Trinity college educated surgeon encourages trainee clinicians to accept sex offers

steddyeddy · 08-03-2015 04:58PM #1

Gabrielle, a top surgeon who was educated in Trinity thinks that women who are approached by men making sexual advances would do better to accept the offer lest they hurt their career. I know there are politics involved in rising through the ranks in medicine but I hope it doesn't extend as far as this. Does she really think clinicians should become glorified hookers for the sake of their career.

An Irish-educated surgeon has rejected criticism over comments she made saying surgical trainees should stay silent if they’re sexually assaulted by a colleague.

Dr Gabrielle McMullin, a Sydney-based vascular surgeon, said on ABC radio that sexism is commonplace among Australian surgeons and that young woman should accept unwanted sexual advances because coming forward could ruin their career.

Speaking while launching the book Pathways to Gender Equality - The Role of Merit and Quotas, which she co-authored, Dr McMullin referred to a woman called Caroline, who took a case against a surgeon accused of sexually assaulting her while she completed neurosurgical training at a Melbourne hospital.

Though she won the case, Caroline was subsequently unable to get work at any public hospital in Australia or New Zealand.
“Her career was ruined by this one guy asking for sex on this night. And, realistically, she would have been much better to have given him a blow job on that night,” Dr McMullin said.

Article link: http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/asia-pacific/trainees-should-accept-sexual-advances-says-tcd-educated-surgeon-1.2130969

seriouslyfunny · 08-03-2015 05:08PM

is she actually a woman? wtf!

oppenheimer1 · 08-03-2015 05:12PM

What does her education from TCD have to do with anything?

Baby Jane · 08-03-2015 05:13PM

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

What does her education from TCD have to do with anything?

Bringing in a local angle I suppose.

conorh91 · 08-03-2015 05:17PM

I disagree with her approach obviously, but she isn't "encouraging" sexual abuse. She's being honest with her trainees

“What I tell my trainees is that, if you are approached for sex, probably the safest thing to do in terms of your career is to comply with the request; the worst thing you can possibly do is to complain to the supervising body because then, as in Caroline’s position, you can be sure that you will never be appointed to a major public hospital.”

Obviously it's a foolish approach to take because it risks perpetuating sexual harassment/ abuse; but it's not like she's going out there and giving sexual abuse the thumbs-up, or that she thinks it's perfectly fine.

steddyeddy · 08-03-2015 05:23PM

conorh91 wrote: »

I disagree with her approach obviously, but she isn't "encouraging" sexual abuse. She's being honest with her trainees
“What I tell my trainees is that, if you are approached for sex, probably the safest thing to do in terms of your career is to comply with the request; the worst thing you can possibly do is to complain to the supervising body because then, as in Caroline’s position, you can be sure that you will never be appointed to a major public hospital.”
Obviously it's a foolish approach to take because it risks perpetuating sexual harassment/ abuse; but it's not like she's going out there and giving sexual abuse the thumbs-up, or that she thinks it's perfectly fine.

All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good people to do nothing. She is in a position of power and instead of making any efforts to change the system she is recommending people to go along with it. It's disgusting IMHO.

humbert · 08-03-2015 05:55PM

Doctors can be dumbasses too shocker.

Also, having Googled her I suspect she has limited first hand experience of the problem.

Hey Hey My My · 08-03-2015 05:59PM

Quite common in some professions sadly, a friend of my performed a sex act when she was younger on a director of a play so she would get a part, telling him that she was on her period when she wasnt so she wouldnt have to do anymore.

Really sad

steddyeddy · 08-03-2015 06:02PM

Hey Hey My My wrote: »

Quite common in some professions sadly, a friend of my performed a sex act when she was younger on a director of a play so she would get a part, telling him that she was on her period when she wasnt so she wouldnt have to do anymore.

Really sad

I really hope you're exaggerating when you say it's common!

G_R · 08-03-2015 06:02PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

Gabrielle, a top surgeon who was educated in Trinity thinks that women who are approached by men making sexual advances would do better to accept the offer lest they hurt their career. I know there are politics involved in rising through the ranks in medicine but I hope it doesn't extend as far as this. Does she really think clinicians should become glorified hookers for the sake of their career.

Article link: http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/asia-pacific/trainees-should-accept-sexual-advances-says-tcd-educated-surgeon-1.2130969

Mod
OP - you're here long enough now to know that you can't just copy and paste an article from a news site and post it. You need to give a link, and have 2/3 paragraphs max - otherwise we start to fall foul of copyright law.

Hey Hey My My · 08-03-2015 06:03PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

I really hope you're exaggerating when you say it's common!

According to my friend, it was very common among acting, I told her not to do it as it amounted to prostitution. But again she seemed to accept it as it was according to her rife.

steddyeddy · 08-03-2015 06:04PM

Grand_Rajnah wrote: »

Mod
OP - you're here long enough now to know that you can't just copy and paste an article from a news site and post it. You need to give a link, and have 2/3 paragraphs max - otherwise we start to fall foul of copyright law.

OK sorry Grand. I wasn't aware of the rule. I'll be aware in future.

The Diabolical Monocle · 08-03-2015 06:10PM

Shock tactic for attention.

If she had complained it would have got lost in the sea of females complaining.

My name is URL · 08-03-2015 06:14PM

Sounds more like she was making a point about the sad reality of it all rather than trying to genuinely encourage it.

humbert · 08-03-2015 06:26PM

mikemac1 wrote: »

You were googling some Professor who retired.

The doctor here is in the link for New Zealand in post 1

Why do you think I'm referring to "Caroline"??

Precious flower · 08-03-2015 06:30PM

I kind of felt like if she was trying to make a point that she would have added about how horrible and unacceptable that was instead of just saying your best option is doing what they want and staying quiet. She says nothing abut addressing this kind of abhorrent practice. I find it really hard to believe to that that women she referred to couldn't get a job in Australia or New Zealand after she reported the abuse! That's insane!

steddyeddy · 08-03-2015 06:34PM

Precious flower wrote: »

I kind of felt like if she was trying to make a point that she would have added about how horrible and unacceptable that was instead of just saying your best option is doing what they want and staying quiet. She says nothing abut addressing this kind of abhorrent practice. I find it really hard to believe to that that women she referred to couldn't get a job in Australia or New Zealand after she reported the abuse! That's insane!

Yes I find it hard to accept that she was condemning the practice. She was basically saying "your best bet is to go along with it or face the consequences".

volchitsa · 08-03-2015 06:44PM

Precious flower wrote: »

I kind of felt like if she was trying to make a point that she would have added about how horrible and unacceptable that was instead of just saying your best option is doing what they want and staying quiet. She says nothing abut addressing this kind of abhorrent practice. I find it really hard to believe to that that women she referred to couldn't get a job in Australia or New Zealand after she reported the abuse! That's insane!

And have you heard the whole interview, or are you reaching that conclusion solely from the "shock! horror!" extracts that have been published?

Only it seems to me that she may have been just trying a different approach - if she joined the chorus of people condemning sexual exploitation of young women by more senior males in just about any profession (casting couch, anyone?) would her words have been quoted by anyone - except possibly as yet another example of a woman whinging about something?

So instead she gets blamed for telling it as it is. Damned if she does and damned if she doesn't, afaict.

(And what was that bizarre comment from someone just now about googling her and feeling it wasn't an issue she would have experienced herself? Talk about inadvertently proving her point!:mad:)

steddyeddy · 08-03-2015 06:48PM

volchitsa wrote: »

And have you heard the whole interview, or are you reaching that conclusion solely from the "shock! horror!" extracts that have been published?

Only it seems to me that she may have been just trying a different approach - if she joined the chorus of people condemning sexual exploitation of young women by more senior males in just about any profession (casting couch, anyone?) would her words have been quoted by anyone - except possibly as yet another example of a woman whinging about something?

So instead she gets blamed for telling it as it is. Damned if she does and damned if she doesn't, afaict.

(And what was that bizarre comment from someone just now about googling her and feeling it wasn't an issue she would have experienced herself? Talk about inadvertently proving her point!:mad:)

So you think the best way for her to change things was to tell her trainees that the best thing they could do is accept sexual harassment? Surely a better idea would be to tell her trainees to report sexual harassment in the workplace?

The Rape of Lucretia · 08-03-2015 06:50PM

She has a point. The voice of experience though, so not sure that her young charges will learn the lesson before they have made the mistake themselves and its too late to recover their careers.

diograis · 08-03-2015 06:50PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

So you think the best way for her to change things was to tell her trainees that the best thing they could do is accept sexual harassment? Surely a better idea would be to tell her trainees to report sexual harassment in the workplace?

her point was reporting sexual harassment is ineffective and even counterproductive, did you even read the link?

volchitsa · 08-03-2015 06:52PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

So you think the best way for her to change things was to tell her trainees that the best thing they could do is accept sexual harassment? Surely a better idea would be to tell her trainees to report sexual harassment in the workplace?

Do you know that she didn't mention the existence of that possibility at all?
I understand her comment to be about the real risks to the career of any woman taking such a step.

So do you mean that she should have lied to them and told them they could take such a step without their career suffering, knowing that wasn't the case?

Or that she should have told them the truth - but been less forthcoming about it in public?

conorh91 · 08-03-2015 06:53PM

Precious flower wrote: »

I kind of felt like if she was trying to make a point that she would have added about how horrible and unacceptable that was

Maybe she did.

Generally the most sensationalist aspect of a person's comments will get reported, and the more agreeable aspects just get passed over, because we all agree that sexual abuse is bad, and that isn't news.

gozunda · 08-03-2015 06:58PM

She is probably correct about reporting the badtards who would try this type of behaviour as in they will be still be badtards when a trainees tries to reports it. What I would suggest is a good ol knee in the nuts and then bring in the biggest ugliest MF and introduce him as the boyfriend who clearly informs him that if the wee ****e tries anything again he will find himself in serious trouble ...

volchitsa · 08-03-2015 07:02PM

gozunda wrote: »

She is probably correct about reporting the badtards who would try this type of behaviour as in they will be still be badtards when a trainees tries to reports it. What I would suggest is a good ol knee in the nuts and then bring in the biggest ugliest MF and introduce him as the boyfriend who clearly informs him that if the wee ****e tries anything again he will find himself in serious trouble ...

A sure way to get on the fast-track for promotion, that. :rolleyes:

KomradeBishop · 08-03-2015 07:08PM

Pretty much the same attitude that allowed Jimmy Saville to abuse and rape kids on a routine basis, in a UK hospital.

volchitsa · 08-03-2015 07:14PM

KomradeBishop wrote: »

Pretty much the same attitude that allowed Jimmy Saville to abuse and rape kids on a routine basis, in a UK hospital.

Seriously? The kids had something to gain from not telling anyone then? Better healthcare for example? FFS.

Apart from the fact that they were, you know, kids - and therefore not normally having sex otherwise. That's a really unhealthy amalgam to make. Imo.)

steddyeddy · 08-03-2015 07:14PM

KomradeBishop wrote: »

Pretty much the same attitude that allowed Jimmy Saville to abuse and rape kids on a routine basis, in a UK hospital.

Exactly my view on this. They were often told don't speak up or you won't be believed.

Golaco · 08-03-2015 07:16PM

KomradeBishop wrote: »

Pretty much the same attitude that allowed Jimmy Saville to abuse and rape kids on a routine basis, in a UK hospital.

Um not quite. This woman is advocating keeping quiet or going along with it in order to further their careers

Don't think the witnesses or victims who didn't speak up in Saville's case had this in mind...

darkpagandeath · 08-03-2015 07:17PM

I this a script for a Porn film ? How much do you want the job, Bow chiccka wowow

Baby Jane · 08-03-2015 07:17PM

I think she's right to have spelled out the reality - no point in sugarcoating it. I don't know that people are taking issue with this. What's being criticised is the way it comes across as if her view is "That's just the way it is, meh, nothing you can do about it" rather than attempting to tackle and de-normalise it.

The Diabolical Monocle wrote: »

Shock tactic for attention.

If she had complained it would have got lost in the sea of females complaining.

If who had complained?

volchitsa wrote: »

(And what was that bizarre comment from someone just now about googling her and feeling it wasn't an issue she would have experienced herself?

Yeh I noticed that - very weird comment. "Who would sexually harass her? She's not hot" is what it seems to have meant. Only the "temptresses" get sexually harassed; never happens to the non beauties.

Trinity college educated surgeon encourages trainee clinicians to accept sex offers

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