.

sure thats many a year, we were either beaten by kilkenny or not good enough to go far enough to be beaten by them, there was real progress this year, as mullane said today in the paper, theres pride in the jersey, he manages not to do ssomething no manager has done since before he was born and somehowhes terrible ? give me a break

only the third league title in our time puhed ourselves 6 places in the rankings and blooded an awful lot of younfellas

thats success in anyones language

Alf Tupper · 11-08-2015 10:09PM

We have made progress this year, no doubt and great credit is due to the management and players. WE owe them a lot of thanks.

However, it's cut throat at inter county level and pace is one of the main ingredients.

Jake and Philip Mahony are brilliant lads but unfortunately it's the one criteria that they lack and they have sufferd in the last few games because of it.

To me, Stephen Daniels, if fit, would be ideal at wing back.

We have a few options in the forward line, a few lads on and off the panel who could step up..

No disrespect to Barry Coughlan but we definitely need a full back that we can rely on, in temperament and every other way. Not sure what the solution is but without one we are always going to come up short because we are just robbing Peter to pay Paul when our game plan starts and ends with protecting him to the extent we have to.

Thanks again to the Management and Players for all their efforts during the year.

phkk · 12-08-2015 12:09AM

Alf Tupper wrote: »

We have made progress this year, no doubt and great credit is due to the management and players. WE owe them a lot of thanks.

However, it's cut throat at inter county level and pace is one of the main ingredients.

Jake and Philip Mahony are brilliant lads but unfortunately it's the one criteria that they lack and they have sufferd in the last few games because of it.

To me, Stephen Daniels, if fit, would be ideal at wing back.

We have a few options in the forward line, a few lads on and off the panel who could step up..

No disrespect to Barry Coughlan but we definitely need a full back that we can rely on, in temperament and every other way. Not sure what the solution is but without one we are always going to come up short because we are just robbing Peter to pay Paul when our game plan starts and ends with protecting him to the extent we have to.

Thanks again to the Management and Players for all their efforts during the year.

I wouldn't be too quick to cast aside Philip Mahony or Jake Dillon. I've actually been very impressed by Mahony particularly this year. Look at some of the KK players and tell me if they are all blessed with pace...JJ,Joyce, Tyrrell, P Walsh, T Walsh, Larkin and even Henry were never speed merchants but had skill, intelligence and could read a game which counted for more than raw pace.
BTW well done to Waterford last Sunday-ye had a great year and I have no doubt that ye have the hurlers to go on and win big things in the future

Deskjockey · 12-08-2015 01:20AM

Just watched the first half of the match there and have to say Waterford played better than I thought when at the match. They fought like dogs for each breakng ball and you'd be proud of them

Amazing to think that only two KK players scored in the first half.

Waterford gave away some terrible fouls like Gleesons sliding tackle on Richie Hogan and Walter Walsh seemed to be dragged down every time he caught the ball.

Kilkenny are such a physical team, I'm not surprised the younger players ran out of steam in the second half,hopefully a winter of beating the **** out of animal carcasses in Dawn Meats - Rocky style( or whatever strength and conditioning work that's in favour now), will help the young players push on next year.

It was mentioned that Brick hadn't scored in the championship this year, sorry as I am to say this but he looked way off the pace on Sunday, maybe Devine should have been brought on?

Maybe I won't bother looking at the second half actually and leave it at that :-)

robopaddy2 · 12-08-2015 01:29AM

Deskjockey wrote: »

It was mentioned that Brick hadn't scored in the championship this year, sorry as I am to say this but he looked way off the pace on Sunday, maybe Devine should have been brought on?

)

He may not have scored but he was phenomenal all year. Put in some unbelievable shifts during the course of the season. I said my piece on him already after the game on Sunday and what he has brought to this side and the leadership he has shown to the younger players this year.

Maybe he just hit a brick wall on Sunday as regards what he can give, excuse the pun. But Sundays game was one of the most physically demanding I've seen for a long while. A couple of seasoned KK forwards didn't get on the ball a whole pile either if you really want to analyse it. Not sure Devine would have made a difference. Wasn't the type of game any sub was going to come in and turn.

thinkstoomuch1 · 12-08-2015 08:38AM

robopaddy2 wrote: »

He may not have scored but he was phenomenal all year. Put in some unbelievable shifts during the course of the season. I said my piece on him already after the game on Sunday and what he has brought to this side and the leadership he has shown to the younger players this year.

Maybe he just hit a brick wall on Sunday as regards what he can give, excuse the pun. But Sundays game was one of the most physically demanding I've seen for a long while. A couple of seasoned KK forwards didn't get on the ball a whole pile either if you really want to analyse it. Not sure Devine would have made a difference. Wasn't the type of game any sub was going to come in and turn.

While you make some valid points worth considering this point of one of the most physical demanding games ever v kk in fairness that is expected when you play kk as they play within the rules but on the edge and correctly so this is elite sport kk won't give any team soft scores

Just look at the minor game
Joyce centre back and the awesome Leahy were very strong on the ball and in the tackle point is its in kk culture and it's in the breeding
Waterford would have been terribly naive if they expected anything less
Walsh was never going to work against kk in a forward as magnificent as he is he's weakness to he's forward game and kk are the one team that will identify and expose weakness
Just cause teams get away with it other games doesn't mean their not there
Kk knew waterford game plan was one dimensions and predicable

The talk that this system would trouble kk as you know I always disagree with that since may as Dublin two years ago played a sweeper and kk effectively and coherence dealt with it
People forget Galway three years ago played the awesome Johnny coen as a sweeper and Galway system was no different to waterford
I watched the Galway final recently to see was their a link and imo I see nothing with galway style and waterford bar Galway played more cohesion and creativity as forwards
They rattled kk in a draw with that system point is cody saw nothing new with waterford and the system like I said after tipp if tipp beat the system imagine what kk would do to it

This game was never in doubt after half time and many have acknowledged kk always had more in them, kk normally don't miss two goal chances as easy or lot score able points

Waterford deserve huge credit for putting pride honour and grace back in the jersey and I doubted mcgrath at the start however while I remain to be convinced is he the man to take waterford to an all ireland glory or the ist final in nine years I must admit he deserves credit for the season and bring in schmidt as talker was very impressive
I come from a winning mentality in posting wise and I'm impressed by schmidt in huge statement of intent for waterford

People have to be cautious in to say we done great this year but we never going beat kk and next year well improve
While I understand the concepts of thought imo it has to be balanced in it was a good year progress was made but I wouldn't call it a great year and I have this same philosophy of thought with cork and other counties in you must win things
Limerick last year some thought it was great performance v kk and it was in one sense it had admirable quality but unfortunately in top level sport it's about winning and as Cusack said in the examiner afterwards limerick lost and that's the bottom line
Waterford need to win and under twenty one is absoultey vital next year and has to be a goal next year to win and get to all ireland final as young lads from minor days need have constant progression like limerick have with their minor and recent outstanding under twenty success against the odds in year one that team to keep confidence up

The senior goal should be division one status and all ireland semi or final once under twenty one is win at the least
Munster senior imo isn't of great relevance in i said before majority munster championship don't do great in all ireland however would seem be waterford best chance making an all ireland as like any team has you should try and avoid kk if you can and while there probably not as good in the early part of the summer kk as past shows rarely loose in august and September

The brick imo I hope stays and should be full back imo
He's a tremendous servant and showed excellent skill in the waterford jersey and owes waterford or hurling in general nothing
I do belive he has a lot to offer still and he's hunger and leadership and want and desire is ideal for this team similar donal o grady for Limerick but limerick played o grady who pace was gone in forwards role when should been back this year I hope waterford don't do likewise with brick and imo he should be in a defined defence role to get the best out of him

No one can fault the commitment passion or the service from any waterford player this year but like in every set up your have to evaluate at the end of each year as cody does even he wins with kk and more so in defeat
When you loose you loose in any sport for a reason
To evolve you must first evaluate
To evaluate correctly you must have ruthless conviction
The good news for waterford is mcgrath spoke he would in he's words have a more cold calculated approach next season where needed
Sounds good and time will tell if it's just words or if it happens as he said after tipp waterford would be more dynamic up front but that didn't change

Next year is a huge challenge but the foundation has been built so if waterford learn lessons and sort full back, add two forwards, develop a correct coherent effective dynamic game with real tempo and pace that plays the width of the ptich as it's the only way to beat kk and continue to evolve then next year has promise imo
The under twenty one will play imo play a vital and intergal and significant part also of any future senior success
If I was waterford I'd let mcgrath have involved in under twenty one scene like Kinnerk had the link to under twenty one and senior with clare and Galway had their intermediate team with lot fringe senior players win all Ireland beating cork Saturday coached by the senior management Anthony cunningjham

hurler on de ditch · 12-08-2015 08:39AM

robopaddy2 wrote: »

He may not have scored but he was phenomenal all year. Put in some unbelievable shifts during the course of the season. I said my piece on him already after the game on Sunday and what he has brought to this side and the leadership he has shown to the younger players this year.

Maybe he just hit a brick wall on Sunday as regards what he can give, excuse the pun. But Sundays game was one of the most physically demanding I've seen for a long while. A couple of seasoned KK forwards didn't get on the ball a whole pile either if you really want to analyse it. Not sure Devine would have made a difference. Wasn't the type of game any sub was going to come in and turn.

3 Waterford subs left sitting there ,when all around them were fading ,i'd say some of those lads were thinking that its all a load of bol*&^ks,training all year, your going out of the championship with a whimper and still cant get a game ,yeah i'd say those lads were thrilled all right

thinkstoomuch1 · 12-08-2015 08:48AM

Alf Tupper wrote: »

We have made progress this year, no doubt and great credit is due to the management and players. WE owe them a lot of thanks.

However, it's cut throat at inter county level and pace is one of the main ingredients.

Jake and Philip Mahony are brilliant lads but unfortunately it's the one criteria that they lack and they have sufferd in the last few games because of it.

To me, Stephen Daniels, if fit, would be ideal at wing back.

We have a few options in the forward line, a few lads on and off the panel who could step up..

No disrespect to Barry Coughlan but we definitely need a full back that we can rely on, in temperament and every other way. Not sure what the solution is but without one we are always going to come up short because we are just robbing Peter to pay Paul when our game plan starts and ends with protecting him to the extent we have to.

Thanks again to the Management and Players for all their efforts during the year.

I would agree with most of that and particularly about full back and pace
Imo pace is hugely significant to beat kk as you have to play with real width and tempo as kk will always win slow games and while they have won fast pace games I think fast game only way to beat them but you need a plan a and b
I agree with your points and we seem to share the same school of thought here on full back also as while coughlan is fine player in he's own right against top teams you must have more

I always feared coughlan would be targeted after seeing tipp get two goal in league and missing two more goals chances
I think hes good player for corner back but too easily dragged out of the full back zone which I would call it the d zone as essential wise in football and hurling it's now called the d zone that primary scoring areas for opponents

crazyman · 12-08-2015 08:59AM

Deskjockey wrote: »

Just watched the first half of the match there and have to say Waterford played better than I thought when at the match. They fought like dogs for each breakng ball and you'd be proud of them

Amazing to think that only two KK players scored in the first half.

Waterford gave away some terrible fouls like Gleesons sliding tackle on Richie Hogan and Walter Walsh seemed to be dragged down every time he caught the ball.

Kilkenny are such a physical team, I'm not surprised the younger players ran out of steam in the second half,hopefully a winter of beating the **** out of animal carcasses in Dawn Meats - Rocky style( or whatever strength and conditioning work that's in favour now), will help the young players push on next year.

It was mentioned that Brick hadn't scored in the championship this year, sorry as I am to say this but he looked way off the pace on Sunday, maybe Devine should have been brought on?

Maybe I won't bother looking at the second half actually and leave it at that :-)

Having watched the game back in full also, Waterford were much closer to KK that what it seemed to be while at the game. Coming home from the game I was thinking a lot more work is needed, however after watched it back I am much happier with our performance.

In the second half there was a 10 minute spell where KK rattled off 4 points in a row, 2 of which were gifted to them via Coughlan & Sok. In that time we hit 2 bad wides and dropped 3 or 4 balls into the keepers hands. It was that spell where the game got out of reach for Waterford. And once it was out of reach we seemed to hit aimless balls into Maurice who had 2 or 3 men on him.

All in all it has been a year of great progression for the management and team. A lot learned, silverware won, but a lot more to do. Bring on next season - can't wait.

By the way, are club championships back this weekend?

thinkstoomuch1 · 12-08-2015 09:28AM

seananigans wrote: »

sure thats many a year, we were either beaten by kilkenny or not good enough to go far enough to be beaten by them, there was real progress this year, as mullane said today in the paper, theres pride in the jersey, he manages not to do ssomething no manager has done since before he was born and somehowhes terrible ? give me a break

only the third league title in our time puhed ourselves 6 places in the rankings and blooded an awful lot of younfellas

thats success in anyones language

I would not deem it a truly successful year in its about winning and results show ye lost in munster and to kk
There's been huge progress made but to say the year was a success is wrong attuide for county wanting win all ireland

As for doing what no manager done before in beating kk fair enough but that's not really a reasonable view imo to accept that fate in saying no other team done it we shouldn't

Did armagh Tyrone the Donegal think like that made the break through
Did the great clare under loughanne think like that or clare three years ago
When down beat kerry in the sixty and also recently and have superb record v kerry they didn't accept the fate
They embraced the challenge they over came it
Brian o Driscoll on the late late dismissed turbidity when he said ireland loss to new Zealand was moral victory and ireland no right to beat all blacks
Attuide usually defines sporting legacies imo

Hayes, sheedy, jbm, daly beaten kk in games so other managers have

League was good no doubt good win however tippeary o shea said league for tippeary was not their focus and kk as we know with ballyhale and retirements also no focus only in relegation battle they won
Point is kk win important games

Not taking away from the league in its good but imo must be held in balance and tandem with reality in this league was kind one off in its own right and I'd be very surprised division two team wins it next year

Even the very good waterford team won the league years ago lost to limerick in a game that were expected to win so the league isn't much relevance imo in the greater picture

For me winning an under twenty one munster next year is of greater relevance to waterford
To have imo huge significant importance on the league you would have to beat kk
Huge progress was made but I would say progress in its a journey that want to get to winning and success is the word id only use when winning is achieved

hurler on de ditch · 12-08-2015 09:32AM

crazyman wrote: »

Having watched the game back in full also, Waterford were much closer to KK that what it seemed to be while at the game. Coming home from the game I was thinking a lot more work is needed, however after watched it back I am much happier with our performance.

In the second half there was a 10 minute spell where KK rattled off 4 points in a row, 2 of which were gifted to them via Coughlan & Sok. In that time we hit 2 bad wides and dropped 3 or 4 balls into the keepers hands. It was that spell where the game got out of reach for Waterford. And once it was out of reach we seemed to hit aimless balls into Maurice who had 2 or 3 men on him.

All in all it has been a year of great progression for the management and team. A lot learned, silverware won, but a lot more to do. Bring on next season - can't wait.

By the way, are club championships back this weekend?

not so sure there was a lot learned from the Munster Final ie,And once it was out of reach we seemed to hit aimless balls into Maurice who had 2 or 3 men on him.your own words ,nothing learned

blueflame · 12-08-2015 10:28AM

TTM1 - same old rhetoric. 2015 was very successful year for a very young Waterford team - The All Ireland can only be won by one team each year, and every county puts massive resources into trying to achieve this. That is what makes a Celtic Cross so important.

Waterford came off the back of an horrendous 2014 - were dumped in Division 2 and had to play away to their three main rivals fro promotion - they were written off by everyone and placed at about 9th in the pecking order, and this include you specifically. You talk that Waterford must aim to win an U-21 title next year - that is a very narrow aim and even in Muster they will face a combination of three very strong Limerick teams and there is no room for slip ups.

Waterford Management aim for next year - consolidate Div 1 status and continue to get experience and conditioning for young players. Increase exposure and playing time for those on the periphery such as Devine, Foran, O'Halloran etc. Continue to rehabilitation of long -term injuries such as Fives, Barrett, Daniels and of course Mahony. Play Brick and Moran sparingly and use them when necessary, preserve them if possible for the championship. Build upon what we have achieved but be more expansive and start defending further up the field - keep our half of the field congested and tight which we should be capable of with 9 outfield players, and work harder to put pressure on opposition backs making clearances. They must believe they re capable of more. Do not throw out the baby with the bath water.

Waterford Supporters Aim - get behind the team and management and support them vocally and financially. Give lads a chance - Barry Coughlan has done very little wrong this year and all this tripe about he only did so because he was covered by a sweeper is "assumption" - have seen so many of those so called legend get cleaned out at one time or another. I for one, and I would have been one of his biggest critics, believe he has learned so much this year and TJ Reid's little nudged and his general craft is all part of a learning curve. Give this lad and other players a break and ignore those within and outside the county with other agendas. for years i have heard lads on Maurice's and Paudie Mahony's back and now all of a sudden their heros. Last year according to many Paudie was overhyped and contributed little , but this year when he got injured it was the end of the world, and we had no free taker. Maurice was apparently flaky and could not be counted on in the heat of championship - lads were so far off in this regard I would argue his free taking stats surpassed that of Paudie. We specialise in Waterford in division and in hanind out "the poison chalice" We need unity and direction and our young lads need time we have a superb collection of talented and motivated young hurlers and dame the begrudgers. We lost last Sunday because we made far more mistakes around the field than KK, that happens with young in-experienced sides. Loot to next year.

thinkstoomuch1 · 12-08-2015 10:40AM

blueflame wrote: »

TTM1 - same old rhetoric. 2015 was very successful year for a very young Waterford team - The All Ireland can only be won by one team each year, and every county puts massive resources into trying to achieve this. That is what makes a Celtic Cross so important.

Waterford came off the back of an horrendous 2014 - were dumped in Division 2 and had to play away to their three main rivals fro promotion - they were written off by everyone and placed at about 9th in the pecking order, and this include you specifically. You talk that Waterford must aim to win an U-21 title next year - that is a very narrow aim and even in Muster they will face a combination of three very strong Limerick teams and there is no room for slip ups.

Waterford Management aim for next year - consolidate Div 1 status and continue to get experience and conditioning for young players. Increase exposure and playing time for those on the periphery such as Devine, Foran, O'Halloran etc. Continue to rehabilitation of long -term injuries such as Fives, Barrett, Daniels and of course Mahony. Play Brick and Moran sparingly and use them when necessary, preserve them if possible for the championship. Build upon what we have achieved but be more expansive and start defending further up the field - keep our half of the field congested and tight which we should be capable of with 9 outfield players, and work harder to put pressure on opposition backs making clearances. They must believe they re capable of more. Do not throw out the baby with the bath water.

Waterford Supporters Aim - get behind the team and management and support them vocally and financially. Give lads a chance - Barry Coughlan has done very little wrong this year and all this tripe about he only did so because he was covered by a sweeper is "assumption" - have seen so many of those so called legend get cleaned out at one time or another. I for one, and I would have been one of his biggest critics, believe he has learned so much this year and TJ Reid's little nudged and his general craft is all part of a learning curve. Give this lad and other players a break and ignore those within and outside the county with other agendas. for years i have heard lads on Maurice's and Paudie Mahony's back and now all of a sudden their heros. Last year according to many Paudie was overhyped and contributed little , but this year when he got injured it was the end of the world, and we had no free taker. Maurice was apparently flaky and could not be counted on in the heat of championship - lads were so far off in this regard I would argue his free taking stats surpassed that of Paudie. We specialise in Waterford in division and in hanind out "the poison chalice" We need unity and direction and our young lads need time we have a superb collection of talented and motivated young hurlers and dame the begrudgers. We lost last Sunday because we made far more mistakes around the field than KK, that happens with young in-experienced sides. Loot to next year.

With respect though your having this attuide I'm demanding too much waterford who three years on from minor it's unreasonable to expect them win munster under twenty one

That's reasonable target for all ireland winners minor team and if you think that's harsh target then ye haven't hope win senior in senior harder to win with respect

Nonsense to be making excuses that under twenty one is filled with pitfalls and yes it hard
Seriously this is championship hurling what do you expect
This is something waterford have to win, if they fail again next year do you really think it's good confidence for senior

Did you not read Austin Gleasson interview where he said loose clare was huge affect felt like walking away
Point is under twenty one Waterford if players good as there being talked up be have win munster under twenty title
Limerick win it year one this year
Clare have won and Wexford a provincial title
No excuse waterford don't win it next year
And I'm paying waterford a compliment by expecting ye to win it in i think ye have the talent to

Wouldn't it be worse if I said I don't expect ye to
Under twenty one key for waterford
All this talk ye want to dine at the top table is well and good but you got to be winning in a grade below senior then and building momentum

robopaddy2 · 12-08-2015 10:43AM

hurler on de ditch wrote: »

3 Waterford subs left sitting there ,when all around them were fading ,i'd say some of those lads were thinking that its all a load of bol*&^ks,training all year, your going out of the championship with a whimper and still cant get a game ,yeah i'd say those lads were thrilled all right

Who would you have brought on? Bennett and curran the 2 best subs we had neither could make an impact. The system dosent suit either anyway.

letsseehere14 · 12-08-2015 10:44AM

A good year for Waterford I must say. From being stuck in division 1b and being non-competitive in Munster for a few seasons ye have now jumped past Clare Cork and ourselves for be the second team. League promotion to boot amd look forward to a tough league campaign next year against better opposition. Every game will be a test and bring ye on.
One problem is see it that ye may lack that 1 or 2 top class forwards. People talk about adapting the 'system' to improve the attacking structure and points hauls. Problem with that is by focusing more on attack, defence will suffer. Do people think there is the talent available right now to improve the attack and not weaken the packed defense? Tipp and Kilkenny scored over 20 points each, this could rise to 25 with a looser more fluid attacking 'system'. Is there room for Waterford to score that much?
Regardless, going by the showing of the other Munster counties ye are now top 4. Up to the rest to improve next year.

thinkstoomuch1 · 12-08-2015 11:02AM

http://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/austin-gleeson-we-almost-lost-interest-after-under21-defeat-to-clare-31436087.html

There's where he puts huge significant on under twenty game and he's right and I huge respect for he's admiration and honesty and that what makes him great as he's attuide compliment he's skill and he said loose clare worse munster final in was knock out and waterford had home munster final and they wanted all ireland imo and under twenty one was best chance they had

Look at this way also
Realistic wise waterford are far greater chance getting to all ireland final next year under twenty one them senior
Win munster with greatest respect you play ulster
Now it's perfectly reasonable and attainable to expect all ireland minor winning team three years ago win munster titles is it or is it not
I like many tipp fans expect tipp win this year from minor success
Yes it's tough but that championship you get no soft titles anymore now in under twenty one

Kerry minor under jack ist year under twenty one next year their goal is munster titles

Yes that minimum goal
Imo may be early year one win all ireland next year but have no doubt jack o connor kerry under twenty one team will win all ireland within he's two years term
Trust me on this this is a guaranteed like dawn break days as jack proven management with talent available and he's not thinking ah there's pitfalls here it's too narrow aim
Fact is winning all ireland is kerry under twenty one only aim

Jack isn't yet officially in place in with minors still but he's a s and c plan already place for under twenty players he's building already

Waterford have to target munster under twenty title to continue sustainable progress from minor just like Tyrone did in minor and under twenty under harte years ago make break through
That has to be the aim and Gleasson from this interview will have same school of thought
A lot talk about waterford having good chance few years senior but it's ironic if that's the case if the expectations among fans that last year for some of the under twenty ones from senior next year that aiming to win a munster under twenty one title is too narrow of an aim

No its not it's called realistic expectations based on sustainable consistent progression
What is actually imo too narrow of an aim and in fact imo quite unrealistic is to say waterford will win senior with out winning least Munster under twenty title

Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 3 ***Updated Mod Note Post 1***

Comments

Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 3 Updated Mod Note Post 1