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Marriage redefinition and Childrens rights

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Comments

  • #812
    terryduff12
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 505 ✭✭✭terryduff12


    if the bill gets passed! shouldn't that be the next step


  • #813
    osarusan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,861 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    osarusan wrote: »
    Can you link to that post please?

    Flem31, I am still waiting.

    I am sure that you will give me the link, polite and courteous as you are.


  • #814
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    terryduff12 wrote: »
    if the bill gets passed! shouldn't that be the next step

    Well homosexuality is already legal, so presumably its referred to already - this is only marriage that's being voted on (though this being said, I haven't a clue what they teach on sexuality in secondary schools of any type these days). The better informed may have an answer for ye.


  • #815
    Flem31
    Closed Accounts Posts: 341 ✭✭Flem31


    osarusan wrote: »
    Flem31, I am still waiting.

    I am sure that you will give me the link, polite and courteous as you are.

    There are legal restrictions on who is entitled to enter into to marriage that apply to all citizens regardless of their sex. The same basic criteria apply to everyone regardless of their sex, and then there is the one criteria that is discriminatory -


  • #816
    osarusan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,861 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    Flem31 wrote: »
    There are legal restrictions on who is entitled to enter into to marriage that apply to all citizens regardless of their sex. The same basic criteria apply to everyone regardless of their sex, and then there is the one criteria that is discriminatory -
    This was OneEyedJack's post:

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=95125021&postcount=720

    I am sure he will be happy to comment on how you have used his post to make the argument that the yes side believe that all issues of equality will be solved by this referendum, and that they are
    assuming that all possible redefinition ends on the 22nd May.


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  • #817
    Flem31
    Closed Accounts Posts: 341 ✭✭Flem31


    osarusan wrote: »
    This was OneEyedJack's post:

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=95125021&postcount=720

    I am sure he will be happy to comment on how you have used his post to make the argument that the yes side believe that all issues of equality will be solved by this referendum, and that they are

    OneEyedJack has responded to several of my posts yesterday
    Nice try at stirring it up


  • #818
    shruikan2553
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,113 ✭✭✭shruikan2553


    floggg wrote: »
    Pfft. Who are all those internationally recognised medical, psychiatry and social services groups compared to a daily mail link.

    He has a phd in the making

    "A study into how some children dont like their parents"
    As we see here some children dont like their parents. Probably because they're gay. [1]


    [1] dailymail.co.uk


  • #819
    indy_man
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 377 ✭✭indy_man


    Lend some weight to the minority

    http://keepmarriage.org/reasons-to-vote-no-irish-marriage-referendum.html


  • #820
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,555 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    indy_man wrote: »
    Lend some weight to the minority

    http://keepmarriage.org/reasons-to-vote-no-irish-marriage-referendum.html

    Already been posted and called out. Adds no weight to the No side as most of the points are ridiculous.


  • #821
    Bannasidhe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    indy_man wrote: »
    Lend some weight to the minority

    http://keepmarriage.org/reasons-to-vote-no-irish-marriage-referendum.html

    Instead of drive by link posting why don't you tell us in your own words?


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  • #822
    shruikan2553
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,113 ✭✭✭shruikan2553


    Im just thankful it's not a 35 minute long video.

    Its very vague on the details.


  • #823
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    indy_man wrote: »
    Lend some weight to the minority

    http://keepmarriage.org/reasons-to-vote-no-irish-marriage-referendum.html

    Being lent a ton of shite may not, in this instance, be doing anyone any favours.

    You post a link that includes a number of fallacious points, including the hilarious "Keep Ideology Out of Schools" that complains "Catholic schools will be expected to teach children about the right to same-sex marriage if the referendum passes."

    It also tries to conflate the issue of gay couples adopting with the referendum.


  • #824
    Flem31
    Closed Accounts Posts: 341 ✭✭Flem31


    This has been very educational over the past 24 hours re people's views.

    This upcoming referendum is about equality but perhaps it wont end at that.
    As we become more a la carte in our approach to life and to the laws and institutions that are there to guide us, this very individualistic approach will make us question more and more the very foundations on which we live our lives.
    I think that is a good thing as being ruled by restrict rules and how to act or behave hasn't done us any favours.


    Marriage will change with time, and how it will no one knows.
    I am open to the idea that it will change and as long as it doesn't do any harm then why not implement it.

    Perhaps in our quest to lead our lives the way we want, we miss the concept that although I may find something very disturbing, if enough people are in favour of it and who am I to stand in the way of progress. I am not referring to the current referendum re the repulsive comment but more so long overdue referendums that we may have in the coming years such as euthanasia and abortion.

    Over the past 24 hours I have thought a lot about the upcoming referendum and I will be voting yes.
    In that time, the numerous posts have convinced that as one large group of people, we are all equally broad minded or narrow minded depending on the issue. Posters when faced with a new piece such as marriage of blood relations automatically assumed the worst and incest etc was quickly used.
    Is that really any different from the no side when they refer to what they perceive to be the worst aspects of LGBT life.

    The yes side have restored my faith in humanity, being liberal depends on circumstances and if we have no prior experience on a topic, we are more likely to think the worst.

    I won't be posting again.
    I opened this account primarily to help with the decision making re this referendum and that is now done. Having seen some of the comments we make to each other on threads such as this and others, I am happy to close my account and leave the extreme attitudes and nastiness for someone else to look at.

    best of luck to the Yes side and I will be voting yes.
    This has been thought provoking and intriguing but wouldn't ever call it a fun.

    Goodbye


  • #825
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,705 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    Flem31 wrote: »
    OneEyedJack has responded to several of my posts yesterday
    Nice try at stirring it up


    Flem I decided there was no point in responding to your posts yesterday when you couldn't even give a straight answer to the question being asked of us in this referendum. You want to discuss issues that have nothing to do with civil marriage equality for all citizens regardless of their sex.

    The other criteria apply to all citizens regardless of their sex. Those criteria used are not discriminatory in the sense you're trying to make out, they are qualifying criteria in legislation that must be met by all couples who wish to enter into the marital contract.

    The only qualifying criteria in that sense which is discriminatory is that the two parties entering into the contract of marriage must be of the opposite sex.

    The marital contract itself is not being redefined. It is the qualifying criteria which are being redefined, to remove the one criteria that discriminates against couples on the basis that the two people who want to enter into the contract are the same sex.

    I'm not shutting down the discussion when I say that the other criteria you want to address are simply not relevant to this discussion, which is about giving all people the opportunity to enter into the marital contract. The exact wording you're being asked to vote on is this -


    "Marriage may be contracted in accordance with law by two persons without distinction as to their sex"


    That's it. That's all. That's what equality means in the context of the question you're being asked in this referendum. You have no right to point out what you see as the hypocrisy of other people for not wanting to stray from the discussion, when from their perspective - you are unwilling to stick to what's actually being discussed which is the question in the upcoming referendum.

    I'm not picking on you or getting at you and in fact I would only love to hear you discuss what's being asked of you, rather than listening to you sidestep the issue being discussed because you want to discuss something else and then complain when you're being asked as politely as possible to stay on topic.


  • #826
    fran17
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,262 ✭✭✭fran17


    PopePalpatine wrote: »
    Fran is using LifeSiteNews to support his views on LGBT people - I might as well use RT and other Kremlin-aligned bullsh*tters to form my opinion about Glorious Putin.

    No actually,I'm using first hand accounts from adults who have been raised in this abnormal situation.They are left to deal with the psychological damage,the byproduct of these experiments.If you can break away from your comic books and crayons for half an hour look it up.There's literally hundreds of stories out there.


  • #827
    shruikan2553
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,113 ✭✭✭shruikan2553


    fran17 wrote: »
    No actually,I'm using first hand accounts from adults who have been raised in this abnormal situation.They are left to deal with the psychological damage,the byproduct of these experiments.If you can break away from your comic books and crayons for half an hour look it up.There's literally hundreds of stories out there.

    Now fran, no need for the abuse. Care to comment on all of the organisations that say a same sex couple can raise a child just as well as an opposite sex couple? Care to comment how if the result is no same sex couples will be able to raise a child anyway? Or will you be disappearing for awhile to come back and give out more abuse?


  • #828
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,555 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    fran17 wrote: »
    No actually,I'm using first hand accounts from adults who have been raised in this abnormal situation.They are left to deal with the psychological damage,the byproduct of these experiments.If you can break away from your comic books and crayons for half an hour look it up.There's literally hundreds of stories out there.

    Wanna answer those questions you were asked?


  • #829
    Bannasidhe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    fran17 wrote: »
    No actually,I'm using first hand accounts from adults who have been raised in this abnormal situation.They are left to deal with the psychological damage,the byproduct of these experiments.If you can break away from your comic books and crayons for half an hour look it up.There's literally hundreds of stories out there.

    I am honestly so sick of hearing people describe MY family and MY son in these terms.

    It is hateful.
    It is hurtful.
    It is completely uncalled for.

    Nasty, judgmental, narrow minded, vitriol spouting ignoramuses who apparently are the very paragons of perfection in every aspect of their lives which allows them to insult and belittle others and feel this is 'debating' and acceptable.

    Yet these same people inevitable play the victim card and claim they are being oppressed and silenced.

    How very dare you!


  • #830
    TwoShedsJackson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,438 ✭✭✭TwoShedsJackson


    indy_man wrote: »
    Lend some weight to the minority

    http://keepmarriage.org/reasons-to-vote-no-irish-marriage-referendum.html

    Reason 5: Keep Ideology Out of Schools

    Honestly, I cannot comprehend the sheer hypocrisy or brass neck it takes for a Catholic group to list this as a reason to not do something.


  • #831
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,705 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    fran17 wrote: »
    No actually,I'm using first hand accounts from adults who have been raised in this abnormal situation.They are left to deal with the psychological damage,the byproduct of these experiments.If you can break away from your comic books and crayons for half an hour look it up.There's literally hundreds of stories out there.


    fran I have to ask respectfully, are you capable of objectivity?

    How many more first hand accounts do you need before you realise that while there are indeed hundreds of stories out there from adults who were raised in what you call abnormal situations (by virtue of the fact that their parents were of the same sex) who were left psychologically damaged from their childhood, there are billions, billions of stories out there from adults who were raised in two parent, opposite sex families, who were left psychologically damaged from their childhood, and to this day I meet adults who struggle to cope with the residual psychological and emotional damage inflicted upon them in childhood.

    If you can break outside your own perspective for 30 seconds, you might hear what people are trying to tell you, instead of shutting people out that don't fit with your world view. Pretending the outside world doesn't exist fran is never a good idea, and it sure as hell with all due respect isn't very healthy.


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  • #832
    B_Wayne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,039 ✭✭✭B_Wayne


    fran17 wrote: »
    No actually,I'm using first hand accounts from adults who have been raised in this abnormal situation.They are left to deal with the psychological damage,the byproduct of these experiments.If you can break away from your comic books and crayons for half an hour look it up.There's literally hundreds of stories out there.

    Jump back a few pages and address my response to your post. It includes support from ISPCC with a far better argument than yours . They have the rights of children at forefront of your work. You're depending on a rather small group of children who weren't happy. You will find this in all walks of life. This does not disprove the research in the slightest. Posters on this very site have been raised by gay parents, admittedly still anecdotal. That's why we use research that backs up that there's little difference. You are letting your bigotry dictate your view,this has included conflating it with abuse in the past although you'll deny it even when evidence of you doing so is posted.


  • #833
    Pherekydes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,249 ✭✭✭✭Pherekydes


    Flem31 wrote: »
    best of luck to the Yes side and I will be voting yes.

    Goodbye

    Hope this is true. Good luck and come on back when we get around to repealing the 8th.


  • #834
    floggg
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,821 ✭✭✭floggg


    fran17 wrote: »
    No actually,I'm using first hand accounts from adults who have been raised in this abnormal situation.They are left to deal with the psychological damage,the byproduct of these experiments.If you can break away from your comic books and crayons for half an hour look it up.There's literally hundreds of stories out there.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fritzl_case

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/child-victims-from-house-of-horrors-begin-legal-action-26722404.html

    I'm using first hand accounts from adults who have been raised in the abnormal situation of heterosexual parents.They are left to deal with the psychological damage,the byproduct of these experiments.If you can break away from your comic books and crayons for half an hour look it up.There's literally thousands of stories out there.

    Ban straight parenting now!!!*



    *what you mean the referendum has nothing to do with parenting?


  • #835
    floggg
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,821 ✭✭✭floggg


    fran17 wrote: »
    No actually,I'm using first hand accounts from adults who have been raised in this abnormal situation.They are left to deal with the psychological damage,the byproduct of these experiments.If you can break away from your comic books and crayons for half an hour look it up.There's literally hundreds of stories out there.

    You know that running away for a few hours doesn't make us forget your inability to answer even basic questions on the content of your posts?

    I does show us all that you are talking out of your ass though.


  • #836
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,190 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    fran17 wrote: »
    No actually,I'm using first hand accounts from adults who have been raised in this abnormal situation.They are left to deal with the psychological damage,the byproduct of these experiments.If you can break away from your comic books and crayons for half an hour look it up.There's literally hundreds of stories out there.
    You could compile a list of literally hundreds of millions of first-hand accounts of rape, mutilation and torture of children at the hands of their heterosexual parents.

    I guess by your logic, that proves that heterosexual relationships are inherently bad for children.

    Sadly, there are a lot of parents out there who should never be parents, and this is true regardless of sexuality.


  • #837
    floggg
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,821 ✭✭✭floggg


    Flem31 wrote: »
    This has been very educational over the past 24 hours re people's views.

    This upcoming referendum is about equality but perhaps it wont end at that.
    As we become more a la carte in our approach to life and to the laws and institutions that are there to guide us, this very individualistic approach will make us question more and more the very foundations on which we live our lives.
    I think that is a good thing as being ruled by restrict rules and how to act or behave hasn't done us any favours.


    Marriage will change with time, and how it will no one knows.
    I am open to the idea that it will change and as long as it doesn't do any harm then why not implement it.

    Perhaps in our quest to lead our lives the way we want, we miss the concept that although I may find something very disturbing, if enough people are in favour of it and who am I to stand in the way of progress. I am not referring to the current referendum re the repulsive comment but more so long overdue referendums that we may have in the coming years such as euthanasia and abortion.

    Over the past 24 hours I have thought a lot about the upcoming referendum and I will be voting yes.
    In that time, the numerous posts have convinced that as one large group of people, we are all equally broad minded or narrow minded depending on the issue. Posters when faced with a new piece such as marriage of blood relations automatically assumed the worst and incest etc was quickly used.
    Is that really any different from the no side when they refer to what they perceive to be the worst aspects of LGBT life.

    The yes side have restored my faith in humanity, being liberal depends on circumstances and if we have no prior experience on a topic, we are more likely to think the worst.

    I won't be posting again.
    I opened this account primarily to help with the decision making re this referendum and that is now done. Having seen some of the comments we make to each other on threads such as this and others, I am happy to close my account and leave the extreme attitudes and nastiness for someone else to look at.

    best of luck to the Yes side and I will be voting yes.
    This has been thought provoking and intriguing but wouldn't ever call it a fun.

    Goodbye

    You haven't witnessed any close mindedness.

    The only thing that happened is that people pointed out gaping flaws in your argument, and rather than addressing the criticisms, you just reformulated your original assertion or shifted the sands, but the original flaws remained.


  • #838
    shruikan2553
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,113 ✭✭✭shruikan2553


    Better restart the countdown for his return.


  • #839
    Kiwi in IE
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,063 ✭✭✭Kiwi in IE


    TwoShedsJackson wrote: »
    Reason 5: Keep Ideology Out of Schools

    Honestly, I cannot comprehend the sheer hypocrisy or brass neck it takes for a Catholic group to list this as a reason to not do something.

    This completely astounds me! Any Catholic group or representative in this country using that as an argument against equal marriage is the very definition of ignorance. This group are clearly so culturally unaware that they actually have no concept of the privilege society currently bestows on their religion.


  • #840
    Bridge93
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,018 ✭✭✭Bridge93


    Interesting to note which poster YET AGAIN has disappeared when asked to back up their rubbish posts and insulting comments. Then again does anyone expect any different from them?


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  • #841
    S.O
    Closed Accounts Posts: 397 ✭✭S.O


    Views from others raised in same sex households.

    A woman raised by two mothers has admitted the experience was "damaging and confusing," and has warned of the potential for "irreparable, long-term damage to a child."


    Hetty Baynes Russell, 58, said her unconventional parental setup fostered "a
    life of confusion and a lack of emotional security,"

    http://www.charismanews.com/culture/49185-being-raised-by-2-mothers-ruined-my-life

    Jean-Dominique Bunel, opposes the bill opening adoption to homosexual
    couples. He has decided to break the silence to tell how his life was affected
    by the fact of having two mothers.

    https://www.familyfirst.org.nz/2013/01/i-was-brought-up-by-two-women/

    Charles Mitchell and two brothers were adopted as infants by two men. He
    called same-sex adoption “a tragic social experiment” and said, “homosexuality destroyed a normal way of life for us.”


    Often, the homosexual parents shown in the media are straight-laced,
    responsible men. Mitchell said that his “dad” and “uncle” weren’t unlike that.
    But “it’s not just the two people involved; it’s the environment.”

    http://www.bettnet.com/the_real_cost_of_gay_adoption/


    After my parents’ separation, my sister and I began spending every other
    weekend with my father in the city. He shared a condo with a man who had also left his wife and children. The man’s two daughters seemed to have adjusted to the situation. It was as if everything was "normal." But I felt anything but normal. It was as if I had fallen asleep and woken up in a bizarre alternate reality. At the end of the day, my father would not walk into the bedroom with my mom, like he had done only weeks before. Instead, he headed off to bed with a man I had met only days before.

    http://www.pureintimacy.org/m/my-father%E2%80%99s-closet/

    As I read about these cases the stronger my resolve grows that voting no is the right thing to do, if I don,t listen to those voices who have experienced same sex households who do I listen to ?


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