Cork GAA Discussion Thread

http://www.southernstar.ie/Sport/OConnor-cant-prevent-Colums-loss-to-Bandon-in-South-West-JAFC-round-one-25042015.htm

Look he even faded in a junior game pace wise

Again I'm huge o Connor fan he's brilliant servant but he won't last a game and as sub no good as games will be over when he comes on


Also people's have this illogical unfounded unmerited views he'll be protected in new cork system for a lack of pace and legs when one thing needs be done
Rewatch all cork games this year on tv Dublin twice, donegal , kerry monaghan and clear as day that defensive structure offers no protection at alleged and o Connor will get imo Zero protection and I'm not lookin forward seeing great great warrior made look poor under an inept poor management


If this was clearly and gene and employment I'd fully back o Connor being reinvented


Again cuthbert says a does b
He preached absolutely preached about middle eight needing mobility and.modern midfielder needing rangy mobility with ball winning yet he total imo against it in o commit isn't mobile and other ten midfield lads he tried in he's term most likes sullivan, cussen. Gould can't win ball in the air


Corks midfield he has absolutely imo been totally to blame from day one

Cussen recall was a disaster
Dinnen played well v meath challenge in skurne last may and ul training camp didn't get games

Andrew sullivan started every league game almost despite poor performance then dropped championship he walked away


Leary got don't think full game bar bits here and there
Is he the answer we font know but based under twenty one and junior cork least deserved games

Sullivan midfield never midfield for the town successfully
Cadogan never skillset for midfielder

Cahalane was never going choose football under him well known

Deane back playing I think and imo management won't when fit play him as only got one game v westmeath last year fully out performance Andrew sullivan and I done stats in post prove it and yet next game Andrew sullivan starts
Deane never had luxury start aidan Walsh yet sullivan did and was poor


Like in all honesty where are you going like
The best forward amongst game brogan marked by half back not corner back and to top it off really takes the biscuit Is driscoll half forward plays half back never in life played there for Nemo



Just listening to radio a listener made an outrageous comments imo and sums up the poor culture attitude destroy cork football
Fair enough entitled their opinion but they said fans need get behind team, too harsh critsom and no players goes out play bad and again usual reference jbm in he cork humiliation limerick in 96 and cork stuck with him and it worked and cork football needs do same


In fairness absolutely apples and oranges
Jbm had won minor and in ninety six had old team but in two years before win all Ireland had never been humiliation in championship and good performance with two games brilliant clare team

He had all young lads also
Jbm won league also and clear line constant progression

Cuthbert cork far more experienced team with core all Ireland winners have not once suffered humiliating defeats but three times to Dublin and kerry in big games, dominated by mayo bar moral victory late come back and also derry mayo league two years destroy cork


Cork in this management term showed going backwards and cuthbert took over this team no midfield and like my long post clearly shows have worst defence around as any cuthbert coached team proves conceded a lot


The caller also says cork just need luck like kerry as kerry always get luck

I nearly fell over in disbelief
Seriously kerry don't win all Ireland on luck and make their own
Kerry with average team last year won over fantastic coaching and system defined by o Neill and Fitzmauirce
He needs to research kerry more imo


Same old same old post mortem cork, don't say what's obvious but say we need luck give it time lark
How much time do you give
When do you say we have concerns
Again I said this from day one ccb or management never set minimum expectation expect cork season be so they never judged

Cuthbert talks he doesn't know where cork are at or know where they will end up

That's not good enough now

Van gal at United proven said next year win league and set expectation
This management doesn't
Cuthbert said yesterday in interview he's not taking cover when talks bout defeat but they drive on
I'm sorry but he is as he fails to say what expects and failure to accept he made mistakes with he's management
He doesn't take ownership

Post mortem in cork is why does cork football get no support
Reason unfortunately is cork football accepts mediocrity and doesn't challenge to change
Hurling never was like that but for the last ten years but thankfully trying to change

Only team good coached cork junior and under twenty ones
Kerry have good coach at junior and will test cork but cork will win

Minors have outstanding talent but imo kerry even just one from last year will unfortunately beat cork in kerry as brilliant jack o Connor get everything out he's team
Sullivan cork coach great servant but old school tactics


Cuthbert is fine administration and gentlemen and loves cork football but he is no where near a coach at elite level
One other caller was right he said cuthbert should be sacked
Nobody likes say this but cork young talents football will be undeveloped if stays this management

English clearly and gene any team there with never destroyed in games and at intercounty and club have proven records all three
English went Waterford for six weeks and got them shock win v clare years ago

Cork football has to sack all but three current set up and appointment these ASAP in my opinion to save cork football

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

Fair enough what your views regards yesterday

unfortunately, the result was what I was expecting.
the performance was more disappointing than the actual result.

the basic skills are missing. whatever about positioning and tactics, some of these fellas struggle to solo. they even struggle to hold a ball in their hands, and not just when in contact.

i did notice some cork players go down with cramp late on. i wonder if they have been over training too?

i see Clare/Limerick pushing us, Kerry beating us, limp our way to another quarter final and be soundly beaten.
I am always an optimist but I cant see this changing any time soon

First of all just too sick to post before now another huge dissappointment regards Cork football ....TTM fair play you are 100% correct in your summing up of situation before and after the game ...credit where credit is due ...i might not agree with all you say ...but no one sums up Cork GAA better than you do including a lot of so called journalists . I think one thing is very clear players should be picked in there most natural positions as much as possible ...i know they talk of the modern player whos supposed to play every position but yesterday when i saw Barry O Driscoll come on ...i am a fan of the player but whether he will ever make it or not to see him put back as a corner half back defending yesterday was just unreal ...what did Conor Dorman do wrong ...even at full strength and with a very good manager i dont think we are near Dublin right now theres no disgrace in been beaten by a better team ...but when you know you can do better with the right team out then losing is not as hurtfull......just not thinking out loud ...this team for championship...
Ken O Halloron
Michael Sheilds Eoin Cadogan Stephen Cronin
James Loughrey Conor Dorman Brian O Driscoll
Ian Maguire Fintan Goold
Paul Kerrigan John O Rourke Donncha O Connor
Daniel Goulding Colm O Neill Brian Hurley....

subs...Tomas Clancy, Tom Clancy, Sean White, Jamie O Sullivan, Stephen Cronin, Paddy O Shea, Ruairi Deane, Peter Kelleher, Alan O Connor, Paddy Kelly, Mark Collins, Barry O Driscoll, Cathal Vaughan, Dan McEoin, Sean Kiely, Donal Og Hodnett , Kevin Crowley and Stephen O Donoughue.....

One thing i have always believed about Cork football like it or not hurling comes first in the county i was very young but i remember my father telling me that after the 1976 Munster final when JBM, Ray Cummins, Denis Coughlan, Brian Murphy quit the footballers it finished them for years ...likewise Ronan Curran, Gardiner ...Tom Kenny and Sean Og went hurling over football ....now its happened again with Aidan Walsh , Damien Calahane and Alan Cadogan ....i AM NOT SAYING THIS IS THE BIGGEST REASON behind another loss like yesterdays but Kilkenny will neaver have this problem Kerry neaver have this problem....just another example the Kerry minors have a free run with there players up until they play Cork on the 13th. of May ...i know for a fact because of club hurling and football the Cork management wont have a full panel together for that game until if they are lucky for the last week leading up to that do or die match...by the way i am 100% behind all Cork hurling and football teams equal .....

You called it clean and clear. We have the material and the knowhow we just need the right coach at the helm.

yes we were not too far of the mark were we. They had all the signs of potential minors.

Smith614 wrote: »

Morgan???

Dermot

Smith614 wrote: »

Morgan???

What do you think our best chance full back hurling is
Your knowledge on the hurling is good would you give us any chance this year to win the all Ireland

Heisenberg. wrote: »

Worst game I've ever been to, hands down. Left after 55mins.
How Paddy Power have Cork @ 12/1 to win the championship is beyond me. Wicklow would beat this team.

Wicklow would not as don't have the forwards or the belief to beat cork

Roscommon who have a kerry manager and beaten cork at under twenty one would give cork a game
Galway possibly could and imo real all Ireland contenders in three years
Walsh good manager and he has a midfield
The coming team
Mayo hard to know I doubt it
Donegal monaghan all could and wouldn't rule out Tyrone if get sorted
Armagh imo have another over rated manager who talks the good talk but in fairness to him has better record than ours and could be difficult
Meath injury free would give us a game and have gone impressive defence this league
Tipperary would hsve no doubt beat cork
Clare could give cork a tough game
As bad as we are were still above other teams
You think twelve one is bad we were seven to one weeks ago
If I'd free hundred euro bet would not back cork each way I'd give it to charity it be better served

Johnny Ryan is referee for sunday

Some talk here regards some of cork team are soft etc
That's absolutely nonsense view and I'll try and prove it by actually giving Proven examples.
Brolly is a great pundit bar he's view on current state of football but he runs with the hair and chases with the hounds at times
When a team has no fight or bottle it's lazy to call them soft in themselves as fight comes from management and in this case they have no direction or leadership

Shields cadogan Goulding, all showed fight under Counihan but look you can't have the die with your boots on mentality when you have no belief in management
Despite all the talk, Dublin was the ist test and once Dublin went five up the cork lads knew they had no chance as imagine your cadogan. Loughrey, dorman. Clancy player out position you just know you haven't a hope

Halloran is not soft in despite he's confidence being shattered with no midfield in year half to aim for at has saved cork countless times with brilliant saves

Shields proven all Ireland winner and under age performer and all star and went to the afl and is far from soft

Clancy performances under age many times for cork showed he has real bite but he's not a corner back

Loughrey apparently is soft and of course being from antrim and not cork he's easily cannon fodder when he's never a corner back and I said he'd be cleaned out
Has he bottle??,
Yes he has and player in coal face of ulster football for years and it's physical and was brilliant in a poor team and made ulster team also and against mayo people here who choose to forget he absolutely took the game to mayo and was involved in two goals
How can he have fight when he's not a man markers
Christ above even Anthony lynch have he's hands full with brogan
Sean I agree with lot your posts but you regards loughrey, you critse him with a soft mentality when you forget he's not a corner back but an attacking half back
How can you judge him then??
I agree with the majority of your posts as there outstanding as always imo

Sullivan is not a half back but wouldn't say he's soft in look at countless times came back from injury
But I wouldn't be starting him as cork have better
Dorman been outstanding for ucc under Morgan and under twenty one when not at full back and was he not the match winner v ulster team in the fitzgibnn cup two years ago
Far from soft

Cadogan is very aggressive as proven in he's duels with Paul gambit and in hurling also but he's not a midfielder
Gould in fairness tries and is committed but I agree lacks big game temperament but not he's fault in for years was played out position at half forward, then midfield then half back and confidence was rocked and imo should been a half back if anything

Colm is not soft but tough as nails works hard but is asked do a role he simply can't, create and score and kick pass defence splitting angles passing open up blankets
It's nothing to do with softness but rather ability

Kevin is the same scenario but imo poorer than colm
There gene sons so hardly soft their hard men
That's not the point it's the limited football ability they have

Colm o Neill faced adversity three cruciate injury and won all star, under twenty one player of the year, goal app Ireland v kerry, unlucky v down and should started and outstanding all league and v donegal three years ago but he can do nothing without ball

Hurley outstanding for minors in all Ireland final v Tyrone, awesome v Galway under twenty one final superb goal and outstanding league and also in two under twenty ones games v kerry back in defence winning ball and when the referee blew he had the ball

Works in rnla stormy seas rescue and is far from soft but outstanding brave and courage but can't do a thing without ball

Collins is terrific for the haven, works hard, got goals yesterday but again you can't blame he's been performance in flawed systems

People blaming the players must see what stands out like a sore thumb management are the problem

Ireland were dire under last years v kidney yet schmidt wins in year one
Van gal transform united to top four within a year when Moyle could not do it

Mcguiness transformed the core of the same donegal team within year of being humiliation defeat to armagh
Was it lack of bottle the year before
No it was not but good management
Cork under twenty one football in 2003 with core all Ireland winners lost to waterford
A year later cork win munster with almost none minor winning team
How could that be
Well Anthony Davis was a poor manager and clearly was brilliant

Did I or did I not say kerry would win the minor all year last year with Jack o Connor
I'm no genuis but the dog on the street knew any team he coaches wins is my point
He transformed kerry minor from poor showing under average mickey ned sullivan to outstanding team of champions in one year
When he takes over kerry under twenty one next year imo at least will get to all Ireland final
They will definitely win munster no doubt at all

Look at the opposite examples how teams with great management go in to decline with poor management after good ones before
Leinster have matt o Connor and despite English media glorying him at Leicester despite when won most trophies wasn't main man just part back room and despite at Japan club winning nothing he's poor poor manager and almost same leinster utter decline due to poor manager

Neil francais is not everyone cup of tea but at least he not on the bandwagon and said from day one this was a poor manager

Eric elwood got everything he could from connaught and less limelight
Pat lam a great player but just as he's all black and Samoa blood and course spoke cuppa focal and said I like Guinness the irish media adore him yet he's awful awful coach as he's record proves before connaught and there gone way back under him despite one false dawn win v awful toulouse

Core cork intermediate team won all Ireland some are eligible next year but under ronan dwayne management imo will be poor compared to excellent coaching under Liam Hayes

Look at the evolution of cork minors hurling and rapid decline limerick minors in change management in cork getting better under the proven ring limerick will go back as none their management proven coaches

Cork team won all Ireland under Counihan and won many big game and had real character were clearly lacking fight against Galway and Dublin and kerry the last year as all down to playing in an outdated system

Systems I'm blue in the face from saying and good management is what defines a team
Can we stop the lazy lazy talk that cork football lack the players and bottle when we are equal to roscommon and tipp at least and actually more resources but they get every inch out of their teams and punch above their weight with good management and we flatter to deceive as we have awful awful management
It's that simple and not as complicated as some make it out to be
If we go down the road saying most of the players are soft. We have no players we then are giving this management immunity from critsom when imo they are real real problem and there's no excuse for being non competitive abs a good manager cork would be at least resolute





The usual talk today cork needs an outsider manager like mcgeeny
It makes make me laugh
Cork needs no outside manager and at least one saving grace is the white elephant of the new pairc with its centre of mediocrity will mean no chance of that happening, every cloud has a silver lining

Cork have three men who could do a job with cork as management or back up and James Mccarthy tony leahy etc
Some talk that goes around is off the wall imo
Some are saying we need counihan back
Unbelievable, do they not forget that yes while not as bad as now things were actually awful under Counihan and we haven't hope he'll winning all Ireland against kerry or blanket defence with him there
He's tactical mastermind as proven v donegal was to go orthodox v donegal blanket

Look at cork under twenty ones who defeated kerry blanket this year with a average team compared to other years when they at a period in the game had the innovation and balls and bold approach to go with seven forwards against their sweeper forces kerry to adapt and cork won

Sean Hayes be better manager than cuthbert

In fact no exaggeration but honestly to god a few others here would actually be better management than this set up and while some of us would challenge each other we at least have the honesty courage call spade a spade and actually understand the basics of football
Look at the selector, Davis, sullivan, sexton imo can't see any them challenging cuthbert decisions
While sexton and sullivan imo may have had future potential as managers running before they're walk imo means there future in management imo is bleak and whenever this set up goes most them won't get top jobs however having said that this is cork so probably get an under age teams down the line

Were missing a golden golden opportunity to make hay while the sun shines in with only Dublin and kerry out ahead we could been challenge for all Ireland final as Galway are building like Tyrone while donegal are an old team and mayo are going backwards but as bad as they are slightly better than cork not by much thought


I have to shake my head in disbelief at the interview paper tonight cuthbert says root and branch review he promised now for cork football
I'm sorry but to the hard core geuine well informed cork fan's actually water of a ducks back imo in he promises promises promises but there empty promises and like the dualism was meant be solved, midfield last year, defence every single game he preached we'd improve its case he's post match interviews have as proven no value and total meaningless in time after time same mistakes happen again and again
He has yet to admit he's at fault and while rest management also he and only him appointed sexton and sullivan and Davis with no management experience and he has to be solely one hundred per cent to blame for this
He's interviews are like Brendan Rodgers with Liverpool, by god they talk regards systems and philosophy about football and then your see the teams they coach play and you truly wonder what there on about
Yet media seem to adore these guys yet wenger and van gal proven managers and jose get more criticism
Today imo is a very low ebb for cork football as unlike kerrys who don't need the league we had to perform and the performances so horrible this will set us back hugely
Cuthbert preached all league about imo excuses in performances last year v Dublin rocked cork momentum and impossible to turn it around so back in the same position how on earth can he turn this around??!!!!?!
He's now in a blankets so he can't go back to kevin keegan football all out attack
See when you go from a to b to c to d to e to f to g to h which is what this set up has done solving issues then what happens is when your coach is so poor no matter what you do you will still fail so what happens is eventually you run out of options
There's is so many letters in the alphabet so a poor scrabble player always get found out and here the concept is the same a poor manager sooner or later gets found out as the days winning soft all Ireland are long gone and will never ever be back and up against the great great I mean the really really really great Fitzmauirce and gavin this world to even compete your must have good management or you are beaten before you start

There was an article lastly year I posted in media which was brilliant said club football cork you need good tactical awareness in management
Why doesn't any cork writer say this in cork inter county football and say look cork inter county set up is a worry going forward

Course total blame is ccb for appointment of this manager and goes down with likes united appointment moyles, Ireland appointment Staunton and Robson and now this with cork as apparently great appointment when all bar Robson had no or poor records management and turned out to be shambles of management appointment for big managerial jobs that deserves better candidates

I hate to say this but my fear is this will actually get a lot worse now and cork football confidence is rocked and when Dublin last week played a challenge v Galway to prepare, our lads thought were fine

Just wait for the preparing for the munster championship well probably pick middle road team and play beat them in challenge or else play cork juniors and run to the media and say we're focused were refreshed, Dublin out of the system all guns blazing but in truth it's not if we have another dismal day just imo a case of when
We're in a awful low position at present

Cuthbert identified that the link from attack to defence was what let cork down
Fair play at last he saw this
The dog on the streets knew you need a link man to kick and create so why oh why oh why did kevin driscoll last full game and colm fifty minutes yet there awful going forward

The post match report in some cork media imo could be better
Again it fails to ask why players were played out of positions
Says cork need tight markers coming through like cronin
Yes but in fairness we had cadogan and galvin and all should started not loughrey on brogan
It wrongly again says as if it's postive cork carved out two goal chances and goaled
Have they learned anything from donegal game
The game was over when cork got the goals so it was nothing cork done but was more than what Dublin didn't do

Its again failing to question the management
Unbelievable in cork. Disaster after disaster yet all we hear is get everyone fit, use set back as motivation and go all out for munster.
It's not that simple in there's huge issues in the team

Wrong attuide imo.
Not good enough in lot if issues that are ignored imo

Having maguire fit and o Connor will make no difference as cork won't ulitlse their strengths and if Brian driscoll fit he'll start half back not half forward

Three things cork can improve in my opinion that most be mentioned
Defence, why wasn't this mentioned in any post match article in national media
They need to realise cork have conceded 8-130 approx in eight games yet no one highlights this
As Fitzmauirce says defence wins championship games forwards win games
So defence must improve

Secondly midfield has to and gould can't start
Call them and beg if needs be leary and dinnen and kiely to least hey on the panel

Thirdly actually pick half forwards like Brian o driscoll and Collins etc that can create and score
The fear is with o rourke, out wait for it, George durrant is all set imo for a recall.
Just wait for it.
A fine club player but not seniors standard.
Or maybe Desmond will get a recall in this management could do anything based on their record

People blame loss maguire for this and kelly and driscoll and doc and kelly
Let's be clear,maguire would made no difference as he'd still have gould with him
Kelly or doc both wouldn't started and either one or o rourke as kevin and colm are huge favourite with this manager so injured players nothing to do with this
If Dublin had mcauley they would have destroyed cork by future and Dublin were in second gear

As regards the post about three driscoll brothers,from keep going regards junior club the poster mentioned counihan picked lads from all over and let's not forget from the bulk of junior clubs there's a point to be made there imo

It's nothing to do with junior clubs imo in if there good enough all that matters as Ellis harnedy doc, o Neill in football all proved and may more etc
Problem is kevin and colm driscoll asked do jobs they're don't have talents for

Regards Brian he's unreal and Morgan rates him ucc hugely and unlike other brothers proven at top level and has creativity they're don't

As for cahalane in hurling reason he has be there is simple really cork with Joyce and Spillane injured and Mcdonnell and o Neill not full backs cork have no depth there and while cahalane has problems and injuries he's better than Mcdonnell or o Neill any age every day of the week

It's not like the football where other options haven't been tried hurling at full there limited
Also I'd like to know your views regards current management now???as back only few month ago you unfairly remarked some cork posters were over the top in critsom and based on few false dawn wins thought were out of line

Hopefully in the future any cork fans that call a spade a spade and judge purely on field of play management or players, once not personal will hopefully not be judged as over top reaction or as agenda driven when imo those fans simply see the problems in advance and call it , I'd rather be deemed realistic border line negative than one minute saying cork management flying then suddenly jump ship and go against the grain soon as results come in poorly as it's too late then to change things.

It's clear as day now some, cork fans were not over reacting when all the were doing highlights weak areas this team as Dublin ruthlessly exposed them, and seeing a false dawn when it arises

Some of us were thankfully wrong in cork avoided relegation but we were haunted Dublin was the ist game, and fielded a new team and kerry had no interest and mayo was in cork and Tyrone had own problems.

I said cork had huge problems facing in to knock out stages and said donegal would have no interest Hopefully the critsom some posters faced when there sheer love. For cork football meant they just saying what needed be said, the others will hopefully the next false dawn we get if there's problems with team won't accuse others being too negative as look again at the shambles cork football found themselves in
What shocks me today is not awful performance as I knew this was coming, the shock is the sheer naivety among some I talk to that this was a huge surprise
This is no surprise and you look at every game cork played the consistency of same issues in the team remained right through from the mcgrath cup to now



Cork double team you picked is good but half back line no balance and cadogan wont hold the centre or will driscoll
Centre back has be loughrey clancy and dounoughe and driscoll as half forward not half back
Half back line is about balance even on a blanket defence
You also picked three full forwards when in a two man full forward line in a blanket three in to two wont work
Joe brolly to be fair flagged this issue with cork as far back as three years ago
Kerrigan also imo got and cold and he wouldn't be my ist choice at all at all.
A good team in general and lot your post valid points

There's three types of sports people in the world
The pessimistic one, wind will never change and he's disliked by many
The optimist wind will always change but he's popular
Then there is the best til last the realist who just adjust he's sails but can often depending which way the west wind blows be deemed to optimistic or two pessimistic but people forget there's actually a medium.

Cork football doesn't need pessimistic or optimistic views just old fashioned realistic views, if it's great say it but if it's awful say it
Nothing more nothing less imo
We can play this down as a one off poor day at the office. Didn't get the breaks , cork won't play as bad again. Only can improve, we fool no one but ourselves
People must remember that even though we are woeful we can actually get worse in could be beaten by a middle of the road non top four team in championship some day and imo that day is not far away as last year management were new , introduction of flangan would helped but now year two and no improvement players are going to really self doubt this set up
Cuthbert made a great point the players,Took to flangan from day one as players can see through management he said


Flangan you see is well proven
Now with cuthbert words in mind it's fair to ask what players think of the rest of management when most have no proven records and cork have made no improvement
Remember cork lost to fermanagh and roscommon before so things can always get worse

People say cuthbert needs luck
Imo he's been very lucky as this year league fixtures and The way it panned out meant what was going be four do or die away north trips, turned in to only three and cork were very lucky donegal had a man sent off and got lucky late wins v monaghan and Tyrone
Also kerry had won two games so they didn't need to beat cork so cork had a walk over imo.

He was lucky cork got sligo last year
When cork loose to kerry, cork have cavan sligo London offaly antrim Kildare as possible opponents and he's lucky in there poor teams most of them and will make cork look good

Cavan may be the most difficult and there so defensive and physical while won't win would cause cork difficulty
Fermanagh are limited but again with great Pete mcgrath would set up in such a way cork would win but struggle
What would get cork through these teams is they don't have the players to mark hurley and o Neill and individual brilliance would get cork through however it's a false dawn as when you meet the top teams cork lack the tactics, system and cohesion and unity and togetherness to beat top teams when teams bit individual brilliance are needed to win these big games in the business end of the championship.

Who knows what cork will do next
The recall of paddy o shea and o Connor was out of the blue as was others in this set up so who knows what they will do next
The unprecedented moves have been consistent from day one so expect the unexpected and if it's illogical more than likely they will do it.
Congratulations to the great I mean really really great eammon Ryan and cork ladies for getting to another national final
No exaggeration but this set up would actually cause cork mens team problems.

Being a mad Cork Football fan that I am and hailing from the spiritual home of Cork football (the Carbery Division) it saddens and annoys me, regarding the negative and knee jerk reaction to yesterdays defeat. For the record lets break it down a little...

1) Dublin were near full strength yesterday, Michael Dara MacAuley, and have been under the guidance of one of the most astute modern day football coaches in Jim Gavin and playing them in their own back yard gave them a big advantage.

2) The Cork team started a game for the first time ever, without a reconigsed midfielder. No offence to Fintan, Conor or Eoin but non of ye are intercounty midfielders.

3) As much as I like him Ken O Halloran must have one of the worst kick outs in the country. His inability to pick out a man in space outside the 45 is worrying. Is it little wonder 2 years ago that Alan Quirke was brought back for the All Ireland QF v Dublin.

4) The team is lacking real leadership around the middle third. With the likes of Canty, O Neill, Nick Murphy, Noelie all retiring on mass it ripped the heart out of the team and left huge holes to fill, on the pitch and in the dressing room. Unfortunately the likes of Shields, Goold, Goulding , Kerrigan have failed to replace these leaders and that is a major problem. When the Dubs went 5 pts up yesterday nobody stood up and took the game by the scruff of the neck and showed any leadership and said "Come on lads, show abit of pride"..

These are a few reasons why yesterday went so horribily wrong.

I must also ask the question, has anyone sat down with the underage coaches around the county and questioned why any Cork team, at any grade, cant kickpass the back accurately over 30 yards as this is a huge problem in Cork football throughout the grades.

The other issue is where have all the high fielding midfielders gone? Why are we persisting with a half forward and a full/corner back in midfield? There are plenty of options in Cork football of good solid midfielders/ half forwards/ half backs who can win ball in the air.

When I hear fellas talking that Sean Dineen (Castlehaven) and Daniel O Donovan (Bishopstown) should be given a serious look in to the intercounty setup I wonder about their sanity. Yes both are excellent club midfielders and both have the ability to win primary ball, neither would have the workrate or stamina needed for intercounty football. Why the management havent given the likes of Michael O Laoire, Sean Kiely, Sean White more of a look in beats me especially during the league is very odd.

Looking at our defence, to say that Michael Shields has been woeful since Canty retired is an understatement. He lacks real aggression to be a full back and I've always wondered why his talents arent used at centre back. As for Jamie O Sullivan, James Loughrey and Noel Galvin, heaven knows how they keep their places. All good club players they havent the quality to be IC backs.

Anyone knw if Ray Carey would make a comeback?

Stephen Cronin looked a very composed option when he came on and hopefully he'll get more game time soon.

In midfield we have to look at the likes of Alan O Connor and Ian Maguire for championship. O Connor with his experience and high fielding would compliment Maguires athleticism and with Ruairi Deane and Sean Kiely as back up that wouldnt be back midfied options.

The half forward line is a good line in terms of options and when fully fit, Colm O Driscoll, Mark Collins and John O Rourke are the best trio we have. Collins is the most natural playmaker we have (alongside Donnacha O Connor, who might I add was a big loss yesterday) as he's intelligent and has the ability to kickpass the ball into space which is what full forwards want, fast direct ball. I know I'll get probably damned for this but C O Driscoll deserves his place in the Cork setup as his high workrate and has the ability to score ( if given the right role), while O Rourke has shown that also his workrate and ability on the ball are second to none.

The FF line is the most intriguing and is the line that has the most quality in my eyes. While Hurley and O Neill are nailed on starters I would love to see someone like Cathal Vaughan or for an atogether more direct option would Daniel O Donovan be not suited to a Kieran Donaghy style role.

Having played with him underage I can tell u something if the quality of ball into him was any good he would cause wreck and maybe thats the type of gameplan we need. We tried Cussen in there before but he hadnt the natural ability or footballing skill to execute that role.

I for one would give Cuthbert to the end of this season and if we havent reacted the minimum of the AI semi final or a Munster championship then serious questions need to be asked. I for one would love to see a team of John Fintan Daly, James McCarthy and Michael O Sullivan on the line. Tactical ability, reading of the game and quick switches in patterns of play would be the hall mark of these three men..

And for what its worth the team that I would pick for the Clare/Limerick game (assuming everyone is fit and available) : Paddy O Shea, Thomas Clancy, Eoin Cadogan, Stephen Cronin, Brian O Driscoll, Michael Shields, Conor Dorman, Alan O Connor, Ian Maguire, Colm O Driscoll, Mark Collins, John O Rourke, Donnacha O Connor, Brian Hurley and Colm O Neill

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

http://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/joe-brolly-it-was-humiliating-and-cork-are-dead-for-the-rest-of-the-championship-31175060.html
Brolly was right but imo rather than they players being at fault it's management cause lack of spirt
He's rarely wrong assessment teams and he's right no hope cork in the championship now
None

I take what Brolly has to say with a pinch of salt. When has the man ever given the Cork footballers any hope?? Never in my lifetime anyway. He has a bee in his bonnet about the way football is played right now and still lauds Kerry as the masters, even though Fitzmaurice had to go back to mo direach football last year to beat Mayo with Donaghy and then setup a Tyrone style blanket defence to beat Donegal. Give me a break but Brolly might need to come down of his high moral ground and have a look at where this negative football originated...yes Joe in your very own province...it is a northern construct that has the game in such a state and shows the real reasons why Cork havent adapted frm 15 v 15 to blanket and zonal defences...To say Cork have no chance is a bit narrow minded....we'll still make it to the August bank holiday weekend and you never know after that...League is league but championship is a whole different ball game entirely..

kilmac14 wrote: »

I take what Brolly has to say with a pinch of salt. When has the man ever given the Cork footballers any hope?? Never in my lifetime anyway. He has a bee in his bonnet about the way football is played right now and still lauds Kerry as the masters, even though Fitzmaurice had to go back to mo direach football last year to beat Mayo with Donaghy and then setup a Tyrone style blanket defence to beat Donegal. Give me a break but Brolly might need to come down of his high moral ground and have a look at where this negative football originated...yes Joe in your very own province...it is a northern construct that has the game in such a state and shows the real reasons why Cork havent adapted frm 15 v 15 to blanket and zonal defences...To say Cork have no chance is a bit narrow minded....we'll still make it to the August bank holiday weekend and you never know after that...League is league but championship is a whole different ball game entirely..

Brolly was right when critsed cork in 2012 as cork craved a blankets
He said in April that year donegal would win the all Ireland
Said donegal would beat cork
I don't always agree with him but he's excellent pundit and he calls it as it is



Forget this changing of the argument to brolly against cork which imo your going away from the tangent of debate and for whatever reason you convently ignore management in all of this let's call a spade a spade here
It's not narrow minded as you say but imo realistic to say cork won't win against top teams when I suggest you look at our defence and our counter attacking play and it's clear to all that cork are miles off what's required to beat Dublin and also donegal or kerry
This talk ah well get to quarter final well see we get bounce ball
This is elite senior intercounty football and you earn your wins you don't hope you get breaks etc
Cork are delaying the inevitable at best
Look at Liverpool leinster same talk ah well have issues but ignore them, sooner or later they come back to haunt teams and the chickens coming home to roost now and cork football confidence is shattered as huge defeat and one point from play close fifty minutes just seven in total is so poor it will Rock this team added in to the huge score they conceded
Imo you fool no one but yourself with your views



It's nonsense to blame ulster evolution of the game for cork failure as if to say that had no right but to change the game
They had every right and we'll within the laws of the games to do do and like any sport if the game changed up others to adapt and over come the challenges


That argument you could say cork changed the style of game in power and brute force in their win and other counties who hasn't such force could say ah cork stopped us winning and forced us change
That sport, nothing has or will ever change their in those that adapt survive so unfortunately your argument their imo has no logic



Kerry played horses courses selection in their awesome wonderful win last year in lost games and like great management they had they with average team adapted and embraces new ways away from traditional ways to win
Cork have no excuses now not to adapt


Your entitled to your view blame everything bar cork management but lot fans see issues that haven't just been here yesterday but for the last year with this team and in any sport buck stops with management


Colm o driscoll tell me examples when he has scored much barely if lucky one point from play couldn't score v non interested kerry or donegal


As for dinnen I do appreciate and understand some parts west cork over haven rivalry with other clubs like one dinnen original left from allows that cloud their judgements on him but he's best club midfielder in cork and was readerns team of the year and also brilliant v croke two year ago

Clancy is not a corner back and surely after yesterday proves half backs don't make corner backs

As regards your team you start with paddy o shea and Alan o Connor who from being from West cork surely realise o Connor struggled in junior game yesterday so how with no league training get up to fitness in seven weeks
Half back line is too attack minded and Brian driscoll should be half forward
I agree with the rest of your team
To say we judge management in august imo we have seen plenty to judge them now and it's not lookin good

As regards your management their good choices but gene and clearly and English be much better and more proven imo

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

You can't actually be serious


We had three humiliation defeats to Dublin last year, kerry and now yesterday and then mayo tore us apart in the second half we had the scraping of wins v tipp last year, the shirade of dualism, the scraping of wins this and last year league by a point and your annoyed by negative views


With respect geuinely what do you expect
Story cork football is there's never a rock bottom but a culture of attuide in were too harsh, don't critse, don't embrace change, stick set update that are not progressing and waste golden talents


Let's be realistic rather than the perception you have
Yes cork had lost leaders but KK and kerry under good management build and develop new leaders
The way you talk is oh last team are fine it's an excuse say we won't win another all Ireland

Don't forget cadogan, shields, colm. Doc, Goulding sullivan etc all Ireland winners and clancy halloran Collins all big game under age experience and dorman o driscoll etc huge experience with ucc


You mention midfield correctly
But who's fault is it??
I said this time and time again dinnen and kiely and leary never got a chance yet cussen is recalled and cadogan and sullivan and gould are tried so management are at fault
You forget Dublin missed mcauley and introduce seven lads this year that were either new or just back from injury so Dublin hardly at full strength

Who did cotk miss that could made available difference
Maguire yes but would been negated as Dublin still had two effective midfielder
Kelly would made no difference as either him or Collins to start or o rourke as colm and Kevin are automatic with this management as games prove
Doc like wise if he started he's replacement is another player like him when we carry two working hard forwards we still loose


You are wrong in no cork did not start midfield with out midfielder ist time ever yesterday
This midfield started other league games this year your are wrong and management had plenty examples to know they were not at the required level

You say ken is at fault yet you acknowledge we have no midfield so how can you blame him
Please tell me who is your keeper
Remember price got dripped, hanahran form was poorer. Martin fine keeper but too young and o shea poor club to weeks ago

What a nonsense of excuse Dublin had an advantage in croke park
That's always the case
Up to cork to counter that

Let's set the record straight

Cork brought on a half forward at half back in o driscoll and again then loughrey a half back man marking one of the best corner backs in the game
We waited fifty minutes to change the half forward
We conceded 8-130in right games in the blanket defence and have the worst record in the league yet Dublin who started the blanket same tile as cork actually to be exact after us as we changed it for the sligo game and yet conceded just four -101 approx so there's no excuse for cork failure to implement the system


I suggest you read my post a page back or research cuthbert record with minors and senior lastly two years and what stands out clearly all he's team can't defend as they conceded huge scores and defence wins games in championship and forwards decide by how much


You also convently forget with respect cork failed for an hour to score v Waterford from play, against tipp went a half, against kerry last year and mayo large spells where we don't score
Now all of the issues I raised have not happened once or twice but repeated time and again and incentives is an accident more than once is a trend


This over reaction negative nee jerk reaction imo only speak from my view but I suggest with respect your look at my post last week and before and at the start of the league and last year championship I repeated these concerns so that hopefully will show it's far from a knee jerk reaction but in fact as harsh as it is forever me a long time lover all things cork gaa to say the harsh realities in cork football



When do cork football start to question things????
And your seem to work respect blame everything bar management
You do realise surely sexton and sullivan and Davis great great servants forward cork hsve no record at management at any level
Cuthbert imo would be a fine administration but out of he's depth at senior and with minors while had munster win he chopped and changed the team all the way to an all Ireland and club record with Bishopstown and Ballyclough was poor

Clsre won senior all Ireland with young team, donegal won one with no all Ireland winners and cork have all Ireland winners at under twenty one and senior so hsve no excuse not to be challenging for glory
Your entitled to your view and while I respect it clearly imo you have no logic behind it in facts prove most of the issues in the set up with cork management have to hold the large share of responsibility

First things first TTM I have a right to my opnions and to say that I cant back up my facts is just you having a rant. I totally agreed that management have alot to answer for but to constantly question and crib about Cuthbert and his style, tactics and ability are extremely childish in my view. Like it our lump it he was given the job by the County Board and as supporters we should at least try to get behind him.

Also I havent the time or inclination to read back through your posts as there are many other knowledgable people on this forum whom I would agree with.

Looking back to last year, yes we lost to Dublin, Kerry and Mayo and they, along with Donegal are the top four counties in Gaelic football at the moment. Yes we got hammered by Dublin in the league semi final last year and the Munster Final was an absolute disaster, but its not today or yesterday that that started to happen. You must remember we are the only dual county whom are almost expected to win AI's in both codes. Kerry are a dual county but a primarily Football one, same with Dublin, Mayo and Donegal.

We in Cork, and it pains me to say it, are primarily a hurling county and football has always been the poor relation. So thus this expectation that we should somehow be competing every year for Sam is alittle fanciful if you think about it.

The issues with Cork football have always and ever been two fold:

1) Cork football has no notable style or pattern. Kerry have the traditional Catch and Kick married with speed and strength. Dublin have high athleticism and skillful ball players.

2) The Cork footballing strongholds of Carbery/Beara, Duhallow, Muskerry arent producing the same quality of player that they did in the past. This fixation of alot of coaches to have atheletes instead of ball players has seriously weakened Cork football.

You also brought up the point about Cuthberts inability or unwilingness to make changes and make the right ones. We as far as I can remember this has been a trait of alot of past managers in Cork aswell. Counihan started Kieran O Connor in 09 AI against Declan O Sullivan, Billy Morgan's second spell in charge where he kept picking the likes of Conor McCarthy who were'nt good enough IMO for the Cork setup. So yes Cuthbert isnt the right man for the job there arent exactly a long list of coaches to pick frm here in Cork. You spoke on a previous post about Ned English or Gene O Driscoll. Now having seen teams coached by Ned on numerous occasions over the past ten years I couldnt think of anything worse that a team who handpasses the ball 500 times in a game while refusing to kick the ball and Gene is quite a good coach but while his Carbery Senior side are a decent enough side, he's no tactical genius either.

I also wanted to stress that looking at the past three of four minor and U21 Cork football teams, none of them have had very good defences, and very few defenders have come frm those teams to play senior IC.

My point regarding midfielders was that Fintan Goold, Conor Dorman or Eoin Cadogan have rarely if ever played there for there clubs and expecting them to plug a gap at IC is a joke. The point about Dineen and O Laoire are well IMO and having played with Dineen, he hasnt the ability to be an IC player. O Laoire might be needs to bulk up if he wants to play there.

As for the goalkeeper, well IMO do we also have to pick players who played underage for the county, because I feel that there are better kickers of the ball in Cork that Ken O Halloran. Martin might be young but sure give him a go, nothing to loose by trying him. Tommy Lyons gave Cluxton his chance in 2001 and he has changed to art of kickouts. Ken's big problem is his acuracy and his lack of variety. Its basic stuff if your losing midfield dont keep pumping high ball in there especially when u have no natural fielder of the ball in there.

Plus any team to lose seven AI winners in one winter are bound to struggle. Cork doesnt have the same culture of developing talent in the mould that Kerry or KK have.

And my last point is that TTM, yes you do make some very valid points but saying these arent much good on a forum its at a County Board meeting or Club meeting that these views need to aired. Having spent quite a while going to County Board meetings their are a number of high profile men on that board that would love nothing better than seeing the footballers fail and the hurlers.

kilmac14 wrote: »

First things first TTM I have a right to my opnions and to say that I cant back up my facts is just you having a rant. I totally agreed that management have alot to answer for but to constantly question and crib about Cuthbert and his style, tactics and ability are extremely childish in my view. Like it our lump it he was given the job by the County Board and as supporters we should at least try to get behind him.

Also I havent the time or inclination to read back through your posts as there are many other knowledgable people on this forum whom I would agree with.

Looking back to last year, yes we lost to Dublin, Kerry and Mayo and they, along with Donegal are the top four counties in Gaelic football at the moment. Yes we got hammered by Dublin in the league semi final last year and the Munster Final was an absolute disaster, but its not today or yesterday that that started to happen. You must remember we are the only dual county whom are almost expected to win AI's in both codes. Kerry are a dual county but a primarily Football one, same with Dublin, Mayo and Donegal.

We in Cork, and it pains me to say it, are primarily a hurling county and football has always been the poor relation. So thus this expectation that we should somehow be competing every year for Sam is alittle fanciful if you think about it.

The issues with Cork football have always and ever been two fold:

1) Cork football has no notable style or pattern. Kerry have the traditional Catch and Kick married with speed and strength. Dublin have high athleticism and skillful ball players.

2) The Cork footballing strongholds of Carbery/Beara, Duhallow, Muskerry arent producing the same quality of player that they did in the past. This fixation of alot of coaches to have atheletes instead of ball players has seriously weakened Cork football.

You also brought up the point about Cuthberts inability or unwilingness to make changes and make the right ones. We as far as I can remember this has been a trait of alot of past managers in Cork aswell. Counihan started Kieran O Connor in 09 AI against Declan O Sullivan, Billy Morgan's second spell in charge where he kept picking the likes of Conor McCarthy who were'nt good enough IMO for the Cork setup. So yes Cuthbert isnt the right man for the job there arent exactly a long list of coaches to pick frm here in Cork. You spoke on a previous post about Ned English or Gene O Driscoll. Now having seen teams coached by Ned on numerous occasions over the past ten years I couldnt think of anything worse that a team who handpasses the ball 500 times in a game while refusing to kick the ball and Gene is quite a good coach but while his Carbery Senior side are a decent enough side, he's no tactical genius either.

I also wanted to stress that looking at the past three of four minor and U21 Cork football teams, none of them have had very good defences, and very few defenders have come frm those teams to play senior IC.

My point regarding midfielders was that Fintan Goold, Conor Dorman or Eoin Cadogan have rarely if ever played there for there clubs and expecting them to plug a gap at IC is a joke. The point about Dineen and O Laoire are well IMO and having played with Dineen, he hasnt the ability to be an IC player. O Laoire might be needs to bulk up if he wants to play there.

As for the goalkeeper, well IMO do we also have to pick players who played underage for the county, because I feel that there are better kickers of the ball in Cork that Ken O Halloran. Martin might be young but sure give him a go, nothing to loose by trying him. Tommy Lyons gave Cluxton his chance in 2001 and he has changed to art of kickouts. Ken's big problem is his acuracy and his lack of variety. Its basic stuff if your losing midfield dont keep pumping high ball in there especially when u have no natural fielder of the ball in there.

Plus any team to lose seven AI winners in one winter are bound to struggle. Cork doesnt have the same culture of developing talent in the mould that Kerry or KK have.

And my last point is that TTM, yes you do make some very valid points but saying these arent much good on a forum its at a County Board meeting or Club meeting that these views need to aired. Having spent quite a while going to County Board meetings their are a number of high profile men on that board that would love nothing better than seeing the footballers fail and the hurlers.

You are wrong to say not to get behind cuthbert is childish when every man woman and child support him and want him to do well but the point is he is at fault for the shambles
Typical cork football view you have as in we had the Tompkins disaster for seven years and the same view was get behind him but don't complain
Your right were unfortunately stuck with him but doesn't mean we have to fool ourselves and think we will improve as you can list me just even one example of how cork improved since he took over I'd be interested to know

Give me one example how cork improved under him
We have none imo

Your missing the point in no matter who is keeper won't make a blind difference to kick outs with no midfield
Your correct Morgan made mistakes a lot however he won two all Ireland in a row numerous times in kerry the last cork manager to do so and with ice and got to six finals so despite he's faults the best we had


Counihan had a lot faults and I totally agree regards o Connor but to say ah cuthbert makes mistakes look they did, stop being childish with respect comparing cuthbert to counihan as bad counihan was he's team in six years majority time bar six games never lost more than six points so to refresh your memory when cork loose under cuthbert they loose hugely

You say cork undrr twenty one teams had poor defences name the examples when despite not playing a blanket had actually better defence than this set up

You say gene is not tactical
He's won all Ireland at club and under twenty one minster and player seven man forwards v kerry this year and English yes hand passes a lot hpwevee did cork not hsmdpass 230 times v donegal and against Dublin so difference when English Clyda abs duhsllow and drom coll Broadford won munster club hand pass it's not lateral backwards but they actually create and he's defences actually concede less now if you're want I'll post he's teams defence records to prove it

English if he had cork players would have them kick passing and hand passing where needed as all he's teams always lacked forwards but he got every inch out of them but he would be brilliant with the proven clearly

Bar Mccarthy your two coaches are not really proven and bar daly who's proven in cork under twenty one three choices I have are all intercounty proven


Fair play you played with dinnen I'm glad you had the luxury and privilege to play with him, having watches him numerous times at club and saw him train ul camp last year where he was flying I belive certainly better than sullivan Gould cadogan and as you say there not natural midfielder and thar my point even dinnen not up it better than those
The view cork have no right to contesting forward all Irelands in football and blame the dualism is the typical stereotypes view imo that means cork football will never change and it's case we accept we no right be contesting every year but what do you want one all Ireland in twenty years
Sorry that's imo not good enough

There's no reason with the population and resources we have we cant compete every year
It's typical cork view use lazy excuses accept culture attuide rather than do what under twenty one football the Cork ladies football with no record of winning but they changed their culture to now dominate the game like Chelsea in soccer and leinster in rugby

Typical excuses in cork football
Dave Barry said lot good things today but he's way off cork can bounce back and Allen said cork players mentality was soft and awful disgusting wise blamed them and while joe kavanagh made good points what is alarming again not one questioned this management and I'd wonder are all these ex pundits handpicked in won't critse management so let's talk

Dog on the street can see cork management have to answer questions yet this set up are in fairness experts in the skill of four humiliating defeats I mean humiliating now yet they are immune from critsom
Unbelievable that there not questions but the players mental attuode questioned and hopefully some one in cork has the balls to defend these players


Not one pundit said management selection was wrong or poor coaching a blanket