Dublin Airport New Runway/Infrastructure.

FridaysWell · 06-05-2015 10:56pm

Razor44 wrote: »

Quick question about the west apron, as i understand it cant be used for, say busing passengers out to aircraft on stands there? as it has no water to the stands etc, is security also a problem? just wondering if anyone could shed some light on why its pretty much a failure? or was it supposed to be an overflow? iv always wondered why its hardly used.

The main issue with using the west apron for bussing passengers, is you've to cross an 'active' runway to get to the terminals. Also, from a security perspective, it's in a demarcated zone.

Its main use is as a parking/overflow for aircraft; also, if 16 34 were to become redundant, by building a parallel runway, it would become exponentially more useful for bussing etc. In addition there would be more 'space' to extend/reconfigure the existing piers to make better use of the space thats there.:pac::pac:

Strumms · 06-05-2015 11:02pm

Razor44 wrote: »

Quick question about the west apron, as i understand it cant be used for, say busing passengers out to aircraft on stands there? as it has no water to the stands etc, is security also a problem? just wondering if anyone could shed some light on why its pretty much a failure? or was it supposed to be an overflow? iv always wondered why its hardly used.

I don't know if there is any hard and fast rule the DAA have regarding ops @ the west apron, however I did attempt to dispatch an empty aircraft from there a couple of years ago and the fuelers wouldn't even go over. Plus I have never seen an aircraft be loaded with pax or otherwise over there which leads me to believe it's strictly for overflow parking.

It is unsuitable for regular ops as it can be a 25-30 min drive out there depending on your starting point, so you can never board pax onto a bus 1 hour before departure, you can get held up on the perimeter road by the Rescue chopper if that just even has the rotars going... And I'm not sure the road is suitable for a bus now I think of it. Just too far and out of the way.

billie1b · 06-05-2015 11:09pm

Strumms wrote: »

I don't know if there is any hard and fast rule the DAA have regarding ops @ the west apron, however I did attempt to dispatch an empty aircraft from there a couple of years ago and the fuelers wouldn't even go over. Plus I have never seen an aircraft be loaded with pax or otherwise over there which leads me to believe it's strictly for overflow parking.

It is unsuitable for regular ops as it can be a 25-30 min drive out there depending on your starting point, so you can never board pax onto a bus 1 hour before departure, you can get held up on the perimeter road by the Rescue chopper if that just even has the rotars going... And I'm not sure the road is suitable for a bus now I think of it. Just too far and out of the way.

Not saying you're wrong but i've had loads of aircraft prefuelled over there, the Peri road can accept fuel bowsers and buses but as you said it a long aul journey especily if the SAR is rotating. Great aul journey though to waste a bit of the day away.
Off topic but I got stuck there one day at the SAR hangar, was recording the chopper doing its procedures and my bloody phone went dead, I was gutted, it was a great video

Razor44 · 06-05-2015 11:12pm

Thanks for the answers lads!

I'm assuming an underpass beneath 16/34 would help things(as an aside). Also, demarcated area as in off limits outside the airport area? albet not physically.

Strumms · 06-05-2015 11:15pm

billie1b wrote: »

Not saying you're wrong but i've had loads of aircraft prefuelled over there, the Peri road can accept fuel bowsers and buses but as you said it a long aul journey especily if the SAR is rotating. Great aul journey though to waste a bit of the day away.
Off topic but I got stuck there one day at the SAR hangar, was recording the chopper doing its procedures and my bloody phone went dead, I was gutted, it was a great video

The rationale of the fueler was that he was too busy, it was also a weather event as in heavy snow, including the fuelling (wide body a/c) and the trip time including re clearing security on the way back it could have been 90 mins so in fairness you couldn't blame him in those circumstances. I don't get over that way much but I always cross my fingers that the chopper is manouvering I got lucky twice and I agree it's quite a sight to be that close, just hovering feet away from you.

Strumms · 06-05-2015 11:21pm

Razor44 wrote: »

Thanks for the answers lads!

I'm assuming an underpass beneath 16/34 would help things(as an aside). Also, demarcated area as in off limits outside the airport area? albet not physically.

The road starts almost opposite where hanger 6 is all be it not quite that far up and makes its way to the perimeter fence and all the way to the west apron, it's a longer trip then you'd realise and in fact you need a special permit and training to get out there in addition to your regular airside driving training.

billie1b · 06-05-2015 11:23pm

You have different airport ID badges, Landside, Airside etc etc. All people on the Apron/Ramp area have an Airside pass but its restricted to only certain areas - ie : ramp, apron and certain taxi-ways, to be able to access the West Apron you need either an Airside pass with B+P driving access or an Airside Red pass.
Only a few tug drivers, engineers, bus drivers, fuellers and all ramp trainers will have Airside with B+P.
Ops, Airport Police/Fire/Ambulance service will have Airside Red. If you don't have Airside B+P or Airside Red and you are caught in the reatricted areas your badge is removed and you may be sacked.
There are exceptions, you can be in restricted zones if you are being escorted by a suitable pass holder

Razor44 · 06-05-2015 11:25pm

Thanks Billie and strumms. ..it's starting to make sense to me now

billie1b · 06-05-2015 11:35pm

Razor44 wrote: »

Thanks Billie and strumms. ..it's starting to make sense to me now

No probs, happy to help when I can.
A tunnel under 16/34 would be great but can never see it happening, I measured the distance one day from the start to finish of the Peri road, now it was about 4 years ago, think it was something like 4 or 5 kilometres, can't exactly remember. I'll measure it again some day soon but for an example, I travelled it in a tug many times, I usually start at the point outside Hangar 4 and the tug goes 40km/h and I end on the West Apron, with no stops or restrictions it takes me about 15 minutes to complete the journey compared to starting on stand 111R and crossing the fox inners/outers, papas, 16/34 to the west apron, that takes me about 3 minutes.

Razor44 · 06-05-2015 11:42pm

that's some distance!

lord lucan · 07-05-2015 12:07am

Strumms wrote: »

Plus I have never seen an aircraft be loaded with pax or otherwise over there which leads me to believe it's strictly for overflow parking.

POTUS boarded Airforce One there! :pac:

billie1b · 07-05-2015 12:17am

Razor44 wrote: »

that's some distance!

Here's a link to a picture of the perimeter road, well part of it. It begins at the red mark on the right of the picture and follows the black highlighted line all the way around to the fire station. Most airside badges B+P access ends just after this point, from then the road turns right and goes all the way down 10/28 to the very end, turns left and goes along the back of said runways, turns left again and follows the old airport road the whole stretch of 10/28, turns at the end/top of the runways and continues along until the cargo hangars.
I only got the privilege of travelling the whole rosd once and I loved it.
I cant embed the picture for some reason, i've been trying for a few days to post pictures but the site keeps crashing on me when I click on the picture frame, maybe one of the mods can embed it.

http://i1274.photobucket.com/albums/y425/billie1b/59FB886A-07F4-450B-B36D-728343350025_zpsgh5xldnf.jpg

Strumms · 07-05-2015 2:19am

lord lucan wrote: »

POTUS boarded Airforce One there! :pac:

Bahh.. and the fuel vendor said no to me ?

07-05-2015 7:01am

A tunnel under 16/34 will NEVER happen as there is not enough room between the runway and taxiways or apron for a tunnel to be built legally and have the portals in suitable positions, it's has been looked at by the DAA who were too intent on squeezing in stands over by the terminals and at the time weren't looking at putting in a tunnel, they now won't sacrifice stands to build a tunnel to the west apron.

Carawaystick · 08-05-2015 4:09pm

IngazZagni wrote: »

Apparently the Irish Government changed the rules in 1997 so that only Irish or UK citizens don't have to show their passport on UK-Ireland flights and as these flights will often have people from outside these regions they put everyone through passport control. Irish or UK citizens apparently only need to show their boarding pass and a form of photo ID.

Really used to grind my gears queueing when arriving from Cork.

I assumed once pierD was built that flights in the cta would come through pierA and be passport check free, but sher there isn't even a transit capability through terminal2...

LXFlyer · 08-05-2015 4:16pm

Carawaystick wrote: »

Really used to grind my gears queueing when arriving from Cork.

I assumed once pierD was built that flights in the cta would come through pierA and be passport check free, but sher there isn't even a transit capability through terminal2...

So how would you check people who are not from Ireland or Britain and who are not entitled to enter Ireland without a visa/passport check?

The freedom of movement with no requirement to carry a passport only extends to Irish and British citizens.

MJohnston · 08-05-2015 4:21pm

lxflyer wrote: »

So how would you check people who are not from Ireland or Britain and who are not entitled to enter Ireland without a visa/passport check?

The freedom of movement with no requirement to carry a passport only extends to Irish and British citizens.

Does the new Joint Visa deal not mean that everyone arriving from Britain should be fine to just stroll in?

LXFlyer · 08-05-2015 4:35pm

MJohnston wrote: »

Does the new Joint Visa deal not mean that everyone arriving from Britain should be fine to just stroll in?

That's only for certain countries (China and India initially). And as I understand it, it's not planned to be introduced for all countries either.

So there will still have to be a passport/ID check.

MJohnston · 08-05-2015 4:48pm

Ah right, that's a shame, I suppose.

Avada · 09-05-2015 6:41pm

MJohnston wrote: »

Does the new Joint Visa deal not mean that everyone arriving from Britain should be fine to just stroll in?

As said BIVS is only China and India.

15-05-2015 12:54pm

April Passenger Numbers Up 11% To 2 MillionMay 15 2015Just over two million passengers used Dublin Airport in April, an 11% increase on the same period last year, according to daa. Passenger volumes to and from Continental Europe grew by 9% with almost 1.1 million passengers travelling to and from continental European destinations in April. UK traffic increased by 13%, as almost 732,000 passengers travelled to and from the UK last month. Transatlantic passenger volumes grew by 5%, with almost 165,000 passengers travelling to and from North America in April. Other international traffic, predominantly to the Middle East, recorded a 23% increase, as almost 62,000 passengers travelled to and from these destinations in April. Domestic traffic rose by 16%, with more than 6,000 passengers travelling on domestic routes in April. Almost 6.8 million passengers have travelled through Dublin Airport in the first four months of this year, which is a 15% increase over the same period last year. This means that Dublin Airport has welcomed an extra 870,000 passengers so far this year.

Which would total out at approx 22.6 million if no extra passengers were added in last 8 months of the year.

L1011 · 15-05-2015 1:01pm

The domestic traffic growth continuing is interesting - we're now comparing pretty much the same volume of flights and only slightly increased capacity on CFN (which wasn't at capacity) year on year. Arguably they're at worse times that before too.

If domestic flying is continuing to grow at that kind of rate there's some decent signs that a Cork route might be workable again...

Carawaystick · 15-05-2015 3:30pm

lxflyer wrote: »

So how would you check people who are not from Ireland or Britain and who are not entitled to enter Ireland without a visa/passport check?

The freedom of movement with no requirement to carry a passport only extends to Irish and British citizens.

I don't know, but I didn't like having to queue in a passport check to travel from one part of the country to another.

I never had to do this flying to Britain.

LXFlyer · 15-05-2015 3:36pm

Carawaystick wrote: »

I don't know, but I didn't like having to queue in a passport check to travel from one part of the country to another.

I never had to do this flying to Britain.

I'd agree totally about the domestic flights - but you added CTA into the equation which is different as freedom of movement extends only to Irish & UK citizens.

Well there was, for the first time for me, a passport/ID check at London City off a flight from Dublin this week.

LXFlyer · 15-05-2015 3:39pm

L1011 wrote: »

The domestic traffic growth continuing is interesting - we're now comparing pretty much the same volume of flights and only slightly increased capacity on CFN (which wasn't at capacity) year on year. Arguably they're at worse times that before too.

If domestic flying is continuing to grow at that kind of rate there's some decent signs that a Cork route might be workable again...

Difficult to know.

The two domestic destinations served are in areas that don't have good road connections with Dublin, unlike Cork.

Avada · 15-05-2015 3:48pm

Carawaystick wrote: »

I don't know, but I didn't like having to queue in a passport check to travel from one part of the country to another.

I never had to do this flying to Britain.

It's very necessary and I can see the brits reintroducing checks on CTA flights. The abuse of the CTA by non Irish/British citizens is massive.

lateconnection · 29-05-2015 12:36pm

I think that DAA need to seriously begin thinking about building pier f, with all these new TATL routes for EI on the way once IAG are in control, the demand for T2 stands will be huge.

Plus if Ethiopian decide to expand in America and fly to places like ORD or SFO, they will use Dublin.

JCX BXC · 29-05-2015 12:48pm

lateconnection wrote: »

Plus if Ethiopian decide to expand in America and fly to places like ORD or SFO, they will use Dublin.

I'd be unsure, if Aer Lingus announce LAX then Ethiopian may quickly move their whole operation elsewhere.

EICVD · 29-05-2015 1:05pm

Carnacalla wrote: »

I'd be unsure, if Aer Lingus announce LAX then Ethiopian may quickly move their whole operation elsewhere.

I disagree, it's all about charges at DUB for ET, any pax they take to LAX from here is a bonus.

JCX BXC · 29-05-2015 1:08pm

EICVD wrote: »

I disagree, it's all about charges at DUB for ET, any pax they take to LAX from here is a bonus.

I disagree with that, if it was all about charges, how come they didn't pick SNN?

Dublin Airport New Runway/Infrastructure.

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