Outer City Bypass

crusier

Looks good to me, tough on the 44 home owners but its alot less than previously thought and they will be compensated. Roll on the do-gooders, snail finders and bog cotton lovers and D4 based objectors like Sweetie!

spurscormac

crusier wrote: »

Looks good to me, tough on the 44 home owners but its alot less than previously thought and they will be compensated. Roll on the do-gooders, snail finders and bog cotton lovers and D4 based objectors like Sweetie!

Have you seen the actual proposal yet or just going by the press articles so far?
I can't see anything on the N6 website so far this morning.

Dorchester

crusier wrote: »

Looks good to me, tough on the 44 home owners but its alot less than previously thought and they will be compensated.

I had to join Boards as I really want to voice a few things.

As an engineer who has worked directly for the NRA on numerous CPOs and road schemes across the country, let me tell you that the compensation that people get is really not enough.

Yes, roads often mean progress, lessen traffic etc., the 'overall good' and all of that, but what a lot of people don't empathise with is the effects that a CPO has on the families involved. I have seen families destroyed, split, farms separated, communities fragmented over the years. I never truly empathised with the people involved until I was affected myself...as I am in the current situation.

If you are directly affected by the road, i.e. it skirts your property but doesn't actually touch it, you get nothing. The value of your property will plummet and you are left looking at and listening to a very busy road. If you are unlucky enough to be adjacent to an interchange, you have the additional noise of the acceleration and deceleration of traffic.

Yes, you can have noise bunds and bunds to impact the visual intrusion, but in reality, noise bunds are not 100% effective (unless they go with the types used on the continent in inner-city situations, which they won't in the case of the N6)...and the barriers to block the road from a visual point of view are unsightly when viewed from people's homes. I know this because I have overseen the erection of many of them.

Compensation is based on the market value. So, over the years, you might have invested huge sums of money, of energy, of yourself, into your property. This will not be accounted for. You will get what your property is worth right now, not what you might have paid for it in 2006 or 2007 or whenever. So, let's say that you bought a house for €500,000 for arguments sake in 2008. Let's say the mortgage is now €400,000 for arguments sake. And let's say the property is now worth €250k. You will only get €250k as compensation.

So, if you are an affected landowner, whether by means of CPO or noise/visual intrusion and not subject to a CPO, this is a devastating blow to you personally. There may be 50 homes or whatever the exact number is, affected but this is 50 homes by say on average 4 people per home. That's 200 people CPO'd out of their homes.

This figure doesn't take account of those whose properties will plummet in value and those who will have to look out on or hear a busy high-grade dual carriageway every day.

As an engineer I am all for progress...all for the creation of sustainable infrastructure. However, I am very disappointed to see that not all angles were taken account of in the current road appraisal and selection. I have spent years working on similar schemes in other areas of the country and to be honest, I am not convinced of the current process or procedure. I see gaps. Now I have studied the current project in indepth detail and sent detailed submissions to the project team in relation to same and yes, I have a personal interest in this scheme, given that I am going to be likely CPO'd from my house and from my family land.

At the end of the day, when environmental issues of such small scale trump those of people, you really have to wonder (and yes I am very au fait with EU Directives and the legalities surrounding the GCOB and the current road project). It's a sad day for me .

Dorchester

crusier wrote: »

Looks good to me, tough on the 44 home owners but its alot less than previously thought and they will be compensated.

I had to join Boards as I really want to voice a few things.

As an engineer who has worked directly for the NRA on numerous CPOs and road schemes across the country, let me tell you that the compensation that people get is really not enough.

Yes, roads often mean progress, lessen traffic etc., the 'overall good' and all of that, but what a lot of people don't empathise with is the effects that a CPO has on the families involved. I have seen families destroyed, split, farms separated, communities fragmented over the years. I never truly empathised with the people involved until I was affected myself...as I am in the current situation.

If you are indirectly affected by the road, i.e. it skirts your property but doesn't actually touch it, you get nothing. The value of your property will plummet and you are left looking at and listening to a very busy road. If you are unlucky enough to be adjacent to an interchange, you have the additional noise of the acceleration and deceleration of traffic.

Yes, you can have noise bunds and bunds to impact the visual intrusion, but in reality, noise bunds are not 100% effective (unless they go with the types used on the continent in inner-city situations, which they won't in the case of the N6)...and the barriers to block the road from a visual point of view are unsightly when viewed from people's homes. I know this because I have overseen the erection of many of them.

Compensation is based on the market value. So, over the years, you might have invested huge sums of money, of energy, of yourself, into your property. This will not be accounted for. You will get what your property is worth right now, not what you might have paid for it in 2006 or 2007 or whenever. So, let's say that you bought a house for €500,000 for arguments sake in 2008. Let's say the mortgage is now €400,000 for arguments sake. And let's say the property is now worth €250k. You will only get €250k as compensation.

So, if you are an affected landowner, whether by means of CPO or noise/visual intrusion and not subject to a CPO, this is a devastating blow to you personally. There may be 50 homes or whatever the exact number is, affected but this is 50 homes by say on average 4 people per home. That's 200 people CPO'd out of their homes.

This figure doesn't take account of those whose properties will plummet in value and those who will have to look out on or hear a busy high-grade dual carriageway every day.

As an engineer I am all for progress...all for the creation of sustainable infrastructure. However, I am very disappointed to see that not all angles were taken account of in the current road appraisal and selection. I have spent years working on similar schemes in other areas of the country and to be honest, I am not convinced of the current process or procedure. I see gaps. Now I have studied the current project in indepth detail and sent detailed submissions to the project team in relation to same and yes, I have a personal interest in this scheme, given that I am going to be likely CPO'd from my house and from my family land.

At the end of the day, when environmental issues of such small scale trump those of people, you really have to wonder (and yes I am very au fait with EU Directives and the legalities surrounding the GCOB and the current road project). It's a sad day for me .

spurscormac

Here it is...

the proposed route

Raging_Ninja

Have you brought this up at any of the meetings?

Larbre34

Its still NIMBY-ism. And its not just small environmental considerations, its a case of the needs of the many outweighing the needs of the few. Galway City needs this if it is to prosper at all.

I would sympathise deeply with anyone who will be forced out a home that is dear to them, but as a person familiar with how this works, you know well that the best outcome for you will be to get the EIS and motorway order through quickly and get the CPO processed so you can have some certainty and not be left in limbo for years.

You also know that if you get the right advisors and advocates in place and make a robust submission to the CPO, you will be compensated more than adequately in terms of setting up a new home and the loss of amenity suffered.

Robbo

crusier wrote: »

Looks good to me, tough on the 44 home owners but its alot less than previously thought and they will be compensated. Roll on the do-gooders, snail finders and bog cotton lovers and D4 based objectors like Sweetie!

9 sets of Judicial Review proceedings issued by him in the last 12 months. Nine.

El_Dangeroso

How long will this take to build? We'd be lucky to get this by the end of the decade am I right?

A Knocknacarragh to Medtronic expressway.

Mrs OBumble

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

How long will this take to build? We'd be lucky to get this by the end of the decade am I right?

Depends which decade you're referring to!


If I'm reading the map right, Menlo gets a viaduct over the top of it - will be interesting to see how that goes down with the locals: I'd guess that the leaks last week (which didn't mention it) were part of a plan to make them fear the worse, so they can now be relieved that it's "only" a massive overhead bridge they get, not loss of the whole area.

There are some interesting local access roads in Ballybrit Industrial and Parkmore West industrial estates which will vastly simplify things for car-using workers living in Knocknacarra and working in the big employers.

It looks very spagetti-junction-ish at the end of the motorway, though.

Dorchester

Larbre34 wrote: »

You also know that if you get the right advisors and advocates in place and make a robust submission to the CPO, you will be compensated more than adequately in terms of setting up a new home and the loss of amenity suffered.

I've rarely seen anyone compensated more than adequately. Market value as it currently stands does not compensate for money spent, a life's work, physical and mental effort in building and maintaining a home.

Sconsey

What's the reason for the tunnel at Coolagh? is there a big hill there? looks like a perfect location (excuse) for them to put in a toll booth.

Dorchester

Sconsey wrote: »

What's the reason for the tunnel at Coolagh? is there a big hill there? looks like a perfect location (excuse) for them to put in a toll booth.

There's no toll booth. The tunnel goes in because of the contours of the land.


Another point I want to mention regarding compensation is: what do people get if they are not actually CPO'd but rather left looking out on and listening to traffic whizz by? The answer is nothing. So in response to an earlier post which states that affected people are more than adequately compensated, this is categorically untrue. You only get compensated (and at market rate mind you) if you are physically CPO'd. If you are left living literally metres beside the new road network, your house value will drop and you will not receive any compensatory measures at all.

_Whimsical_

Dorchester wrote: »

There's no toll booth. The tunnel goes in because of the contours of the land.


Another point I want to mention regarding compensation is: what do people get if they are not actually CPO'd but rather left looking out on and listening to traffic whizz by? The answer is nothing. So in response to an earlier post which states that affected people are more than adequately compensated, this is categorically untrue. You only get compensated (and at market rate mind you) if you are physically CPO'd. If you are left living literally metres beside the new road network, your house value will drop and you will not receive any compensatory measures at all.

They mentioned on GBfm this morning that those living right beside the motorway who feel their quality of life will be affected by noise or obscured view can sell their homes to Galway County Council and that the council will then sell their homes on at a later point.

I imagine it's very upsetting for anyone affected by demolitions or having the nature of the area they live radically changed. I have to say I felt for them today.

dubhthach

The second tunnel is to get under the "Limestone Pavement" which helped to sink the original Outer bypass proposal.

yer man!

Is this a lot more destructive to homes than the original route?

Mrs OBumble

_Whimsical_ wrote: »

I imagine it's very upsetting for anyone affected by demolitions or having the nature of the area they live radically changed. I have to say I felt for them today.

It's upsetting for some of them. But surely closure is better than waiting forever to find out what will eventually happen.

And not everyone is emotionally attached to their house in the same way.

And I certainly know some people living in the east of Galway who are very happy with the improved shopping and public transport that development over the last 15 or so years has brought to their neighbourhoods.

dubhthach

yer man! wrote: »

Is this a lot more destructive to homes than the original route?

Hard to say, there was some people saying up to 100 homes with some of the routes (Green?)

Mars Bar

Families being uprooted and Dangan sports facility being torn up. ****ing hell.

crusier

Mars Bar wrote: »

Families being uprooted and Dangan sports facility being torn up. ****ing hell.

If there was a way of doing it without uprooting people I'm sure it would be done, I'm sure the dangan facilities will be even better when its completed, less of the drama!

what_traffic

crusier wrote: »

If there was a way of doing it without uprooting people I'm sure it would be done, I'm sure the dangan facilities will be even better when its completed, less of the drama!

Of course who would not want 4 lanes of motor traffic noise and the associated pollution beside you when your training for your University sport's team.

nuac

The original proposal was not passed in Europe because of inteference with bog cotton and about 2% of a 45 sq hectare limestone being interfered with by bridge pylons.

afaik no homes affected in that proposal.

Now it is proposed to tunnel under some limestone pavement.

How will that work out in say 500 years time, if tunnels collapse. Limestone is not the most stable of stones.

Uprooting of homes is criminal

dubhthach

There would have been CPO's in the original scheme, given the level of "Bungalow Blitz" around Galway it was inevitable. It's the same with all road schemes for example there were CPO's of houses in the M17/M18 which is currently under construction.

crusier

crusier wrote: »

If there was a way of doing it without uprooting people I'm sure it would be done, I'm sure the dangan facilities will be even better when its completed, less of the drama!

Anyone with any sense can see that this is bad news for Dangan, such a shame to be tearing through such an area, I run down there in the mornings from the hockey pitches down under the quincentenary bridge and there is such a difference down near the old castle to up near Quincentenary bridge where all the old character and habitat is gone replaced by cans, bottles and graffiti under the bridge. Hate to see such a lovely spot which was so well managed by the university getting the drive-through treatment.

My condolences on those who've had the hammer fall on them, but to those who think it's wrong, tough!
I spent the past decade commuting between East Galway and Dublin, and I've seen firsthand what ringroads do for the towns they serve. THe needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

My dreams of building my family & life west of Galway City hinges on this road, and this road is now getting built!

An Spideal Abu'!

Mrs OBumble

Mars Bar wrote: »

Families being uprooted and Dangan sports facility being torn up. ****ing hell.

families, I can have some sympathy for. I wonder how many of the 41 houses actually are family homes vs rental properties.

But a sports area? It's just a field sometimes with changing sheds beside. Easily rebuilt elsewhere.

Storm 10

[Deleted User] wrote: »

My condolences on those who've had the hammer fall on them, but to those who think it's wrong, tough!
I spent the past decade commuting between East Galway and Dublin, and I've seen firsthand what ringroads do for the towns they serve. THe needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

My dreams of building my family & life west of Galway City hinges on this road, and this road is now getting built!

An Spideal Abu'!

No it's not getting built yet it's only a proposal route, when the objections start going in against the route with court cases and Europe etc it will be a very very long time if it's ever built

galwaycyclist

Deleted User wrote: »

I spent the past decade commuting between East Galway and Dublin, and I've seen firsthand what ringroads do for the towns they serve. THe needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

Not relevant examples. In the case of places like Loughrea etc the overwhelming majority of traffic is from other places and is trying to pass the town.

In Galway the situation is reversed, the majority of traffic is going to Galway as its end point or is generated from within the city itself.

The only traffic that might be trying to pass Galway is going to or coming from Connemara - population 39,000. Of that, a fraction is actually trying to pass the city.

Bobeagleburger

Sooner it's done the better