Cork GAA Discussion Thread

thinkstoomuch1

SeaFields wrote: »

Hopefully that camera shot at the end was dr con telling cuthbert to walk immediately.

This fella wont walk

Let's be realistic now cork football needs to be

He sees himself as chosen one and all we hear is about process we look and review I can't explain why, just baffled but look we good league blah blah blah
We online one concern in kerry

Boys picked themselves up they will do it again

I won't apologies cork fans but look if some want non support cork that's there choice


This imo will be usual nonsense spoken now by him afterward


He's some manager talk the talk about systems and use fancy words but look he unfortunately hasn't a remote ideas even close to it manage senior elite intercounty team

Now those is nothing personal but using cody mantra judged on performance alone


I'm sorry Brian thanks effort and commitment you tried but look it not working
I'd sack him now before we rock killarney and cork football is destroyed again and tbh I don't see how we recover unless new management

Like he's tries recall old players and he went all out attack to defence

There's nothing else he has try problem is he is no idea how to implement any system that works
That simple

It's harsh but cork football needs some truth and honesty and it's not working
No signal or is but we're gone backwards absolutely backwards in progress

thinkstoomuch1

sean mac wrote: »

TTM, I know like you that management are out of their depth. However I still expect senior players to stand up and do something rather then lie down - TTM fellas didn't lay a finger today and that isn't good enough.
We are exactly where we were again last year which is soul destroying........its an awful waste of time, now for yourself, surely you can see alan oconnor to win a few kickouts is absolutely vital for cork.
But killareny is going to be absolutely awful

O Connor won't make blind bit difference with this set update Sean imo

thinkstoomuch1

commonsense. wrote: »

I'll leave ye at it for the week lads. The schadenfreude from some will be too hard to take. I'll check back in for the hurling final.

Surely a view that cork were awful and this is now a reoccurring trend deserves such justified performance critsom when this so called over reacting just my up of course is what last year v Dublin and kerry and mayo and again now is reason why cork are still not improving in there's never a rock bottom cork football


You been a excellent hurling poster surely appreciate just my opinion would acknowledge that lack over reaction in hurling led famine we have minor senior under twenty one and imo I would say over reaction is mot correct word more KK way, honesty and realism to say what is wrong is wrong and if good d it's good

Just my opinion

Nonoperational

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

Get realistic

Good structure and displincee comes from management

Look at same donegal team hammered then mcguiness takes over wins all Ireland

This is pathetic nonsense again blame players, players soft etc

In fairness management picked no midfield corner back who half two half forward offer nothing going forward a defence that is no where near a blanket

In fairness look at consistently appalling decision re calling old players back dualism non game time some going from all out attack to defence style with zero I mean zero clue how to implement it


Blame players lack attitude wrong how can you belive in this management

I said there clearly weakness areas all long so how in lord heaven how can players belive then in this set up
Your fail to see what glaringly obvious to do

Remember titanic sank with awful captain yet plane landed against odds river Hudson
Do you want to know why
Well one was an outstanding pilot and other was appalling captain ignored ice berg warnings
This management had numerous warning of issues team but oh no sail rights ahead you stormy seas


It's down to management and three no record at all in football

End of imo in nothing do players in ones that are line who picks them, management

Cork football is worst ever ebb

Players deserve little blame as this set up has been shambles day one and many examples not my opinion but fact proves so

What are you talking about? I don't rate this management at all, but the performance of the players today was poor, regardless of how they were set up.

We got to a league final and once again in a big game we got steamrollered. Are you honestly suggesting that the players acquitted themselves well today?

lukin

Shocking performance from Cork and it showed they have not progressed one iota from this time last year. We should beat Clare/Limerick comfortably but I'd say Kerry will destroy us. I feel sorry for the players and management as I genuinely believe they are trying their hardest but we are just not good enough.

Deco99

We'll beat kerry. We wont beat Dublin, a class apart. no wonder teams play ultra defensive against them, its thr only hope if you cant match their pacepace. Kerry have enough poor players that we will have a chance, and with that chance I see us getting a good result in a local derby. Rest of year we wont compete

windy shepard henderson

agree with the notion that cuthbert should have never got the job in the first place considering he never won anything , and i do also agree a good manager would use the approach of today of laying down a marker for the year by wining today (most likley going to be j.b.m's approach for next sunday)

but those players did'nt want to know anything about wining today they looked like they were just there to full fill the fiixture and nothing more , and in fairness the build up all week was about this been dublins last big test until august , you can probably forgive cuthbert for shrugging his shoulders after the game in his interviews but he did look fairly worried on the sideline and in truth 2-07 was a little flattering on cork i think

dublin are there for the taking later in the year though a period in the game where cork were well out of the game 6 points down in the first half dublin missed 3 fairly handy wides and gave away 3 handy scoreable frees to briefly let cork back into it surely a team like cork would fancy there chances at a 1/4 or semi final stage playing at championship mode

windy shepard henderson

Deco99 wrote: »

We'll beat kerry. We wont beat Dublin, a class apart. no wonder teams play ultra defensive against them, its thr only hope if you cant match their pacepace. Kerry have enough poor players that we will have a chance, and with that chance I see us getting a good result in a local derby. Rest of year we wont compete

i actually think kerry have been made stronger with the return of the gooch and tommy walsh give them 2 or 3 different attacking dimensions wheres dublin hve always been that bit flaky on the bigger occasions

zetecescort

we haven't a hope of beating Kerry but its not in their interests to destroy us, a reasonable performance in Killarney will be enough for the Cork county board to give Cuthbert at least another year

It makes sense

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

You can't blame loughrey when played out position

How many times did say he'd be roasted

Sean your astute man

Don't blame majority players when this management would make kerry Dublin look awful
There a joke and cork ex greats love talk like Larry Tompkins won't say word bout this management now

Cork media also be fair some need call spade spade this disaster cork football no more cherry picking
Imo they won't

Was waiting for this game to see the first real test of this year's team as did not believe the hype some were extending TI our chances this year a lot of people saying Curtbert had turned the corner and was onto something, could not agree more with what ttm said it was sad to see a hurling score put on our footballers and it could have been a lot more if Dublin wanted to be.

We have serious problems in most areas, especially the half back line, midfield and half forwards who cannot score god forbid shields, O'Neill or Hurley got injured, Cadogan must play in the full back line with proper corner backs.

Maybe people will now see the issues for what their are, I can only hope there is better to come but not with the current set up and team selection, today proved we have learnt nothing from the league campaign

sean mac

Deco99 wrote: »

We'll beat kerry. We wont beat Dublin, a class apart. no wonder teams play ultra defensive against them, its thr only hope if you cant match their pacepace. Kerry have enough poor players that we will have a chance, and with that chance I see us getting a good result in a local derby. Rest of year we wont compete

Not a ****ing hope, even if we had better players which we don't , they have a sideline that will focus on their strengths being strong and their weaknesses being hidden while cork ............well cork will turn up but could quite easil just give up like this team is now making a habit of when the pressure comes on.
TTM, while everyone I know acknowledged Cuthbert isn't related to an inter county manager there is a real softness about some of these cork players, fellas who don't like the closeness and toughness of games like today - plenty of them in this set up actually.
Notable exception john orourke who got injured going for a 50:50ball, hiopefully its not too serious.
If we ever start a defence with loughrey and Jamie osullivan in it again we can give up, as for the gurus idea that positions don't matter - they ****ing matter, when barry odriscoll comes on wing back, hodnett (out of his depth also) floats around midfield that istn tactics, that's cluelessness

thinkstoomuch1

Nonoperational wrote: »

What are you talking about? I don't rate this management at all, but the performance of the players today was poor, regardless of how they were set up.

We got to a league final and once again in a big game we got steamrollered. Are you honestly suggesting that the players acquitted themselves well today?

Well well break it down okay

Ken yes kick outs poor but Clutton be poor no midfield


Galvin started and okay however no protection from half back or midfield or he confidence gone from not starting original

Shields proven player no protection

Loughrey is NOT NEVER WAS A CORNER BACK
Said this time and again

Dorman good but taken off but balance all wrong too attack minded half back

Sullivan got for pace nit centre back

Clancy food player

Cadogan not midfielder never was confidence shattered when moved back
Gould asked do job he can't big game
Don't blame gould any more blame management pick him

Kevin colm are work horses can't create so cork as said could happen here Thursday after team named won't give hurley or colm any ball so make them look poor

O rourke tried

Collins terrific effort but moved around so much doesn't know he's identify am I midfield or tracker as forward

No system and awful tacking is poor coaching as again like said since winter look my posts you don't believe me cuthbert doing most coaching

I'm sorry be blunt geuinely dont mean be but blaming players is wrong as gives this awful truly awful management excuse and the immunity critsom and don't you know they blame players if last year anything go by

Dublin were not even in ist gear

ShamoBuc

Deco99 wrote: »

We'll beat kerry. We wont beat Dublin, a class apart. no wonder teams play ultra defensive against them, its thr only hope if you cant match their pacepace. Kerry have enough poor players that we will have a chance, and with that chance I see us getting a good result in a local derby. Rest of year we wont compete

We'll beat Kerry...Kerry have enough poor players....

There's simply no chance whatsoever of us going to Kerry and winning.
Could you please list all those poor Kerry players that will start v cork ??

thinkstoomuch1

sean mac wrote: »

Not a ****ing hope, even if we had better players which we don't , they have a sideline that will focus on their strengths being strong and their weaknesses being hidden while cork ............well cork will turn up but could quite easil just give up like this team is now making a habit of when the pressure comes on.
TTM, while everyone I know acknowledged Cuthbert isn't related to an inter county manager there is a real softness about some of these cork players, fellas who don't like the closeness and toughness of games like today - plenty of them in this set up actually.
Notable exception john orourke who got injured going for a 50:50ball, hiopefully its not too serious.
If we ever start a defence with loughrey and Jamie osullivan in it again we can give up, as for the gurus idea that positions don't matter - they ****ing matter, when barry odriscoll comes on wing back, hodnett (out of his depth also) floats around midfield that istn tactics, that's cluelessness

Sean I agree to most post but most these under twenty one former lads were fine but haven't development under this management

We havent a hope against kerry

thinkstoomuch1

I actually done this post this week and prove it I mentioned here I had long post but holding off post it last week in i felt lead up national final some may seem it very negative and usual stuff be said
I held off
I post it now as lot it imo relevance cork problems



This is not hurler on dtich view as any one here knows I mentioned in shorter version lot worries I had cork football last two weeks in posts that mentioned here
Here is just more in depth assement

There was many an article from last year in the media that imo shows how cork were looking good but meant to be evolving but never did
I remember reading one after derry were beaten by a point at home yet derry got two goals
The key was the point how as good as cork were they allowed a poor derry back in to the game

My point is look last year it looked rosy when it wasn't as weak aera were not solved imo
I have a huge worry so far in year and half in cork management get carried away with what team doesn't good and doesn't focus on what they do bad or else it's a case they do but dont actually have the coaching skillset to fix it

Now fast forward a year, beaten by donegal, edged past Tyrone and monaghan due to late burst but only just
Hurley this league like o Neill have been just as good last year , problem is when in championship they are starved of possession
Here last year it was said cork were conceding too much but cork were cork too attack minded
It was ignored by management then

Huge huge concerns is talks about cork blankets , defenders speak about defence evolving against a ponderous derry conceded too much we hear last week lessons must be learned from cuthbert defending wise.
Again credit due he spoke after donegal about conceding too much but what is he going to do to solve it?!???

Management has to take responsibility for this than preach to the player's improve when he picks too attack minded half back like in driscoll dorman and clancy with no defender with the mindset of the mind a house defender , picks outstanding attacking half back corner back and the defence conceded twenty points again that showed zero improvements from V derry who an awful derry opened cork up at will and allow for under standable cork had little interest in the game,the level of defending stills was horror , and a week later ten points in the ist half that even donegal fans on their thread were surprised they scored so much so fast so imo cork management must drop talking the talk and walk the walk

What is talking about defensive structure being need of improvements when we're clearly is off in art of defending as it's like basketball at times in no context or really intensity with cork and cork have zero balance at half back but brilliant attacking players
Cadogan is played out of positions when he'll be needed at full v Donaghey so wouldn't cork be better served playing him there and shields also and half back line of loughrey,clancy and the other chancy possibly so cork defence is getting comfortable as a unit and develop cohesive and an understanding
I fully understand and appreciate cuthbert is right cork need adaptable players in the middle eight but imo playing best man markers in best positions surrounded by a blanket surely is better than playing two half backs corner back like Sunday

Dorman has been terrific but it's a straight choice between him and loughrey imo for one position as two can't be accommodated at half back as too attack minded, loughrey getting a tentative vote as he is more experienced and cork need that v kerry and once he's defensive duty is in not defend space and one v one he's actually quite good

Collins imo caught between playing half forwards In defence role and midfield doesnt know when to hold and sweep and moved from pillar to post understandbly he is more covering as a sweeper as effectively as he should

Cork last year conceded 11-117 approx in the league playing attack minded football
This year is improvement on last year with 7-109 or so approx conceded by 18 points but imo hardly spectacular when cork meant be defensive from attack last year
Around two point average or so improvement per game, but look at Dublin this year
Last year kerry had in the league two real targets, focus on the defence and introduce a few young players
They did and had the best defensive record last year league so they knew they had a system for the championship
Like cork they had to go defensive but by the end of the league they had one
Dublin like kerry this year had to do the same and they have a defensive structure
Cork had to do the same but let's call it as it is its appalling defence compared to Dublin yet both started the same time
So it imo shows coaching and selection players being picked is a concern as Dublin are improving it cork aren't
Dublin are still looking for a centre back but there still better defensive style and when find a centre back they will be very hard to break down
Cork unlike Dublin while still looking for a centre back imo crucially not in management eyes as they seem to think the half back unit is fine at present

Cork scored around 11-128 up to the this point last, years this year 14-100 so while cork are only 19 or so points off this year my point that's significant is cork were scoring free flowing in championship last year and despite setting world alight in league football come championship it wasn't much good as in order to score well everything else that changed in the modern game they one thing that nevertheless has or never will is you actually need possession to score just like a car need fuel , a plant need water , a car needs fuel , to score you need possession
Cork were starved of this this years and unfortunately I fear despite wonderful forward in hurley and o Neill cork won't get enough ball to score
The space that cork attacked donegal and kerry up the middle this league and got goals is a FALSE FALSE DAWN as both counties fans tell your none of the two had any interest in the league and compare donegal in Ballybofey to croke park and Christ above a blind man can see the difference
That day as cork will find in championship v donegal were cynical in slowing down the game tempo and stop cork momentum and hit everything that moved with fair intensity and once the game becomes slow and middle space is closed it stops cork running through from half back real real problems exist as decision making and creativity from half forward is way way off required imo to break the blanket as come championship they will be no space in the middle third

In this times interview he spoke about cork opening up donegal a lot http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/brian-cuthbert-happy-for-cork-to-go-back-in-order-to-go-forward-1.2173312

On the contrary Gallagher spoke how donegal were more opening then normal
Who are we to believe
Fair enough both management talk up their team so look at the evidence
Imo a donegal team that didn't conceded four goal to cork in donegal or kerry or Dublin in the league and didn't conceded four goals championship games I guess four years I'm to belive it's was nothing clinical bout cork but a non interested donegal

http://m.rte.ie/sport/gaa/football/2015/0412/693649-cuthbert-cork-needed-a-big-croke-park-performance/
Gallagher said it there more or less donegal had no interest and legs were tired as they obviously were training hard during the week
And he said Gallagher was fit to play but he didn't play him clear as day manager know interest to win this game
I posted at half time cork would win as donegal had ist half performance they wanted and sure look what happened after half time game over

Cuthbert said that ist fifteen minutes were like intense, imo which he is right but the whole ist half he needs to examine as cork drew with them , midfield imo cleaned out and they opened cork up at ease
He says the last fourteen or so minutes second half were like a challenge match and I'n interview said in times wouldn't dismiss totally a challenge
Well my take is simple, ist half was not really anywhere near championship but donegal had interest to be competitive for one half but after half time had none
The half time donegal talk I guess was we drew with them this half look we beat them already, nothing there to fear let them have this one

If you look hard enough like the great managers I mean the great really really greatest manager any sport have this insane admirable quality to even in meaningless less game a ability and ruthless conviction to still know what minimum standards are for players and know when to say they played well but level opportunity easy not great but looks at what they failed to do
If cork actually learned anything important from the ist half they would made have changes after twenty minutes
Talking the talking Imo from any manager becomes nauseating and tiresome regards defence improvement if the mistakes are not being corrected as then it's fair to wonder are manager bluffing their way through than actually being good enough
Again go back to Jim gavin example , he blamed himself after donegal past year
He was right he was he's faults
He has learned imo any on road redemption

Has cuthbert ever or he's selectors showed same humble nature and honesty within to say look I got it wrong last year I made mistakes , no he has not but closest we as group got it wrong he says
He stopped short apologies to cork fans after kerry
Imo I hugely worry this set up has not the character of manager like gavin purely as a manager to say hang on a minutes I can't blame players when I'm actually wrong
I hope to god for cork football some one says to the looks ye need to look at yere management and yere making mistakes and you can't expect players to win if they make the same mistakes also again and again

Some fans never cease amaze me , talk is how cork were breath taking in four goals and cork are better than last year and learned from last year

The goals were finished wonderfully yes but looks at the space created by poor non interested donegal defending
This is nothing as rosy as it being made out to be imo

I suggest anyone gets carried away with donegal game as wow we got four goals and we looked good go too donegal thread where fans clearly said no intention beating cork , one said he feared donegal when they went ahead were going to win
The dog on the street know they did not want to win
So imo forget the second half judge the ist half where seriously issues were exposed

Compare their Intensity to the Dublin league game and to the semi final and cork league game weeks ago it was world's apart

That second half was like a barbarian style rugby game at the end of may with no organisations or intensity in was easy on the eye,the host teams wins with forty points scored or more and poor out half looks the bees knees as like yesterday no real game management is needed

Now unfortunately me being realistic puts me imo as not giving cork credit and not support myself teams and as always against the management
I could sit on the fence and say nothing at all but then when it goes wrong then be the real wise pundit after
That imo is wrong
I would love cork to fix the problems I mention and win.
If cork are to win the all Ireland they have to solve them.

As known I support all cork teams from minor to ladies etc
Irish by birth cork by the grace of God
What I'm doing is not negative but realistic imo as don't accept this acceptable glory hunting of false dawns when we have huge issues going forward
We beat Dublin in croke park last year and I saw plenty of promise and praised them and said just learn lessons of the game
My difficulty is when same mistakes get repeated I begin to loose confidence
Interestingly cork are Seven half to one for the all Ireland miles off Dublin and kerry
Cork are joint third favourite with mayo but that's cause there's no other really stand out and imo donegal further back in fourth as there in ulster mine field cork have easier run to possible qualifier all Ireland
Mayo imo who have missed the boat and with compared last year much weaker in loss ed coughlan and outstanding James horan are hardly imo all Ireland contenders but they think that cork no better than mayo
Truth be told cork have golden opportunity to challenge for all Ireland as top threw if they got act together as rest field is poor
It wont always be that way though as kevin Walsh outstanding manager that's proven will improve Galway and they are playing deeper also but have a midfield and forwards
I belive meath if they got free run of injury would have good chance in a qualifier and there one team I'd not like to meet in Tullamore or portlaoise and while there in a poorer division than division one what strikes me is there second best defensive record in division two, there clearly gone defensive with Dublin in mind but still score
Meath are not telling the whole place like cork there defensive but doing talking on field and unlucky not get promoted but finished second with roscommon on points.
Meath who never really under o dowd favoured a sweeper system have clearly changed and played one this year in some games
They seem tighter at the back and learned lessons from when apparently Galway opened them up at will
My point is a division two team who were like cork attack minded have changed and became better defensive
Cork have shown no improvement in the defence system imo
I can't believe few pundits failed realise cork poor defensive record, either they have and choose to turn a blind eye to it.

If cork didn't qualify for the league but sorted midfield and had like kerry last year and Dublin this year had done so, I'd be happier as I then know cork solved two weak areas that crippled us last year
We havent at all at all solved those crucial areas

To say cork done all that's was asked them imo it is not true they did not
Yes credit due and thank god were not relegated but we did not solve midfield or defence really????so we did not do all that was asked of them
Cork were not as bad results wise as I feared but midfield and defence there's been little if any improvement

We can cover of up all day long cork problems as we please but with the greatest respect we should look at other counties and say we cant become them in they had huge issues in management no proven successful management team, some never learned mistakes from last year yet in January some would have you they were actually in reality all Ireland contenders
They never were unfortunately but yet they yet again and again build themselves up with false home only to be disappointed again as failure league shows

Id rather be deemed blunt and negative but realistic than have suffer humiliating embarrassment of thinking were flying, rock down to kerry yet like many many times only to be beaten again and wise after the event only to be seen as utterly naive and foolish

I was a naive foolish fan for so so long growing up and was like many , one victory here and there I blew them up and never realised the games at face value
However being a cork football supporter after so long it hardened me up as a fan where I decided I had seen enough false dawns to say as much as I want to be postive and let my emotions ride high and say cork have hope I now have changed , unless I have justified confidence in a team I see no point in trying to think otherwise as false dawns absolutely destroy teams imo of evolution that which is paramount to success as you can never solve a problem if you cod yourself in to thinking none exists
Acceptance is the ist step in any solution
I have the same attuide with all sport teams now
When a team deserves credit I'll laud them all day long with it

This league has been okay as we're not relegated but I stop short saying it's been a success, Dublin is a true test
I hope Dublin stick to the defensive style and not go all out attack
Dublin probably won't hammer cork but the test is if Dublin get a lead how they react
Dublin at full back is there for the taking if o Neill gets ball but the sweeper gives him problems getting quick ball in isolation Against best defence in the league

Cork in the last six years got to four league finals but have one all Ireland compared to kerry with two
If anything past history should tell us take it with a pinch of salt if we're winning despite huge weakness still there
You don't just have weakness in the team like cork have, and roll up in killarney against the improving all Ireland champions where your haven't won in an age and expect all to be resolved , you must show signs of improvements along the way

Before anyone thanks I'm harsh just consider two questions?
Are cork defensively sound eight games in
No as the statics show
And have cork a midfield to win aerial ball with strength in depth
No
Both these stats are not my opinion but a fact clear as day anyone can see
Imo a bit done with this team but a he'll of a lot work to do with time running out fast before killarney beckons

Just look at other teams who have false dawns
England soccer piss through the qualifying again and again but as Italy proved in challenge match still can't bear the top teams
Conor o shea in harlequin rugby another nice fella but a terrible pundit imo as he's too nice and it shows as rugby manager
He is better as director in English rugby where he was before in some role but he is an awful manager
This guy was tipped as Ireland manager before Joel schmidt
The false dawn is in a horrible horrible premiership of rugby harlequin look good and flatter to deceive but in Europe couldn't even get out of their group and are actually poor and as seen when despite two extra men for a bit struggled beat dire Gloucester yesterday but we're humiliating defeat to sarcens recently and big games he's found out
But have no doubt their fans year on year claim this is their year for a European cup

Limerick hurling blew up tj Ryan unfairly as a great manager when he was never that and bar a county with Kilworth has an appalling record
Last year success was limited imo and a false dawn as come the league they were absolutely dismal with great talent available

Liverpool went on a good run of games after November but huge issues in the team same problems never fixed
Their fans foolishly thought we turned a corner we can get fourth
Ist big games at the crunch end of the season they loose and fourth looks gone possibly may be saved by man City blow up as they have a over rated manager also who luckily scraped league last year

Stuart Barnes wrote a article blowing Northampton up at the start of the European cup and I posted then as examples another example of being blown up with no justifying logic to it

My point is there is some not all but some fans and media who blow teams chances out of proportion with out logic despite glaringly weak areas existing and it creates false perception their team has a chance when truth be told if signs were not ignored then it would be seen in truth they meter had a chance to begin with imo

These examples come to my next point
I don't or never have been to a England soccer match recently or Northampton or harlequin ones so I wouldn't be any way an expert on there teams in depth but from watching key games on tv and compared the one's they over time to current times it is easy to assess whether a team improves or not
It's quite easily done by any fan imo

I just watch old games they were beaten in, watch the new ones and rather than belive every huge hype in some media,I make my own judge ment on what I see before me
It's quite clear to see if teams improved or not
Also by picking out brutal honest writers and reading them, who call it as it is you learn a lot too

The point I'd make is if you do that trait with the cork football team and look at defeats last year and then watch the wins this year etc and the defeats,the same problems cork had then are actually the same as now and there's huge worries going forward

If cork are beaten again this year, the usual nonsense is spoken, we don't have the players, their over rated not as good as kerry etc when the fact is we actually do have the players but the wrong ones are being picked and they don't have the level of coaching elite that donegal Dublin and kerry had

Year two in this management imo was meant imo getting to an all Ireland final for cork , we're way way off despite having experienced of lads who won an all Ireland.

There is a false myth portrayed by some,that cork are young and inexperienced when it's the biggest pile of nonsense I ever heard when cadogan shields , colm o Neill Goulding, donnacha,kelly, Kerrigan all won all Irelands and loughrey has huge experience from antrim plus clancy, hurley Collins o rourke are not novices any more at this level
All you got to do is look at and it's clear cork have a lovely blend of youth and experience avaliable and there's simply no excuse not to be winning all Irelands or at least contesting finals when you see the armagh, Tyrone the donegal etc winning the last ten it so years

Rebelmor your absolutely right in your assement of the blanket regards cork
And the point is who is to blame, imo eight games in its awful awful reflection coaching that cork still are not any where near effective to this

Dublin played five o Bryne cup games with a host of young lads but from day one they started to build the defence structure and in five games conceded 3-43 which shows imo how fast they worked it in at this early stage they per game conceded an average of below a goal and nine or so per game back a few months ago
Even against waterford and tipp our defence structure was poor and against tipp where we went a half with out score from play and then v Waterford could not break down the blanket
Now credit due we have dropped some of the poor players played in those games that while good club players never deserved a chance yet with all respect to them Desmond and hazel got games yet Stephen cronin or dan mceoin never got as many chances

Cork nearly five months in , with nearly ten or so games played have not improved the defence at all at all and were on the eve of championship Football yet cork management are now never
questioned on this at all at all

However I don't see how some cork fans who was doubting this management only as far back as January suddenly says cork showed solid signs of being championship contenders this year and that there is signs of a solid defensive structure from last year when cork have outside kerry conceded worst scoring in the league and conceding huge scores I don't see this
To concede 7-109 in eight games is a worry
The point some make is cork negatives like midfield are down to injury
Take the last two defensive teams that won the all Ireland donegal and kerry, when they implement defensive style they used league as a means to do this

Donegal in the year they won the all Ireland in 2012 conceded 8-74 in the group stages and that was a year after they actually had built one and were trying to be more attack minded and while not best in the league at that time had solid foundation which to build on
Dublin who were all out attack in 2013 league just conceded 5-73 just kerry conceded in group stages LAST year league kerry had conceded a higher 8-94 but crucially was the best in the league and they improved it as time went on

Before cuthbert a non defensive blanket counihan defence with issues imo in defence conceded in 2013 4-85 in group stages and the year before in the league just one 75 conceded in winning groups stages in 2012 but when you include the semi final brings it to around 2-87 conceded
Compared to now 7-109 To the semi final yet this year we have a blanket

Since cuthbert took over cork last year conceded 9-97 In the league In the group stages but up to the semi 11-117
What imo has saved cork defence from being higher in concessions update to this year semi unlikely last year's is cork met team this year league semi final that had no interest to win unlike Dublin last year
The bottom line is since cuthbert took over imo the defensive system in the leagues has actually been extremely poor, rapidly gone down hill since counihan which imo begs the question does he teams actually know how you defend effectively
Against kerry in championship cork conceded 24 point yet this much talked about blanket v mayo conceded 1-19 and mayo hardly have array top forward scoring wise

I really questions he's team defending wise
Yes key players retired but still cork have still great defenders important if played in the best positions
Go back to minor in 2010 he while manager chopped and changed players in every game and they conceded 9-65 and got to the all Ireland final in six games
They conceded five goals to Galway While be fair in most games cork came back from the dead v Galway and kerry and against Tyrone he's teams imo either scrape to wins or loose, never entirely comfortable
They conceded 19 points to armagh If it happens one it's an accident but upon in depth review imo clear as manager cuthbert teams concede way too much so he imo has a lot to learn

While gene o driscoll had huge inputs in coaching I think cuthbert was main man picking the team as seen by he's consistency from minor management in now at senior picking lads out of positions

Imagine a George hook eammon dunphy types or Neil francais pundit in cork football they would or pat Spillane in kerry absolutely highlights this with their team's in no uncertain terns and clearly questions management
Cork on their other hand, fans thinking our defence is solid and no one really says this is poor defending in cork main football game
I hope cork ex greats say this our defensive system I's shambles so come championship it may be fixed

If conceding 7-109 is solid I sincerely hope I never see the day our defensive is poor in some people eyes

Imo no simply not can cork midfield problems be totally blamed on injury, that's a myth some try and create
Let's looking at the facts

Is Sean dinnen or kiely or laoire injured no their not
Maguire yes is a blow but they knew deane was out at the start of the year yet failed imo to try others rather than recall cussen that had no logic so imo not injury to blame but the management
We had kevin mcstay who imo should be mayo manager and the Dublin media telling us last spring how cork were real contenders
It's imo same again despite worry of three narrow last gasp wins, young Dublin missing key lads in ist game were hardly imo winning comfortable
Kerry and donegal imo non realistic games in didn't want to win
Donegal beat cork easily but the Murphy send off gave cork a moral victories imo

Is there a resemblance to last year
League
I think there is but let's prove it
Westmesth and Kildare who were dire last year and again this year cork actually struggled to beat them, point win v Kildare
They had one good win v Dublin in march like Tyrone away this year that showed imo promise
We beat kerry those and past years easily
We scraped a win v derry at home last year scraped a win away v monaghan
Mayo hammered us last year and derry this year
While those games be fair at the time the were played cork didn't have to win the similarities is like defeats to mayo and derry this year cork havent learned from the defeat in certain areas
We scraped past a awful mayo with joint manager's that won't work in cork despite being out played for large spells
Both this and lastly year were scoring well but conceding too much
I actually am struggling to find any real difference cork this year as last year this year's we topped the league
Flangan is the only key one imo a brilliant coach fitness but he's not tactical involved so imo same worries regards tactical ability this management and their perception judge players at elite level is exactly like last year's when you come last year's and this year
However one huge huge absolutely significant problems is while it was bad cork were known as too attack minded last year but this year were apparently defensive yet shockingly awful scoring concessions
So important if cork who meant be defensive offer those in the leagues and think it's acceptable this year is way worse than last year in this year the talk wash we learned from last year and fixed the mistakes when the evidence is proving different imo

Tompkins imo who is well able to talk regards how bad apparently football is and it's dying and rules need be changed , well just my opinion but Larry you should look closer to home regards the huge problems cork current football team have, before preaching to the country how to change a game that doesn't need to be changed

Larry goes on about the art and basics of the game are gone
Well you should tell that to the cork management who don't seem to understand two years in we have no ball winning midfield and seem happy to go along with no one effective their and our art of defending is dire to watch

As I said previously there's only fifteen numbers on the field so cork tactic of crabbing and swarming the midfield won't work as if that happens kerry and Dublin will have huge space to kick to as cork swarm aera others are free but also cork look light weight at midfield in context and kerry have powerhouse there that will break the tackle and challenge cork
Against monaghan Dublin when it went long to midfield cleaned out monaghan 24-8 a better monaghan midfield than cork
Cork won around thirty possessiona v donegal but most of those didn't go long so worry is Dublin


Ken o halloran could be cork saving grace v Dublin as he's without a doubt cork best shot stopper and could well be relied on make few saves
Yes kick outs are huge issue but I totally immune him from any blame in two years no effective midfield to aim at
You could put Sean firtpatrick one of the greatest hooker in rugby around in a a team and give him too second rows at international level, while good club players not international elite like Neil francais and Bob Casey and put them up against elite players like the John Eales and Fabien Pelous this world and he'd be made look ordinary at throwing.
Do you blame the greatest hooker in world rugby???
No he needs two not one but two locks who can win ball to aim at

Gould, credit due had a fine game v donegal but this was league football and he's had countless games I'n the past where he's been man of the match but against the elite midfielder like moran or maher or mcauley or o shea he imo won't do but yes he'll start off good with one trade mark point but when the need is greatest imo he won't deliver
He is a fine club player and is fine at a certain standard in the league in a comfort zone but when the level goes up he will struggle imo
It is like England playing Michael Carrick a fine player at club but he won't do v the german or Italian elite midfield as proven time and time again but still Hodgson persist with him
You don't blame the players you blame management for still picking them imo

Having 95 per cent better forwards than others is useless if cork don't get enough primary fast possession and you must not forget the two teams cork have to beat to win an all Ireland have top forwards like cork, in Dublin have mcnemmon flynn kilkenny etc but then go one step further and kerry have James o dounoughe and the Gooch. and geaney and Darren o sullivan and Donaghey so kerrys attacking threat is equal to cork but actually better as they have a midfield to give them possession and a defence structure to break up cork attack that they can then counter at pace, all of which cork can't do

The two teams to focus on are kerry and Dublin in that five per cent Is the crucial worry for us as cork have to beat them to win the all Ireland
They have forwards like us.

Donegal if they come through the mine field of ulster and their old legs are still fresh if play cork have Murphy and mcbrearty forwards who can score but with the likes of mchugh and mcneilish better half forwards In not only can they work hard and track back unlike the driscoll brothers kevin and colm they can create with kick passing and score long distance
I'm not the only one that don't rate colm and Kevin as martin brehony gave them a six in ratings in he's article
If cuthbert as proved last year v mayo has to choose between colm and o rourke as mayo proved last year he'll start colm
Yet cuthbert in an interview to the score in the past said he rated o rourke hugely and had lot quality and if he was taller would be midfield player
But again this manager says a but does b in o rourke has been over looked many times
This year he's getting more games but will he start in championship
Go right back to the munster final nightmare after wards he said cork have huge problems winning ball and while he acknowledged cork need ball to score he said he'd solve that problem
Nearly a year later and cork when under pressure hsve huge issues to win primary ball with midfield problems
Imo it's all talk but no solution

Brian o driscoll is brilliant and was for the under twenty ones Thursday night a few weeks ago and all credit due and imo has it all
He deserves he's place

A half forward line of driscoll, Collins and o rourke with Collins as a sweeper and o rourke and driscoll as two engines who can track back but have the vision to counter at pace and score would be awesome for cork to supply hurley and o Neill in a two man full forward line with donnacha picked in the full forward line but playing as a deep lying centre forward to cover space of Collins when Collins plays a defensive quatre back sweeper role
Unlike the present half forward line cork can score from both inside and outside the blanket as o Connor, o rourke, Collins and Brian o driscoll can score long distance
Our current half forward line at present can't do that
Everybody critsed the hand passing in counihan times as over done
Cork hand passed around 230 times v donegal and barely kicked ball
Imo nothing to be applauded as while opens up kerrys and donegal non interested defence come championship this hand passing has huge problems as when you hand pass too much unlike kicking you essentially close off your point of attack space in you're really inky attacking in a confined zone that's easy to defend against and hand passes normally shortly looking for runners that's increase risks of turnovers in a blanket but kick passing is better as unlike the slow methodical build up play that's allows defensive teams funnelled back numbers when you're kick pass your bypass the blanket by using pace and width to change their angle if attacking and spread around defenders rather than keep them bunched so your create space for one v one

Hand passes imo are fine as a second phase in attack after kick passes open up space it's good to offload to space but cork problems are using imo handpassing too much to generate ist phase attack from possession.

Cuthbert should know from the all Ireland minor final as Tyrone funnelled back numbers and won turnover after turnover
It's was better when cork went long with fast direct kicking to ball inside did cork comeback but too little too late
People laud fourteen goals cork for this league as saying cork are hard to defend against this league but still at least seven of those goals are imo nothing true value as kerry no intention beating cork just back training and donegal were as Gallagher said not the normal intense team but way more open than normal.
Half our goals tally came in those two games
Last year we were very good in that regard we got eleven in the league but come championship couldn't get enough ball to our forwards

My full back line would be shields cadogan and of course galvin
Half back line of loughrey and Stephen o dounoughe and clancy with o dounoughe bulk and aggression and strenght to be used in he's a holding midfield presence that never attacks but holds the centre to stop a repeat of last year when mayo and kerry flooded through runners through the centre and it was like the river lee bursting it's banks, horrible to watch but too late to do anything to stop it

Midfield would be maguire and dinnen or leary

Cork fans imo are so despondent and desperate for success in football after years of famine that some at times want cork to do well imo at times the first victory they get carried away rather than keep the feet on the ground and judge at face value games

I understand I seem a harsh critics cork football but I simply belive in realism and point is I so negative is simply not by choice but the fact there's and it pains me to say it's as a hardcore football cork gaa man there's lot negative things with cork football at present
This view shouldn't need seen as non supportive of cork as I will be in kerry and croke park in and at ist round and wanted so badly cork to win and cuthbert and co be great managers but imo it's perfectly reasonable to highlight faults within any set up once they are plain to see
I want cork so badly do well but I realise They wont if they dont solve problems
Have no doubt kerry and Dublin see problems in cork.
Dublin have problems but I get a sense there actually trying to solve them.

This post is longer than I wanted but I always belive if you critsed something you should try and support this with as much logic and fact as possible
Cork football is imo crying out for honesty within just like the hurling was years ago but blinds eye were turned and were now in hurling ten years almost with out a senior all Ireland all because no one had the courage to say problems existed but no dare not critse motto
Cork gaa deserves so might more we must have honesty within or we will suffer with respect like limerick hurling,(not offending any limerick fans just calling it as it is as record at seniors shows) England soccer , Liverpool this world, French rugby lots outstanding talent that don't get the success they once had.
Again it comes back to cody way, it's tough to critse your own but it's tough love.

thinkstoomuch1

http://m.rte.ie/sport/gaa/football/2015/0426/696919-cork-brian-cuthbert-dublin-league-final/

As I predicted the interview would be

Along similar lines
Again case of we had good league, we lick our wounds we drive on all not lost etc
It's usual usual talk and if you look post match interview always same nonsense spoken but again no lesson ever ever learned this set up
Blames players we made mistakes
I'm sorry now but Brian look at gavin who took all self doubt away team loss donegal admitted he fault last year

He has to imo only hope is admit team he's faults try rebuild others wise team start questions themselves self doubt and let's be honest never had chance today

He said lessons were learned

Nine games in no improvement defence seriously if anyone thinks they learn mistakes imo there completely off the ball

This serous confidence hindrance this team
Gavin interview was awesome in he said win was good but huge work to be done and again great manager he is he has ability to see problems they have even in a win something this cork team hasn't done
Cuthbert didn't get relegated but its far successful league as few false dawns and lucky late wins as said in previous post and load problems still with this team

68deville

From an outsiders view,FB line in both codes at mo will not see Cork to semi stage

The_Kew_Tour

That was utter embarrassing today. Father and brother went to it and father said its the worst he ever saw.

It was so so poor. I turned it off myself after 45 minutes enough was enough.

thinkstoomuch1

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

That was utter embarrassing today. Father and brother went to it and father said its the worst he ever saw.

It was so so poor. I turned it off myself after 45 minutes enough was enough.

Worse than last year defeat to Dublin

thinkstoomuch1

Cu Baire wrote: »

Delighted for the Cork football players and management who have been abused and disrespected by so many keyboard "experts". In the toughest division 1 for years and a difficult draw they are deservedly top of the table with only 2 rounds to go.
It shows the calibre of some people posting on here that there is so little comment on yesterdays game but we would have pages of nonsense if they had lost.

What would be your views on the current football state of affairs and management now be please
Nonr what was spoken was nonsense imo posters had realistic concerns and didn't want days like today to happen again
League like last year was a false dawn
Some counties I understand belive in false dawns but cork football has to change its attuide
No body justify any critsom of cuthbert if not football related but on field play he performance deserves be judged as conor lehane said hurling even if emotions get hurt for on field critsom you shouldn't be involved

It's cody KK mantra and kerry the same the great great I mean really really really great countiess that win have

thinkstoomuch1

68deville wrote: »

From an outsiders view,FB line in both codes at mo will not see Cork to semi stage

Agreed totally however once crucial difference
The problems in football at full back are management fault and totally fixable but hurling be fair are not over injury and to be fair hurling with aidan Ryan getting game time they unlike the football are trying to solve the problems

thinkstoomuch1

Another huge huge point must be made cork didn't score from play for almost fifty minutes
Now we all know hurley and colm can score
Clear as day problems stem from midfield and half forward line but nailed on colm driscoll and gould start championship



Also I posted v Waterford in mcgrath cup cork failed score play bones hour and tipp for half and even with not same players as now problems was cork couldn't break down a blanket


League was false false dawn as Tyrone have problems in camp kerry donegal no interest

Dublin were half strenght in ist game

Donegal beat us and derry destroyed cork

Clear as day lot false dawns yet cork management say the league was very very good
There in is the problem they fail or simply refuse to accept huge problems team have and it's been not a good league on true reflection with so many issues still be solved in the team

thinkstoomuch1

http://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/dublin-v-cork-player-ratings-jack-mccaffrey-shines-brightest-on-blue-day-at-croker-31172869.html
Rating of cork players are accurate imo in most cases

D'Agger

Fintan Goold - Somewhat anonymous which is very unlike him but perhaps it typified his side's overall display

Somebody hasn't seen Fintan play too much I'd say

thinkstoomuch1

D'Agger wrote: »

QUOTE]Fintan Goold - Somewhat anonymous which is very unlike him but perhaps it typified his side's overall display

Somebody hasn't seen Fintan play too much I'd say[/quote]
You're right

Some of the punditry in gaa is absolutely dire imo as no one at times has either the ability or courage to be honest assessment some players


Gould was outplayed in big club intermediate final three year ago
A fine club player on he day and will give usual league man match display v non interested donegal kerry Tyrone last year but numerous big big big games can't perform

I have said this time and again and the same with driscolls and Hayes and unbelievably I had defend posts as nothing personal just on field play

Hopefully now it will be seen I have nothing against these lads all I do judge field play and cork have better options than these lads


Wait for the usual nonsense spoken now by some in not end of the world it's sport it happens take bad with good never got breaks, wait for the bull cork are in transition and young when doesn't hold up as Dublin in transition and kerry last year and donegal all evolved in eighteen months

Dublin conceded four -107 around in eight games now that's a defensive system

The greatest greatest myth existed was laughable view by many cork had blanket this year
No where near a blanket in its effectively


Cork needs ex pundits to have balls to say real issues now cork football but wait for it one or two usual suspects will blame players leadership etc and players be blamed

The post match interview huge huge concerns in shows lack denial how bad things are and saying it won't change preparing kerry is awful worry


Congrats to cork ladies football
All the same a real management makes he'll difference
Galway in they final
Galway are real test of cork and have no doubt will be real test cork next few years
There fine team well coached and I huge admiration for this up coming Galway ladies side


Monaghan meath Galway under Walsh could all imo beat cork senior mens football
Confidence shattered now afyee yesterday and no way can improve under this management clear they lack belive confidence in big big games
Irish times was correct today cork destroyed at midfield and offered nothing in blanket

Interesting to see how cork gaa media react to this

For the love of cork football hopefully we will have no cherry picking and look clear as day serious problems team


And hopefully they will be none this talk that going on bout midfield issues was nauseating in yes course would be as cork management ignored it eighteen months and failed solve it and anyone doubts leary or dinnen surely accept better midfield then cadogan gould and even be good subs as like said Thursday cork had no midfield subs

This defeat was always on cards and should not be seen as surprise
It shows next year you can ignore early rounds league games as no real tests teams

Cork are worse last year in only lost by seven then but now lost by more in a blanket

What next

He's called up ex players failed under Counihan, two were good past their best, plays lad out position he calls back selector mid season who is good yes he changes style and we get this


Interview with Tony leen he's well able talk talk and act like good manager I'll give him that
But he's talk is imo boring now as says one thing does the opposite

He said full back one few positions that you need natural full backs can't play others there yet he plays half backs corner backs even played clancy full

He says he delegates other roles others he's more on field role
There in lies the problem
He needs to do other roles imo and stay away coaching and picking team as serious as record shows he's way off the standards

Again he has no record at club level even and with Ballyclough year's ago couldn't even improve in junior championship back then

thinkstoomuch1

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/the-big-interview-brian-cuthbert-stirring-anbspnew-cork-cocktail-327055.html


It's hard to differentiate imo whether the kerry man was blowing up cuthbert or cuthbert talking this however cuthbert interviews hsve been on similar lines


Leen writes good stuff at times but way he was rating cork imo had no real logic in saying cork were new cocktail in making in nothing showed us that




Flangan I must say done wonderful job and don't blame him as he's nothing do tactics or selection
Always matter time that once Dublin teams matched fitness cork cork had nothing else to offer really

thinkstoomuch1

http://www.the42.ie/cork-jimmy-barry-murphy-conor-2070609-Apr2015/

Unfortunately Egan not involved but it's fair enough but shows how he finds it hard to get back top level and he's younger after missing league training compared to Alan o Connor who my fears are lack winter training will hinder him greatly
I think he won't be up to speed and unfair ask on him now once great player

Cork needs backs as jbm said
Jamie nagle should be called up

Barry is injured unfortunately
Stephen Murphy should be
Cork imo have hope with aidan Ryan and I'd start him Sunday
He needs a test
Start him at wing back then grows in game to full
It's a risk have to take as need cover for cahalane
If he works and cork beat Waterford in June you have safety playing in munster final with no pressure in loose your still there
He needs games badly

ancapallliath

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

http://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/dublin-v-cork-player-ratings-jack-mccaffrey-shines-brightest-on-blue-day-at-croker-31172869.html
Rating of cork players are accurate imo in most cases

I would argue that the ratings are very lenient.
in the circumstances Fintan Goold had an ok game by his standards

thinkstoomuch1

http://www.eveningecho.ie/sport/rebel-reality-check/

Very good read by o Donovan who is good writer


However I feel everything he said here is imo poor reflection on management and he stopped short again like many cork critse management for performance


Is it too much to ask that a manager simply cannot be judged on performance in honey moon is over and he's nearly year half or more in the job
All what said here is true but management got to be questioned as they pick the team and coach the system
Questions got to be asked what direction cork team heading in

thinkstoomuch1

ancapallliath wrote: »

I would argue that the ratings are very lenient.
in the circumstances Fintan Goold had an ok game by his standards

This is senior elite intercounty football at the highest level and I'm sorry if it sounds harsh but okay does not cut it

Does cody Fitzmauirce joel schmidt great great I mean really really really great jack o Connor and Morgan accept just okay
No they don't
Why should cork