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The Gay Megathread (see mod note on post #2212)

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Comments

  • #5492
    Black Menorca
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,572 ✭✭✭Black Menorca


    martingriff wrote: »
    Did Bishop Martin mention in some program today that there is some summit in August and the churches position on homosexuality will be on it. Could be wrong but I think he was asked something along the line if the Catholic summit was before this and not August you could have had another position

    The Pope is causing havoc with the Curia in the Vatican. There will be changes soon, could be this year alright.


  • #5493
    katydid
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,351 ✭✭✭katydid


    homer911 wrote: »
    I do struggle with clergy who have not supported their church's stance on the referendum, although I find the Church of Ireland position even more complicated where there was no consistent position - it strikes me as a church destroying itself from within:

    Huh? Allowing freedom of conscience is a bad thing now?


  • #5494
    martingriff
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,392 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    Black Menorca wrote: »
    The Pope is causing havoc with the Curia in the Vatican. There will be changes soon, could be this year alright.

    You think it is a bad think


  • #5495
    Black Menorca
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,572 ✭✭✭Black Menorca


    martingriff wrote: »
    You think it is a bad think

    No, not at all.


  • #5496
    martingriff
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,392 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    Black Menorca wrote: »
    No, not at all.

    Ah okay just the word havoc it sounded like you were a]against it


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  • #5497
    Black Menorca
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,572 ✭✭✭Black Menorca


    martingriff wrote: »
    Ah okay just the word havoc it sounded like you were a]against it

    A good kind of havoc. :)


  • #5498
    ShoulderChip
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,875 ✭✭✭ShoulderChip


    Black Menorca wrote: »
    When you meet Gay Catholics, do you give them a special dose of your anti-Catholic hate speech? Just wondering.

    Do they exist?
    I thought most gays would be well read.


  • #5499
    Doctor DooM
    Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 25,872 Mod ✭✭✭✭Doctor DooM


    ShoulderChip wrote: »
    Do they exist?
    I thought most gays would be well read.

    Well, ignoring the insult, I knew a gay priest so yes, they definitely exist.


  • #5500
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 52,048 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    ShoulderChip wrote: »
    Do they exist?
    I thought most gays would be well read.

    MOD NOTE

    Less of the insults towards Catholics.

    Thanks for your attention.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



  • #5501
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,574 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    ShoulderChip wrote: »
    Do they exist?
    Gay Catholics? Of course they exist. If you don't know any gay Catholics, you really need to get out more.
    ShoulderChip wrote: »
    I thought most gays would be well read.
    You're as well-informed about gays as you are about Catholics, it seems. Gays about about as well read as anyone else. The thing is, "gay" is about sexual orientation, not about literacy.

    You really need to get out more! The real world awaits you. You should try it. You might like it!


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  • #5502
    katydid
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,351 ✭✭✭katydid


    Black Menorca wrote: »
    Pope Francis has shown us the way as out Sherpherd to pen our arms to people on the margins or feel marginalised due to their life circumstances.


    What does "to pen our arms to people" mean?

    Pope Francis is no better than JPII, all show at being liberal, but deep down conservative. You don't get to be pope by being liberal. He has not addressed the most important issue facing the RC church, the discrimination against half its membership, and has made it clear that, like JPII, he's not interested in addressing it.

    Actually to be fair to him he's not quite as bad as JPII - as far as I know, he's not palling around with and promoting child abusers - but he is certainly not the radical he'd like the world to think he is.


  • #5503
    brian_t
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,911 ✭✭✭brian_t


    katydid wrote: »
    What does "to pen our arms to people" mean?
    .

    I would guess it was a miss-type and they meant "to open our arms to people"


  • #5504
    Black Menorca
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,572 ✭✭✭Black Menorca


    katydid wrote: »
    What does "to pen our arms to people" mean?

    Pope Francis is no better than JPII, all show at being liberal, but deep down conservative. You don't get to be pope by being liberal. He has not addressed the most important issue facing the RC church, the discrimination against half its membership, and has made it clear that, like JPII, he's not interested in addressing it.

    Actually to be fair to him he's not quite as bad as JPII - as far as I know, he's not palling around with and promoting child abusers - but he is certainly not the radical he'd like the world to think he is.

    I assume you are referring to women becoming Priests.

    Will never happen in my view. I certainly won't be openly advocating for it either.

    But allowing married Priests is certainly a runner. Maybe in the coming decade of two.

    Neither of the above takes away from the compassion Pope Francis shows on a daily basis, putting many of the rest of us to shame, both inside and outside the Church.


  • #5505
    katydid
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,351 ✭✭✭katydid


    Black Menorca wrote: »
    I assume you are referring to women becoming Priests.

    Will never happen in my view. I certainly won't be openly advocating for it either.

    But allowing married Priests is certainly a runner. Maybe in the coming decade of two.

    Neither of the above takes away from the compassion Pope Francis shows on a daily basis, putting many of the rest of us to shame, both inside and outside the Church.
    Of course I'm referring to women becoming priests, what else?
    You're absolutely right, it won't happen; because, as I said, under all the guff, Francis is just as reactionary and traditional as every other pope. You don't get to be pope by being otherwise.

    That's fine. No skin off my nose, as I'm no longer an RC - I wouldn't stay in an organisation that disrespects me and my gender- but all I'm saying is let's not pretend he's something he's not


  • #5506
    katydid
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,351 ✭✭✭katydid


    brian_t wrote: »
    I would guess it was a miss-type and they meant "to open our arms to people"

    Ah, of course. I was a bit put off by the weird spelling of shepherd...


  • #5507
    Black Menorca
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,572 ✭✭✭Black Menorca


    katydid wrote: »
    Of course I'm referring to women becoming priests, what else?
    You're absolutely right, it won't happen; because, as I said, under all the guff, Francis is just as reactionary and traditional as every other pope. You don't get to be pope by being otherwise.

    That's fine. No skin off my nose, as I'm no longer an RC - I wouldn't stay in an organisation that disrespects me and my gender- but all I'm saying is let's not pretend he's something he's not

    I don't do pretense.

    Pope Francis is a selfless shepherd, showing us all a path that leads to acceptance, humility and growth.


  • #5508
    tommy2bad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,254 ✭✭✭tommy2bad


    katydid wrote: »
    Of course I'm referring to women becoming priests, what else?
    You're absolutely right, it won't happen; because, as I said, under all the guff, Francis is just as reactionary and traditional as every other pope. You don't get to be pope by being otherwise.

    That's fine. No skin off my nose, as I'm no longer an RC - I wouldn't stay in an organisation that disrespects me and my gender- but all I'm saying is let's not pretend he's something he's not

    Oh I'm not so sure, he has come a long way from when he was a bishop in Argentina. He may not be as radical as some hoped but he is far more radical than is comfortable for most.
    Married priests are a real possibility, ordination of women will be a tough one but even that is possible though not in our lifetime. His movement on gay issues is much further than any other pope and much much further than the church is ready to go.
    His radicalism is not in doctrine but in presentation, he is more about meeting people where they are rather than expecting them to come to him. Might not seem like much of a move but after so long of drawing a line in the sand and refusing to cross it from the RCC, this is a major shift.
    Radical is a relative term, in terms of the pace of change in the Vatican, this pope is a revolutionary. Which says as much about the Vatican as it does the pope.


  • #5509
    homer911
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,165 ✭✭✭homer911


    Interesting commentary in the Sunday Independent

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/referendum/the-striking-thing-about-the-yes-camp-was-its-intolerance-31248496.html

    What's the chances the Yes camp can show the tolerance that they claim didn't exist in the No camp?

    I haven't seen any Yes campaigners being gracious to No camp yet..


  • #5510
    marienbad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭marienbad


    homer911 wrote: »
    Interesting commentary in the Sunday Independent

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/referendum/the-striking-thing-about-the-yes-camp-was-its-intolerance-31248496.html

    What's the chances the Yes camp can show the tolerance that they claim didn't exist in the No camp?

    I haven't seen any Yes campaigners being gracious to No camp yet..

    That is just not so , all the official Yes campaigners that I have heard have been very gracious in victory . John O'Gorman Una Mullally all the politicians . In fairness so have the main players on the No side Breda O'Brien ,David Quinn etc. but always will a little dash of sour grapes thrown in , be it funding ,media bias, bullying etc.

    John Waters gave an interview on Newstalk that in all honesty was as weird as they come , prophesying apocalyptic consequences and the end of the world as we know it . That Manning guy was even worse on BBC

    I do agree that there was a level of intolerance by the yes side during the campaign , on twitter Facebook and tearing down posters and such . I found it somewhat dismaying that some posters on here that I respect thought it was OK .

    The exact same behaviour and worse happened on the No side but I had no expections of them whatsoever as that is always at the core of their campaigns - the end always justifies the means .


  • #5511
    katydid
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,351 ✭✭✭katydid


    tommy2bad wrote: »
    Oh I'm not so sure, he has come a long way from when he was a bishop in Argentina. He may not be as radical as some hoped but he is far more radical than is comfortable for most.
    Married priests are a real possibility, ordination of women will be a tough one but even that is possible though not in our lifetime. His movement on gay issues is much further than any other pope and much much further than the church is ready to go.
    His radicalism is not in doctrine but in presentation, he is more about meeting people where they are rather than expecting them to come to him. Might not seem like much of a move but after so long of drawing a line in the sand and refusing to cross it from the RCC, this is a major shift.
    Radical is a relative term, in terms of the pace of change in the Vatican, this pope is a revolutionary. Which says as much about the Vatican as it does the pope.
    Coming a long way is relative. If you are not prepared to even countenance discussion about equality for half the membership of the organisation you lead, you haven't come very far in terms of the real world. "Radicalism in presentation" is just another word for window dressing.

    Married male priests is all very well, but without full equality within the church, it's not worth very much.


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  • #5512
    katydid
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,351 ✭✭✭katydid


    Black Menorca wrote: »
    I don't do pretense.

    Pope Francis is a selfless shepherd, showing us all a path that leads to acceptance, humility and growth.

    You're pretending he's a good pope, while he disrespects half the population of the world and of his organisation. That doesn't say "good shepherd" to me; if you read your scripture, you'll find repeatedly that the real Good Shepherd treats all his flock equally.


  • #5513
    Benny_Cake
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,205 ✭✭✭Benny_Cake


    homer911 wrote: »
    Interesting commentary in the Sunday Independent

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/referendum/the-striking-thing-about-the-yes-camp-was-its-intolerance-31248496.html

    What's the chances the Yes camp can show the tolerance that they claim didn't exist in the No camp?

    I haven't seen any Yes campaigners being gracious to No camp yet..

    Katherine Zappone and her wife were on the Miriam O'Callaghan show this morning and we're incredibly gracious towards Senator Jim Walsh. It's well worth a listen to.


  • #5514
    Black Menorca
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,572 ✭✭✭Black Menorca


    katydid wrote: »
    Coming a long way is relative. If you are not prepared to even countenance discussion about equality for half the membership of the organisation you lead, you haven't come very far in terms of the real world. "Radicalism in presentation" is just another word for window dressing.

    Married male priests is all very well, but without full equality within the church, it's not worth very much.

    I take it you are a member of the Methodist or Anglican communities?


  • #5515
    Black Menorca
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,572 ✭✭✭Black Menorca


    Benny_Cake wrote: »
    Katherine Zappone and her wife were on the Miriam O'Callaghan show this morning and we're incredibly gracious towards Senator Jim Walsh. It's well worth a listen to.

    Senator Zappone is a lovely lady and was treated shamefully by the anti-water charges rabble in Jobstown a few months ago.


  • #5516
    katydid
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,351 ✭✭✭katydid


    Benny_Cake wrote: »
    Katherine Zappone and her wife were on the Miriam O'Callaghan show this morning and we're incredibly gracious towards Senator Jim Walsh. It's well worth a listen to.
    There was so much graciousness on both sides on that show and on Marion afterwards that I felt like shouting at the radio to tell them to stop...
    How can Jim Walsh say he's "delighted for people like Zappone" when up to Friday he was saying they aren't fit to raise children?


  • #5517
    Black Menorca
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,572 ✭✭✭Black Menorca


    katydid wrote: »
    You're pretending he's a good pope, while he disrespects half the population of the world and of his organisation. That doesn't say "good shepherd" to me; if you read your scripture, you'll find repeatedly that the real Good Shepherd treats all his flock equally.

    Go on?


  • #5518
    Black Menorca
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,572 ✭✭✭Black Menorca


    katydid wrote: »
    There was so much graciousness on both sides on that show and on Marion afterwards that I felt like shouting at the radio to tell them to stop...
    How can Jim Walsh say he's "delighted for people like Zappone" when up to Friday he was saying they aren't fit to raise children?

    It warmed my heart to see the scenes from Dublin Castle last night. It was a wonderful sight. I'd be a clown to deny it.


  • #5519
    Benny_Cake
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,205 ✭✭✭Benny_Cake


    katydid wrote: »
    You're pretending he's a good pope, while he disrespects half the population of the world and of his organisation. That doesn't say "good shepherd" to me; if you read your scripture, you'll find repeatedly that the real Good Shepherd treats all his flock equally.

    Most churches aren't where they should be on equality. Change comes slowly, the Church of Ireland may have women priests but plenty of members of the Anglican communion don't. Same with numerous other churches. Perhaps the whole idea of a separate ordained priesthood isn't entirely in keeping with equality either, but that's another argument!

    I don't agree with Francis on everything but I like him and I believe he's sincere.


  • #5520
    katydid
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,351 ✭✭✭katydid


    Benny_Cake wrote: »
    Most churches aren't where they should be on equality. Change comes slowly, the Church of Ireland may have women priests but plenty of members of the Anglican communion don't. Same with numerous other churches. Perhaps the whole idea of a separate ordained priesthood isn't entirely in keeping with equality either, but that's another argument!

    I don't agree with Francis on everything but I like him and I believe he's sincere.
    The difference between churches in the Anglican communion and the RCC is that in the latter, there is no mechanism for change. The word of the pope is the final word, and the people or minor clergy have no say. Change will come slowly to those churches that have still not accepted women's equality - a minority of the 38 members of the Anglican communion.

    It will not happen at all in the RCC, as the leader had said there is to be no discussion on it.


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  • #5521
    katydid
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,351 ✭✭✭katydid


    Black Menorca wrote: »
    It warmed my heart to see the scenes from Dublin Castle last night. It was a wonderful sight. I'd be a clown to deny it.

    But you would deny the LGBT people involved the right to equality...a tad hypocritical, no?


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