Outer City Bypass

Zzippy

Some seriously callous people on here - good of the many etc. Did anyone read the post by Dorchester? Any consideration for people who are in negative equity and will be CPO'd - leaving them in permanent debt and no hope of ever getting another mortgage? Nope, none, "I'm alright Jack, knock the houses, build the f***ing road NOW!". :rolleyes:

Ruffty^

So we've got the new road coming, the redevelopment of the docks..
The next step is obvious..




Galway Mono-Rail !

Mars Bar

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

But a sports area? It's just a field sometimes with changing sheds beside. Easily rebuilt elsewhere.

You've obviously not been in Dangan then.

El_Dangeroso

galwaycyclist wrote: »

Not relevant examples. In the case of places like Loughrea etc the overwhelming majority of traffic is from other places and is trying to pass the town.

In Galway the situation is reversed, the majority of traffic is going to Galway as its end point or is generated from within the city itself.

The only traffic that might be trying to pass Galway is going to or coming from Connemara - population 39,000. Of that, a fraction is actually trying to pass the city.

It doesn't matter if it's not going to be a bypass. Most people on the M50 are not 'bypassing' Dublin, but travelling from one part of the city to another.

_Whimsical_

It was featured on UTV news tonight. An eldery woman who lived in an absolutely stunning detached house with landscaped grounds spoke as she was one of the people affected. She said she was devastated and she looked shocked. A man from one of the areas affected said they'll appeal any planning decision as far as the european courts. Could be a long old battle!
Genuinely I feel sorry for them all tonight.

Iwannahurl

Robbo wrote: »

9 sets of Judicial Review proceedings issued by him in the last 12 months. Nine.

Well, powder my bobbed wig -- this is shocking, what? The absolute gall of the man to demand that matters of law be decided in the courts. And worse, to be vindicated in the European Court of Justice, when he should have rolled over and accepted as undeniable fact the decrees of Local Authority mandarins and the arguments of their barristers hired with public money.

GDSGR8

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Well, powder my bobbed wig -- this is shocking, what? The absolute gall of the man to demand that matters of law be decided in the courts. And worse, to be vindicated in the European Court of Justice, when he should have rolled over and accepted as undeniable fact the decrees of Local Authority mandarins and the arguments of their barristers bought by public money.

Nah, he objects to every damn thing all the time - he's 'won' once on a matter of procedure essentially. As they say, even a broken watch is right twice a day. I doubt that he's overly happy with the current turn of events in fairness, or so I would hope.

Iwannahurl

Larbre34 wrote: »

Its still NIMBY-ism. And its not just small environmental considerations, its a case of the needs of the many outweighing the needs of the few. Galway City needs this if it is to prosper at all.

NIMBY can also be read as Next It Might Be You.

The Knocknacarra-Medtronic Expressway is not about meeting the needs of the many. It's about catering for the desires of certain interests. Many motorists simply want a new road to allow them commute West-East and back, without having to think about the bigger picture, such as the wisdom of using scarce public money to facilitate yet more fossil-fuel-dependent private transport.

The "emerging preferred route" is self-evidently not a "bypass" intended to bring freedom to the people of Connemara who were supposedly "cut off" from the rest of the country. The roundabout at Ballymoneen, the link road in Rahoon, and the access points in Parkmore are clearly intended as facilities for cross-town car commuters.

Waiting expectantly in the wings along with the thousands of dedicated car commuters, who incidentally have absolutely no intention of availing of the alleged advantages in terms of public transport, are vested interests of one sort or another. For example, Galway Chamber of Commerce has already stated that its support for a "bypass" is based on its desire to get some car traffic out of the city in order to bring more in. In their minds "prosperity" must be motorised, and the reported price tag of €600 million is worth it if the engines keep running and the tills keep ringing.

That said, it's good to hear that public transport will be given more extensive consideration soon. Apparently the National Transport Authority is now on board, whereas previously it was just the National Roads Authority. Let's see whether there's a €600 million budget available for the NTA's proposals.

crusier

_Whimsical_ wrote: »

It was featured on UTV news tonight. An eldery woman who lived in an absolutely stunning detached house with landscaped grounds spoke as she was one of the people affected. She said she was devastated and she looked shocked. A man from one of the areas affected said they'll appeal any planning decision as far as the european courts. Could be a long old battle!
Genuinely I feel sorry for them all tonight.

Ah! Sweet Jesus, it used to be snails!

Deadly Delta

Mars Bar wrote: »

You've obviously not been in Dangan then.

With regard to Dangan and NUIG, can anyone on here with knowledge of the route explain why they decided on the south side of the Castle? It will completely ruin what is a very picturesque area, a lot of people in the area use the track for walking/running, not to mention it's impact on the NUI sports facilities.

I'm no engineer, but It seems like it wouldn't be too much of a variation to go north of the castle and minimize the impact on the area. I've made an illustration to explain what I mean. Purple is the new proposed route.

youngrun

Deadly Delta wrote: »

With regard to Dangan and NUIG, can anyone on here with knowledge of the route explain why they decided on the south side of the Castle? It will completely ruin what is a very picturesque area, a lot of people in the area use the track for walking/running, not to mention it's impact on the NUI sports facilities.

I'm no engineer, but It seems like it wouldn't be too much of a variation to go north of the castle and minimize the impact on the area. I've made an illustration to explain what I mean. Purple is the new proposed route.

Great idea. Or even further out . Dangan is a fantastic parkland and sporting amenity and a credit to NUIG ( despite some encroachment like park and ride built on pitches) , and as a very close to city facility is pretty much irreplaceable in terms of location, as college are likely to have to go a lot further out the N59 to get lands to replace.
Galway has a woeful lack of parks/good sized sportsgrounds and building a highway through the best one says it all. Whats left ?

However will a viaduct type build mean the sportsgrounds are still usable ?

death1234567

_Whimsical_ wrote: »

Genuinely I feel sorry for them all tonight.

You can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs.

As for the precious hurling pitches in Dangan being affected? Jesus wept, If that's all people have to complain about then it must be the best road project ever.

Zzippy wrote: »

Some seriously callous people on here - good of the many etc. Did anyone read the post by Dorchester? Any consideration for people who are in negative equity and will be CPO'd - leaving them in permanent debt and no hope of ever getting another mortgage? Nope, none, "I'm alright Jack, knock the houses, build the f***ing road NOW!". :rolleyes:

What do you want the NRA to do, pay them over the odds for the house? "Well your house is only worth 200K but as you were stupid enough to pay €400k for it why don't we just clear your mortgage for you." A lot of people are affected badly by negative equity, that's what happens when you havea unsustainable housing boom. It's nothing to do with roads or infrastructure projects.

Mrs OBumble

I've had a go at putting the proposal into Google maps, to give a proper zoom-able view.

Obviously it's not perfectly what is on the official map, but I think I've got the main route about right. Yet to add the new junctions and access roads.

https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=zV9FBQ3J7L1o.kcIItFFt6eag

Helpful criticism welcome.

thebackbar

The whole process in how they announced several possible routes six weeks ago and then announced another route yesterday seems very strange.

* Were the proposed routes designed to scaremonger people ?
* Did they design the new route in six weeks ?

Goofy

thebackbar wrote: »

The whole process in how they announced several possible routes six weeks ago and then announced another route yesterday seems very strange.

* Were the proposed routes designed to scaremonger people ?
* Did they design the new route in six weeks ?

This is exactly how every new road is built.

spurscormac

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

I've had a go at putting the proposal into Google maps, to give a proper zoom-able view.

Obviously it's not perfectly what is on the official map, but I think I've got the main route about right. Yet to add the new junctions and access roads.

https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=zV9FBQ3J7L1o.kcIItFFt6eag

Helpful criticism welcome.

Good idea, and gives a better idea of what's affected by overlaying it on Google.

Here, as requested, is a few pointers on my locality...
Ballymoneen Road - new roundabout junction is further south of the bend in the road and the driveways marked as roads on google maps.
The road goes much closer to the back of Sli Gheal estate than you have shown.
Rahoon Cross - you have road pretty close, but it appears to go slightly north of the crossroads rather than south as you have it.
Cappagh Rd - Bar Aille, there's more of a s-bend shape to the road than the straight line shown.

youngrun

death1234567 wrote: »

You can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs.

As for the precious hurling pitches in Dangan being affected? Jesus wept, If that's all people have to complain about then it must be the best road project ever.

Are recreational and amenity facilities not important for a society ? Are facilities for exercise not vital for students, kids and other users?
Or is sitting in your car and getting from A to B the best way of living ?
A huge amount of people use these facilities every day , including many clubs, its not just an NUI facility. These are so important and should not be pushed out miles from city central locations imho. The route should move west to lands not in residential/sporting use

I would hope/imagine there will be a major campaign against this route from NUIG and many of sports clubs and organisations using Dangan in City and hopefully it will succeed .

?Cee?view

youngrun wrote: »

I would hope/imagine there will be a major campaign against this route from NUIG and many of sports clubs and organisations using Dangan in City and hopefully it will succeed .

Of course sports etc. are very important, but how much of the Dangan facility is actually impacted by this? I read somewhere that just one GAA pitch is at issue which must mean that others and the track are not.

It reminds me of the early 80s when the current "new" bridge was being built. The University had a fit about that at the time yet since then the entire north campus has been developed.

Saint_Mel

As someone who commutes into Galway from the East, the proposeed new Coolagh roundabout scares me

Hopefully it'll cut down travel time but during the construction phase it could be a nightmare

what_traffic

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

It doesn't matter if it's not going to be a bypass. Most people on the M50 are not 'bypassing' Dublin, but travelling from one part of the city to another.

Can we change the title of this thread so?
It is clear now that the proposed road is not a real bypass
First steps in this process is to change the title of this boards.ie thread. :rolleyes:

what_traffic

what_traffic wrote: »

Can we change the title of this thread so?
It is clear now that the proposed road is not a real bypass
First steps in this process is to change the title of this boards.ie thread. :rolleyes:

Its still a bypass though, you can bypass the city on it so the title "bypass" is correct. There just happens to be a few entrances/exits onto/off the bypass.

Also on top of that I would personally count getting on the road at Dangan and off at the headford road junction as bypassing the city.

?Cee?view

what_traffic wrote: »

Can we change the title of this thread so?
It is clear now that the proposed road is not a real bypass
First steps in this process is to change the title of this boards.ie thread. :rolleyes:

How is it a zero sum game though? Can it only be a bypass if absolutely noone else can use it?

what_traffic

?Cee?view wrote: »

How is it a zero sum game though? Can it only be a bypass if absolutely noone else can use it?

Still need a title change - perhaps the "Galway City Outer Ring Road"

snubbleste

what_traffic wrote: »

Still need a title change - perhaps the "Galway City Outer Ring Road"

The local authorities refer to the proposed road as the Galway City Transport Solution :rolleyes:

Unrealistic

death1234567 wrote: »

You can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs.

What do you want the NRA to do, pay them over the odds for the house? "Well your house is only worth 200K but as you were stupid enough to pay €400k for it why don't we just clear your mortgage for you." A lot of people are affected badly by negative equity, that's what happens when you havea unsustainable housing boom. It's nothing to do with roads or infrastructure projects.

They shouldn't be left worse off than their current position. Maybe that doesn't mean paying over the odds to the person whose house is being knocked (although there should be an element of compensation for disruption over and above the value of the house) but it shouldn't mean that someone who is living in a house they own and meeting the mortgage payments is suddenly locked out of home ownership for the rest of their lives as a result of a CPO. It would take an imaginative solution to deal with the negative equity but if something isn't done then people are not truly being made whole by the compensation process.

what_traffic

snubbleste wrote: »

The local authorities refer to the proposed road as the Galway City Transport Solution :rolleyes:

Change the thread title to that then!

Zzippy

death1234567 wrote: »

You can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs.

As for the precious hurling pitches in Dangan being affected? Jesus wept, If that's all people have to complain about then it must be the best road project ever.


What do you want the NRA to do, pay them over the odds for the house? "Well your house is only worth 200K but as you were stupid enough to pay €400k for it why don't we just clear your mortgage for you." A lot of people are affected badly by negative equity, that's what happens when you havea unsustainable housing boom. It's nothing to do with roads or infrastructure projects.

Yes a lot of people are affected by negative equity, me included. The difference is they still have the asset, and can continue to live in it and pay down the mortgage and hope that someday between rising property prices and paying down the mortgage they will have an asset that is worth more than what they owe the bank. CPO would remove the asset, forcing these people to realise the debt instantly, giving them no hope of ever getting out of debt, also forcing them to seek somewhere else to live while still paying off the debt on the now demolished house, and no hope of getting a mortgage to buy again. How is that fair?

The Principle of Equivalence, which underpins CPO, requires that the affected party is left in the same financial position after the CPO as they were prior to the process. How would paying the market value do that?

Iwannahurl

Deleted User wrote: »

A Knocknacarragh to Medtronic expressway.

?Cee?view wrote: »

How is it a zero sum game though? Can it only be a bypass if absolutely noone else can use it?

The term "bypass" was never an accurate/honest one, because the proposed road was always desired as (a) a west-east route for city car commuters, (b) a means of getting some cars out of the city centre to make room for bringing other cars in, and (c) an access road to open up development opportunities in a commuter belt around the city. These unfulfilled desires haven't gone away you know.

ARUP's Associate Director was on Galway Bay FM this morning and referred to the road as an "expressway".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limited-access_road

What is being proposed, then, is not an outer bypass but a limited-access high-speed road, with one of its declared primary objectives being to facilitate "ten thousand" people (ARUP's words, as used on GBFM) to drive from residential areas west of the city to employment areas in the east.

Strangely, and rather tardily, the ARUP Associate Director also now says that the National Transport Authority is on board, because the overall project is intended to develop public transport solutions also. Indeed, she has said two quite different things: the expressway is the "right solution" for Galway, and "we can't keep building more roads".

I am very puzzled by this, and perhaps someone here can square the circle, because I have been unable to get a satisfactory answer despite repeatedly posing the question.

ARUP appears to hold two seemingly contradictory positions: (1) the proposed expressway will make driving much easier for ten thousand west-east car commuters and (2) the project will also develop public transport solutions.

So that's €600 million for an expressway to make cross-city driving easier, and how many more millions for developing a public transport system intended to persuade commuters not to use their cars?

If it's not a zero sum game, what is it?

crusier

Iwannahurl wrote: »

The term "bypass" was never an accurate/honest one, because the proposed road was always desired as (a) a west-east route for city car commuters, (b) a means of getting some cars out of the city centre to make room for bringing other cars in, and (c) an access road to open up development opportunities in a commuter belt around the city. These unfulfilled desires haven't gone away you know.

ARUP's Associate Director was on Galway Bay FM this morning and referred to the road as an "expressway".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limited-access_road

What is being proposed, then, is not an outer bypass but a limited-access high-speed road, with one of its declared primary objectives being to facilitate "ten thousand" people (ARUP's words, as used on GBFM) to drive from residential areas west of the city to employment areas in the east.

Strangely, and rather tardily, the ARUP Associate Director also now says that the National Transport Authority is on board, and that the overall project is intended to develop public transport solutions also. Indeed, she has said two quite different things: the expressway is the "right solution" for Galway, and "we can't keep building more roads".

I am very puzzled by this, and perhaps someone here can square the circle, because I have been unable to get a satisfactory answer despite repeatedly posing the question.

ARUP appears to hold two seemingly contradictory positions: (1) the proposed expressway will make driving much easier for ten thousand west-east car commuters and (2) the project will also develop public transport solutions.

So that's €600 million for an expressway to make cross-city driving easier, and how many more millions for developing a public transport system intended to persuade commuters not to use their cars?

If it's not a zero sum game, what is it?

It will ease the pressure on public transport and allow for public transport development in the city going forward, even cyclists and pram pushers might benefit!

youngrun

?Cee?view wrote: »

Of course sports etc. are very important, but how much of the Dangan facility is actually impacted by this? I read somewhere that just one GAA pitch is at issue which must mean that others and the track are not.

It reminds me of the early 80s when the current "new" bridge was being built. The University had a fit about that at the time yet since then the entire north campus has been developed.

Dont know yet to be honest how much is impacted without full maps but cant imagine it being too positive an impact..