White Male Privilege

AlphaRed · 10-05-2015 07:45PM

jobbridge4life wrote: »

This thread is pathetic. Instead of a worthwhile conversation on 'privilege' we have the same tired set of men virtually tripping up over themselves to demonstrate how bad men have it in society.

you mad, brah?

jobbridge4life · 10-05-2015 07:45PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

This wouldn't happen if we didn't constantly have it rammed down our throats that we have it better and should feel bad about it, when it's demonstrable that this is false.

But the concept of privilege doesn't remotely suggest that males have it better period. So again another pathetic incapacity to engage.

hatrickpatrick · 10-05-2015 07:47PM

jobbridge4life wrote: »

But the concept of privilege doesn't remotely suggest that males have it better period. So again another pathetic incapacity to engage.

The concept of "male privilege" as it's thrown around in debates about gender equality 100% is used to claim that men have it better, period.

zeffabelli · 10-05-2015 07:47PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Perhaps, but again you're not addressing the double standard with regard to one being seen as discrimination and one being seen as progress. Either both are discrimination, or both are progress.

Sure, that's something to be looked at. I'd argue that male behaviour is vilified in mixed schools and this must be addressed, but again do you accept the double standard with regard to girls racing ahead academically being somehow seen as a good thing, but men being ahead in professionally being seen as a bad thing?

Why?

All other things being equal?

Eh… Not sure how that's relevant to anything I said, although I agree that this should also be equalised urgently. But you still haven't addressed the double standard of progress vs discrimination.

Because I don't agree with you that one is seen as discrimination and the other as progress. By whom...gender fascists?....they hardly represent the educators or parents?

hatrickpatrick · 10-05-2015 07:50PM

zeffabelli wrote: »

Because I don't agree with you that one is seen as discrimination and the other as progress. By whom...gender fascists?....they hardly represent the educators or parents?

Well feminists are always going on about how women are disadvantaged in the professional world, and you yourself asked someone else to explain this in the context of women doing better in school, which essentially suggests that women doing better at school is natural, but men doing professionally better is not.

I'm asking how you can make such a claim, especially without backing it up. Either both are evidence of discrimination or neither, as far as I'm concerned.

jobbridge4life · 10-05-2015 07:51PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

The concept of "male privilege" as it's thrown around in debates about gender equality 100% is used to claim that men have it better, period.

No it isn't. The existence of male privilege does not preclude the existence of female privilege.

Yurt2 · 10-05-2015 07:51PM

jobbridge4life wrote: »

This thread is pathetic. Instead of a worthwhile conversation on 'privilege' we have the same tired set of men virtually tripping up over themselves to demonstrate how bad men have it in society.

'Someone is questioning the sacred tenants of feminism. Quick, deploy the neckbeard defense! This heresy cannot abide!'

No one is claiming men have it universally bad. We're pointing out that our supposed birth right of 'patriarchal white male privilege' isn't borne out statistically, and that it won't protect us from poverty and doesn't exactly land us that cushy seat on the board we've always dreamed of.

Identity politics, and particularly chromosome victim politics and dogma is toxic, misleading and counter productive. Let's spend our energy and resources tackling real problems.

AlphaRed · 10-05-2015 07:51PM

jobbridge4life wrote: »

But the concept of privilege doesn't remotely suggest that males have it better period. So again another pathetic incapacity to engage.

Check the title of the thread sweetheart

hatrickpatrick · 10-05-2015 07:53PM

jobbridge4life wrote: »

No it isn't. The existence of male privilege does not preclude the existence of female privilege.

It does in the eyes of a lot of feminists. It implies that overall, men have it better, and is subsequently used to justify double standards with regard to fighting for equality.

jobbridge4life · 10-05-2015 07:53PM

AlphaRed wrote: »

Check the title of the thread sweetheart

I did Hon. If I was off topic I'd have been warned Cutething.

ngcxt6 · 10-05-2015 07:53PM

Ah, raging white men ITC. Self aware levels and understanding of the term = zero.

Yurt2 · 10-05-2015 07:53PM

jobbridge4life wrote: »

No it isn't. The existence of male privilege does not preclude the existence of female privilege.

Sure, and we just so happen to spend 99% our time decrying male privilege and ignoring female equivalent's. Remarkable.

jobbridge4life · 10-05-2015 07:54PM

Yurt! wrote: »

Sure, and we just so happen to spend 99% our time decrying male privilege and ignoring female equivalent's. Remarkable.

Something makes me doubt you spend any of your time decrying male privilege.

Yurt2 · 10-05-2015 07:56PM

jobbridge4life wrote: »

Something makes me doubt you spend any of your time decrying male privilege.

Correct, because I'm not suffering from an ideological psychosis.

hatrickpatrick · 10-05-2015 07:57PM

jobbridge4life wrote: »

Something makes me doubt you spend any of your time decrying male privilege.

Pretty sure he meant "we" as in society. Pretty sure you were fully aware of this when you decided to make that ridiculous remark, as well.

jobbridge4life · 10-05-2015 07:58PM

Yurt! wrote: »

Correct, because I'm not suffering from an ideological psychosis.

Other than the one that tells you there is a cabal of feminists across the globe out to do the male of the species in...

Don't make me explode with hilarity please.

jobbridge4life · 10-05-2015 07:59PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Pretty sure he meant "we" as in society. Pretty sure you were fully aware of this when you decided to make that ridiculous remark, as well.

That would explain why you liked his subsequent post directly contradicting what you have said in the above quoted?:cool:

hatrickpatrick · 10-05-2015 08:00PM

jobbridge4life wrote: »

Other than the one that tells you there is a cabal of feminists across the globe out to do the male of the species in...

Don't make me explode with hilarity please.

We've provided plenty of evidence that the gender equality movement is rife with double standards and blindness to any areas in which women have an unfair advantage. Do you have any actual retorts to any of our arguments, or will you insist on trying to drag people into name calling matches and petty arguments over semantics instead?

hatrickpatrick · 10-05-2015 08:00PM

jobbridge4life wrote: »

That would explain why you liked his subsequent post directly contradicting what you have said in the above quoted?:cool:

How in any way did his post contradict what I've said…?

zeffabelli · 10-05-2015 08:04PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

We've provided plenty of evidence that the gender equality movement is rife with double standards and blindness to any areas in which women have an unfair advantage. Do you have any actual retorts to any of our arguments, or will you insist on trying to drag people into name calling matches and petty arguments over semantics instead?

The gender equality movement...and that is both the feminist and the masculin ideological insanties, are gender fascists and have lost their minds and trying to convince everyone else of their delusions.

We are more than our genders....Jesus Christ....stuck in the 1990s.

hatrickpatrick · 10-05-2015 08:04PM

ngcxt6 wrote: »

Ah, raging white men ITC. Self aware levels and understanding of the term = zero.

Care to explain it for us in that case?

I wonder why you consider it illegitimate rage for people who experience discrimination to be constantly told that they are the perpetrators of discrimination and never the victims.

Huntergonzo · 10-05-2015 08:06PM

Ah it's great being a white male, if I never win another race in my life at least I won the biological race :-)

hatrickpatrick · 10-05-2015 08:08PM

zeffabelli wrote: »

The gender equality movement...and that is both the feminist and the masculin ideological insanties, are gender fascists and have lost their minds and trying to convince everyone else of their delusions.

We are more than our genders....Jesus Christ....stuck in the 1990s.

I agree entirely. But the mainstream media gives credence to these feminists and so do politicians, so it's not enough to just agree that they're gender fascists. Their bullsh!t must be actively disproven and fought against wherever it emerges, or they will succeed in introducing more toxic anti-male laws and social memes.

Eugene Norman · 10-05-2015 08:26PM

ngcxt6 wrote: »

Ah, raging white men ITC. Self aware levels and understanding of the term = zero.

The self awareness of "white men" is relatively ok, particularly those of us from working class backgrounds. We have bog all.

It's the lack of self awareness of class discrimination, regional discrimination and the fact that the American intellectuals who invent these ideologies never mention their own cultural and economic privilege. Yank privilege.

Btw I suspect there is male privilege if you control for class, that upper middle class women have less power than upper middle class men but I am opposed to the generalisation of those inter class privileges to all men.

zeffabelli · 10-05-2015 08:28PM

Eugene Norman wrote: »

The self awareness of "white men" is relatively ok, particularly those of us from working class backgrounds. We have bog all.

It's the lack of self awareness of class discrimination, regional duscrimination and the fact that the American intellectuals who invent these ideologies never mention their own cultural and economic privilege.

The problem with importing the white male meme, is that Ireland was not always "white," in that way....it was not far off from Mexico really....

Blacks of Europe lest we forget....

bb1234567 · 10-05-2015 08:32PM

going_bald wrote: »

what exactly would acknowledging it ( if indeed its true ) achieve ?

nothing ?

but like most forms of political correctness , its an exercise in sounding good rather than doing good

Yeah it doesn't do anything..and I agree..I guess its just fair to acknowledge that some people don't have to work as hard for things as others do simply because of superficial reasons such as skin colour.

Shenshen · 10-05-2015 08:48PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Can I flip this one on its head for a moment?

Why is it that boys falling behind in school is generally celebrated as female achievement and not condemned as male oppression - but women falling behind at work is condemned as female oppression and not celebrated as male achievement?

Boys have been left behind by a school systems which regards girls' typical behavioural traits as the gold standard, and normal masculine behavioural traits as disruptive at best, and a psychological disorder at worst.

Why does this get so little mention in the discourse about gender equality? Boys are more and more likely to be medicated in order to subdue their normal male behaviour, and are failing to thrive in an educational environment which discourages competitive instincts and other male forms of expression.

Why is nothing being done about this? If the genders were flipped it would obviously be "girls being held down by the patriarchy", so why when the situation is reversed and they're doing better, is this not also seen as unfair? Why is it considered a good thing?

In my view this is one of the most glaring, insidious and dangerous examples of feminist hypocrisy and anti-male bias in society, and it's going to completely screw the next generation of men if we don't tackle it soon.

Can I take this a bit further?

Would you claim that education in the past valued male traits more than female? Were teacher awarding male behaviour, whereas now they discourage disruptions?
I think this idea that the classroom has changed massively in order to accomodate girls is another massive myth, what you would call female traits would always have been essential to any academic achievement.

What's changed between my mother's generation and mine is that I didn't have to spend 6 hours a week doing needlework and another 6 hours learning home economics. the curriculum is now that same for both genders, and forgive me for thinking that's as it should be.

hatrickpatrick · 10-05-2015 08:52PM

Shenshen wrote: »

Can I take this a bit further?

Would you claim that education in the past valued male traits more than female? Were teacher awarding male behaviour, whereas now they discourage disruptions?
I think this idea that the classroom has changed massively in order to accomodate girls is another massive myth, what you would call female traits would always have been essential to any academic achievement.

What's changed between my mother's generation and mine is that I didn't have to spend 6 hours a week doing needlework and another 6 hours learning home economics. the curriculum is now that same for both genders, and forgive me for thinking that's as it should be.

I didn't live in that time so I can't comment.

But again, the consistently ignored double standard has not been addressed.

Either one gender racing ahead of the other in terms of achievement is something to be concerned about and to be prevented, or is something to be celebrated.

It can't be celebrated when it's women who are racing ahead (in education) but condemned when it's men who are racing ahead (professionally). This is, very simply, a sexist double standard. Either one gender having an advantage over the other is a good thing or it isn't. It can't change from bad to good based on which gender is gaining an advantage - that's sexist discrimination.

Shenshen · 10-05-2015 08:54PM

Yurt! wrote: »

Because females overwhelmingly take humanities courses or opt for nursing or teaching (solid careers that offer salaries around the median) rather than STEM subjects or business related fields which obviously attract more money.

Gender pay gap has been debunked many times by many different people (ERSI in Ireland for a local study). Women work less hours per year than men and over their career opt out of the labour market for years to raise kids. Removing these factors the gap all but vanishes to something like 2 percent. And women without kids actually out earn males. It's a myth.

And you wouldn't for a moment stop and wonder why they choose humanities? I was actively discouraged at school from pursueing anything to do with physics or mathematics ("girls can't do that" were the words not one, but 3 physics and maths teachers), yet still ended up in IT.

You don't wonder if they choose to work part-time, when once they do have children they really have no other viable option?

You think simply stating that as women consistently pick the wrong subjects and then are dumb enough to have children and don't abandon them by the road side, that's a good way to counter-argue the pay gap?

I know WHY women earn less than men on average. There's no need to point that out. What I'm interested in is ways of addressing the problem and solving it.

Shenshen · 10-05-2015 08:56PM

jobbridge4life wrote: »

This thread is pathetic. Instead of a worthwhile conversation on 'privilege' we have the same tired set of men virtually tripping up over themselves to demonstrate how bad men have it in society.

It's an internet discussion board. That's all you can expect, really.

White Male Privilege

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