Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 3 Updated Mod Note Post 1

Mountainlad · 10-08-2015 12:19PM

Seriously TTM, no post for 3 or 4 weeks and now about 10 in 24 hours. Would you give us a break?

thinkstoomuch1 · 10-08-2015 12:28PM

Mountainlad wrote: »

Seriously TTM, no post for 3 or 4 weeks and now about 10 in 24 hours. Would you give us a break?

I'm only giving an opinion to be fair and have said what many others said here
I feel ye have made progress and I said that and I said it many times yesterday McGrath should get a new term

This nonsense just cause you don't post before you should not again is incorrect with respect
I've always been regular poster gaa threads and waterford to be fair
I'm simply giving an opinion just like many others do

I was impressed by McGrath interview today when he said he ist year waterford didn't do much but this year done a lot
I am very impressed that he got Joel schmidt in also according to the paper to talk to the team this year
That's showing intent
A world class coach coming in to talk to an ameauteaur team is the right way forward and daly with limerick done it with padraig Harrington and the minor limerick

It shows professional standards

galwaylad14 · 10-08-2015 12:28PM

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

I wouldn't agree with your view kk were there for the taking
Nothing backs that up in kk have been ruthless against Wexford, second gear v Galway and much the same yesterday

They only went behind early but once they took control waterford were never going to win
Kk were rusty in the ist half but once they upped it in the second half they won well and missed at least two goals chances while waterford didn't create one and never looked like it

I agree concerns would remain for the future however I must give McGrath credit for this year while I was never a fan at the start of the year
He has made improvements and credit due and deserve a new term
He said today in the paper he will only take it if he gets reassurances from the board in he wants to prepare team as best he can
Fair points and he's correct

Is he the man to lead waterford to an all ireland final the ist since eight years ago or win it time will tell
There is talent in hurling there no doubt but under twenty one has to be improved next year

Waterford cant become like other teams one good year followed by not evolving
Limerick were solid team under Allen despite huge hope but never pushed on and like last year where they performed better than waterford against kk but never evolved this year

Cork after the all ireland final never pushed on
Reason were huge problems in both cork and limerick that were never solved and they believed they were close to a break thorough but weren't
Waterford are now similar imo in progress was made and credit due however still lot of questions to be answered in can they win an all ireland

I agree with you on belief and that's why it's paramount waterford win under twenty one next year
Have win one here before they imo win senior
This year under twenty one was poor and limerick proved new management year one you can win munster so vital waterford win next year munster under twenty one as win and it's ulster in a semi so an all ireland final is a realistic chance for who ever wins munster

All managers when they build a system some times they stick to it and fail to evolve, the ones that are successful are the ones that evolve
Allen and jbm done that with out realising circumstances played huge part cork and limerick success at times but the system were still in need of change and they didn't change and after one good year suffered the years after
Cork and limerick were too orthodox

Waterford have the right idea with the system as you won't beat kk one v one but have to add a counter attacking system like clare done when they won the all ireland
Do that and sort out the full back line and change two forwards they would have a great chance
But that's the next test next year to further evolve the system
Management to be fair have improved waterford defence this year however kk caused the system problem yesterday and should have at least one more goal

I think division one hurling will be a huge benefits next year and McGrath gave good interview today when he says waterford probably be favourite to go down so he realised huge challenge next year and that's good sign for waterford he's already thinking ahead
This system should not be abandoned but evolved

Nonsense to say Kilkenny were only in "3rd gear" or whatever it was yesterday. Like what does that even mean?

Does anyone seriously think Kilkenny weren't trying their best out there? They didn't play their best but it wasn't through lack of trying. If Waterford got level with 10 minutes to go would all the Kilkenny lads suddenly have started running faster and shooting more accurately or something? And why did they decide to hammer Wexford in the first game and then just decide to ease off yesterday when they were a few points in front?

I know sometimes in challenge matches towards the end the games can get very ragged and teams start going through the motions but that doesn't happen in an All Ireland semi final. Why would they take the risk of easing off instead of hammering Waterford if that's what they could have done?

I think what really happened is that Kilkenny, who were trying their best all through the match, were always a few points ahead and it seemed obvious from maybe 20 minutes to go that Waterford weren't going to be good enough to get that back and the whole atmosphere in Croke Park went very dead and it made the match seem flat but that's not to say the teams weren't trying their best.

Kilkenny didn't play all that well yesterday but they were still better than Waterford who didn't play well either.

thinkstoomuch1 · 10-08-2015 12:37PM

galwaylad14 wrote: »

Nonsense to say Kilkenny were only in "3rd gear" or whatever it was yesterday. Like what does that even mean?

Does anyone seriously think Kilkenny weren't trying their best out there? They didn't play their best but it wasn't through lack of trying. If Waterford got level with 10 minutes to go would all the Kilkenny lads suddenly have started running faster and shooting more accurately or something? And why did they decide to hammer Wexford in the first game and then just decide to ease off yesterday when they were a few points in front?

I know sometimes in challenge matches towards the end the games can get very ragged and teams start going through the motions but that doesn't happen in an All Ireland semi final. Why would they take the risk of easing off instead of hammering Waterford if that's what they could have done?

I think what really happened is that Kilkenny, who were trying their best all through the match, were always a few points ahead and it seemed obvious from maybe 20 minutes to go that Waterford weren't going to be good enough to get that back and the whole atmosphere in Croke Park went very dead and it made the match seem flat but that's not to say the teams weren't trying their best.

Kilkenny didn't play all that well yesterday but they were still better than Waterford who didn't play well either.

I agree with your concept but kk lads have said on there thread and some here kk wasn't effort was lacking with kk it's that wasn't the peak performance

Look at kk in all ireland semi finals always better in a final and naturally so
Kilkenny were poor in easy wides and missed goal chances but waterford didn't play well in the second half as kk didn't allow them to
Waterford are not the first team and won't be the last to be not allowed play by kk

The point imo was kk were not as clinical in goal scoring chances as they usually are
They were trying for goals but the sharpness in the five weeks break wasn't there but will be in the final

I agree mahony next year is a bonus
I hope the brick stays as I believe full back is idea for him in this system
He still has a lot to offer waterford imo

MfMan · 10-08-2015 12:39PM

Definitely weren't in "second gear" v Galway in LF; tried as hard as they could and were the better team, but Galway made mistakes that day and some players played poorly (as did for KK yesterday) that hopefully will be eradicated in future game(s!). KK are a super team and very difficult to beat, but don't mythologise them, IMHO worse Galway teams than currently have done it, and Tipp are well capable of it also.

thinkstoomuch1 · 10-08-2015 01:06PM

http://www.the42.ie/joe-schmidt-waterford-hurling-2262118-Aug2015/
A very good interview and I was impressed by it

deiseach · 10-08-2015 01:17PM

Lads, if you are going to reply to TTM, please don't include his post in your reply. Those of us who have him on ignore might end up reading his posts.

blueflame · 10-08-2015 01:19PM

Most over used phrases in GAA - "we need to up out game the next day and we drive on from here" - in knock out championship teams play as well as they can. No KK player shot a wide yesterday because they were in second gear and the two goal chances you talk about - one Aylward was under severe pressure and was being forced wide with this shot and Reid was millimeters outside the post - bit like Stephen Bennett against Tipp.

Every game is different and yesterday both sides cancelled each other out for much of the game, it was just more craft and experience that won the day for Kilkenny and rightly so. It was a perfect day for hurling with a dry sod and little wind, so the winning and loosing of the game came down to a combination of inspiration and mistakes. Waterford made far more mistakes such as two defenders going for one ball for T.J.s goal and at least two if not three bad fumbles.

Who ever meets in the final it will be a different game, and different players will come to the fore

robopaddy2 · 10-08-2015 01:36PM

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

I'm only giving an opinion to be fair

This nonsense just cause you don't post before you should not again is incorrect with respect
I've always been regular poster gaa threads and waterford to be fair
I'm simply giving an opinion just like many others do

You always come here after waterford lose and you keep on about how its always 'only your opinion' but in truth you just keep saying stuff that you hope might spark a reaction from someone. You showed earlier in the year that you have nothing but bitterness and disdain towards waterford and youve proven that again today as you know a lot of the regular genuine waterford people are hurting and you show up to stick the knife in your own sneaky patronising and condescending little way. Its the most pathetic attempt at someone trying to be humble towards a county ive ever seen its embarrasingly obvious the level of bitterness you try to bottle up really.

culbaire · 10-08-2015 03:16PM

blueflame wrote: »

Gutted after yesterday's result but reasonably happy with the year especially if we can learn from mistakes.

Wish for next 12 months - keep the forward momentum - no major radical overhaul - just development. Talk of moving Brick to full back - remember how that experiment went previously - tried it with Fergal Hartley also and did not work - full back is a specialist position and for the moment would work with Barry Coughlan and Shane Roche - even if Brick did work out which i do not think he would we will have problem again in two years time. If going to persist with a sweeper system need to look at dropping someone in there like Barron who is busy and can launch attacks as well as giving cover - deBurca is a good marker and an aggressive hurler and to me is wasted as a loose man.

Need to work hard at developing ball-winning ability in the Forwards, too many times standing under the ball h backing into the defender, allowing them to push and climb all over making them favourites to win ball - need to focus more on moving toward the ball and turning shoulder so that we can provide added protection to the ball

Need to be cuter - a.k.a TJ Reid yesterday turning his back and little nudge on deBurca, he fouls the man but little chance of being blown for it especially with two Waterford men being there, and was facing goal as he landed making him odds on for any breaking ball. Cannot beat that kind of craft and experience, but we need to work on that

Also have a couple of big lads on the panel and need to try and get them in as ball winners in the the half forward line when necessary. Cormac Curran and DJ Foran have as much hurling ability as Walter Walsh and despite a lot of KK supporters getting on his back, Walsh causes mayhem by winning primary possession with runners breaking off him. He also makes space for the likes of Hogan to pick up ball on the move.

Thought Pauric Mahony was a huge loss yesterday as he has that bit of craft and ability to pick points from limited space which was needed at times. Well done to Maurice who was flawless from the frees and not all easy ones, again he worked really hard and good to see Dunford coming back to form. Very optimistic about the future if we can just drive on. As regards KK being in 3rd gear - don;t believe it - have a look at Richie Hogan tweet in Examiner about his feet and the blisters- the game might not have been pretty but the work rate and tackling from both sides was massive - you don't win All Ireland semi finals playing in 3rd gear.

Final comment, something that is often overlooked is massive the advantage that KK have in playing on the Croke Park surface far more regularly than most of their opposition. Grass is cut much tighter and surface is more firmer than the likes of Thurles, Limerick or Parc ui Caoimhe - sliother skims off the ground at far more pace and is harder to pick - just think that in tight games it gives an advantage to team who are more familiar with it .

Any thanks to the lads for a great year and the sacrificea they have made. if you feel down this morning - how do they feel. Roll on 2016

You talk about development. The first development must in the full backline. I would try Tadhg De Burca at full back. He is a great striker of the ball. He just might solve the full back problem that has dogged Waterford for years. How many balls did Barry Coughlan clear yesterday? He is not a hurling full back. He is a good tight marker. However much more is required of a full back at inter county level. The system is geared towards covering weaknesses in the full backline. The full forward line is then short one or two players and will not score many goals against the likes of Kilkenny. I don't doubt that Barry Coughlan tries very hard however he must greatly improve his hurling skills and speed if he is ever to become a great inter county full back.
This post is not meant to be a personal attack on Barry Coughlan. If he is to win an All Ireland he will have to improve his speed and hurling skill. I hope he can do so. If he does I will be the first to praise him. By the way I am not blaming Barry Coughlan for our defeat yesterday. I am at a loss to understand why Tom Devine was not brought on when Shane Bennett was taken off.

If management and players learn from yesterday we can win an All Ireland. There is no room for loyalty to players who are not performing-irrespective of who they are. If players are not playing well they should not start.
Credit where credit is due. Management and players have done much good work this year. They deserve our thanks. The next step will be the hardest. Can we pull off an All Ireland win? We are not too far away.

blueflame · 10-08-2015 03:41PM

Have suggested long time ago that deBurca could make a full back, and had questioned Coughlan's ability there. That being said you cannot blame our total lack of attack on covering the full back. We play with a sweeper in front of the full back to protect the area in front of him - that leaves us technically short one in the full forward line, but yet we often play with one one in there and only two in the half forward line. Our problem in the forwards is that we are pulling every one back deep, our half forward are more often than not back behind our half backs and this is not the result of protecting a full back - it is a reult of an over cautious game plan.

For years I watched the likes of Bugsy bursting out with the ball and booming big clearances, and then fail on the basic of full back play, which is to keep your man outside you and away from goal, protect your keeper. More often then not the full back plays the man rather than the ball leaving it drop into the keeper where possible.

I have also watched for years as we robbed Peter to pay Paul - we have tried loads of lads as full back who were great hurlers and great strikers of the ball. On this basis I would be slow to move deBurca from half back line. He has become accustomed to playing as a loose player picking up ball and it may be too late to change him. I believe Barry Coughln has earned his right for another chance and for us to have more faith in him, I understand Shane Roche ha been going real well in training, and i was very impressed with Conor Prunty as full back on our Minor team this year (admittedly only say the Tipp game was away for Limerick one) Over the last 20 years we have constantly tinkered with the full back position, and turned it into a poison chalice. one bad game and your gone, until someone else fails and then your are parachuted in.

I stick to my guns on this one, it is not major overhauling is required it is minor surgery and more confidence.
We can still play a sweeper to give the full back line some protection and we can use this sweeper to launch attacks but we cannot afford to completely concede the half forward and full forward lines and invite teams onto us. Top quality teams such as KK and Tipp will exploit you with good ball. To protect your goal, the first port of call is put pressure on the opposition backs delivering the ball, this results in long or high balls that your sweeper and full back line will be favourites for. How much pressure were our backs put under yesterday.

hardybuck · 10-08-2015 04:15PM

Once again, some observations nearly 24 hours on:

- We're really missing one top forward, particularly one who can win their own possession. Someone like a TJ Reid or someone close would make the world of difference. Perhaps one might develop from our ranks as they get older and more experienced.

- The defence were excellent, but made a couple of fatal errors which hopefully they'll learn from. The goal was the biggest example of that, one man should have stayed back rather than both going for the ball. The two/three points gifted to KK at the start of the 2nd half were also criminal, and took any hope of winning away from us.

- Long ball. Did we not learn our lesson from the Tipp game? The amount of ball just being lobbed in there was crazy, participarly as they had a spare defender at all times. Perhaps the backs were under more pressure than in previous games, but the guys have to think on their feet during the game, and this will hopefully be a learning experience.

- Brick Walsh - this guy owes nothing to nobody. One of our greatest ever servants, but one of his poorest games for the county I'd imagine. Hopefully he'll stay on another year, I hope he doesn't leave it like that.

- Goals. We don't seem to have them in the team at present. We've addressed the problem of conceding them, but we need to make similar improvements at the other end if ever going to win a championship. The ability to score them, particularly when it matters, is what seperates the top teams in hurling and football.

- We must be careful about 'next year' in Waterford. We mightn't get a better opportunity in a year or two. Look what happened to the brilliant young Clare team who've hardly won a game in two years. That said, I'm confident that they'll work on addressing their weaknesses over the winter and return stronger in 2016.

PTH2009 · 10-08-2015 04:47PM

A bit gutted after yesterdays loss, Kilkenny were the better team. It looked like we were getting on top near the start but kilkenny became dominated in the second half. Still think Galway will win the all ireland.

Like many others i didnt expect the year to be as good and it all started thanks to a late padi prendergast point in limerick on valentines day. If we had of lost to limerick that night than we would not be looking forward to 1A hurling next year.

Limerick put it up to kilkenny in the 2014 semi final and then in 2015 had a disaster. hopefully the same thing doesnt happen to us.

So what will 2016 bring. Its going to be a harder league campaign we should target a top 3 finish and stay away from the relagation zone.going by clares games this year Hopefully we will get a run out in Croke Park as we are due to play Dublin Away. We have Kilkenny, Galway and Cork at home, tipp and dublin away. For the championship draw a good draw would be a semi final against either Clare or Limerick, we want to stay away from Tipp and Cork. Worse draw would be a quarter final vs Tipp. I think Brick will go this year possibly Shane O Sullivan and Iggy too.

Who would be good additions to the Squad for next year ??.

Still a record of 10 wins, 1 draw and 3 defeats is brillent and totally unexpected. Well done to Derek and Co

DE DEISE · 10-08-2015 05:01PM

PTH2009 wrote: »

A bit gutted after yesterdays loss, Kilkenny were the better team. It looked like we were getting on top near the start but kilkenny became dominated in the second half. Still think Galway will win the all ireland.

Like many others i didnt expect the year to be as good and it all started thanks to a late padi prendergast point in limerick on valentines day. If we had of lost to limerick that night than we would not be looking forward to 1A hurling next year.

Limerick put it up to kilkenny in the 2014 semi final and then in 2015 had a disaster. hopefully the same thing doesnt happen to us.

So what will 2016 bring. Its going to be a harder league campaign we should target a top 3 finish and stay away from the relagation zone.going by clares games this year Hopefully we will get a run out in Croke Park as we are due to play Dublin Away. We have Kilkenny, Galway and Cork at home, tipp and dublin away. For the championship draw a good draw would be a semi final against either Clare or Limerick, we want to stay away from Tipp and Cork. Worse draw would be a quarter final vs Tipp. I think Brick will go this year possibly Shane O Sullivan and Iggy too.

Who would be good additions to the Squad for next year ??.

Still a record of 10 wins, 1 draw and 3 defeats is brillent and totally unexpected. Well done to Derek and Co

Was it not 2 defeats out of 12

PTH2009 · 10-08-2015 05:12PM

DE DEISE wrote: »

Was it not 2 defeats out of 12

limerick in the Waterford Crystal Cup
Tipp in the munster final
Kilkenny in the semi final

i dont know would you count Waterford Crystal as comp games

thinkstoomuch1 · 10-08-2015 05:41PM

PTH2009 wrote: »

limerick in the Waterford Crystal Cup
Tipp in the munster final
Kilkenny in the semi final

i dont know would you count Waterford Crystal as comp games

To be honest it's classified as a competition but with the greatest respect to the competition i would be like your self unsure if I'd class it as competitive games
When tippeary went 18 games or so unbeaten in 2001 they included that as far as I know
It's fine to introduce new players but a loss isn't a major worry in this competition

The loss to limerick in the waterford crystal I wouldn't be harsh on waterford in it was the start of their season and they were playing limerick soon afterwards in the league and that was the one that mattered and they got a very valuable draw in that game that as you said in another post was unexpected but the season got momentum from there afterwards

Deskjockey · 10-08-2015 06:48PM

We conceded one goal against KK who scored 5 or 6 versus wexford so I think castigating the full back who admittedly made a mistake is pretty unfair. Terrible goal to give away but you have to look at how he played all year.

carter10 · 10-08-2015 07:15PM

deiseach wrote: »

Lads, if you are going to reply to TTM, please don't include his post in your reply. Those of us who have him on ignore might end up reading his posts.

Well said. Not a peep out of him after the Dublin game. No surprise he's all over the thread today. Sad individual.

Amprodude · 10-08-2015 07:20PM

Waterford players celebrating a moral victory after the game gives a clear view to me that they won't win any All Ireland soon. Not sounding harsh lads or anything but Waterford if they believed they could beat Kilkenny they would be disgusted yesterday after loosing that game. Instead players like Connors talking post match interview and loving the limelight gives a clear view that Waterford were prepared to accept the defeat and celebrate a moral victory.

culbaire · 10-08-2015 08:26PM

Amprodude wrote: »

Waterford players celebrating a moral victory after the game gives a clear view to me that they won't win any All Ireland soon. Not sounding harsh lads or anything but Waterford if they believed they could beat Kilkenny they would be disgusted yesterday after loosing that game. Instead players like Connors talking post match interview and loving the limelight gives a clear view that Waterford were prepared to accept the defeat and celebrate a moral victory.

You are not harsh. There is a lot of truth in what you have posted above. Moral victories are no good to anybody.

Well if the opinions of Fintan O'Connor-one of the selectors- are reflective of those of the rest of the selection committee, the selectors have learned nothing from yesterday. Was he looking at the same match at all?
Sadly the omens are not good if we are to take what he says seriously. Just hope Derek McGrath has a different view. Surely he can see where there are weaknesses as well as strong points.
With lessons learned from yesterday the team can win an All Ireland. The team has come a long way in one year.

thinkstoomuch1 · 10-08-2015 08:30PM

culbaire wrote: »

You are not harsh. There is a lot of truth in what you have posted above. Moral victories are no good to anybody.

Well if the opinions of Fintan O'Connor-one of the selectors- are reflective of those of the rest of the selection committee, the selectors have learned nothing from yesterday. Was he looking at the same match at all?
Sadly the omens are not good if we are to take what he says seriously. Just hope Derek McGrath has a different view. Surely he can see where there are weaknesses as well as strong points.
With lessons learned from yesterday the team can win an All Ireland. The team has come a long way in one year.

What did fintan o connor say?

RockyMills · 10-08-2015 09:05PM

culbaire wrote: »

You are not harsh. There is a lot of truth in what you have posted above. Moral victories are no good to anybody.

Well if the opinions of Fintan O'Connor-one of the selectors- are reflective of those of the rest of the selection committee, the selectors have learned nothing from yesterday. Was he looking at the same match at all?
Sadly the omens are not good if we are to take what he says seriously. Just hope Derek McGrath has a different view. Surely he can see where there are weaknesses as well as strong points.
With lessons learned from yesterday the team can win an All Ireland. The team has come a long way in one year.

Yes, he is harsh. What moral victory do you speak of? There were no sob stories or blaming anyone everyone but themselves. The team & management have made it clear that they were beaten by a better & more experienced team. The players were gutted yesterday, I'd have thought that was clear to see. Noel Connors is probably the best speaker on the panel - hence why he's always at the photocalls & media events.

robopaddy2 · 10-08-2015 10:35PM

Amprodude wrote: »

Waterford players celebrating a moral victory after the game gives a clear view to me that they won't win any All Ireland soon. Not sounding harsh lads or anything but Waterford if they believed they could beat Kilkenny they would be disgusted yesterday after loosing that game. Instead players like Connors talking post match interview and loving the limelight gives a clear view that Waterford were prepared to accept the defeat and celebrate a moral victory.

You dont sound harsh but you do sound like a bellend.

Your saying a lad giving a post match interview is a sign of weakness after defeat. God forbid a fellah dosent go to ground for days and hang his head in shame. Its only a game of hurling boy lighten up

deisedude · 10-08-2015 10:46PM

The camera did a close up of Noel Connors straight after the game and he was absolutely dejected. The fcuking begrudgery from some fcuking idiots knocking players on this thread every time we lose a game is sickening. We may have lost yesterday but it wasnt because those lads werent giving their all for the cause.

savannahkat · 10-08-2015 10:52PM

PTH2009 wrote: »

limerick in the Waterford Crystal Cup
Tipp in the munster final
Kilkenny in the semi final

i dont know would you count Waterford Crystal as comp games

Waterford lost two of the last three games they played. Statistics don't you just love them. They can tell so many different stories

Mountainlad · 10-08-2015 11:32PM

deisedude wrote: »

The camera did a close up of Noel Connors straight after the game and he was absolutely dejected. The fcuking begrudgery from some fcuking idiots knocking players on this thread every time we lose a game is sickening. We may have lost yesterday but it wasnt because those lads werent giving their all for the cause.

It's just unbelievable at this stage. As you said, saw him down on his knees straight away after the match and he was down a long time. Has given as much as anyone has to their County in the last 6 years.

On another note, FairPlay to the Waterford fans in the Hogan they gave he team the reception they deserved after the year they've had. I like to think we appreciate the effort they put in and while others might castigate them and throw up all this moral victory nonsense, it seems to me that most people have a sense of appreciation that they acknowledge the fact that we get a lot of enjoyment from watching them and he sacrifice and ferocious effort they put in.

Phenomenal some of the stuff I've heard them doing this year.

The Dickler · 10-08-2015 11:41PM

This Waterford team and management can look back at this year with a total sense of achievement and no little vindication in face of the abuse they took after last year. Well done lads and thanks.

it is unfortunate to see that some on here still have an axe to. Unrelenting personal attacks on certain members of the team I find hard to listen to.
It would be better for all if these lads could put their personal agendas aside for next year and move on in a united fashion as the panel and management team have.
We conceded 1 goal in 140 minutes of hurling against two of the finest teams Tipp and Kilkenny have ever produced. There is very little wrong with our defence.
Where we obviously came up short yesterday was in our attacking abilities. Nothing to do with systems or numbers. When we had the ball in attacking positions the ability to make space or get shots off in tight spaces was limited. This has been the difference between us and Tipp/Kill.
Aussie and Maurice managed it yesterday.
Dunford got a few good scores but his unwillingness to take those extra steps where his pace will really hurt them is frustrating.
It didn't happen for Moran, Jake and as the game wore on Brick.
And if we are honest despite the very high hopes I have for them, the Bennetts and Paddy Curran caused their markers zero difficulties yesterday and are quite a bit off this level yet.
All to look forward next year but as we know there are no guarantees.

CaseysRock · 11-08-2015 12:10AM

Credit to everyone involved for what was an excellent year.
Hopefully next year we can push on again but as Derek McGrath said there are no guaruntees.
Just look at Clare winning all ireland in 2013, nowhere near last year or this.
This time last year everyone was talking about how good Wexford and Limerick were in the same way as our lads are being praised now.....it didn't work out so well for those teams this year so to follow up again with another good year is a big ask but one I'm sure that set of players and management will embrace.

For what it's worth I still feel we're a bit off in terms of development and game plan from winning the big one unless we get a freak year such as 2013 where the best three teams, KK, Tipp and Galway were off the pace.

Looking at the way those three teams play such a big factor in my opinion is they play fast aggressive attack minded hurling looking for goals all the time and they have the players to do it i.e. Reid, Hogan, Fennelley etc for the cats, o'dwyer, callanan, forde for Tipp and the likes of Mannion, Flynn, Glynn, Donnellan and Canning for Galway.

The teams who are that little bit behind those three, as in Clare, ourselves, Limerick, Wexford, Dublin etc seem to favour the more conservative, defensive systems limiting concession of goals but leaving players isolated up front Maurice for ourselves, O'Donnell for Clare etc.

From what I can see this style of play will only take us as far as being competitive and in and around the last 4/last 6 each year.....to beat Tipp/KK we need a team and a style of play that favours attack minded hurling and goals over defensive systems. I really feel that the great team of 04 - 07 didn't win an all ireland due to bad luck more so than not being more defensive minded.

And the above is not a criticism of Derek McGrath. In my opinion he has done a fantastic job and moulded the lads into a very good side....however the current style of play with scores such as 0 - 16 and 0 - 18 will not win us an all ireland.

For what its worth my team for summer 2016.

O'Keefe

Fives Connors Daniels

Mahoney De Burca Fives

Barron (Sweeper)

Dunford Gleeson

Moran Mahoney

Curran Shanahan Bennett

culbaire · 11-08-2015 12:12AM

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

What did fintan o connor say?

Seems to think we have solved the full back problem.

culbaire · 11-08-2015 12:16AM

The Dickler wrote: »

This Waterford team and management can look back at this year with a total sense of achievement and no little vindication in face of the abuse they took after last year. Well done lads and thanks.

it is unfortunate to see that some on here still have an axe to. Unrelenting personal attacks on certain members of the team I find hard to listen to.
It would be better for all if these lads could put their personal agendas aside for next year and move on in a united fashion as the panel and management team have.
We conceded 1 goal in 140 minutes of hurling against two of the finest teams Tipp and Kilkenny have ever produced. There is very little wrong with our defence.
Where we obviously came up short yesterday was in our attacking abilities. Nothing to do with systems or numbers. When we had the ball in attacking positions the ability to make space or get shots off in tight spaces was limited. This has been the difference between us and Tipp/Kill.
Aussie and Maurice managed it yesterday.
Dunford got a few good scores but his unwillingness to take those extra steps where his pace will really hurt them is frustrating.
It didn't happen for Moran, Jake and as the game wore on Brick.
And if we are honest despite the very high hopes I have for them, the Bennetts and Paddy Curran caused their markers zero difficulties yesterday and are quite a bit off this level yet.
All to look forward next year but as we know there are no guarantees.

There are no PERSONAL attacks on any team member here. There is an honest analysis of weaknesses that MUST be rectified if we are to win an All Ireland. Did you read the analysis of the performances of the Waterford and Kilkenny players in the Sports section of the Irish Independent? Some Waterford players were criticised. Would you consider that as personal? Darragh Fives who in my view played very well came in for unfair criticism.

Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 3 ***Updated Mod Note Post 1***

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Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 3 Updated Mod Note Post 1