Cork GAA Discussion Thread

ShamoBuc · 18-06-2015 11:39PM

CORKDOUBLE wrote: »

....its over to the Minors now ....

Reckon they will perform very well, some fine players and are training very well apparently, my hopes are high for them.

CORKDOUBLE · 18-06-2015 11:42PM

I forgot to mention Alan Dennehy of course he was very good and I agree TTM should be called up also Kieran Histon looked the part in the small amount of time he was on tough and strong and well built surprise he did not start ....on the senior football panel of course .

DuffleBag · 19-06-2015 09:26AM

CORKDOUBLE wrote: »

I forgot to mention Alan Dennehy of course he was very good and I agree TTM should be called up also Kieran Histon looked the part in the small amount of time he was on tough and strong and well built surprise he did not start ....on the senior football panel of course .

As was mentioned earlier Histon would've started Fullback only for injury. Missed the cork intermediates outing versus Waterford and the Cork Senior/Junior footballers last week due to the same injury. Hadnt much hurling done as a result.

Like TTM said about Dennehy i believe he has all the makings of a full back/man marking corner back. Think of the Rock and Brian Murphy put together.

By all accounts gave Colm O'Neill a bit of a roasting in a challenge match which led to his football call up.

seventh7 · 19-06-2015 10:22AM

commonsense. wrote: »

rebelomar: Re a wake up call for the dinosaurs, we've had so many of these over the last several years that this one will make no difference. Just to remind ourselves, our record in U21 the last 3 years is:
2015: 10 point defeat to Waterford
2014: 15 point defeat to Clare
2013: 15 point defeat to Tipp

N20: "it's all a load of bollocks" may not be my choice of words but in this instance you summed it up perfectly.
Overall you are right, no positives. A few players did ok but another utterly depressing night for Cork hurling. Our forwards in particular were a huge disappointment. Not to blame individuals as everyone there put in a huge effort since last November and tried their absolute best on the night. But as a forward unit we were impotent. I accept it was difficult given the sweeper system we were playing combined with the way Waterford played really really deep.
You reap what you sow and last night was another reminder that what the CCB have been doing to promote hurling for many years now just isn't good enough. The system in Cork does not produce players capable of competing with the best anymore. All very sad really.[/QUOTE

The players are there, There is the nucleus of a brillant side from the minors down to the rebel og U15s. We unfortunatly has a problem when it comes to selecting underage teams. We favour the lighter quicker kids over the bigger slower developing ones. We are sticking to a blueprint for success which is obsolete it worked in the 80s when we outskilled the oposition. Seamus Harnedy should be a case study. Overlooked at underage level he has proven to be by far our most effective weapon. How many Harnedys have we lost in the last decade. I remember a young lad playing in the developement squads, Barrett from Ballyhea, 6ft 3 at 14 Years prolific scorer in all underage games. Continually ovelooked for Cork A underage squads be he simply did not fit the mould. off he went to the Munster Rugby academy.

My point is that we need to change the plan we need to stop designating and naming underage teams A and Bs we need to keep as many as we can engaged. Also we need to instill a pride in jersey by letting them wear the jerseys and not some kit borrowed from Seandun etc. Its time we woke up and realise that the game has changed it requires a new breed of hurler, there will always be a place in the game for the traditional Cork hurler wristy , tricky and mobile but we also need the athletes and enforcers.They are visible on all underage squads but are often ovelooked for lighter boys. The recent Tony Doran tournament in Wexford bore out my opinion when the A squad packed wih underage stars failed to preform. The usual excuses about our wonderful skilful hurlers not Peforming in the bad conditons was diseminated. Bull****, how did the other teams cope how did the supposed substandard b side manage to win all their games against the same opposition. A poster on another site tells us how he spoke to someone involved with the 17 set up and that teams were selected with all the skillful fast hurlers on one team and the stronger lads on the other. Therein lies the problem with Cork underage hurling. If we profile the team selection on past glories all we will ever have is past glories. Time for a reality check, change the focus and we can get back in the game.

deisedude · 19-06-2015 11:00AM

seventh7 wrote: »

commonsense. wrote: »

rebelomar: Re a wake up call for the dinosaurs, we've had so many of these over the last several years that this one will make no difference. Just to remind ourselves, our record in U21 the last 3 years is:
2015: 10 point defeat to Waterford
2014: 15 point defeat to Clare
2013: 15 point defeat to Tipp

N20: "it's all a load of bollocks" may not be my choice of words but in this instance you summed it up perfectly.
Overall you are right, no positives. A few players did ok but another utterly depressing night for Cork hurling. Our forwards in particular were a huge disappointment. Not to blame individuals as everyone there put in a huge effort since last November and tried their absolute best on the night. But as a forward unit we were impotent. I accept it was difficult given the sweeper system we were playing combined with the way Waterford played really really deep.
You reap what you sow and last night was another reminder that what the CCB have been doing to promote hurling for many years now just isn't good enough. The system in Cork does not produce players capable of competing with the best anymore. All very sad really.[/QUOTE

The players are there, There is the nucleus of a brillant side from the minors down to the rebel og U15s. We unfortunatly has a problem when it comes to selecting underage teams. We favour the lighter quicker kids over the bigger slower developing ones. We are sticking to a blueprint for success which is obsolete it worked in the 80s when we outskilled the oposition. Seamus Harnedy should be a case study. Overlooked at underage level he has proven to be by far our most effective weapon. How many Harnedys have we lost in the last decade. I remember a young lad playing in the developement squads, Barrett from Ballyhea, 6ft 3 at 14 Years prolific scorer in all underage games. Continually ovelooked for Cork A underage squads be he simply did not fit the mould. off he went to the Munster Rugby academy.

My point is that we need to change the plan we need to stop designating and naming underage teams A and Bs we need to keep as many as we can engaged. Also we need to instill a pride in jersey by letting them wear the jerseys and not some kit borrowed from Seandun etc. Its time we woke up and realise that the game has changed it requires a new breed of hurler, there will always be a place in the game for the traditional Cork hurler wristy , tricky and mobile but we also need the athletes and enforcers.They are visible on all underage squads but are often ovelooked for lighter boys. The recent Tony Doran tournament in Wexford bore out my opinion when the A squad packed wih underage stars failed to preform. The usual excuses about our wonderful skilful hurlers not Peforming in the bad conditons was diseminated. Bull****, how did the other teams cope how did the supposed substandard b side manage to win all their games against the same opposition. A poster on another site tells us how he spoke to someone involved with the 17 set up and that teams were selected with all the skillful fast hurlers on one team and the stronger lads on the other. Therein lies the problem with Cork underage hurling. If we profile the team selection on past glories all we will ever have is past glories. Time for a reality check, change the focus and we can get back in the game.

Personally I don't think the crux of the issue is down to picking one type of player over the other. The fact of the matter is Cork County Board are more interested in building a white elephant than investing in putting the correct structures in place for young players to prosper. In the interim other counties have put the work in at underage and are reaping the benefits.

Personally I believe Corks run in 2013 out of nowhere gave the county board further time to stick their head in the sand and ignore the issues in front of their noses.

commonsense. · 19-06-2015 01:07PM

seventh7 wrote: »

[QUOTE

The players are there, There is the nucleus of a brillant side from the minors down to the rebel og U15s. We unfortunatly has a problem when it comes to selecting underage teams. We favour the lighter quicker kids over the bigger slower developing ones. We are sticking to a blueprint for success which is obsolete it worked in the 80s when we outskilled the oposition. Seamus Harnedy should be a case study. Overlooked at underage level he has proven to be by far our most effective weapon. How many Harnedys have we lost in the last decade. I remember a young lad playing in the developement squads, Barrett from Ballyhea, 6ft 3 at 14 Years prolific scorer in all underage games. Continually ovelooked for Cork A underage squads be he simply did not fit the mould. off he went to the Munster Rugby academy.

My point is that we need to change the plan we need to stop designating and naming underage teams A and Bs we need to keep as many as we can engaged. Also we need to instill a pride in jersey by letting them wear the jerseys and not some kit borrowed from Seandun etc. Its time we woke up and realise that the game has changed it requires a new breed of hurler, there will always be a place in the game for the traditional Cork hurler wristy , tricky and mobile but we also need the athletes and enforcers.They are visible on all underage squads but are often ovelooked for lighter boys. The recent Tony Doran tournament in Wexford bore out my opinion when the A squad packed wih underage stars failed to preform. The usual excuses about our wonderful skilful hurlers not Peforming in the bad conditons was diseminated. Bull****, how did the other teams cope how did the supposed substandard b side manage to win all their games against the same opposition. A poster on another site tells us how he spoke to someone involved with the 17 set up and that teams were selected with all the skillful fast hurlers on one team and the stronger lads on the other. Therein lies the problem with Cork underage hurling. If we profile the team selection on past glories all we will ever have is past glories. Time for a reality check, change the focus and we can get back in the game.

Oh it were that simple. Our problems run so much deeper than just picking or not picking the right type of player.

commonsense. · 19-06-2015 01:19PM

deisedude wrote: »

seventh7 wrote: »

Personally I don't think the crux of the issue is down to picking one type of player over the other. The fact of the matter is Cork County Board are more interested in building a white elephant than investing in putting the correct structures in place for young players to prosper. In the interim other counties have put the work in at underage and are reaping the benefits.

Personally I believe Corks run in 2013 out of nowhere gave the county board further time to stick their head in the sand and ignore the issues in front of their noses.

Absolutely spot on. And you are so right that the seniors getting to the AI two years ago simply allowed the CCB to spin that everything is OK in Cork hurling.
And yes, other counties have been doing everything so much better than Cork for several years now. That's why everybody bar none have passed Cork out. Jesus even Laois are closing the gap on us (no disresrect to any Laois readers - great work being done there and I give ye a great chance of getting to yer second Leinster minor final in 3 years this year). Of all sports unless hurling is 'nurtured' properly it begins to go into a slow decline which is precisely what has happened in Cork. And unfortunately I see no glimmer of light at the end of the tunnel.

youngbob · 19-06-2015 01:20PM

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

DuffleBag I agree Dennehy definitely showed a lot of promise to full back for Cork not seen since that bar one of game man of the match debut Eoin cadogan v tipp Cork seven years or so ago have never filled the place of the rock or to be absolutey brutally honest even close in having a effective coherent full back who plays the position rather than the man imo.

That's a problem that good prevention coaching at under age that cork are at last doing in seeing there's a a deprivation of talent at one area of the field so there's focus to work on that at under age and spot potential talent, nourish the talent, guide the talent allow it evolve and in times hopefully be a long term solutions at intercounty level

Dennehy imo what made him stand out in what emphasis the story of he's game in essence was he had to go off with blood pouring down he's face at the end
Now don't pick me up wrong not in the slightest am I advocate I want see blood on a Cork player or indeed any player, no not at all at all but my point was it showed he was in the wars right from the start of the game and he never took a backwardness step not even once
He was always like a full back must be in the thick of the action.

I was hugely impressed by he's edgy style in he like all the great great great i mean the really really great full backs like the rock, curran, lohan, Hickey, Richie mac, jj delaney etc they had the cynical edge, not dirty now but that no man and ball passed at one time in they gave away the free, one point better than three to have conceded.

Foran beat him to two high balls and was bearing down for goals but he stood tall something corner backs by instinct don't or can't be expected to do, and pulled down he's man.

Foran is the type of player that cork struggle with, he's big and robust and strong physical wise, he's great in the air and he's direct
Dennehy conceded just one point but even when beaten to a ball he was never dragged from the square so compare and contrast to the senior game with mcdommell who was dragged all over the place and never held he's line I thought for the ist time in a age we actually may have a player that has an appreciation and understanding for he's role and doesn't try and outhurl he's man or attack the ball, he's holy grail is he's square
He marked zonal than man to man which there's a huge difference in and corner backs like mcdommell Murphy and o Neill are man markers as they have the instinct and wrist hurling to man marking the kelly, Cian lynch, mulchay, McGrath, dwyer, etc but no good against the callilan, power, Walter Walsh, dowling, McDonald, shanhahan, honan, cunningjham, etc in there opponents thrives on high ball and powering through direct in on goal.

Dennehy can't be a man marker on kelly, lynch as that's not he's game but he could be suited with coaching to the dowling, cunningjham and other lads I mentioned above type style as he is good under the high ball, has an edge and abrasive nature to he's hurling and is good under the high ball and from centre back he showed he's plenty of hurling on both sides in he won't get blocked down easily either.
He's fast also and can turn.

He has potential but we don't know how good he'll be unless he gets games
He may or may not be the answer but he looks to have something and riche mac was not great at the start but he showed potential and he developed over time as he had the characteristics and hall marks of a full back
From what I saw all year dennehy had signs but last night was the key test and he was good imo against tough opponent in Foran so he has potential.

He also bravely denied a Dunford goal with a brave block
He was always in communication with those around him also
I don't mind a full back loosing up to three points once no goals go in I'm happy and he was excellent on that regard, the goal was scored when he was off the field.

Cork should call him up the senior and train now as he can't play this year intermediate over played last year so a player like him can only develop he's game further by continuing exposure at intercounty.

Dennehy is lucky in he's at club he has the excellent coaching expertise of limerick Peter finn who coached inter county limerick teams at different grades and lot at club also and cit had pat mulchay and last year and this year had Liam Hayes coaching him with Cork.
He will imo develop and fact charville play him at centre back allows the crisp hurling to be consistent but the problem is if he is going to be Cork senior he needs regular games at full back

I wouldn't start him full back the next day but I would call him up the senior panel and train and if cork got handy draw have him on the panel and next year play him all during the league but in the ist two games play him at corner back like the rock did at the start of he's career, then move him to full back

Bottom line is o Neill mcdommell and Murphy are fine players but they were or never will be full backs or even come close to it.
Dennehy has to be tested at senior but he offers Cork hope in he done well last year at intermediate and now under twenty one and for cit
That might be the one huge positive from the sadness of last night but it's up to landers and JBM to act now on what they saw and imo no excuse not seeing he's potential when that game on TV allows them to video assess he's game in detail.
Hopefully he gets a call up now after last night.
A full back doesn't have to stand out like a corner back in a game with spectacular hurling , once he's not cleaned out its a job well done and Dennhry all credit due done he's job effectively and successfully in every way last night.

I can honestly say what I have seen of Dennehy he has never let CIT down. Good awareness & very hard to get in behind. I'm surprised JBM didn't give him a good league this year

thinkstoomuch1 · 19-06-2015 02:15PM

Gary Neville wrote: »

I can't see how the criticism of Cutbert is justified at this point in time.

He was absolutely brutal last year and deserved every bit, and more, of the criticism he got.

However, he has done much better this year. Morale seems infinitely better. We topped the league in spite of 4 trips North when many expected us to be in a relegation dog-fight. OK, we were very poor in the league final and Dublin out-witted us completely. But it looks as if Cubby had to win the league to be adjudged to be doing well. OK, we gave Clare a few goal chances but that game was about winning well and we did. Remember Limerick always troubled us in the Counihan era.

Cuthbert has brought back AOC and Paddy O Shea - he picked Cronin in the corner and Donncha, Hurley and CON are flying. I think we have to be fair to the guy. At least reserve judgement until after the Munster Final.

I'm yet to to convinced about the man and our implementation of the blanket defence suggests lack of defensive coaching but the first c/ship test is Killarney and who knows how we'll do. If the management and team adopt the negative attitude of some supporters then we may as well turn back when we get to Ballyvourney.

Let's be realistic here
Hurley and colm were flying long before cuthbhert joined and look at Sunday they hardly got fast ball so their return was poor through no fault their own

Donnacha was outstanding but he's always been
O Connor was okay but didn't last or won't a full game
Cronin coming in should been there sooner but was actually played out of position at times

No cuthbhertt did have not to win the league do well
All he had to do was play lads in best position get a settled half back line and do what kerry done last year and Dublin this year in short space of time in implementation of a successful blanket defence that he's team is no where near it
And to sort midfield
The same mistake are being made over and over again
Now fair enough your view is your own but what your saying imo has no logic from performance to back it up
Is moral better really
If so why did Cork fold to Dublin and last three challenge matches and clare who could got three fifteen show up the poor problem we have
What have you to say on performance moral is better

Fair enough you want to belive Paul krttigsn who usually at press days and gives lot interview under cuthbhert and talks the usual talk Cork have turned full circle etc

I prefer to judge on performance and performance against clare with load out let's be honest now was poor
Donegal conceded nine points to armagh and Dublin ten to Longford
See my point
Cork struggle contain clare attack missing key players
Far from impressive imo

commonsense. · 19-06-2015 03:05PM

http://www.irishexaminer.com/viewpoints/yourview/cork-county-board-needs-to-take-blame-for-failings-on-the-pitch-337756.html

DuffleBag · 19-06-2015 03:58PM

commonsense. wrote: »

Good letter, although the answer to "where are our team from 2000's" or whatever has already been discussed here. A lot are involved in some capacity at underage level. Sully with the Cork U16's for example (Na Piarsaigh's Podge Gould as an aside is also involved with them) but i get where the sender is coming from

thinkstoomuch1 · 19-06-2015 04:39PM

commonsense. wrote: »

http://www.irishexaminer.com/viewpoints/yourview/cork-county-board-needs-to-take-blame-for-failings-on-the-pitch-337756.html

All saying what we already know and good read but it be lucky be even read by top board ccb

Connorzee · 19-06-2015 04:59PM

Larry Tompkins has been announced as the new fresher football manager with UCC for 2015/16. I wonder does this mean Billy Mogz stepping down and Tomás O'Sé stepping up to sigerson from the freshers. Any thoughts?

zetecescort · 19-06-2015 05:04PM

commonsense. wrote: »

http://www.irishexaminer.com/viewpoints/yourview/cork-county-board-needs-to-take-blame-for-failings-on-the-pitch-337756.html

Surprised the paper printed that tbh. No chance of the top table taking any notice but maybe any decent delegate might.

thinkstoomuch1 · 19-06-2015 05:19PM

http://www.eveningecho.ie/sport/the-rock-negativity-harming-cork-hurling/
It's a bit of sea change from the mind-set of some one directly in the strikes and knew the difference between negative views and realistic was he was deemed negative like other in the ist strike but it wasn't he was realistic with other know Cork needed change and wasn't being negative for the sake of it

Surprised he's change mindset but the Cork minor depending this year and possibly senior coming up down the line so maybes he wants to heal old wounds which is correct but he needs to remember all the strikes he fought adamantly for to be fair as many said one man or few definitely were blame for them and have no doubt strikes affected Cork hurling and sullivan should know that too well in o grady cunningjham even JBM wanted under twenty one five years ago but couldn't pick he own selectors and none Cusack gardiner ever get job Cork hurling all side listed due to the strikes so it's wrong to say that board don't have huge part all this when the penny will actually drop when JBM goes and Cork find it hard get replacement when cunningjham was never interview even for the job and only there just like landers is with ring in JBM and ring brought them in

He's oblivious to the fact some the board still haven't moved on from the past and I think sullivan surely knows that but no doubt he's wise enough know won't get Cork job so trying mellow a bit and suddenly be totally for them

This talk rebel academic is correct on weekends but the rock forgets the woeful number gdo Cork have and look at amount money invested under twenty one compared waterford terms gear etc way way way off

Cork still unfortunately won't give jobs to certain people
He's on about negative views harming Cork he'd swear Cork public genuine fans like critsed no they don't they hate to but the lack realism is why minor and under twenty one and senior is why it is and only one call it as is was prout shamrocks fella and Cusack etc

He didn't one mention Cork need a director of hurling or once mention proven coaches be given jobs
He's right more club men should be involved but some don't as they know it's no thanks scenario you work off your own time expense then some ccb favourite gets a job down the line to erase all the hard work
He should called for o grady etc be involved but didn't

He's some points but it's clear huge change of mind-set here from him and you would wonder why
On he's record with under sixteen he shouldn't be given the minor job just yet but could be if he proved himself
Be interesting to see if former players he's agree with him
He said the fall out ten years success wise over lads taking eye off the ball
I think ccb are huge part in never appointed proper under twenty one minor or senior coaches after it or changed the club scene where standard is appalling at all levels

But I suppose look that's been too negative and fans are to blame for that
Fans sullivan should remember were the very ones supported him and he's lads when he wanted support and hopefully he'll remember fans most genuine and not reason Cork hurling is where it is but rather a creation of the boards neglect lack innovation and investment where all eyes on the stadium and as Cusack called it the centre of mediocrity
Rock huge fan of one my heroes but he's imo not keeping negativity and realism apart
Imo there's a huge difference in being negative without justified cause which is wrong or being realistic based on the events at all levels Cork hurling the last ten years or so

thinkstoomuch1 · 19-06-2015 05:22PM

Connorzee wrote: »

Larry Tompkins has been announced as the new fresher football manager with UCC for 2015/16. I wonder does this mean Billy Mogz stepping down and Tomás O'Sé stepping up to sigerson from the freshers. Any thoughts?

Well look i don't want to come across as negative all the time but look at Larry views current state game rules he wants, he's record management, views on dual codes
Imo he's too old school and certainly just my opinion I hope it works but don't think it will
I think o se may be stepping up
Tompkins isn't a patch on o se coach
Great great player for Cork though

thinkstoomuch1 · 19-06-2015 05:27PM

zetecescort wrote: »

Surprised the paper printed that tbh. No chance of the top table taking any notice but maybe any decent delegate might.

One voice singing in the rain won't make a blind bit of difference
Only way for change is unity but clubs won't do that as some look out for themselves
The last strike showed that
Cork needs complete change at board level with new innovative ideas not ideas of the past old days

thinkstoomuch1 · 19-06-2015 05:34PM

The last line summed up problem cultural attuide Cork gaa in whatever else happens we got be positive and supportive
Something you could hear from the board
The best support Cork gaa needs is positive when needed negative when due but most importantly honesty within and realism as like leinster rugby years ago and Cork ladies football went from no hopes to legends it only happen as they were honest enough to be ruthless off and on the field to change their sporting culture
Not surprised by the usual reaction to Wednesday but I'm hugely surprised the rock changed wind so fast from the core values he fought for Cork in he's day off the field of play

TyrionPower · 19-06-2015 05:44PM

Reading some of the posts here and Looking back on it, reaching the 2013 All-Ireland was probably the worst thing to happen Cork in recent history. It totally papered over the cracks of relegation and poor underage performances - a poor championship in 2013 may have resulted in action.

I still don't know how one person could have so much control for so long. Is it not a democratic organisation.

I doubt the cork Gaa public are happy with the monument - so how is it going ahead? It is after all yer money.
This sad for hurling and the Gaa to see Cork like this - how we here in Waterford have benefitted from generous cork hurling men down the years.

Gary Neville · 19-06-2015 06:15PM

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

Let's be realistic here
Hurley and colm were flying long before cuthbhert joined and look at Sunday they hardly got fast ball so their return was poor through no fault their own

Donnacha was outstanding but he's always been
O Connor was okay but didn't last or won't a full game
Cronin coming in should been there sooner but was actually played out of position at times

No cuthbhertt did have not to win the league do well
All he had to do was play lads in best position get a settled half back line and do what kerry done last year and Dublin this year in short space of time in implementation of a successful blanket defence that he's team is no where near it
And to sort midfield
The same mistake are being made over and over again
Now fair enough your view is your own but what your saying imo has no logic from performance to back it up
Is moral better really
If so why did Cork fold to Dublin and last three challenge matches and clare who could got three fifteen show up the poor problem we have
What have you to say on performance moral is better

Fair enough you want to belive Paul krttigsn who usually at press days and gives lot interview under cuthbhert and talks the usual talk Cork have turned full circle etc

I prefer to judge on performance and performance against clare with load out let's be honest now was poor
Donegal conceded nine points to armagh and Dublin ten to Longford
See my point
Cork struggle contain clare attack missing key players
Far from impressive imo

You are missing my point.

I'm far from being a Cuthbert Supporter and IMO the decision to appoint him in the first place was disgraceful but nothing new from the CB.

His first year was a shambles and he alienated the squad. Many were seriously considering their future and AFAIK some even wanted to try to get him removed - but that was never on.

The players decided on a 'clear the air' meeting and whilst there was no guarantees made by management - they did not dismiss the players' point of view. I spoke to a 2010 AI winner and he referred to the meeting and thought morale was much improved. The performances in the league, particularly in the North, seem to support this.

However, our defending is still poor and although we get number back, it looks as if they are not sure exactly what they should be doing. There is obviously a major issue in getting the ball quickly to our scoring forwards. Dropping Goold and Clancy also begs some questions.
The very poor performance in challenge games is very worrying too - it looks as if the Dubin hammering has really rattled confidence.

It does look as if Cuthbert is out of his depth and there's a fair chance that we'll be well beaten in Killarney.

However, we simple have to hold off judgement on his 2nd year until after the Munster Final, at least.

I don't know if Masters has regular contact with current squad members ir if he's just guessing. If he's in the loop then we are probably goosed.

I'll admit the signs are fairly worrying but I'm just hoping the players want to atone for last year and will be highly motivated by O Se's accusation that when it's put up to them they roll over and lie down.

Smith614 · 19-06-2015 09:52PM

Our senior, intermediate and junior clubs record is very poor in the Munster championship for past few yrs. it seems to be a problem from grassroots to the top. The ordinary club teams are getting taught lessons when competing in Munster club championship. It runs deeper than poor management at inter county level.

CORKDOUBLE · 19-06-2015 10:07PM

Savage win for Beara tonight against U.C.C. in the county championship .....Beara sorted out those Kerry fellas well done to them...How did Aidan Walsh play for Duhallow tonight the beat Carrigdhoun in the hurling championship.

clerk · 20-06-2015 01:24PM

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

Not surprised by the usual reaction to Wednesday but I'm hugely surprised the rock changed wind so fast from the core values he fought for Cork in he's day off the field of play

I think you're getting a bit carried away there. All he said was I'm not taking sides. He was trying to get a point across and if he had anything it would have negative headlines which is all the other papers apart from the Echo are interested in.

He's won All-Irelands for Cork, he's a great club servant, he's coaching the U16s and now he's trying to show a bit of leadership as he always did on the pitch with the tone of the article.

The song "Can't do right for doing wrong" springs to mind.

thinkstoomuch1 · 20-06-2015 02:53PM

clerk wrote: »

I think you're getting a bit carried away there. All he said was I'm not taking sides. He was trying to get a point across and if he had anything it would have negative headlines which is all the other papers apart from the Echo are interested in.

He's won All-Irelands for Cork, he's a great club servant, he's coaching the U16s and now he's trying to show a bit of leadership as he always did on the pitch with the tone of the article.

The song "Can't do right for doing wrong" springs to mind.

Where did I say he never one all Ireland with Cork or indeed great club
Did I not say he was my hero
Point is its not hard to see he has mellowed hugely from he's staunch views past maybe and I hoped it's not the case but this don't blame ccb when yes he's right lot other had parts to play the club scene etc but remember ccb are huge huge part demise Cork hurling and I would hope sullivan while yes no one ever wins against the ccb I hope he's not thinking the old proverb don't beat them join them

It's imo made few points but he cherry picked a little and old attitude results don't matter etc etc producing players not really good enough and he almost sounded like board bar good old mushrooms theory

He could mentioned the club scene, director hurling and while he said Cork took eye of the ball why not mention and he should know as he wanted him at the time cunningjham Cork job
Cork hurling is affected by famine in club game all levels dire and under age hasn't helped but have no doubt appointment Denis Walsh two years after McCarthy didn't help Cork hurling and the fact good coaches over looked any some will always be due to the strikes he didn't want to mention

Now no one Cork had great interest in reliving strikes to be honest however sullivan while I'd doesn't want go in it fair enough but then no need to spin doctor that board hasn't huge part to play or rebel og is great he says
If he's going say what wrong Cork hurling surely God director hurling and a clear out ccb needed

Rebel og doing huge huge work lot volunteers etc but partly funded by the board and sullivan should mentioned that often some of coaches these teams aren't involved at minor where they should be

Like landers is the exception but ring brought him in not the board
Sullivan doing huge work no doubt but he's record under sixteen still has work to do as few for example here seventh the poster had doubts be fair regards he's coaching at the start and I'd say he wouldn't be convinced totally in him as coach so far
Rock was great great player owed Cork nothing absolutely nothing
My points is though I don't agree with he's let be positive for sake it when things are bad

Positivity my view is radical review nothing held back review Cork hurling from bottom to top a complete restructure with a defined five year plan with minimum targets set all levels, new mandate referring Cork and club scene changed and only proven coaches experience interview for any Cork job
A director of hurling and rebel og fully backed by ccb and at least twenty gdo

The usual don't be negativity don't be harsh dare most critsed structure or organisation Cork gaa but look were doing our best , we know there's problems within but look let's smile and forget the concerns
That's always been problem Cork gaa
It denies extent problems so you can fix it when ist step is acceptance problems that exist within gaa in cork

Germany had a ruthless radical complete over haul their game from grass roots up about six years ago and that's why they won the world cup
They despite getting world cup around thirteen years ago with one poorest teams reach final didn't rest laurel thru knew they had fallen back
Germany didn't do negative views they done realism
Realism and Cork gaa imo is likely oil end water they don't mix well at times and things won't change unless Cork get realistic radical change needed in cork
But it's the same old story
Cork get beaten under age etc, two days later some big ex name putting bit spin on it missing key points, probably want raise a whisper at ccb meeting but if it any one asks they be told not on the agenda for debate and be accused having agenda themselves

Weeks months pass and then where in the same place next year and some then wonder why where going ten years and counting no all Ireland nearly eighteen for under twenty one and fifteen for a minor and eleven club all Ireland

thinkstoomuch1 · 20-06-2015 03:05PM

clerk wrote: »

I think you're getting a bit carried away there. All he said was I'm not taking sides. He was trying to get a point across and if he had anything it would have negative headlines which is all the other papers apart from the Echo are interested in.

He's won All-Irelands for Cork, he's a great club servant, he's coaching the U16s and now he's trying to show a bit of leadership as he always did on the pitch with the tone of the article.

The song "Can't do right for doing wrong" springs to mind.

I like your reference to a song and this song springs to mind for me
If tomorrow never comes
The real unfortunately essence that's becoming Cork gaa
Maybe board get good old Gareth brooks sing in the over prized stadium and to be honest words have lot resemblance Cork gaa

Always a false promise always things never that bad yet times passes in the blink of an eye and nothing changes all because the extent problems never seen what they are but always denial

commonsense. · 20-06-2015 03:07PM

clerk wrote:

I think you're getting a bit carried away there. All he said was I'm not taking sides. He was trying to get a point across and if he had anything it would have negative headlines which is all the other papers apart from the Echo are interested in.

Ah I can't really agree with you there. I'm very disappointed with that piece from The Rock if I'm being honest. It sounds like a party political broadcast on behalf of the CCB.
He uses the collective 'we' ("we are all responsible") to effectively absolve the board the board of their responsibility. If he is to be believed all we need to do is lose the negativity and get behind our teams and all will be well.
He goes on about Rebel Og and the great work going into the development squads. Sure we all know a huge amount of people are making a huge amount of effort. Nobody is questioning that side of things.
And then he tells us we will start seeing results from here on in. Where have we heard that before.
In some ways I pity this years minors. Unnecessary pressure being put on them to deliver and then if they do happen to beat the archaic Cork player development system and achieve something they will have CCB officials fawning all over them as proof positive that all is rosy in the Cork hurling garden.
With regard to The Rock, me thinks the leopard might have changed his spots.

thinkstoomuch1 · 20-06-2015 03:12PM

commonsense. wrote: »

Ah I can't really agree with you there. I'm very disappointed with that piece from The Rock if I'm being honest. It sounds like a party political broadcast on behalf of the CCB.
He uses the collective 'we' ("we are all responsible") to effectively absolve the board the board of their responsibility. If he is to be believed all we need to do is lose the negativity and get behind our teams and all will be well.
He goes on about Rebel Og and the great work going into the development squads. Sure we all know a huge amount of people are making a huge amount of effort. Nobody is questioning that side of things.
And then he tells us we will start seeing results from here on in. Where have we heard that before.
In some ways I pity this years minors. Unnecessary pressure being put on them to deliver and then if they do happen to beat the archaic Cork player development system and achieve something they will have CCB officials fawning all over them as proof positive that all is rosy in the Cork hurling garden.
With regard to The Rock, me thinks the leopard might have changed his spots.

Absolutely spot on
Great post
Why do think the rock has mellowed
Is it cause he wants the minor job himself etc

thinkstoomuch1 · 20-06-2015 03:24PM

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/may/23/germany-bust-boom-talent
Yes it's soccer and professional but the ethos attuide German Cork could take note
Germany made changes years ago even when team got world cup final knew things were wrong
They evolved process further few years later
Clare hurling the same in seanie McMahon with others done reviews what was needed then changed again few years later and clare were successful under age
You see Germans like all blacks like kerry Kilkenny this world and man United will dip a bit naturally but won't stay down for long as they protect their legacy rather than live past glories

Some in cork live off two years ago and as sad it's say Cork winning that all Ireland would never ever buried mushrooms theory
Back nine years ago a well known Cork gaa man said Cork all Ireland run four years was still hiding over cracks in under age had problems but was being ignored
Here we are nine years later
Every single day Cork loose delaying the recovery process it's a day longer to the return to the top

youngbob · 20-06-2015 10:06PM

youghal beat killeagh 11pts to 12. Cooper did ok in patches. he dug deep when he was really needed. Joe Deane had a good 1st half but seemed to be injured in the last 10mins. unusual for him he missed an easy free but he was not the reason killeagh came up short. the sideline will have to look at their part. Joe still has a great touch. an incredible hurler. Overall the standard was poor

Rebel norrie · 20-06-2015 10:21PM

youngbob wrote: »

youghal beat killeagh 11pts to 12. Cooper did ok in patches. he dug deep when he was really needed. Joe Deane had a good 1st half but seemed to be injured in the last 10mins. unusual for him he missed an easy free but he was not the reason killeagh came up short. the sideline will have to look at their part. Joe still has a great touch. an incredible hurler. Overall the standard was poor

Shocking game. Good to see ref try and leave things flow a bit. Deane was injured 5 mins into second half. How their line did not make a change is bad. Cooper did ok. Killeagh are in serious trouble this year.

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