Waterford vs Kilkenny AI semi final 2015 *MOD WARNING #187*

blue note

So what are people's opinions on this match? I generally find that Waterford are written off against everyone. Last year I even remember a couple of people predicting Laois to beat us. But I think a few people are giving us a chance this time around - I believe RTE have even tipped Waterford to come through :eek:

I think it's not far off a 50/50 to be honest. I heard Michael Duignan on the radio this morning remind us that we're facing one of the greatest teams of all time. But we're not. The team that won the 4 in a row barely had a close match in those 4 years. I think Cork were closest to them with a 3 point defeat in that time. Then ourselves and Tipp lost to them by 5 in 09. This current team are still a great team - they didn't win 3 of the last 4 all irelands by chance. But they're no longer invincible. Cork, Dublin and Galway have all beaten them and they've had draws against ourselves, Dublin, Galway and Tipp in that time. If Waterford perform well on Sunday we have every chance of making the final.

keeponhurling

Draw

True, Kilkenny are not as good as when they won the 4-in-a-row. Duignan talks a lot of nonsense.

But Kilkenny are still a bit ahead of Waterford, so I'd expect them to win by 6-8 points

iDave

Think I speak for most neutrals when I say Up the Deise!

cosatron

Two reasons why Kilkenny will win, 1. Tj ried 2. Richie Hogan. These two are the best two hurlers in Ireland by a long distance and I say this as a galwayman.

MfMan

Think the timing for Waterford is as good now as it's likely to be. Coming off a fairly good performance v Dublin and with a good tailwind of momentum and support behind them. Rumours about injuries to Hogan and Reid may simply be that, but *if* they aren't 100%, I think it will mitigate against them eventually. Ditto Michael Fennelly; great player though he is, if he has the back ailments as reported, it has to affect his mobility as some point. (Take it from someone who's had this problem before!) Tyrell's experience will be a loss to the KK FB line, but his lack of pace probably won't be. Contrary to what some would have you believe, KK didn't have it too easy in the LF; Galway, despite struggling to implement any game plan and in spite of a litany of errors, stuck with them and it was only in the final 5 minutes that KK finally got the extra scores to make the game safe.

Deise must be tight-marking and disciplined in defence, mark KK's big two as closely as possible and detail someone to follow Hogan if he wanders further out the field a-la LF. Should be ok in midfield. Up front, I think they is where they really need to shine. Forwards have to be able to win their own ball and take scores themselves. Again, *if* they can do this, then they have a great chance, but I'm not sure that the team is at this level just yet. Tipping KK for this reason alone, margin not really relevant.

StephenHendry

very true op I would like to see Waterford win but after having a really good season kk to win by 5-6pts , they're not as good as the 06-09 teams, duignan is like a closet kk fan at this stage

keeponhurling

Draw

MfMan wrote: »

Coming off a fairly good performance v Dublin .

Fairly good, but still a million miles off the level needed to beat Kilkenny.

Dyr

cosatron wrote: »

Two reasons why Kilkenny will win, 1. Tj ried 2. Richie Hogan. These two are the best two hurlers in Ireland by a long distance and I say this as a galwayman.

One of your reasons is out injured

adrian522

Draw

Bambi wrote: »

One of your reasons is out injured

No he isn't

blue note

Kilkenny win

Anyone know how to edit the poll so it closes before the match? It's not that I don't trust the other boardsies, but....

Warper

Draw

When is the KK team named?

phkk

Kilkenny win

Warper wrote: »

When is the KK team named?

Tonight, 9pm like always

dastardly00

blue note wrote: »

Anyone know how to edit the poll so it closes before the match? It's not that I don't trust the other boardsies, but....

Just ask a Mod. Easiest way is to report your own opening post.

dastardly00

Brian Gavin is free to take charge of Sunday's All-Ireland semi-final between Kilkenny and Waterford after an Offaly Hearings Committee cleared him of the charge of allegedly making abusive comments to a referee after a local club game.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/referee-brian-gavin-cleared-to-referee-sundays-allireland-hurling-semifinal-31434330.html

redlead

Kilkenny win

I've convinced myself that Waterford are going to win but haven't figured out any logic as to why yet :-P

glued

Draw

iDave wrote: »

Think I speak for most neutrals when I say Up the Deise!

I'd like to see Waterford win but their brand of hurling is extremely hard on the eyes and because of that I'd rather see Kilkenny win.

Mountainlad

Kilkenny win

glued wrote: »

I'd like to see Waterford win but their brand of hurling is extremely hard on the eyes and because of that I'd rather see Kilkenny win.

What's so hard to watch about it?

tomwaterford

glued wrote: »

I'd like to see Waterford win but their brand of hurling is extremely hard on the eyes and because of that I'd rather see Kilkenny win.

What is fundamentally different to kk style of play??

I fear it's a bit too early for this wat team....though I do feel they haven't been shown enough respect for what they've achieved....esp compare to where they were 12 months ago...beaten by wexford...now facing into playing kk and aren't fully written off

TheNap

As a neutral i laugh when people criticise Waterford.

They drop their half forwards to midfield . Allowing their midfield to drop back which in turn allows their centre back to drop back.

Hardy new age stuff its been going on for donkeys.

Its only been highlighted because they done it in the league and ended up as champions. Normally teams dont use the league to give away championship tactics thus it just being 15 v 15.


Anyway heres hoping Sunday is when the championship comes alive.

glued

Draw

Mountainlad wrote: »

What's so hard to watch about it?

Did you see the Munster Final? One of the best hurling days of the year ruined by negative tactics from Waterford. It was desperate to watch. Worst Munster Final I've attended.

It's my personal preference obviously but I just don't like their style. It's too defensive and negative but it undoubtably works well for Waterford. I just don't like watching Waterford play anymore.

Mountainlad

Kilkenny win

glued wrote: »

Did you see the Munster Final? One of the best hurling days of the year ruined by negative tactics from Waterford. It was desperate to watch. Worst Munster Final I've attended.

It's my personal preference obviously but I just don't like their style. It's too defensive and negative but it undoubtably works well for Waterford. I just don't like watching Waterford play anymore.

Tipp had a sweeper too, and the only clear cut goal chance created was by Waterford.

Hate watching Tipp play, too negative. Did you see the Munster final? Too happy to draw their men out the field and take their points.

glued

Draw

Mountainlad wrote: »

Tipp had a sweeper too, and the only clear cut goal chance created was by Waterford.

Hate watching Tipp play, too negative. Did you see the Munster final? Too happy to draw their men out the field and take their points.

Like I said its my own personal preference of the way in which I like to see the game played. I don't think Waterford's system allows for a good spectacle. Best of luck to Waterford on Sunday and it would be nice to see someone knock out Kilkenny.

I'm not having a pop at Waterford I just prefer a more open game but horses for courses and all that.

Tom Joad

dastardly00 wrote: »

Just ask a Mod. Easiest way is to report your own opening post.

I don't think we can be that specific. Best thing to do is to ask a mod to close it Sunday just before the game starts (just report the opening post). I'd stick a reminder in my phone to do it but will be away from the keyboard that time Sunday.

dastardly00

Mountainlad wrote: »

Tipp had a sweeper too, and the only clear cut goal chance created was by Waterford.

Hate watching Tipp play, too negative. Did you see the Munster final? Too happy to draw their men out the field and take their points.

I know you are just defending your own county, and I am of the opinion that people have gotten completely carried away that Waterford are this super-negative team, but....

... you describing Tipp as a negative team is a bit silly. The last time Tipp failed to score a goal in a championship match before the Munster final this year was in July 18th 2010 (Phase 3 Qualifier match against Offaly). Tipp were on a run of 21 consecutive games in which they had found the back of the net.

Rasputin11

Mountainlad wrote: »

Tipp had a sweeper too, and the only clear cut goal chance created was by Waterford.

Hate watching Tipp play, too negative. Did you see the Munster final? Too happy to draw their men out the field and take their points.

Tipp didn't have a sweeper, Paudie Maher had no opponent to mark because of the way Waterford setup. Tipp will start with 6 defenders against Galway.

cson

Hope Kilkenny win.

Solely because on the off chance Galway beat Tipp then we'll almost certainly be beaten by Waterford in the final if we meet them. They have some sort of curse/hoodoo over us.

redlead

Kilkenny win

dastardly00 wrote: »

I know you are just defending your own county, and I am of the opinion that people have gotten completely carried away that Waterford are this super-negative team, but....

... you describing Tipp as a negative team is a bit silly. The last time Tipp failed to score a goal in a championship match before the Munster final this year was in July 18th 2010 (Phase 3 Qualifier match against Offaly). Tipp were on a run of 21 consecutive games in which they had found the back of the net.

He wasn’t calling Tipp a negative team, he was just highlighting how the same rational could be applied to Tipp who no-one would call negative or horrible to watch (rightly so). Essentially people are calling Waterford negative when they clearly aren’t. They have a very well structured defence which is being branded as negative but when other counties do the same it is called hard work. It makes an interesting soundbite for sure, but there is little to no evidence to support it. Waterford has probably created more goal chances than anyone they have played this year in the championship and put up decent scores. Everyone is entitled to their opinion of course but it would be nice if the next time someone throws out a similar claim that they offer some evidence to support it.

JimboJones99

Mountainlad wrote: »

Tipp had a sweeper too, and the only clear cut goal chance created was by Waterford.

Hate watching Tipp play, too negative. Did you see the Munster final? Too happy to draw their men out the field and take their points.

Ah come on, Padraic Maher was only a sweeper because his man was at the other end of the field.

Waterford are defensive and not very pretty to watch but they should have no reason to apologise for this. Yes, everyone wants to see fast free flowing attacking hurling because that makes for the most entertaining spectacle. Waterford have to look after themselves and this system is their best way of winning an AI, which is what it is all about.

glued

Draw

redlead wrote: »

He wasn’t calling Tipp a negative team, he was just highlighting how the same rational could be applied to Tipp who no-one would call negative or horrible to watch (rightly so). Essentially people are calling Waterford negative when they clearly aren’t. They have a very well structured defence which is being branded as negative but when other counties do the same it is called hard work. It makes an interesting soundbite for sure, but there is little to no evidence to support it. Waterford has probably created more goal chances than anyone they have played this year in the championship and put up decent scores. Everyone is entitled to their opinion of course but it would be nice if the next time someone throws out a similar claim that they offer some evidence to support it.

It's a well structured defence by pure negativity and numbers. What is so hard to grasp about that? Waterford are clearly an extremely negative side and have implemented the most negative system I have seen in the championship to date. What definition of the word negative are you using?

Mountainlad

Kilkenny win

Was tongue in cheek there lads, I know how Tipp like to play. If anyone else chooses to play that way against them they will win the exception to that maybe Kilkenny.

It's not our fault teams can't break it down. Between Cork, Dublin and Tipp they only managed one goal from play. On the other hand we scored 5 goals. The only game we put up a poor score was against Tipp.

Compare that to Cork, and the Wexford game aside, they played three games and failed to goal from play. This was always fairly prevalent in the league. But ask people over the course of the year and sure wouldn't they tell you they've a great forward line. Doesn't make sense to me.

redlead

Kilkenny win

glued wrote: »

It's a well structured defence by pure negativity and numbers. What is so hard to grasp about that? Waterford are clearly an extremely negative side and have implemented the most negative system I have seen in the championship to date. What definition of the word negative are you using?

the most important aspect of the defence is the skill of the players involved; that can't be ignored. The defensive system they use enables the midfield and half backs to drop back to assist when required but they do not stay there. They are covering a huge amount of ground. If there is always so many players in the backs how are they hitting big scores in games? It's quite a different system to the one used by say Anthony Dalys Dublin or Davy Fitzgeralds Waterford where you had static extra men in midfield/half backs.

skaface

Kilkenny win

Both Teams being named tonight after training
Excitement building , not long to go now..
Interesting listening to Henry after the Waterford v Dublin Match on about the " work rate" of the Dublin team in the 1st half, but unable to sustain
it later in the game when Waterford upped their game..
You can be sure Cody will try to get his team to "Out Work " us from the off.
This is where I think the winning and losing of
this game will be. If Waterford can match Kilkenny in the opening 20 minutes without conceding a goal, and match their intensity, I would give us a great chance..
One thing I guarantee, this Waterford side won't
go down without one hell of a battle on Sunday.
Up The Deise !!!

polger

Eoin Murphy

Paul Murphy
Joey Holden - Captain
Shane Prendergast

Padraig Walsh
Kieran Joyce
Cillian Buckley

Michael Fennelly
Conor Fogarty

Walter Walsh
Richie Hogan
T J Reid

Ger Aylward
Colin Fennelly
Eoin Larkin

polger

Eoin Murphy

Paul Murphy
Joey Holden - Captain
Shane Prendergast

Padraig Walsh
Kieran Joyce
Cillian Buckley

Michael Fennelly
Conor Fogarty

Walter Walsh
Richie Hogan
T J Reid

Ger Aylward
Colin Fennelly
Eoin Larkin

redlead

Kilkenny win

polger wrote: »

Eoin Murphy

Paul Murphy
Joey Holden - Captain
Shane Prendergast

Padraig Walsh
Kieran Joyce
Cillian Buckley

Michael Fennelly
Conor Fogarty

Walter Walsh
Richie Hogan
T J Reid

Ger Aylward
Colin Fennelly
Eoin Larkin

The team is so good you had to name it twice

Rightwing

KK are there for the taking, but Waterford won't do it, if they repeat the performance v Tipp. I'd be looking for handicaps of kk-8.

Warper

Draw

All over KK now

skaface

Kilkenny win

Waterford Team

S O keeffe
S Fives
B Coughlan
N Conners
P Mahoney
A Gleeson
T De Burcha
J Barron
D Fives
K Moran
S Bennett
J Dillon
M Shannahan
M Walsh
C Dunford

citykat

Waterford are not a negative team, defensive maybe but not negative. Negative is the dross that passes for football these days where the ball gets passed backwards more often than forward.

Realt Dearg Sec

Draw

citykat wrote: »

Waterford are not a negative team, defensive maybe but not negative. Negative is the dross that passes for football these days where the ball gets passed backwards more often than forward.

I agree, I must be one of the only Kilkenny fans I know who actually quite likes the Waterford brand of hurling. There's nothing wrong with being defensive and it's certainly not an easy game plan to implement. It requires huge work rate and very good passing ability. It doesn't create many goal chances but so what? It's an impressive system, and certainly not revolutionary. Kilkenny have been doubling back their forwards in certain matches for years.

Certainly I don't buy the idea that it's a system to patch over inadequacies. Tomorrow will be a tough encounter against a very accomplished young team. I think Kilkenny will win so long as Reid and Hogan are healthy, because you just can't bottle up both of them. If aylward can open them up like he did against wexford then the job becomes impossible for waterford. But I think they'll contain him.

The best thing about Hogan (and Reid for that matter) for me is that he goes through so much work, when not in possession they make it very difficult for a back to deliver quality ball. And obviously when you're set up defensively the ball has to be excellent.

I worry about Holden dealing with Shanahan, but psychologically he won't make an eejit of anyone like he did Liam rushe the last day. But he's obviously a danger, THE danger. Gleeson is class too but his shots from miles out are a lottery and I don't think it's something I'd be planning around like you would for Maurice.

Anyway in the shake up I'm happy enough to predict a three point win for Kilkenny. Could be a dangerous last few minutes because that's Kilkennys weakest bench in a generation.

savannahkat

Draw

Rightwing wrote: »

KK are there for the taking, but Waterford won't do it, if they repeat the performance v Tipp. I'd be looking for handicaps of kk-8.

By who?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

letowski

I would give Waterford a decent chance tomorrow if they are in good form. Their touch and stickwork will have to be really accurate I feel again for their short game to work out of defence. One of the things this young Waterford team will have to get over is KK well known tackling and workrate. Quite simply they are going to ship hits and pressure like the have not before. When your playing a short running game with only 4 forwards distribution and use of the ball is key. It will be a big game for the likes of Coughlan, Gleeson, TdeB, Barron, Bennett in seeing can they cope under pressure.

Rightwing

savannahkat wrote: »

By who?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Tipp. We saw how easily they disposed of Waterford in the semi. Galway possibly a threat too.

Realt Dearg Sec

Draw

Rightwing wrote: »

Tipp. We saw how easily they disposed of Waterford in the semi. Galway possibly a threat too.

Waterford I think look as dangerous. Kilkenny are vulnerable in the full back line tomorrow, wouldn't be surprised if waterford played a slightly more aggressive system tomorrow at the start to test our full backs. If they get a lead on us early we're in trouble, it's vital for Kilkenny to score a decent tally early doors. Ultimately, as i say, I think we have the players and experience to edge it, so I probably agree with you but waterford have the beating of anyone.

savannahkat

Draw

Rightwing wrote: »

Tipp. We saw how easily they disposed of Waterford in the semi. Galway possibly a threat too.

Santa Clause and the Tooth fairy are getting married tomorrow as well.

digzy

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Waterford I think look as dangerous. Kilkenny are vulnerable in the full back line tomorrow, wouldn't be surprised if waterford played a slightly more aggressive system tomorrow at the start to test our full backs. If they get a lead on us early we're in trouble, it's vital for Kilkenny to score a decent tally early doors. Ultimately, as i say, I think we have the players and experience to edge it, so I probably agree with you but waterford have the beating of anyone.

I'm not familiar with Pendergast. Haven't seen much of Holden but every other line is stronger than any other teams. That aylward is some hurler. Heir to Richie hogan.

citykat

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Waterford I think look as dangerous. Kilkenny are vulnerable in the full back line tomorrow, wouldn't be surprised if waterford played a slightly more aggressive system tomorrow at the start to test our full backs. If they get a lead on us early we're in trouble, it's vital for Kilkenny to score a decent tally early doors. Ultimately, as i say, I think we have the players and experience to edge it, so I probably agree with you but waterford have the beating of anyone.

I don't think Wd will be more offensive tomorrow. If they do it'll open up space in the forwards for us and in such a scenario I can see only one outcome. Because there'll be a spare man in the line I wouldn't have any concern there. I think the middle third is where it's going to be won or lost tomorrow.

RockyMills

Have 1 ticket for sale for tomorrow. Section 330 in the lower Hogan. Can meet in Waterford or Dublin tomorrow.

Realt Dearg Sec

Draw

citykat wrote: »

I don't think Wd will be more offensive tomorrow. If they do it'll open up space in the forwards for us and in such a scenario I can see only one outcome. Because there'll be a spare man in the line I wouldn't have any concern there. I think the middle third is where it's going to be won or lost tomorrow.

I hope so, because if fennelly is at full tilt he'll clean up in midfield, especially if Larkin sits deep.

Rightwing

savannahkat wrote: »

Santa Clause and the Tooth fairy are getting married tomorrow as well.

More credible than your other posts.

thinlizzy51

redlead Waterford are negative. cant understand how their supporters dont just admit that.de burca is the sweeper they play more at the back than anyone else.look that's the way they want to go (put dont pretend its something else.