Outer City Bypass

death1234567 · 08-05-2015 12:12pm

Unrealistic wrote: »

It would take an imaginative solution to deal with the negative equity but if something isn't done then people are not truly being made whole by the compensation process.

Correct and it would take a lot of buy in from other parties, i.e. the banks. The nature or CPO's and the laws/rules that they are made of means that you can only cover the general principle, you can't have different rules for every possible scenario otherwise the system is unworkable.

Zzippy wrote: »

Yes a lot of people are affected by negative equity, me included. The difference is they still have the asset, and can continue to live in it and pay down the mortgage and hope that someday between rising property prices and paying down the mortgage they will have an asset that is worth more than what they owe the bank. CPO would remove the asset, forcing these people to realise the debt instantly, giving them no hope of ever getting out of debt, also forcing them to seek somewhere else to live while still paying off the debt on the now demolished house, and no hope of getting a mortgage to buy again. How is that fair?

Can you not use your CPO money to buy a new asset (i.e. a house) and transfer your existing mortgage to your new home? I assume that's the theory of CPO leaving you in a similar scenario to the one you are in now.

The Principle of Equivalence, which underpins CPO, requires that the affected party is left in the same financial position after the CPO as they were prior to the process.

It's a principle but as above I don't believe in reality it's possible to have a CPO system that covers every individual scenario.

Iwannahurl · 08-05-2015 12:13pm

crusier wrote: »

It will ease the pressure on public transport and allow for public transport development in the city going forward!

Ease what pressure on public transport?

Allow for what public transport development, and how?

death1234567 · 08-05-2015 12:18pm

youngrun wrote: »

Are recreational and amenity facilities not important for a society ? Are facilities for exercise not vital for students, kids and other users?

Yes they are important but not as important as you are trying to make out. NUIG losing a couple of hurling pitches isn't the end of the world. If they have to buy new land in another part of the city or slightly further from the college it's no big deal. Your post reads like we are condemning thousands to a lifetime of obesity, diabetes and heart disease just because a new road will require the removal of a bit of grass.

A huge amount of people use these facilities every day , including many clubs, its not just an NUI facility. These are so important and should not be pushed out miles from city central locations imho. The route should move west to lands not in residential/sporting use

Not that many people use the facilities on a daily basis, (certainly less than would use the road), and before/during/after the road is built a lot of the facilities e.g the running track, that are there will remain in place and those people will still be able to use them.

I would hope/imagine there will be a major campaign against this route from NUIG and many of sports clubs and organisations using Dangan in City and hopefully it will succeed .

Yeah that's just what we need, another protest, fight the machine, talk to joe, won't someone think of the pitches, I walk my dog down there and I like it so this road should be abandoned, etc.

El_Dangeroso · 08-05-2015 12:20pm

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Ease what pressure on public transport?

Allow for what public transport development, and how?

Buses will go faster through the city making it easier to give a high frequency service.

I don't know about you but I find cycling around the city far more pleasant when the traffic is lighter. I personally will be much more likely to take the bike if we don't have so many cars on the road aggressively trying to overtake me as they're in a massive hurry and have no other option than to go through the city.

Mrs OBumble · 08-05-2015 12:31pm

I think we should call it the Knocknacarra-Parkmore Expressway.

Medtronic might change their name or something. It already confuses newcomers when people refer to the Digital Roundabout and the Compaq bus.

I look forward to hearing details about the other components of the Galway City Transport Solution.

?Cee?view · 08-05-2015 12:34pm

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

Buses will go faster through the city making it easier to give a high frequency service.

I don't know about you but I find cycling around the city far more pleasant when the traffic is lighter. I personally will be much more likely to take the bike if we don't have so many cars on the road aggressively trying to overtake me as they're in a massive hurry and have no other option than to go through the city.

Ideally progress could be made now on making many of the existing roads one way for motorised traffic with two way cycle facilities once the bypass/outer ring road/transport solution/whatever opens.

Removing the traffic from the West destined for the East each morning could allow Knocknacarra, Kingston and Taylor's Hill to become one way towards town with a separate bus lane and two way separated cycle lane (similar to what's been developed in Dublin over the last few years). The same traffic that would use that as a route west to east (i.e. towards town) could be directed through Salthill out to Knocknacarra Cross via Gentian Hill when travelling West .

This would make one of the most used school routes considerably safer.

There would be plenty of roads crossing (Threadneedle, Rosary Lane, road by Brooklawn/Polnarooma) so that drivers wouldn't be inconvenienced unduly.

Similar solutions could be explored to the East of the town.

However, it might require some imagination and those on different agendas to work together which are all too lacking in Galway.

crusier · 08-05-2015 12:36pm

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Ease what pressure on public transport?

Allow for what public transport development, and how?

The quincentiannal bridge can now realistically be used as a bus corridor with a lane given over to buses and taxis without causing mayhem, that's a start , but your not really interested in solutions are you ?

WildWater · 08-05-2015 12:38pm

Deadly Delta wrote: »

With regard to Dangan and NUIG, can anyone on here with knowledge of the route explain why they decided on the south side of the Castle? It will completely ruin what is a very picturesque area, a lot of people in the area use the track for walking/running, not to mention it's impact on the NUI sports facilities.

I'm no engineer, but It seems like it wouldn't be too much of a variation to go north of the castle and minimize the impact on the area. I've made an illustration to explain what I mean. Purple is the new proposed route.

But what your graphic fails to show is that the section over Dangan will be a bridge. From what I can tell it will only come back to current ground level to west of the hockey pitch.

So what will be the impact? I'm not qualified to assess this but perhaps the biggest impacts will be visual plus one or two supporting pillars situated in Dangan. It's entirely possible that two days after it's there nobody will pay it the slightest bit of heed.

The same of course would not be true for the unfortunate residents of Aughnacurra who I'm sure must be devastated by the choice of this route.

youngrun · 08-05-2015 12:42pm

death1234567 wrote: »

Yes they are important but not as important as you are trying to make out. NUIG losing a couple of hurling pitches isn't the end of the world. If they have to buy new land in another part of the city or slightly further from the college it's no big deal. Your post reads like we are condemning thousands to a lifetime of obesity, diabetes and heart disease just because a new road will require the removal of a bit of grass.

Not that many people use the facilities on a daily basis, (certainly less than would use the road), and before/during/after the road is built a lot of the facilities e.g the running track, that are there will remain in place and those people will still be able to use them.

Yeah that's just what we need, another protest, fight the machine, talk to joe, won't someone think of the pitches, I walk my dog down there and I like it so this road should be abandoned, etc.

FYI the facilities are used by many of the biggest sports clubs in the city in athletics, hockey, triathlon etc etc as well as NUIG sports clubs and many locals.

The provision of recreational and amenity and sports facilities is very important to a city and for general health , wellbeing and encouraging sport. Destroying these and forcing people way out of town is a backwards step /

Plenty of room for a road route out further along the N59.

There are good reasons for a campaign to maintain the NUI sports amenity and Dangan as is and I for one would back this.

youngrun · 08-05-2015 12:45pm

WildWater wrote: »

But what your graphic fails to show is that the section over Dangan will be a bridge. From what I can tell it will only come back to current ground level to west of the hockey pitch.

So what will be the impact? I'm not qualified to assess this but perhaps the biggest impacts will be visual plus one or two supporting pillars situated in Dangan. It's entirely possible that two days after it's there nobody will pay it the slightest bit of heed.

The same of course would not be true for the unfortunate residents of Aughnacurra who I'm sure must be devastated by the choice of this route.

if thats the case then not as bad for dangan sports.
Surprised a bit at the choice of route through these new estates its proposed at Aughnacurra and ard na lacha , both have many new houses , lovely area down the pan it looks like.

Iwannahurl · 08-05-2015 12:46pm

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

Buses will go faster through the city making it easier to give a high frequency service.

I don't know about you but I find cycling around the city far more pleasant when the traffic is lighter. I personally will be much more likely to take the bike if we don't have so many cars on the road aggressively trying to overtake me as they're in a massive hurry and have no other option than to go through the city.

Traffic lighter -- like when the schools are off?

Are you saying buses will be able to travel more quickly through city centre streets when "ten thousand" car commuters have moved to the Knocknacarra-Parkmore Expressway (Parkmore Parkway, anyone?

)

Who'll be on the buses?

?Cee?view wrote: »

Ideally progress could be made now on making many of the existing roads one way for motorised traffic with two way cycle facilities once the bypass/outer ring road/transport solution/whatever opens.

Removing the traffic from the West destined for the East each morning could allow Knocknacarra, Kingston and Taylor's Hill to become one way towards town with a separate bus lane and two way separated cycle lane (similar to what's been developed in Dublin over the last few years). The same traffic that would use that as a route west to east (i.e. towards town) could be directed through Salthill out to Knocknacarra Cross via Gentian Hill when travelling West .

This would make one of the most used school routes considerably safer.

There would be plenty of roads crossing (Threadneedle, Rosary Lane, road by Brooklawn/Polnarooma) so that drivers wouldn't be inconvenienced unduly.

Similar solutions could be explored to the East of the town.

However, it might require some imagination and those on different agendas to work together which are all too lacking in Galway.

Details aside, a lot of that work doesn't need a new expressway, yet none of it has even been attempted in the past 25 years.

One-way systems are not conducive to cycling, and are also advised against in the Public Transport Feasibility Study because they are not suitable for bus routes. Despite this Galway City is stuffed full of one-way streets, and more are being added every year.

Many if not most of the recommendations of the two major public transport studies (2007 and 2010), which are not dependent on a new road, have not been implemented.

School Travel Plans do not need a new expressway. There aren't any -- not one in the whole city, ever. A school bus service in the city doesn't need a new expressway -- there isn't a proper one, so even people dedicated to sustainable transport feel forced to drive.

crusier wrote: »

The quincentiannal bridge can now realistically be used as a bus corridor with a lane given over to buses and taxis without causing mayhem, that's a start , but your not really interested in solutions are you ?

I am very interested in solutions. The solutions are public transport, walking and cycling. Who'll be on the buses going over the Q Bridge?

Crumbs868 · 08-05-2015 12:48pm

crusier wrote: »

The quincentiannal bridge can now realistically be used as a bus corridor with a lane given over to buses and taxis without causing mayhem, that's a start , but your not really interested in solutions are you ?

Bang on. Brings zero solutions to the table.

crusier · 08-05-2015 12:53pm

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Traffic lighter -- like when the schools are off?

Are you saying buses will be able to travel more quickly through city centre streets when "ten thousand" car commuters have moved to the Knocknacarra-Parkmore Expressway (Parkmore Parkway, anyone? )

Who'll be on the buses?

People who don't want to use their cars and those who don't have cars

WildWater · 08-05-2015 12:57pm

youngrun wrote: »

FYI the facilities are used by many of the biggest sports clubs in the city in athletics, hockey, triathlon etc etc as well as NUIG sports clubs and many locals.

The provision of recreational and amenity and sports facilities is very important to a city and for general health , wellbeing and encouraging sport. Destroying these and forcing people way out of town is a backwards step /

Plenty of room for a road route out further along the N59.

There are good reasons for a campaign to maintain the NUI sports amenity and Dangan as is and I for one would back this.

I don't disagree with you and I'm not saying there isn't a better route. But I think you may be a bit over dramatic with your 'destroying' description. This current plan will have zero impact on the usability of the Athletics and Hockey facilities. I would also suggest that it will have zero impact of the usability of the playing pitches. It may have some impact on the potential uses of the training area behind the pavilion.

Despite this the college is still likely to get a substantial amount of compensation either in cash or in further improvement to the facilities at Dangan. In my opinion WRT to Dangan it's definitely not all negative. Personally if I was in senior management at the University I would be looking to capitalise on the opportunity here.

Iwannahurl · 08-05-2015 1:02pm

crusier wrote: »

People who don't want to use their cars and those who don't have cars

People who don't want to use their cars and who don't have cars are already walking, cycling and using public transport.

At the moment the modal share for driving, in a city where traffic congestion is at a level supposedly justifying a €600 million expressway, is around 75%. In some suburbs it's more like 85%.

What proportion of people will suddenly decide they don't want to drive any more when driving becomes easier?

What will motivate them to drive less when driving is less of a hassle, when they kept driving all the time when traffic congestion was said to be intolerable?

Can someone here talk us through the process, because I don't get it...

crusier · 08-05-2015 1:04pm

WildWater wrote: »

I don't disagree with you and I'm not saying there isn't a better route. But I think you may be a bit over dramatic with your 'destroying' description. This current plan will have zero impact on the usability of the Athletics and Hockey facilities. I would also suggest that it will have zero impact of the usability of the playing pitches. It may have some impact on the potential uses of the training area behind the pavilion.

Despite this the college is still likely to get a substantial amount of compensation either in cash or in further improvement to the facilities at Dangan. In my opinion WRT to Dangan it's definitely not all negative. Personally if I was in senior management at the University I would be looking to capitalise on the opportunity here.

A lot of people are not aware of the facilities in dangan, they will be in full view from the bridge and new road raising the profile of the college. The Q bridge does this for the college already,!

Iwannahurl · 08-05-2015 1:14pm

Crumbs868 wrote: »

Bang on. Brings zero solutions to the table.

Completely incorrect, and missing the point entirely.

People who walk, cycle and use public transport are already part of the solution, not part of the problem.

People who drive habitually are the problem, and by continuing to do so make sustainable solutions even harder to achieve.

death1234567 · 08-05-2015 1:28pm

youngrun wrote: »

Plenty of room for a road route out further along the N59.

Plenty of room for sports facilities out further along the N59.

Destroying these and forcing people way out of town is a backwards step

What exactly are they "destroying"? Two hurling pitches? My heart bleeds. Imagine forcing people to go to St. Michaels or Knocknacarra to use a GAA pitch. Oh the humanity!

crusier · 08-05-2015 1:57pm

death1234567 wrote: »

Plenty of room for sports facilities out further along the N59.

What exactly are they "destroying"? Two hurling pitches? My heart bleeds. Imagine forcing people to go to St. Michaels or Knocknacarra to use a GAA pitch. Oh the humanity!

does peter sweetman play hurling?

?Cee?view · 08-05-2015 2:01pm

?Cee?view wrote: »

Ideally progress could be made now on making many of the existing roads one way for motorised traffic with two way cycle facilities once the bypass/outer ring road/transport solution/whatever opens.

?Cee?view wrote: »

...two way separated cycle lane (similar to what's been developed in Dublin over the last few years).....

:rolleyes:

Zzippy · 08-05-2015 2:19pm

death1234567 wrote: »

Can you not use your CPO money to buy a new asset (i.e. a house) and transfer your existing mortgage to your new home? I assume that's the theory of CPO leaving you in a similar scenario to the one you are in now.

Say you bought your house in 2006 for 500k. It's now worth 250k. Your earnings have gone down drastically since 2008 but you can just about manage to make the payments. You still owe 400k on the mortgage.

You get a cheque from NRA for 250k. The bank says "Thank you very much death1234567, we'll have that 250k, and by the way you still owe us 150k. Your earnings are not sufficient for us to approve a new mortgage, sorry".

You now have no house, and are 150k in debt. How are you in a similar scenario to the one you are in now?

death1234567 · 08-05-2015 2:34pm

Zzippy wrote: »

Say you bought your house in 2006 for 500k. It's now worth 250k. Your earnings have gone down drastically since 2008 but you can just about manage to make the payments. You still owe 400k on the mortgage.

You get a cheque from NRA for 250k. The bank says "Thank you very much death1234567, we'll have that 250k, and by the way you still owe us 150k. Your earnings are not sufficient for us to approve a new mortgage, sorry".

You now have no house, and are 150k in debt. How are you in a similar scenario to the one you are in now?

There's way, way too many variables, if's, buts and maybes in that scenario for any CPO system anywhere, ever, to take into account. It's completely unrealistic to expect any scheme to be able to factor all of those variables, e.g. earning losses, attitude of banks, inflation, availability of another house etc., into some magic equation and leave you with an exact amount for a CPO that leaves you where you stand now. The reality of a CPO is that some people will do well out of it and it will suit them, they could downsize their house, get more money than their land is really worth, etc. and some people will lose out, e.g. they won't want to move, kids might have to change schools etc.

C'est La Vie.

what_traffic · 08-05-2015 2:36pm

WildWater wrote: »

I don't disagree with you and I'm not saying there isn't a better route. But I think you may be a bit over dramatic with your 'destroying' description. This current plan will have zero impact on the usability of the Athletics and Hockey facilities. I would also suggest that it will have zero impact of the usability of the playing pitches. It may have some impact on the potential uses of the training area behind the pavilion.

Zero - really? The noise is going to be substantial on an elevated road/bridge.
if vehicles are travelling at 120kmp/h
The visual is going to be huge - we have not even seen the photomontage of this bridge and elevated highway.

snubbleste · 08-05-2015 2:43pm

cgcsb · 08-05-2015 2:49pm

I was very sad when I heard the news. I'm not from Galway but it's a lovely City. This is definitely a mistake and I fear it will make Galway into an ugly Americanised suburban mess. It will be visually ugly, it'll facilitate suburban sprawl, contribute to the decline of City Centre retail and it will encourage more driving and less public transport.

Here in Dublin, the reason why nobody in their right mind drives on a regular basis isn't because of a particular grá for Dublin Bus, Luas or DART services, which are severely over crowded. Dubliners also don't especially enjoy getting drenched wet and having to face the possibility of death, by taxi driver, while on their bikes. It's because the alternative of driving is just far too much of an expensive, time consuming hassle.

Installing bus lanes, buying a few dozen more buses and banning cars would cost next to nothing and actually result in modal shift in comparison to some half a billion euro inflicting a scar on the face of Galway.

This is 60's/70's planning and it should be consigned to the dustbin of history.

what_traffic · 08-05-2015 2:59pm

41 homes to be directly impacted (demolition), 10 severely impacted and 300 homes marginally impacted.

What's a marginal impact? Within 100m of the road?

Here is the online link: http://connachttribune.ie/galway-bypass-built-2020/
(but does not have the ref to the 300 homes marginally impacted - this is in the Offline Edition)

WildWater · 08-05-2015 3:17pm

what_traffic wrote: »

Zero - really? The noise is going to be substantial on an elevated road/bridge.
if vehicles are travelling at 120kmp/h
The visual is going to be huge - we have not even seen the photomontage of this bridge and elevated highway.

You are being rather selective in your quote of my two contributions!

I didn't say it would have zero impact on Dangan. I said it would have zero impact on the usability of pitches, the athletics track and the hockey pitch. The bridge would be high above the playing pitches and sufficiently far from the Athletics track for noise not to be a significant factor. It would be closer to the hockey pitch and yes there would be some additional noise but with noise suppression measures there is no reason as to why it would impact on the usability of that facility. Of couse this is just my opinion.

I never said you would not be able to see it! I'm made a few posts in relation to what I see as a over dramatic reaction to the impact on Dangan. I also said that there may be better routes than this one. But given that this is the route I still hold the view that there are 1) bigger issues at stake here than Dangan and 2) that there is also a potential opportunity in this for the University and the facilities at Dangan if the management of the University play their cards right.

gordongekko · 08-05-2015 3:17pm

Iwannahurl wrote: »

People who don't want to use their cars and who don't have cars are already walking, cycling and using public transport.

At the moment the modal share for driving, in a city where traffic congestion is at a level supposedly justifying a €600 million expressway, is around 75%. In some suburbs it's more like 85%.

What proportion of people will suddenly decide they don't want to drive any more when driving becomes easier?

What will motivate them to drive less when driving is less of a hassle, when they kept driving all the time when traffic congestion was said to be intolerable?

Can someone here talk us through the process, because I don't get it...

There are very few going from knocknacarra to parkmore daily via public transport

gordongekko · 08-05-2015 3:18pm

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Completely incorrect, and missing the point entirely.

People who walk, cycle and use public transport are already part of the solution, not part of the problem.

People who drive habitually are the problem, and by continuing to do so make sustainable solutions even harder to achieve.

Rubbish

spurscormac · 08-05-2015 3:20pm

gordongekko wrote: »

There are very few going from knocknacarra to parkmore daily via public transport

Because currently you would have to go via Eyre Square which is a complete waste of time.
If there was a bus service between Parkmore & Knocknacarra that avoided the city centre, I would certainly consider it a viable option to using my car on a daily basis.

Outer City Bypass

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