Waterford vs Kilkenny AI semi final 2015 MOD WARNING #187

blue note · 07-08-2015 10:45AM #1

So what are people's opinions on this match? I generally find that Waterford are written off against everyone. Last year I even remember a couple of people predicting Laois to beat us. But I think a few people are giving us a chance this time around - I believe RTE have even tipped Waterford to come through :eek:

I think it's not far off a 50/50 to be honest. I heard Michael Duignan on the radio this morning remind us that we're facing one of the greatest teams of all time. But we're not. The team that won the 4 in a row barely had a close match in those 4 years. I think Cork were closest to them with a 3 point defeat in that time. Then ourselves and Tipp lost to them by 5 in 09. This current team are still a great team - they didn't win 3 of the last 4 all irelands by chance. But they're no longer invincible. Cork, Dublin and Galway have all beaten them and they've had draws against ourselves, Dublin, Galway and Tipp in that time. If Waterford perform well on Sunday we have every chance of making the final.

keeponhurling · 07-08-2015 10:49AM

Draw

True, Kilkenny are not as good as when they won the 4-in-a-row. Duignan talks a lot of nonsense.

But Kilkenny are still a bit ahead of Waterford, so I'd expect them to win by 6-8 points

iDave · 07-08-2015 11:08AM

Think I speak for most neutrals when I say Up the Deise!

cosatron · 07-08-2015 11:29AM

Two reasons why Kilkenny will win, 1. Tj ried 2. Richie Hogan. These two are the best two hurlers in Ireland by a long distance and I say this as a galwayman.

MfMan · 07-08-2015 11:44AM

Think the timing for Waterford is as good now as it's likely to be. Coming off a fairly good performance v Dublin and with a good tailwind of momentum and support behind them. Rumours about injuries to Hogan and Reid may simply be that, but *if* they aren't 100%, I think it will mitigate against them eventually. Ditto Michael Fennelly; great player though he is, if he has the back ailments as reported, it has to affect his mobility as some point. (Take it from someone who's had this problem before!) Tyrell's experience will be a loss to the KK FB line, but his lack of pace probably won't be. Contrary to what some would have you believe, KK didn't have it too easy in the LF; Galway, despite struggling to implement any game plan and in spite of a litany of errors, stuck with them and it was only in the final 5 minutes that KK finally got the extra scores to make the game safe.

Deise must be tight-marking and disciplined in defence, mark KK's big two as closely as possible and detail someone to follow Hogan if he wanders further out the field a-la LF. Should be ok in midfield. Up front, I think they is where they really need to shine. Forwards have to be able to win their own ball and take scores themselves. Again, *if* they can do this, then they have a great chance, but I'm not sure that the team is at this level just yet. Tipping KK for this reason alone, margin not really relevant.

StephenHendry · 07-08-2015 11:51AM

very true op I would like to see Waterford win but after having a really good season kk to win by 5-6pts , they're not as good as the 06-09 teams, duignan is like a closet kk fan at this stage

keeponhurling · 07-08-2015 11:52AM

Draw

MfMan wrote: »

Coming off a fairly good performance v Dublin .

Fairly good, but still a million miles off the level needed to beat Kilkenny.

Dyr · 07-08-2015 12:00PM

cosatron wrote: »

Two reasons why Kilkenny will win, 1. Tj ried 2. Richie Hogan. These two are the best two hurlers in Ireland by a long distance and I say this as a galwayman.

One of your reasons is out injured

adrian522 · 07-08-2015 12:00PM

Draw

Bambi wrote: »

One of your reasons is out injured

No he isn't

blue note · 07-08-2015 12:28PM

Kilkenny win

Anyone know how to edit the poll so it closes before the match? It's not that I don't trust the other boardsies, but....

Warper · 07-08-2015 12:41PM

Draw

When is the KK team named?

phkk · 07-08-2015 12:42PM

Kilkenny win

Warper wrote: »

When is the KK team named?

Tonight, 9pm like always

dastardly00 · 07-08-2015 01:06PM

blue note wrote: »

Anyone know how to edit the poll so it closes before the match? It's not that I don't trust the other boardsies, but....

Just ask a Mod. Easiest way is to report your own opening post.

dastardly00 · 07-08-2015 01:09PM

Brian Gavin is free to take charge of Sunday's All-Ireland semi-final between Kilkenny and Waterford after an Offaly Hearings Committee cleared him of the charge of allegedly making abusive comments to a referee after a local club game.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/referee-brian-gavin-cleared-to-referee-sundays-allireland-hurling-semifinal-31434330.html

redlead · 07-08-2015 01:10PM

Kilkenny win

I've convinced myself that Waterford are going to win but haven't figured out any logic as to why yet :-P

glued · 07-08-2015 01:31PM

Draw

iDave wrote: »

Think I speak for most neutrals when I say Up the Deise!

I'd like to see Waterford win but their brand of hurling is extremely hard on the eyes and because of that I'd rather see Kilkenny win.

Mountainlad · 07-08-2015 01:33PM

Kilkenny win

glued wrote: »

I'd like to see Waterford win but their brand of hurling is extremely hard on the eyes and because of that I'd rather see Kilkenny win.

What's so hard to watch about it?

tomwaterford · 07-08-2015 01:43PM

glued wrote: »

I'd like to see Waterford win but their brand of hurling is extremely hard on the eyes and because of that I'd rather see Kilkenny win.

What is fundamentally different to kk style of play??

I fear it's a bit too early for this wat team....though I do feel they haven't been shown enough respect for what they've achieved....esp compare to where they were 12 months ago...beaten by wexford...now facing into playing kk and aren't fully written off

TheNap · 07-08-2015 01:53PM

As a neutral i laugh when people criticise Waterford.

They drop their half forwards to midfield . Allowing their midfield to drop back which in turn allows their centre back to drop back.

Hardy new age stuff its been going on for donkeys.

Its only been highlighted because they done it in the league and ended up as champions. Normally teams dont use the league to give away championship tactics thus it just being 15 v 15.

Anyway heres hoping Sunday is when the championship comes alive.

glued · 07-08-2015 02:25PM

Draw

Mountainlad wrote: »

What's so hard to watch about it?

Did you see the Munster Final? One of the best hurling days of the year ruined by negative tactics from Waterford. It was desperate to watch. Worst Munster Final I've attended.

It's my personal preference obviously but I just don't like their style. It's too defensive and negative but it undoubtably works well for Waterford. I just don't like watching Waterford play anymore.

Mountainlad · 07-08-2015 02:30PM

Kilkenny win

glued wrote: »

Did you see the Munster Final? One of the best hurling days of the year ruined by negative tactics from Waterford. It was desperate to watch. Worst Munster Final I've attended.

It's my personal preference obviously but I just don't like their style. It's too defensive and negative but it undoubtably works well for Waterford. I just don't like watching Waterford play anymore.

Tipp had a sweeper too, and the only clear cut goal chance created was by Waterford.

Hate watching Tipp play, too negative. Did you see the Munster final? Too happy to draw their men out the field and take their points.

glued · 07-08-2015 03:03PM

Draw

Mountainlad wrote: »

Tipp had a sweeper too, and the only clear cut goal chance created was by Waterford.

Hate watching Tipp play, too negative. Did you see the Munster final? Too happy to draw their men out the field and take their points.

Like I said its my own personal preference of the way in which I like to see the game played. I don't think Waterford's system allows for a good spectacle. Best of luck to Waterford on Sunday and it would be nice to see someone knock out Kilkenny.

I'm not having a pop at Waterford I just prefer a more open game but horses for courses and all that.

Tom Joad · 07-08-2015 03:27PM

dastardly00 wrote: »

Just ask a Mod. Easiest way is to report your own opening post.

I don't think we can be that specific. Best thing to do is to ask a mod to close it Sunday just before the game starts (just report the opening post). I'd stick a reminder in my phone to do it but will be away from the keyboard that time Sunday.

dastardly00 · 07-08-2015 04:12PM

Mountainlad wrote: »

Tipp had a sweeper too, and the only clear cut goal chance created was by Waterford.

Hate watching Tipp play, too negative. Did you see the Munster final? Too happy to draw their men out the field and take their points.

I know you are just defending your own county, and I am of the opinion that people have gotten completely carried away that Waterford are this super-negative team, but....

... you describing Tipp as a negative team is a bit silly. The last time Tipp failed to score a goal in a championship match before the Munster final this year was in July 18th 2010 (Phase 3 Qualifier match against Offaly). Tipp were on a run of 21 consecutive games in which they had found the back of the net.

Rasputin11 · 07-08-2015 04:16PM

Mountainlad wrote: »

Tipp had a sweeper too, and the only clear cut goal chance created was by Waterford.

Hate watching Tipp play, too negative. Did you see the Munster final? Too happy to draw their men out the field and take their points.

Tipp didn't have a sweeper, Paudie Maher had no opponent to mark because of the way Waterford setup. Tipp will start with 6 defenders against Galway.

cson · 07-08-2015 04:21PM

Hope Kilkenny win.

Solely because on the off chance Galway beat Tipp then we'll almost certainly be beaten by Waterford in the final if we meet them. They have some sort of curse/hoodoo over us.

redlead · 07-08-2015 04:25PM

Kilkenny win

dastardly00 wrote: »

I know you are just defending your own county, and I am of the opinion that people have gotten completely carried away that Waterford are this super-negative team, but....

... you describing Tipp as a negative team is a bit silly. The last time Tipp failed to score a goal in a championship match before the Munster final this year was in July 18th 2010 (Phase 3 Qualifier match against Offaly). Tipp were on a run of 21 consecutive games in which they had found the back of the net.

He wasn’t calling Tipp a negative team, he was just highlighting how the same rational could be applied to Tipp who no-one would call negative or horrible to watch (rightly so). Essentially people are calling Waterford negative when they clearly aren’t. They have a very well structured defence which is being branded as negative but when other counties do the same it is called hard work. It makes an interesting soundbite for sure, but there is little to no evidence to support it. Waterford has probably created more goal chances than anyone they have played this year in the championship and put up decent scores. Everyone is entitled to their opinion of course but it would be nice if the next time someone throws out a similar claim that they offer some evidence to support it.

JimboJones99 · 07-08-2015 04:41PM

Mountainlad wrote: »

Tipp had a sweeper too, and the only clear cut goal chance created was by Waterford.

Hate watching Tipp play, too negative. Did you see the Munster final? Too happy to draw their men out the field and take their points.

Ah come on, Padraic Maher was only a sweeper because his man was at the other end of the field.

Waterford are defensive and not very pretty to watch but they should have no reason to apologise for this. Yes, everyone wants to see fast free flowing attacking hurling because that makes for the most entertaining spectacle. Waterford have to look after themselves and this system is their best way of winning an AI, which is what it is all about.

glued · 07-08-2015 05:01PM

Draw

redlead wrote: »

He wasn’t calling Tipp a negative team, he was just highlighting how the same rational could be applied to Tipp who no-one would call negative or horrible to watch (rightly so). Essentially people are calling Waterford negative when they clearly aren’t. They have a very well structured defence which is being branded as negative but when other counties do the same it is called hard work. It makes an interesting soundbite for sure, but there is little to no evidence to support it. Waterford has probably created more goal chances than anyone they have played this year in the championship and put up decent scores. Everyone is entitled to their opinion of course but it would be nice if the next time someone throws out a similar claim that they offer some evidence to support it.

It's a well structured defence by pure negativity and numbers. What is so hard to grasp about that? Waterford are clearly an extremely negative side and have implemented the most negative system I have seen in the championship to date. What definition of the word negative are you using?

Mountainlad · 07-08-2015 05:08PM

Kilkenny win

Was tongue in cheek there lads, I know how Tipp like to play. If anyone else chooses to play that way against them they will win the exception to that maybe Kilkenny.

It's not our fault teams can't break it down. Between Cork, Dublin and Tipp they only managed one goal from play. On the other hand we scored 5 goals. The only game we put up a poor score was against Tipp.

Compare that to Cork, and the Wexford game aside, they played three games and failed to goal from play. This was always fairly prevalent in the league. But ask people over the course of the year and sure wouldn't they tell you they've a great forward line. Doesn't make sense to me.

redlead · 07-08-2015 05:23PM

Kilkenny win

glued wrote: »

It's a well structured defence by pure negativity and numbers. What is so hard to grasp about that? Waterford are clearly an extremely negative side and have implemented the most negative system I have seen in the championship to date. What definition of the word negative are you using?

the most important aspect of the defence is the skill of the players involved; that can't be ignored. The defensive system they use enables the midfield and half backs to drop back to assist when required but they do not stay there. They are covering a huge amount of ground. If there is always so many players in the backs how are they hitting big scores in games? It's quite a different system to the one used by say Anthony Dalys Dublin or Davy Fitzgeralds Waterford where you had static extra men in midfield/half backs.

Waterford vs Kilkenny AI semi final 2015 MOD WARNING #187

What will the result be on Sunday 97 votes

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Waterford vs Kilkenny AI semi final 2015 *MOD WARNING #187*

What will the result be on Sunday 97 votes

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Waterford vs Kilkenny AI semi final 2015 MOD WARNING #187