How will you vote in the Marriage Equality referendum? Mod Note Post 1

One eyed Jack

Ghost Buster wrote: »

And I genuinely believe that Catholics raising kids is more detrimental to kids than being raised by homosexuals. Imagine if we could all have our prejudices pandered to.

Imagine if you could roll them all into one, or do you imagine there are no homosexual religious people raising children? It's not like the two are mutually exclusive either y'know.

You don't use an army tank to swat a fly, which is basically what you're doing when you use broad strikes and generalisations like that, and yet neither procreation, nor religion, has anything whatsoever to do with this referendum.

All of the no sides 'arguments' are based on perception, scaremongering, ignorance, relying upon people's fear of the unknown and that which they have very little experience of, and even less interest in.

You're really not doing anyone any favours by condemning anyone using agendas that have nothing to do with this referendum. It's difficult enough to get facts across and asking people to take the time to listen, and then we go introducing nonsense?

noway12345

MrWalsh wrote: »

What people? Gay people could always adopt children.

Homosexual couples sorry.

ohnonotgmail

noway12345 wrote: »

Ok, people need to calm down. Some of you are way too emotional. I know why we have this referendum and I know the bill was passed.

The overwhelming majority of people support SSM but that's not the case when it comes to the adoption of kids by homosexuals. This is why the no side are using kids on their posters. People are against homosexuals adopting kids.

Now just to repeat, I know the bill was passed and I know why there's a referendum on SSM. This doesn't change the fact that people are unhappy with the bill being passed.

if they are unhappy with the bill that was passed they should take it up with TD

Bannasidhe

noway12345 wrote: »

That's my point and that's why the no side are using it. People would prefer to have a say on the adoption laws.

Ok. I think I get where you are coming from.

Adoption is not mentioned in the Constitution at all (Lots of things aren't) so unless we want to put a mention of adoption into it there is no reason for a referendum.

Guardianship of children was covered by the 1964 Guardianship of Children Act (a horrible piece of legislation imho) - which was so outdated as to be useless. Next month the Children and Family Relationship Act will come into force and replace the Guardianship of Children Act.

noway12345

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

if they are unhappy with the bill that was passed they should take it up with TD

Yes ofcourse they should but the no side are using it in this referendum. I think the no vote is being increased because of this. There'd be a 90% landslide victory for the yes side if not. I still think it will be passed comfortably but the other issue wont just go away.

ohnonotgmail

noway12345 wrote: »

Ok, people need to calm down. Some of you are way too emotional. I know why we have this referendum and I know the bill was passed.

The overwhelming majority of people support SSM but that's not the case when it comes to the adoption of kids by homosexuals. This is why the no side are using kids on their posters. Some People are against homosexuals adopting kids.

Now just to repeat, I know the bill was passed and I know why there's a referendum on SSM. This doesn't change the fact that people are unhappy with the bill being passed.

FYP. they would be the same people who were against civil partnerships, against divorce, against basically anything that their dumb little book disapproves of.

MrWalsh

noway12345 wrote: »

Homosexual couples sorry.

The only people who mind homosexual couples adopting children are homophobes.

Theyre in the minority I think.

VinLieger

noway12345 wrote: »

Homosexual couples sorry.

Technically they can already however only one of them will be the legal guardian meaning these children did not have the same protections as one being adopted by a heteosexual couple, thats what the bill changes now they have the same rights

TheChizler

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Soon (any day now actually... awaiting the news...) there will be children with homosexual great-grand parents *mind blown*.

The case for mammy daddy 2 grandmammy 2 granddaddy 4 great-grandmammy 4 great-granddaddy marriage?

noway12345

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

FYP. they would be the same people who were against civil partnerships, against divorce, against basically anything that their dumb little book disapproves of.

Not at all. I think you greatly underestimate the lack of support the bill has. If the referendum was on homosexual couples adopting (I know it's not and I know why it's not) then I think it would fail. This is why the no side are using it on their posters and in their campaign. This is why there's even any doubt at all that the referendum will pass.

MrWalsh

noway12345 wrote: »

Not at all. I think you greatly underestimate the lack of support the bill has. If the referendum was on homosexual couples adopting (I know it's not and I know why it's not) then I think it would fail. This is why the no side are using it on their posters and in their campaign. This is why there's even any doubt at all that the referendum will pass.

Nah, Im not buying it. Homophobes are a minority.

Bannasidhe

TheChizler wrote: »

The case for mammy daddy 2 grandmammy 2 granddaddy 4 great-grandmammy 4 great-granddaddy marriage?

I ain't marrying no effin granddad! :mad:

househero

Let them be as miserable as every married straight couple hahaha

I don't think gay people are evil sinners.

I think people who tell other people what to think and do, are evil.

ohnonotgmail

noway12345 wrote: »

Not at all. I think you greatly underestimate the lack of support the bill has. If the referendum was on homosexual couples adopting (I know it's not and I know why it's not) then I think it would fail. This is why the no side are using it on their posters and in their campaign. This is why there's even any doubt at all that the referendum will pass.

i dont know anybody that has a problem with gay people adopting. perhaps we mix in different circles. We have had adoption by gay people for years now so i cant see how extending to couple is so controversial. the whole adoption thing is moot anyway given the number of adoptions that actually take place in this country.

the no side are using it on their posters because they dont have any actual relevant material to use instead. they are bereft of actual reasons to vote no so they have decided to lie instead

TheChizler

noway12345 wrote: »

Not at all. I think you greatly underestimate the lack of support the bill has. If the referendum was on homosexual couples adopting (I know it's not and I know why it's not)

If you're saying it's not a referendum because the government know it would fail then that's certainly a valid reason not to put anything to referendum; why would a government and the associated parties kick start a multi-million Euro process if they expect it to be wasted? However in this case it's more to to with it being unnecessary, as THE CONSTITUTION CURRENTLY DOES NOT PREVENT HOMOSEXUAL COUPLES FROM ADOPTING.

Bannasidhe

noway12345 wrote: »

Not at all. I think you greatly underestimate the lack of support the bill has. If the referendum was on homosexual couples adopting (I know it's not and I know why it's not) then I think it would fail. This is why the no side are using it on their posters and in their campaign. This is why there's even any doubt at all that the referendum will pass.

Voting No will have zero impact on the Act.

The No side are simply muddying the waters because they don't have anything else - if they had, they would use it. It's classic misdirection.

You also need to factor in the number of people who are members of single parent families, adopted families, AHR families who are very very angry at these posters.
They could well tun out to be an own goal.

noway12345

MrWalsh wrote: »

Nah, Im not buying it. Homophobes are a minority.

Just look at any poll on the issue. The support for gay marriage is generally quite high, there is always a significant reduction from that in support of gay couples adopting. Also you see people have some reservations in supporting gay marriage and that percentage is generally quite high.

I think if there was a referendum on gay couples adopting (again I know there's not and I know why) then it would be very close.

noway12345

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

i dont know anybody that has a problem with gay people adopting. perhaps we mix in different circles. We have had adoption by gay people for years now so i cant see how extending to couple is so controversial. the whole adoption thing is moot anyway given the number of adoptions that actually take place in this country.

the no side are using it on their posters because they dont have any actual relevant material to use instead. they are bereft of actual reasons to vote no so they have decided to lie instead

Here's a recent opinion poll, still a majority who would support gay couples adopting but far, far closer.

http://www.redcresearch.ie/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Same-Sex-Marriage-Poll-Feb-2014.pdf

noway12345

TheChizler wrote: »

If you're saying it's not a referendum because the government know it would fail then that's certainly a valid reason not to put anything to referendum; why would a government and the associated parties kick start a multi-million Euro process if they expect it to be wasted? However in this case it's more to to with it being unnecessary, as THE CONSTITUTION CURRENTLY DOES NOT PREVENT HOMOSEXUAL COUPLES FROM ADOPTING.

Not what I'm saying.

pl4ichjgy17zwd

noway12345 wrote: »

Here's a recent opinion poll, still a majority who would support gay couples adopting but far, far closer.

http://www.redcresearch.ie/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Same-Sex-Marriage-Poll-Feb-2014.pdf

But it's irrelevant? It's happening regardless.

noway12345

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Voting No will have zero impact on the Act.

The No side are simply muddying the waters because they don't have anything else - if they had, they would use it. It's classic misdirection.

You also need to factor in the number of people who are members of single parent families, adopted families, AHR families who are very very angry at these posters.
They could well tun out to be an own goal.

I know this referendum has zero impact on it but surely you can see the reason why the no side are using it?

Far less people support gay couples adopting than gay couples marrying.

noway12345

Ricardo Jealous Mimicry wrote: »

But it's irrelevant? It's happening regardless.

It's not irrelevant because it actually is the main topic of this referendum!!!! (Again, I know it wont make a difference to the bill)

Ave Sodalis

noway12345 wrote: »

I know this referendum has zero impact on it but surely you can see the reason why the no side are using it?

Far less people support gay couples adopting than gay couples marrying.

Whether it's true or not, I'm not seeing your point. Yeah, the No side are lying. I'm not sure of the relevance for this thread.

jobbridge4life

noway12345 wrote: »

I know this referendum has zero impact on it but surely you can see the reason why the no side are using it?

I can indeed because they have not one genuine argument against marriage equality and have had to resort to scaremongering and distraction to irrelevant issues.

noway12345

sup_dude wrote: »

Whether it's true or not, I'm not seeing your point. Yeah, the No side are lying. I'm not sure of the relevance for this thread.

It's what people are discussing coming up to the referendum, it's the only reason why there is any doubt over there being a yes vote.

ixoy

noway12345 wrote: »

It's not irrelevant because it actually is the main topic of this referendum!!!! (Again, I know it wont make a difference to the bill)

It's the main misdirection topic of the referendum you mean.

househero

Could I ask somebody from the No side, please explain why we shouldn't allow gay marriage?

noway12345

jobbridge4life wrote: »

I can indeed because they have not one genuine argument against marriage equality and have had to resort to scaremongering and distraction to irrelevant issues.

Why would putting posters up concerning gay couples having kids scare or distract anyone? Is it because there's far less support for gay couples having kids than gay couples marrying? Of course it is.

TheChizler

noway12345 wrote: »

Not what I'm saying.

So what are you saying? No point being secretive.

I'm of the opinion that the no side are using it because as you said there's a little less support for adoption, so they're trying to bring the people who would be ok with SSM but not adoption onto their side by conflating the two; wholly dishonest.

noway12345

ixoy wrote: »

It's the main misdirection topic of the referendum you mean.

Yes and it's working for the no side. It wont be enough but this is the issue that concerns people more.