How will you vote in the Marriage Equality referendum? Mod Note Post 1

sjb25 · 30-04-2015 02:21PM

frostyjacks wrote: »

The problem is one of them isn't a parent. Isn't this an issue for homosexuals as well?

Takes more than having sex to be a parent........
So you are saying a fostered/ adopted child has no parents coz they didn't make them!!!!
You are scraping the barrel at this stage

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5 · 30-04-2015 02:21PM

frostyjacks wrote: »

The problem is one of them isn't a parent. Isn't this an issue for homosexuals as well?

But you're limiting your application of the word parent to the biological. As shown above in posts about dead beat dads, that often counts for SFA.

Someone who is materially and emotionally supporting a child long term is a parent in all but the biological sense. These parents exist in significant numbers in this country, but the family units they're in are not considered a family the same way straight married couples' families are.

BoatMad · 30-04-2015 02:26PM

frostyjacks wrote: »

But you can procreate. A gay couple, as far as I'm aware, cannot. So why afford them the same status?

why not. you ve not advanced any reason to not give them the same a marriage rights

if on the other hand you feel marriage is about procreation, then you'd better argue about disenfranchising childless couples

Bannasidhe · 30-04-2015 02:27PM

frostyjacks wrote: »

And wouldn't it have been better if the father wasn't a dead beat dad? This is my point.

Better how?

Would he have turned out to be a hard working, well educated, articulate, caring, compassionate man who adores his children?

Oh... hang on... he did.

AND his fiancee says that not only can he pee standing up - he also puts the seat down.

You can read for yourself how he turned out in the AMA forum. His user name is Sonics2k.

Why don't you read it and then tell us how 'it would have been better'.

sjb25 · 30-04-2015 02:28PM

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Ye are letting him drag you off topic and muddy the waters again lads.

This is true but hard to watch somebody talk so much rubbish and ignore it

SpaceTime · 30-04-2015 02:30PM

I think we're really muddying the waters here.

There are problems in Ireland with adoption and lack of clarity around suragacy. I think everyone should have an absolute right to information about their biological parents but none of this has anything to do with same sex marriage.

Ireland's religious conservatives are the ones who have gone out of their way to block adopted children from getting the information they need to contact their biological parents. They also split up families and took kids off their loving single parents and exposed them to horrifically abusive institutions.

Yes we need modern law around adoption and suragacy but this has absolutely nothing more to do with same sex marriage than with heterosexual marriage.

I refuse point blank to listen to lectures about children's rights from a bunch of groups that deliberately destroyed families all over Ireland for decades and undermined all sorts of natural connections between parents, children, siblings, adoptive parents, persecuted single mothers, basically shunned and exiled people who didn't fit their cold, harsh, inhumane model of perfect Christian society etc etc etc

I can see absolutely no issue whatsoever with gay or lesbian parents as long as the kid is loved and given every opportunity to develop.

Bannasidhe · 30-04-2015 02:30PM

sjb25 wrote: »

This is true but hard to watch somebody talk so much rubbish and ignore it

Truth.

I think I'll go get the garden shears out and go trim me box.

Zubeneschamali · 30-04-2015 02:30PM

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Iyou must surely agree that heterosexual couples who are infertile, or too old to procreate, should not be allowed to marry either?

Case in point, my widowed father married a widowed neighbor, being way too old to procreate. Not only could they get legally married, they could even get married in a church in a Holy Matrimony type deal.

The whole "Marriage=procreation" thing is a crock even for Catholic marriages.

MrWalsh · 30-04-2015 02:31PM

sjb25 wrote: »

This is true but hard to watch somebody talk so much rubbish and ignore it

The reality behind those posts is either an immature child who is just giggling away trying to wind people up or an adult who is deluded. Either way, not worthy of paying much attention to.

sjb25 · 30-04-2015 02:33PM

MrWalsh wrote: »

The reality behind those posts is either an immature child who is just giggling away trying to wind people up or an adult who is deluded. Either way, not worthy of paying much attention to.

I'm going with deluded adult Iv met a few

sjb25 · 30-04-2015 02:34PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Truth.

I think I'll go get the garden shears out and go trim me box.

That sounds fun

kylith · 30-04-2015 02:47PM

frostyjacks wrote: »

The problem is one of them isn't a parent. Isn't this an issue for homosexuals as well?

Because they're not biologically related to the child? My brother married a divorcee with a child, he has been more involved in that child's life than her biological father, is he not a parent? Are heterosexual couples who adopt not parents? Surely the definition of a parent is someone who raises a child?

Sofiztikated · 30-04-2015 03:23PM

Just back from getting RFA2 signed, and dropped into the court house.

I've never voted before. This is exciting.

Glenman · 30-04-2015 03:25PM

The establishment would have you believe that if you vote ‘No’ that you are jeopardising Ireland’s political future. Opponents of the proposal are quiet and fearful to openly voice their opinions in case they are branded “antediluvian bigots and homophobes”

ohnonotgmail · 30-04-2015 03:28PM

Glenman wrote: »

The establishment would have you believe that if you vote ‘No’ that you are jeopardising Ireland’s political future. Opponents of the proposal are quiet and fearful to openly voice their opinions in case they are branded “antediluvian bigots and homophobes”

not if they are honest about their reasons and dont try to sidetrack the discussion by talking about stuff like adoption, surrogacy, etc which is not part of this referendum.

kylith · 30-04-2015 03:32PM

Glenman wrote: »

The establishment would have you believe that if you vote ‘No’ that you are jeopardising Ireland’s political future. Opponents of the proposal are quiet and fearful to openly voice their opinions in case they are branded “antediluvian bigots and homophobes”

Voting to deny gay people rights isn't homophobic if voting to deny black people rights isn't racist and voting to deny women rights isn't misogynistic.

30-04-2015 03:36PM

frostyjacks wrote: »

I don't doubt that single parents do a good job in raising their kids. I just believe two parents are better than one.

And yet you have systematically and consistently ignored every single person who has asked you to lend some basis to the idea that two parents of opposite gender are in any way better or worse than two parents of the same gender - in terms of raising kids.

jobbridge4life · 30-04-2015 03:36PM

kylith wrote: »

Voting to deny gay people rights isn't homophobic if voting to deny black people rights isn't racist and voting to deny women rights isn't misogynistic.

Of course not! Its religious freedom and if you dare question that I'll sue. See? Freedom!

pwurple · 30-04-2015 03:43PM

BizzyC wrote: »

Children and parental rights for gay couples have been sorted already in a separate act that has already passed through the dail.

Voting No for marriage equality is literally not going to make any difference to any child.

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but I thought there was at least one difference for children.

Previously, gay parents of a child, even if in a civil partnership, one was a legal guardian, and the other was not.

If the referendum passes, both will be legal guardians of the child if married.

Is that right? Or not? Because I thought it was one of the significant differences between civil partnership and marriage.

Bannasidhe · 30-04-2015 04:06PM

pwurple wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but I thought there was at least one difference for children.

Previously, gay parents of a child, even if in a civil partnership, one was a legal guardian, and the other was not.

If the referendum passes, both will be legal guardians of the child if married.

Is that right? Or not? Because I thought it was one of the significant differences between civil partnership and marriage.

You are kinda of right and kind of wrong.

That is sorted in the Children and Family Relationship Act so no matter what happens on May 22 it will have no effect on guardianship of children in any kind of relationship.

noway12345 · 30-04-2015 04:08PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

You are kinda of right and kind of wrong.

That is sorted in the Children and Family Relationship Act so no matter what happens on May 22 it will have no effect on guardianship of children in any kind of relationship.

Why isn't or wasn't there a referendum on that?

Ave Sodalis · 30-04-2015 04:12PM

noway12345 wrote: »

Why isn't or wasn't there a referendum on that?

It's a Bill, not a change to Constitution. Technically, you aren't voting on SSM here, you're voting the change the Constitution. If there was a way to legalise SSM as securely, it would be done but writing it into Constitution is the best way at the moment and that requires a referendum. The C&FR Bill deals with a very wide variety of topics, not just homosexual couple adoption.

Bannasidhe · 30-04-2015 04:12PM

noway12345 wrote: »

Why isn't or wasn't there a referendum on that?

Because the Constitution doesn't need amending....

MrWalsh · 30-04-2015 04:12PM

noway12345 wrote: »

Why isn't or wasn't there a referendum on that?

It wasnt a change to the constitution.

Bannasidhe · 30-04-2015 04:13PM

sup_dude wrote: »

It's a Bill, not a change to Constitution. Technically, you aren't voting on SSM here, you're voting the change the Constitution. If there was a way to legalise SSM as securely, it would be done but writing it into Constitution is the best way at the moment and that requires a referendum. The C&FR Bill deals with a very wide variety of topics, not just homosexual couple adoption.

Act now - it's signed, sealed and about to be 'delivered'.

Ave Sodalis · 30-04-2015 04:16PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Act now - it's signed, sealed and about to be 'delivered'.

Act

noway12345 · 30-04-2015 04:17PM

But surely the future of kids is way more important than homosexual people getting married?

Actually you can see from the campaign that most think it is.

MrWalsh · 30-04-2015 04:22PM

noway12345 wrote: »

But surely the future of kids is way more important than homosexual people getting married?

Actually you can see from the campaign that most think it is.

What?

The future of kids is way more important than homosexual people getting married?

Are we planning to nuke the kids or something?

noway12345 · 30-04-2015 04:23PM

MrWalsh wrote: »

What?

The future of kids is way more important than homosexual people getting married?

Are we planning to nuke the kids or something?

What are you talking about?

Having our young people raised in the best way possible effects us all. Homosexuals getting married doesn't effect us.

MrWalsh · 30-04-2015 04:26PM

noway12345 wrote: »

What are you talking about?

Having our young people raised in the best way possible effects us all. Homosexuals getting married doesn't effect us.

So whats your point - how does the referendum on same sex marriage affect children?

How will you vote in the Marriage Equality referendum? Mod Note Post 1

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